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HikaruBG

Yet, another evidence that you guys do not belive in your own definitions.

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Sally
4 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

Please, tell me, how did asexuality go from "I don't want to have sex with anyone or *anything for my personal gratification, regardless of my libido or how attractive I find them to be or my relationship with them or whatever" to literally mean anything (including hypersexuality) but that? How???? No, I'm genuinely asking here. HOW???????????

 

Asexuality hasn't changed.  However, AVEN's rule is that we cannot tell anyone else what their orientation is or is not.   We can, however, note that our (meaning the poster, not AVEN or the whole world) understanding is that asexuality is xyz, without stating or implying that the other poster is wrong in how they have defined themselves.  It's a fine line to walk, but it can be walked.    

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HikaruBG
4 minutes ago, Sally said:

Asexuality hasn't changed.  However, AVEN's rule is that we cannot tell anyone else what their orientation is or is not.   We can, however, note that our (meaning the poster, not AVEN or the whole world) understanding is that asexuality is xyz, without stating or implying that the other poster is wrong in how they have defined themselves.  It's a fine line to walk, but it can be walked.    

Yes, I know. But I'm not talking about AVEN but about cases that happens outside of AVEN. I'm far more knowledgeable on what's happening outside of AVEN as opposed of here, because I only recently became more engaged with the AVEN's forums.

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elisabeth_II
18 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

Yes, I know. But I'm not talking about AVEN but about cases that happens outside of AVEN.

Then I don't understand.... From your opening post (I'm not reading through 107 comments on reddit though), you say that AVEN is contributing to misunderstanding. The screenshot on reddit was someone posting contextless parts of an AVEN-thread. If people on troll forums want to make fun of serious stuff, what can we do about that except not take part in it and try to prevent our kids to start hanging on those forums?

 

The screenshot contains the term 'ace'. Is it, that using 'ace' as an umbrella term makes people think that 'asexual' also is a good umbrella term? Taking into account that quite a few asexuals here have stated clearly that they whish for a stricter use of the term 'asexual', I guess that the term 'ace' being granted the status of a 'lable' leads to confusion. If we see it as an abbreviation of the lable 'asexual', it should not be stated that 'aces' can seek out and desire sex for pleasure, that sounds clearly contradictional to me. If we see the term 'ace' as an umbrella-reference to people of all kinds of lables that mean that they don't feel that they live up to the social norm about sexuality in their own context, then it is not very eloquent to talk about 'being ace', I'd rather talk about 'belonging on the ace-spectra' or so. Depending on the context it can be totally idiomatically correct to phrase it as 'being ace'. But that means we are risking confusion, so, I agree that another term should be used for the spectra-phenomenon.

 

29 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

The reasons why it is inaccurate is because even if you consider 2 to be part of asexuality (the whole Asexual Spectrum).

Have you noticed that I consistently write 'grey - SEXUAL',  not 'grey-Asexual'? I clearly consider greys to be on a sexual spectrum.

 

How can I understand what this means: 'because even if you consider'. Then what? Or did you mean to write 'because even YOU consider', or 'is inaccurate if you consider'? I find rephrasing and repeating _very_ useful.

 

29 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

No, I have seen accounts of people using it, despite knowing what it means, not to mention that the were also projecting their feelings onto others who identify as asexual.

I still can't see how anyone can use this reassurement:

"You can feel asexual and desire sex anyway."

for doing toxic stuff without there being a whole lot of other toxic factors involved.

 

As a grey-sexual person, I can give you this view of mine:

 

Background:

My ex partner wanted sex, it doesn't matter with what frequency, he wanted it.

I did not feel sexually attracteed to him ever during eight and a half years.

He was constantly trying to make me feel comfortable having sex with him.

I hated it.

 

Alternative 1:

We both know nothing about the existence of asexuality.

He thinks that every normal person would feel comfortable and enjoy having sex with their partner if only he does it the right way or courts her in some way.

She thinks the same way and blames herself for having some kind of defect or being too picky or whatever.

The relationship fails, anyway.

 

Alternative 2:

She claims to be asexual.

He thinks that means that she will eventually desire sex when they have been close enough for a long time.

a) She knows about asexuality and tells him: no that's not gonna happen.

b) She also thinks she will eventually enjoy it, so she will eventually blame herself for having some kind of defect or being to picky or whatever.

 

in both 1, 2a and 2b, it is equally repellant if he goes on and urges her to have sex. Whether he urges her with

- 'You are defect', or with

- 'you are asexual, so you should want sex eventually, so you are defect since you still don't', or with

- 'you yourself say that you should want sex eventually, so you are defect', or with plain

- 'you will never enjoy sex, but you should give it to me anyway'

 

It doesn't matter. The toxicness of the situation is not related to the definition of asexuality. The toxicness here is related to someone not respecting the other ones integrity, it's related to someone being an asshole. If they wouldn't be an asshole using asexuality for it, they could use any other aspect of life for it.

 

I can't see the connection between people behaving in a problematic way with the understadning of asexuality.

 

Milk again: say you have a desease that is cured by some medicine that needs to be taken with a glass of milk. You don't like milk, but your doctor can urge you to drink it anyway, for your own good. If you are lactose intolerant however, your doctor might try to look for an alternative. Or your friend has been betting money on getting you to drink that milk. He might urge you to do it, although you don't like milk (it wouldn't be okay if he forced you, obviously, but nagging a bit is not dishonorable); if you are lactose intolerant however, your friend will lose the bet, it would be dishonorable for him to urge you to drink it anyway.

 

With sex, it is _not the same thing at all_. It is not true that asexuals' preference not to have sex should be respected in any better way, than sexuals' preference not to have sex. That's why I don't understand where you're getting at, when you indicate that mistaking asexuality can lead to people thinking that someone should have sex anyway. Then it's clearly not (only) asexuality they have misunderstood, but the whole human right of physical integrity.

 

29 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

Either way, this doesn't excuse the cheating.

Well, that puts the matter on the 'pedo-, zoo-, psycho-, asshole-argument' then. If an asexual has a partner who claims to be asexual, it is no guarantee that they is true to them. Whether they cheat with sex or by other means (like spending more time on their hidden relationship, giving too little attention and care to their real partner) is not really relevant, they that cheat are 'assholes' and they that get cheated on are the victims.

 

 

29 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

 

I don't blame them either because this awfully reminds me of the people telling me "wait until you get older and you will see that you will want it as well"... as if it doesn't matter what are my feelings in the present or how everyone around my age were talking how they wanted to have sex and with who in the future.

Did these people make you feel that your 'lack of interest in sex' could be something awkward, and the term 'asexual' is a reassurance for you and other asexuals that it is absolutely okay, but the misuse of the term, the inclusion of grey-sexuals in the term is making you and/or other asexuals feel once again that the 'complete lack of interest in sex ever' is something awkward? Is this, what it's about? Feeling that 'innate' asexuals once again are the abnormity, the ones that fall out of the scale that is said to be the asexual spectrum?

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HikaruBG
Quote

Then I don't understand.... From your opening post (I'm not reading through 107 comments on reddit though), you say that AVEN is contributing to misunderstanding. The screenshot on reddit was someone posting contextless parts of an AVEN-thread. If people on troll forums want to make fun of serious stuff, what can we do about that except not take part in it and try to prevent our kids to start hanging on those forums?

 

I have already answered to this with what's the point of my thread. Just because the screenshot seems context-less, this doesn't mean that it didn't contribute to the misinformation that is going on around, nor does it means that just because one person on AVEN said this, there aren't others here who doesn't agree with that assertion.

It is that all of it was hidden within the confines of AVEN forums (which is an issue that I think AVEN would have fixed with time and if people actually listened to what their opponents during the debates) up until now. Outsiders have complete lack of awareness of what's going on here... which is ironic considering that many people rely on AVEN to educate people on Asexuality when the people at AVEN have no clear stance on what Asexuality even is. I know that because I spend ages lurking around.

 

Quote

If we see it as an abbreviation of the lable 'asexual', it should not be stated that 'aces' can seek out and desire sex for pleasure, that sounds clearly contradictional to me. If we see the term 'ace' as an umbrella-reference to people of all kinds of lables that mean that they don't feel that they live up to the social norm about sexuality in their own context, then it is not very eloquent to talk about 'being ace', I'd rather talk about 'belonging on the ace-spectra' or so. Depending on the context it can be totally idiomatically correct to phrase it as 'being ace'. But that means we are risking confusion, so, I agree that another term should be used for the spectra-phenomenon.

... There are literally comments 2 pages ago that were talking about exactly that - using the term "ace" (or "asexual" because they didn't use the twrm "ace") as an umbrella that encompasses all kinds of identities that don't live up to the social norm of sexuality and then, introducing data based on that.

 

Quote

Have you noticed that I consistently write 'grey - SEXUAL',  not 'grey-Asexual'? I clearly consider greys to be on a sexual spectrum.

I see no difference between these terms. All they are supposed to mean is that some people desire sex for personal gratification rarely (or in your words, frequency that is less than the perceived as "normal frequency") or under specific circumstances (a.i. desires sex when exposed to kinks or fetishes).


 

13 hours ago, elisabeth_II said:

Did these people make you feel that your 'lack of interest in sex' could be something awkward, and the term 'asexual' is a reassurance for you and other asexuals that it is absolutely okay, but the misuse of the term, the inclusion of grey-sexuals in the term is making you and/or other asexuals feel once again that the 'complete lack of interest in sex ever' is something awkward? Is this, what it's about? Feeling that 'innate' asexuals once again are the abnormity, the ones that fall out of the scale that is said to be the asexual spectrum?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: I choose the word because I think it best describes my feelings up until now. And trust me, I took my sweet time (almost a decade), struggles and whatnot with that choice. Many people will not believe, consider this a lie, awkward, abnormal, impossible and they will always do, regardless of what I tell them but that's not my problem.

Yes, things may or may not change in the future.... I don't have precognition so I don't know. This is why I prefer to stick with what are my feelings in the present rather than wondering what the future has in store for me.


Look, if you want to ask me personal questions or whatever, you are better off to PM me.

If you want to ask your questions about sexuality, your "what-if" scenarios or alternatives, or whatever, you are off better of to make your own threads where plenty of people, who understand sexuality better than me, can answer you.

The current thread is not for that (since, you know, it's in the "Site Comments" sub-forum) so please, let it die. I pretty sure that what you are doing here is derailing the thread and I don't want that. I'd rather the thread to die than going nowhere, with only 2 people being active.

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HikaruBG

I have a request towards the Mods to lock this thread. Please.

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elisabeth_II

It's okay, I respect you, you want to let it die.

 

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Janus DarkFox
15 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

That's irreverent because the "ace" cheated multiple times, not once. If it was just once, then yeah, I think that it should have been a big "Oh shit" moment for them to figure out that they Gray-A and went to their partner to tell them... but it seems like that they were afraid of getting exposed by their partner for cheating so they hid the information away?

At that point, once it becomes clear there’s been regular cheating, multiple, sexual activity cheating with multiple people... To me that person is using the term Asexual dishonestly to cover up cheating then that they are Ace to me.  Somewhere there’s a tipping point between just pleasure seeking cheating and giving into sexual attraction and desires cheating.

 

Possible exception are in cases with Sex Addiction, that can transcend pleasure seeking and sexual desires regardless of Sexual Orientation to me.

 

Aces can cheat on a partner in non-sexual ways of course.

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Janus DarkFox
12 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

I have a request towards the Mods to lock this thread. Please.

I’ve messaged Mods for this request more directly :)

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MichaelTannock

I've locked this thread as requested by the OP.
 
Michael Tannock,
Open Mic moderator and Questions about Asexuality Co-moderator.

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