Confused and feeling guilty

[InvisibleSquid]

I came here awhile back while discovering that I’m ace. Since that discovery, I’ve also found out about so much of the rest of the spectrum, and now I’m starting to question myself even more. I thought I had it pretty solid that I’m a panromantic asexual, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder how romantic I actually am. I had never put much thought into it, but now I’m examining my whole life up to now, and it’s freaking me out. 
 

Any crushes I’ve ever had were on someone I was already friends with, and I never actually pursued such crushes. I might do little extra things for the person, but that’s really it. I never went further than that. The majority of my relationships were initiated by the other person in some way, and they usually ended (at least partially) due to me not really caring enough to continue putting the work in to remain “romantic” or “communicative.” I’ve never been very good with communication in the first place. (Thanks, autism.)
 

I’ve been married twice, and I’m pretty sure my first marriage was a rebound relationship. I’m in my second marriage now, and this is where I feel bad/guilty. We’ve been together for 15 years, and she constantly complains that I no longer do “sweet or romantic” things for her. I know that, when things were new, I’d call her a lot, and leave notes and what-not, just little sweet “courting” things. After awhile I had stopped doing that. I know this. It’s what happens with me. It’s not that I don’t care about the person or enjoy their company, but it’s just that I don’t really have those romantic feelings. And that’s what I’m getting at here. 
 

I’m starting to think that I’m aromantic, or at least demi-romantic. My wife keeps saying that I just treat her like a best friend now, and that there’s no passion. And now that she knows I’m ace (whether she actually believes it yet or not) it’s worse. 
 

We still spend time together, I love to cuddle and stuff like that, but it’s obviously not enough for her. We also have kids, and they want my time, too, and I enjoy my time with them. She, of course, feels like that takes even more of my time away from her. But I feel guilty because I know she wants more out of this relationship than I do. I’m perfectly happy with things being how they are, except that she’s not, and that makes things strained. I just don’t seem to have romantic feelings, and I don’t think I should have to force it. That would be insincere. I do love my wife, but I guess it’s just different. 
 

I was starting to come to terms with my asexuality, but now I feel broken all over again with this new possibility. What even is this?
 

Help?

[NickyTannock]

I've moved this thread from "Questions about Asexuality" to "Romantic and Aromantic Orientations".
 
Michael Tannock,
Open Mic moderator and Questions about Asexuality Co-moderator.

[NickyTannock]

You may be Aromantic rather than Panromantic, and your wife saying that you treat her like a best friend would seem to point that way.
Unfortunately, I don't know, as the definition of Aromantic would be someone who doesn't experience Romantic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have a romantic relationship with someone, but I don't understand what a romantic relationship is.

[Memento1]

Have you heard of love languages?  It sounds like it may be a difference in how you express romantic love than that you don't FEEL romantic love.  This is a very common problem in marriages of all sorts, and it doesn't mean one partner is "broken" or wrong.  With sexual / asexual relationships the "physical touch" love language is already mismatched.  If there's differences between the others it can heighten the perceived divide.

 

I may be wrong; you didn't really talk about what you feel for her, just what you do or don't do.

[InvisibleSquid]

25 minutes ago, Memento1 said:

I may be wrong; you didn't really talk about what you feel for her, just what you do or don't do.

You’re right. I have trouble with emotions, which I have discussed with my wife fairly recently, actually. My wife is very in tune with her feelings, whereas I have alexithymia (difficulty in identifying and describing feelings and in distinguishing feelings from the bodily sensations of emotional arousal), so there’s a massive disconnect right away there. 
 

So I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t know how I feel. I know I feel love for my wife, but I can’t say whether it’s romantic love. I always tell her I love her, but when she’s upset with me about how I am, she always says “yes, but you can love a friend.” I do things for her, I take care of her, I make sure she always has what she needs, same as I do with the rest of my family. But she clearly wants more from me than I feel like I can honestly give, and that’s what makes me feel broken. Do I just not care about romance? Did I ever really, or was I always just going through the motions to a point? I don’t understand me. 

[InvisibleSquid]

One of the problems with me in relationships is that I'm consistently emotionally unavailable. I'm a completely logical person, who does not operate from feelings. That's very incompatible with a lot of people.

[Memento1]

I'm still seeing a disconnect in love languages.  From what you say, you're hitting a lot of the love languages in various ways (words of affirmation, acts of service, quality time, physical touch).  So my question is can she verbalize more clearly what she feels is lacking?  You say you're confused, and I am too, because the words you're attributing to her are very vague.   Maybe she can look through love language stuff to see what resonates with her as what would make her feel loved, because "sweet and romantic things" is not detailed, it's extraordinarily vague.  I wouldn't assume that your confusion is all your fault.  Maybe she's not communicating very well.

 

You say you do not operate from feelings, but that's not true.  You're very obviously reaching out here because you're hurt, you're confused, and you care about what your wife is feeling.  It sounds more like your feelings have not been validated.  You're not even completely detached from identifying your own feelings: in this thread you've said you feel love, confused, guilty, freaking out, and broken.  That's much more than many will admit to.  Maybe you're better at writing things than speaking them?  In that case, maybe write her a letter.  It sounds silly but it can be very helpful.  You can take your time instead of feeling put on the spot and express how much you're struggling with this.  I can see you struggle with communicating, but I think she does as well.  Have you two been to couples counseling?  A trained outside perspective can help immensely in bridging that gap to help you understand each other.

 

I think it's also worth pointing out that the modern western focus on lifelong deep romantic love is unusual and unnatural.  Throughout history no society until now assumed marriages were held together by never-ending romantic love.  It is completely normal for the romance to dwindle this deep into a relationship, and maintaining long-term relationships takes a lot of effort on both sides.

[Glenster]

6 hours ago, Memento1 said:

Have you heard of love languages?  It sounds like it may be a difference in how you express romantic love than that you don't FEEL romantic 

I totally agree. It sounds like you need to figure out what YOUR love language is as well as hers- and I don't mean what makes you "aroused" or whatever, but what might she do that makes you really happy? Because even aros and aces have a love language- its often what leads to and drives friendship. For me i really value just being with a friend and feel loved when someone willingly takes time out of their day for me (maybe by going to a comedy show or amusement park, taking a walk, heck even cooking together), maybe you feel happy when you hold hands or cuddle, maybe she gives you a really meaningful compliment- love languages are really about happiness and not necessarily the stereotypical "lovey-dovey" jazz. It seems like you're both in the same mindset that, love is THIS and because you're not doing that, you must not love her. I think she just needs to hear that you do love her, as she's likely confused about whats going on as you try to figure yourself out. And dont put pressure on yourself thinking that love = sex, making out, love letters, etc. its not (at least to me) You chose to marry her, so something must have made her special to you. And if you have a difficult time communicating your feelings i fully agree that you should write it out- it does help!

Understand that love isnt black and white, we all experience it differently so try to understand what that is for both of you. I wish you all the best and I do hope youre able to talk to her. In the end, you know her better than anyone else here and Im definitely not qualified to assess your marriage, so you'll have to decide whats best for yourself. If that means counseling, sure. But it's important you listen to eachother. 

[InvisibleSquid]

22 hours ago, Memento1 said:

I think it's also worth pointing out that the modern western focus on lifelong deep romantic love is unusual and unnatural.  Throughout history no society until now assumed marriages were held together by never-ending romantic love.  It is completely normal for the romance to dwindle this deep into a relationship, and maintaining long-term relationships takes a lot of effort on both sides.

I completely agree with this. Unfortunately, I can see that my wife does not see things this way. She wants things to be the way they were when we first got together. I feel that is unrealistic. She has very specific things that she feels demonstrate love to her, and since I’m not doing those things, I must not love her. And she is very set in her ways, so it’s difficult to change her perspective. 
 

I also agree that I express myself much much better in writing than I do speaking. It has always been my best form of communication. 
 

Couples therapy might be a good idea at some point. I’ll have to look into that. 
 

Thank you both for your input. I needed to have this conversation. I still feel like I’m possibly demi/grey romantic, but at least this is a good start for digging into whether or not (or how) it affects my marriage. 

[Memento1]

Yay!  I'm glad it helped.

 

I'm a bit biased because I am training to become a relational counselor myself, but I think part of why couples counseling helps is because each partner can hear things less defensively when it comes from a neutral third party.  If you say to her "understand that doing those things doesn't come naturally to me", coming from you it sounds like "get off my back and stop bugging me to do these things."  It's an instinctive reaction to feel defensive when a request comes from someone who stands to gain from you doing it.  It doesn't matter how well you phrase it.  In the same way, it may help for her to read a book on love languages - again, because it comes from a neutral third party.  The trick there becomes not saying "you need to read this so you can understand me".  You're much less likely to get a defensive reaction if you phrase it as "people have recommended this book to me so I can understand you better, could we read it together?"

[InvisibleSquid]

I’m not sure I can get her to read a whole book on love languages. (She’s not a non-reader because she dislikes reading; it’s because she gets too distracted and won’t finish.) But perhaps if I could find the right article to lead her to...

[Glenster]

I'm really glad we could help! Just remember that it takes little steps to make a difference I wish you all the best and I hope you're able to figure it and yourself out.  Don't ever hesitate to ask for help when you're stuck in the mud. We're rootin for ya! (And Im sure there are tons of sites and articles you can find on love languages online if you need it.)

[InvisibleSquid]

Thanks again. We had a really bad argument the other night, and we’re heading toward separation as of yesterday. Last night we talked and decided to pursue marriage counseling. Hoping for the best! 

[Tehol]

I wish you success in your marriage counselling. I have a question for you. 

 

As an asexual how can you be married since marraige involves having sex in the first place. Since asexuals can't get aroused, how can they have sex? 

 

I apologize if this comes across as rude. 

I wish you best of luck. 

[Tehol]

2 hours ago, cbc said:

I mean, most married couples have sex at some point since most people desire their partners, but marriage doesn't automatically involve sex with zero exceptions.

 

Asexuals can get aroused and can also have sex. Asexuality is the lack of innate desire to have sex with other people (or not experiencing sexual attraction, as some may say), not a physiological dysfunction.

So if the person is not feeling sexual attraction that means he wont be able to get a boner and wont be able to penetrate which translates to not having sex. 

Sorry i'm a complete noob when it comes to asexuality. 

[Tehol]

1 hour ago, cbc said:

Genitals can respond to physical stimulation. I spent several years of my life having frequent enough sex with an asexual partner. He had no innate desire to have sex, didn't connect it to romantic feelings, is happy to go the rest of his life without it and would probably prefer to do so, etc., but his body responded as bodies can. Men and women alike can experience physical arousal as a response to rape, so surely you understand how a physically healthy individual who's willing to try to please someone they love could also get aroused from the actions involved in sex.

Okay now I am starting to get it. I was afraid that I might not be able to get an erection and maintain it if I get involved in sexual act. 

There is this girl that I am seeing who wants to have sex with me but I dont feel any sexual attraction. Am I right to be scared or should I just go ahead and risk it? 

Anyway thanks for replying, you have been a huge help. 

And sorry for hijacking this topic

[Janus the Fox]

Feel free to check the romance lexicon too.

 

[Glenster]

On 11/15/2019 at 10:30 AM, Ace of J said:

Last night we talked and decided to pursue marriage counseling. Hoping for the best! 

I'm really glad to hear that! Know that you have a whole bunch of ppl giving you their love and support here on AVEN as you go through this part of your life. Keep an open mind and stay strong, and I know you'll find more peace moving forward. I wish you and your family the best

[InvisibleSquid]

@Glenster Thanks so much. 

@CBC Thank you for chiming in here. 
 

@Tehol To put it bluntly, I am what one would call a horny ace. My libido is very active, yes I do not desire partnered sex, do not experience sexual attraction, and would rather masturbate and move on with my life. You can imagine how confusing it can be for me sometimes, knowing I don’t want sex, yet being aroused. Physiology doesn’t always agree with sexual orientation.