Sexual jealousy; trying to understand

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Whore*of*Mensa said:

@Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) He’s not biologically my daughter’s father but she thinks of him as her Dad.

 

I left him over 5 years ago and only got back in touch recently because I thought it’d be helpful to come out to him as asexual.

 

🙄 ah well we live and learn I guess, hopefully we’ll all get out of this in one piece!

 

i feel really stupid about this now but I’d just forgotten that he can’t listen to reason. I forgot about a lot of things.

 

@ryn2 they’re not compromising no, just me apparently looking ‘beautiful’. I’m not sure he’s even noticed I’ve put on 3 stone and have whiskers on my chin nowadays 😂 he’s not living in reality.

 

Thank you for the support.

To be honest a lot of what you said actually scares me, sounds a lot like my ex and my mum's most recent ex too. That level of delusion can be very, very dangerous (as he's pretty much blaming you for everything in his mind, and believing that you're pretty much manipulating him and stuff) and yeah it will get worse the more you feed it by maintaining contact. :c

[Whore*of*Mensa]

19 hours ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

To be honest a lot of what you said actually scares me, sounds a lot like my ex and my mum's most recent ex too. That level of delusion can be very, very dangerous (as he's pretty much blaming you for everything in his mind, and believing that you're pretty much manipulating him and stuff) and yeah it will get worse the more you feed it by maintaining contact. :c

I think he cares too much about what other people think to do anything physical, it’s just the psychological stuff. Just trying not to feel responsible for it all and not feel sorry for him.

 

Sometimes I’d love to emigrate! 🙂

[ryn2]

You can feel sorry for him for having mental health issues and also block him and not get involved; don’t have to pick one or the other.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

I've successful ignored a text for over 24 hours now, this is helping with my guilt so much. 

[ryn2]

9 minutes ago, Whore*of*Mensa said:

I've successful ignored a text for over 24 hours now, this is helping with my guilt so much. 

Good for you!!  

[Whore*of*Mensa]

@Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) Just wanted to thank you for putting into words that it’s dangerous as well, when in that relationship I did have a very strong gut feeling that I was going to end up dead if I didn’t get out at some point. It wasn’t a rational thing that I could explain to anyone (actually most people couldn’t understand why I, a scumbag single mum, would leave such a fine upstanding man as him. I think my mum is still upset about it!) So you saying this makes me feel validated!

[ryn2]

Always trust your gut on things like that.  Sure, you may be wrong, but price of not listening to yourself is too high.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

I think I'm doing well at being a 'grey rock'  I need to do this as a general tactic in life. 

[ryn2]

Glad things have settled down!

[Whore*of*Mensa]

It was his birthday, I wished him Happy Birthday, he....got caught up in wanting...I said I don't want that. He seemed to accept it. He said we could be friends, asked me how I was. I had a job interview. He wished me luck. I got nervous on the day, I nearly didn't go, I texted him, I don't wanna go...He built me up, saying 'you deserve this, you are capable, you have great experience, you don't need them, they need you..have CONFIDENCE. You own this!' How does he know me so well?? I went, and I got offered the job. 

 

Now I owe him one. He helped me. If I maybe send him a bottle of wine does that exonerate me from owing him sex? I know how his mind works... I'm so stupid. It's just that I need a friend sometimes. And he knows me very well. 

[Whore*of*Mensa]

I could give him support in return?  He was a good friend, it's just that someone who can build you up can also knock you down, which he also could do but only by agreeing when I put myself down. Is it wrong to get confidence from other people? Maybe he wasn't doing me a favour by liking me? Maybe I am likeable? I just don't know, maybe he was just reflecting me back at myself. And me reflecting him back at himself, and he did not like it. 

[SusannaC]

13 hours ago, Whore*of*Mensa said:

Now I owe him one. He helped me. If I maybe send him a bottle of wine does that exonerate me from owing him sex? I know how his mind works... I'm so stupid. It's just that I need a friend sometimes. And he knows me very well. 

He actually helped you in a time of need..  what a friend should do.  Why do you allow yourself to think you owe him sex though?  That may be HIS hope and even his expectation, based on previous patterns of behavior- but that isn’t who you are or how you choose to express thanks.  
I would send wine.  A good idea for showing appreciation, IMO.   This action also lets him know your boundaries: friendship on a certain level but not sexual “friendship”.  My two cents, hope it confirms your feelings. 
congratulations on the job.  Remain strong with this challenging person. 

[Whore*of*Mensa]

@SusannaC Thank you so much, yes this is all of what I was trying to express. I think he has a habit of weighing up what he has given and what he has got in return; he doesn't like to feel 'used'. This is the first time I've thought, yes I could show my appreciation in the way that I choose, and that might help keep it on a friendship level where he isn't thinking that I'm 'leading him on'. Definitely going to send that bottle of wine! (actually the current situation does help, I couldn't take it around to him anyway as we're in isolation!)

[SusannaC]

Yep.   He may try to suggest/push/guilt you into feeling like you owe “more”, based upon what you’ve described.  In fact, I’d expect & be ready to deflect that unreasonable “hope” on his part & redirect  towards what is your wish.   His personality is challenging and controlling, but I’d like to believe within him there is some basic human goodness and feeling of affection for you.  If I was in your shoes I’d strive to consistently be kind &  firm, just as you’d wish to be treated!   Maybe he will (hopefully) learn-  albeit slowly, how to relate to you in the fashion you wish.   

[Whore*of*Mensa]

On 3/23/2020 at 2:11 PM, SusannaC said:

Maybe he will (hopefully) learn-  albeit slowly, how to relate to you in the fashion you wish.   

He finally got the wine, I ended up telling him about it first as delivery got quite complicated for some reason! He was really pleased and he said 'finally, after all these years. We understand what makes each other tick.' Which sounded great and we were stressing the friendship aspect, until yesterday he sent me another text with a lot of photos of me and the message 'and you wonder why?' to which I replied 'why what? These are nice memories from my mid 30s, I'm coming up to 50 now and not the same person any more'. And he still went on about what a shame it is because of what an attractive woman I am (maybe he was drunk).

 

Not sure I can change his mindset here. I feel vaguely insulted about all of this, but ready to let go and accept it. I'm thinking, he just is very shallow...Those hidden depths I keep looking for probably don't exist - not in relation to me anyway!

 

But I don't feel guilty any more and hopefully we can move on. I told him, I don't feel regret looking at the photos, they're just happy memories that I am glad to have, but those times are not coming back now. 

 

I'm really grateful for all of the support I've had here, it's helped me to get us both to a better place. Thank you so much everyone 🍰

 

 

[SusannaC]

I dunno.... maybe because I am an outsider looking in, it is easier for me to not take offense to his words.  Perhaps he is grieving for the relationship he knows he can not have with you.  Reminiscing.. Sounds as though he is still very attracted to you and holding on to memories, hopes... learning & growing & letting go of the past is a process and can be painfully slow with some people!   
He will let go of those thoughts & move on (eventually) is my guess, but may take time and be frustrating for you.  Firm patience and boundary setting and redirecting him to the present may help,  best wishes!

[Whore*of*Mensa]

@SusannaC yes you’re probably right, it’s good advice!

 

I did ask him fairly recently, when he said I was ‘beautiful’, what he likes about me apart from that.

 

He thought for so long that I said ‘really? Nothing?’ and he then said ‘No, no, um, I like your intelligence. Because it makes you so good at arguing,’ with a bit of an eye roll. Which was what my mother calls a backhanded compliment - sarcastic. A bit of a slap in the face.

 

So I guess for me it feels like I wasted a huge portion of my life on someone who didn’t value me - or only valued me for one thing. I think if I’d worked that out about him sooner, I’d have left sooner. It sounds weird but just calling me attractive feels like a rejection of who I actually am...He really would prefer I just didn’t talk and just sat and smiled for the photos (he took a LOT of photos) that he’d take to show his brothers.

 

Anyway we are very amicable now and I’m happy about that. I still have a lot of affection for him.

[anisotrophic]

4 hours ago, Whore*of*Mensa said:

I did ask him fairly recently, when he said I was ‘beautiful’, what he likes about me apart from that.

 

He thought for so long that I said ‘really? Nothing?’ and he then said ‘No, no, um, I like your intelligence. Because it makes you so good at arguing,’ with a bit of an eye roll.

Ouch. I had a moment like this when I pursued therapy with my mom.

 

Therapist asked her what positive things she sees in me. Long pause. “Well, she’s smart.” Then, more awkward silence.

 

I could roll out a string of compliments and admirations for her or any other person I love and respect. I’ve deployed that for my partner, on occasion. But I’ve not received it. That made me feel unloved, unvalued, hopelessly inadequate.

 

The incident contributed to me concluding that self esteem & self love aren’t just internal wellsprings, but I needed positive dynamics in my relationships to build myself up. And that my own struggle wasn’t my fault; much of it probably traced to a history of painful dynamics within my relationships.

 

But also, to recognize that some people just can’t introspect and verbalize a statement like this; it’s not their “love language”. It doesn’t mean they don’t love. (Although that might be true.) I need to be careful about reading into the absence.

—

PS to add, with a postgraduate degree from Prestigious Institution & other achievements, my mother’s “compliment” was really more of a concession. It only made me think, “yeah, I guess you had to admit that one at this point”.

[Cat7]

Quote

So I guess for me it feels like I wasted a huge portion of my life on someone who didn’t value me - or only valued me for one thing. I think if I’d worked that out about him sooner, I’d have left sooner. It sounds weird but just calling me attractive feels like a rejection of who I actually am...He really would prefer I just didn’t talk and just sat and smiled for the photos (he took a LOT of photos) that he’d take to show his brothers.

I totally understand your feelings. I would go No Contact. Neither you nor your daughter need a person with that mindset in your life.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

Yeah I finally saw him for the rapey, alcoholic abuser that he always was.

 

It was only AVEN and this Sub forum that made me doubt myself, made me wonder if I’d caused him to be angry and violent because I didn’t want sex.

 

No. He caused himself to be angry and violent and resentful. He never had the right to sex from me anyway. Nobody has rights to my body except me.

 

Been away from AVEN so long my brain righted itself again!

[brbdogsonfire]

On 7/22/2020 at 6:16 AM, Whore*of*Mensa said:

Yeah I finally saw him for the rapey, alcoholic abuser that he always was.

 

It was only AVEN and this Sub forum that made me doubt myself, made me wonder if I’d caused him to be angry and violent because I didn’t want sex.

 

No. He caused himself to be angry and violent and resentful. He never had the right to sex from me anyway. Nobody has rights to my body except me.

 

Been away from AVEN so long my brain righted itself again!

Good job overcoming the abuse and being able to push him away! We are all stronger without those that would keep us down. 

[ryn2]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:16 AM, Whore*of*Mensa said:

Yeah I finally saw him for the rapey, alcoholic abuser that he always was.

 

It was only AVEN and this Sub forum that made me doubt myself, made me wonder if I’d caused him to be angry and violent because I didn’t want sex.

 

No. He caused himself to be angry and violent and resentful. He never had the right to sex from me anyway. Nobody has rights to my body except me.

 

Been away from AVEN so long my brain righted itself again!

Not sure of what specifically you’re referring to, but several people did call out his behavior as manipulative and potentially abusive and recommended cutting ties.

 

Glad things are squared away with(out) him!