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Gray-asexual/ the 'asexual umbrella' are not asexual

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HikaruBG
1 hour ago, Galactic Turtle said:

I was expecting this thread to be locked by now but it isn't yay~~~~

 

I agree that there really doesn't need to be a new word. We already have language like the gray area/gray/demi. However, as was spoken more about at the beginning of this thread, simply saying something like "demisexuality is different from/is not asexuality" will get you banned/blocked/ejected/bombarded in the vast majority of large ace spaces. Let's not even start on the number of articles/interviews of asexual people who at some point say "not all asexual people don't experience sexual attraction, there are multiple types of asexual, I'm the type called gray-a." It just all seems like another tornado of misinformation to add to the already existing tornado of misinformation surrounding asexuality. 

 

And again, it's not that gray area folks are being kicked out of ace spaces or that they're not wanted. It would just be nice if the gray/demi population didn't insist on, for whatever reason, being called asexual... because they aren't. Similar perhaps, but definitely not the same yet for some reason it's an injustice to acknowledge that. 

And those two tornados of misinformation merging will make a hurricane, and I don't think that it is going anywhere soon.

 

Atleast, I can appreciate the fact that there are people who acknowledge that there are people who truly don't have sexual desire for sex (but they too heavily misunderstand how does it really work... and when that happens, I try to help them to understand it a bit better and where exactly lays the problem) and mock those who claim to be asexual or almost-asexual (these people, unfortunately, are not the minority).

 

Even if you try to deal with the misinformation by producing content that properly explain Asexuality and Gray-A/Demisexuality and what-have-you, you are bound to get a push-back by these same people who spead misinformation.

 

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Star Bit

Maybe Hyposexual Spectrum/Umbrella then?

To me, this also makes it more obvious that it's not referring to people who want an atypical form of sex.

 

But then another problem is that it's related medically and not as many people know the prefix's meaning. So I guess the only possible option is the suggested Semisexual? It would also explicitly ruleout asexuality from being under it, which is what we need.

 

Or Intersexual spectrum? Mesosexual? Midsexual?

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

Hyposexual is a recognised sexual disorder.

 

Why can't we just say Grey??? Everyone who falls somewhere between sexuality and asexuality is grey if that's how they want to identify.

 

I don't understand why it's even a conversation we need to be having, as someone who actually does 100% fall into the category of people being discussed here. I'm happy to say I'm sexual (as long as I thoroughly explain my desire patterns etc to any potential partner *before* letting them date me or whatever) but if I wasnt, I'd just say I'm grey.

 

Why do we need to make up new terms for something that already has a term, when there are already too many terms in the ace community anyway??? 😧

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Mackenzie Holiday
5 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

Why do we need to make up new terms for something that already has a term, when there are already too many terms in the ace community anyway??? 😧

I think what this particular conversation is centered around (or at least was, I'm not sure if people are still seeing it this way) is that there are gray asexuals whose needs for a label closely match the needs of asexuals and there are gray asexuals whose needs for a label more closely match those of sexuals (but not enough to find 'sexual' actually useful). So even though the term encapsulates them both, they have generally different needs from relationships, etc. The proposals for the new label/spectrum started as a proposed solution for that latter category of gray-As, but I think somewhere down the line the thread has become a little bit unfocused and confusing. Personally, I think we should be focusing on what people need from these labels rather than just using the labels as ways of linguistically categorizing people based on their experiences and tendencies.

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AceMissBehaving
13 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

 

Why can't we just say Grey??? Everyone who falls somewhere between sexuality and asexuality is grey if that's how they want to identify.

I genuinely have no idea, I honestly don’t understand why we have terms and labels but then don’t use them. Gray-A covers it I would think? But I think the issue is less about logic and function, and more about emotion at this point.

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Skycaptain

@Star Bit, as @Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)has just said, hyposexual is the term used in DSM-5 to designated a disorder of sexual desire, so using the term to describe people with an innately low level of sexual desire would create more needless confusion, duplication and crossover of terminology than we have already.

 

@Galactic Turtle, this thread hasn't been locked because people are having a civil discussion without name-calling, derailing etc. Thank you everyone, and long may this continue 🎂 🎂 

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DuranDuranfan

I just call the Sexual Spectrum. With no attraction on one end(asexual) to attraction on the other(Hetero, Homo, Bi, Pan). With the grey area in between for those who had sporadic moments of sexual attraction.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 hours ago, Mackenzie Holiday said:

I think what this particular conversation is centered around (or at least was, I'm not sure if people are still seeing it this way) is that there are gray asexuals whose needs for a label closely match the needs of asexuals and there are gray asexuals whose needs for a label more closely match those of sexuals (but not enough to find 'sexual' actually useful). So even though the term encapsulates them both, they have generally different needs from relationships, etc. The proposals for the new label/spectrum started as a proposed solution for that latter category of gray-As, 

The way it always used to be (well, how I figured it was, maybe I was wrong!!) was that you could just say "I'm grey-asexual" or "I'm grey-sexual" depending on which side you fall closer to.

 

Whether you say 'grey' 'grey-A' or 'grey-sexual' you're still going to need to explain it a potential partner anyway because people only really understand these terms on AVEN (for the most part anyway, lol), and it would be exactly the same if we had a new term for it as well, you'd still have to explain it to everyone else regardless.

 

If you said to me right now though "I'm grey-sexual" I'd interpret that to mean you're sexually attracted to grey aliens. Heh jokes. I'd automatically interpret it as "I'm sexual, but really not sexual enough to be able to have a 'normal' sexual relationship because I'm so different from everyone else when it comes to my sexuality" or "I'm sexual, but my desire is so rare that I probably won't ever be able to maintain a sexual relationship with regular sex" or something (which is the category I fall under. I'm also perfectly happy to never have sex again lol)

 

If you said "I'm grey-asexual" I'd interpret that to mean something like "I am totally happy without sex and don't mind if I never have it, but I have experienced sexual attraction to one person once before and did want sex with her, but it was only really fleeting and I've never experienced it again. So I'm not totally comfortable saying I'm totally ace, even though for the most part right now I'm mostly 100% ace" 

 

And if you just said "I'm grey" I'd know you mean somewhere on the foggy spectrum between asexuality and sexuality.

 

This was always my automatic assumption, but maybe that's just me and everyone else felt differently about it all this time, heh. It makes total sense in my brain though!! :cake:

 

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
8 hours ago, Philip027 said:

I'm not even talking specifically about the act of casual sex though, just the attraction bit.  I'm saying most people around me were *clearly* capable of experiencing that toward anyone that passed by that happened to look "hot" to them or whatever (to the point where they'd usually vocally comment about it as soon as the "hot" person was out of earshot), and I wasn't, and it was a very visible divide that affected my social interactions with these people, especially my ability to relate to male peers.  Obviously they weren't necessarily all interested in having casual sex or something; that's painting them with too broad of a brush.

You and I have butted heads extensively over this in the past, and I don't want it to turn in a shouting match again :P 

 

But I do need to reiterate (mostly for the benefit of others reading) that finding someone 'hot' or being like "damn she's got a nice arse!!" doesn't actually mean you want to have sex with that person, it's just a natural appreciation of aspects of another person so while it's labelled 'sexual attraction' by some, it doesn't really 'count' as instant sexual attraction (as opposed to the kind that needs a bond to develop).

 

For example, there are many aces who experience that kind of very strong aesthetic attraction, so they may love big breasts or firm abs or whatever.. they're still ace though because they don't actually want to have sex with those people! And many straight women will comment on another lady's breasts or butt or whatever if they think it looks nice,  even saying "oh my gosh you have a hot arse girl" (lol) or whatever but without any interest in having sex with those ladies.  And I've noticed a lot of gay men (Gok Wan is one example) will go on and on about how gorgeous/sexy/beautiful a certain lady looks. Gok Wan will actually grab ladies boobs and go "OH MY GOD LOOK AT THESE BEAUTIFUL MELONS you're a sexy goddess!!!" (haha) but he's literally as gay as can be and there's no sexual motive behind it.. it's just strong appreciation for the beauty of another person. 

 

But that's why some of us jumped straight to 'casual hookups' after reading your comment because we assumed you meant the people surrounding you automatically want casual sex with attractive people. Just appreciating aesthetic qualities (even if you're using strong words like 'sexy') doesn't automatically mean you want sex with that person or are attracted to them in a way that makes it full 'sexual attraction' though!! 

 

So it may have seemed to you that you were surrounded by people who experience 'instant' sexual attraction, when actually what they're doing is having a very strong appreciation of physical aspects of another person and using words like 'sexy' or 'hot' to describe that appreciation. A lot of them would probably admit they'd need to know the girl/guy better before they could actually want sex with them though!! (not saying plenty wouldn't just jump straight in bed with them though because that's definitely part of it for some people, just not all).

 

We have discussed this in the past though and never came to an agreement, but that's why we automatically assumed you were referring to hookup culture. :cake:

 

edit: sorry for off-topic!

 

 

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SithEmpress
On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 1:42 AM, Star Bit said:

😩This was a misconception before, but it's bad now. Recently I've been looking at Ace YouTube videos and keep seeing this BS on channels with a significant amount of subscribers! They're saying Demisexuals are asexual, etc. *facepalm*

 

For those who ask why to the title, it means they're close to it in some way but aren't actually it. Then why give it those names? When it was created no one thought it would be misconstrued, and the alternative simply hasn't caught on because the other existed first. Like Heteroflexible or Homoflexible. No one's saying those people are gay/straight because everyone knows it's a specific version of Bisexuality that strongly leans to one side. But in the Ace case, everyone IS taking it literally and saying gay ppl can be into the opposite sex, and straight ppl can want the same sex strictly because these flexible terms exist.

Yay, another definition debacle. Well, I'm going to quote the OP to respond before I read the wonderful crap-show this is going to turn into.

 

I first came across the "asexual umbrella" and was comforted, knowing even if I wasn't ace, I was welcome in these communities. I can see others finding it just as comforting. That we're all similar and even if my answer is "Never" and your answer is "Almost never", we can get along. 

That being said, "No" and "Mostly no" are not the same answers, and so grey-sexuals and demi-sexuals (who I think should use -sexual as opposed to -asexual) are not the same as asexuals. They're perfectly valid terms and I understand the stigma against them in the larger conversation around sexuality and attraction, but I do not want people confusing me for them and hoping I might one day, maybe, find them sexually attractive. 

 

I don't mind demis or greys from related to aces and being in our communities. I find them part of our community. I would just prefer they use ace-spec rather than ace to refer to themselves, if one must call it an "asexual spectrum". (I prefer "sexual spectrum" myself, but understand the desire for otherwise).

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Philip027
Quote

You and I have butted heads extensively over this in the past, and I don't want it to turn in a shouting match again  

 

But I do need to reiterate (mostly for the benefit of others reading) that finding someone 'hot' or being like "damn she's got a nice arse!!" doesn't actually mean you want to have sex with that person, it's just a natural appreciation of aspects of another person so while it's labelled 'sexual attraction' by some, it doesn't really 'count' as instant sexual attraction (as opposed to the kind that needs a bond to develop).

"I'm not even talking specifically about the act of casual sex though, just the attraction bit."

 

Quote

And I've noticed a lot of gay men (Gok Wan is one example) will go on and on about how gorgeous/sexy/beautiful a certain lady looks. Gok Wan will actually grab ladies boobs and go "OH MY GOD LOOK AT THESE BEAUTIFUL MELONS you're a sexy goddess!!!" (haha) but he's literally as gay as can be and there's no sexual motive behind it.. it's just strong appreciation for the beauty of another person. 

Uh huh, I'm sure.

 

Honestly, this rubs me about the same way as black people going around constantly referring to each other with the N-word, while still getting upset when non-black people use it to refer to them.  I think if you want people to actually take you seriously (in this case, not using the language you don't like), you should behave accordingly (in this case, not using it yourself).

 

Quote

So it may have seemed to you that you were surrounded by people who experience 'instant' sexual attraction, when actually what they're doing is having a very strong appreciation of physical aspects of another person and using words like 'sexy' or 'hot' to describe that appreciation.

I really don't think that was usually the case, but I appreciate your speculation on my own first-hand experiences that you didn't experience.

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Mackenzie Holiday
47 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

They're perfectly valid terms and I understand the stigma against them in the larger conversation around sexuality and attraction, but I do not want people confusing me for them and hoping I might one day, maybe, find them sexually attractive. 

I consider myself gray asexual, but I wouldn't want anyone hoping I might one day, maybe find them sexually attractive either.

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SithEmpress
Just now, Mackenzie Holiday said:

I consider myself gray asexual, but I wouldn't want anyone hoping I might one day, maybe find them sexually attractive either.

And after I read your comment explaining why, I totally understand. I'm willing to back off from my previous statement. 

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thyristor

*Phieww* I'm not reading through pages two and three here...

 

Since I'm still quite new here, I have a lot more two cents coming in all the time here...

 

It sounds to me that there is an actual issue, something that is real, for people identifying thoroughly as asexuals whenever the world around them thinks it's like conveniently having a headache in the bedroom. I am living in a very sheltered environment myself, I have never had any serious problems of any kind in my life, but from what I know about the world, I instantly believe that these are real issues and also issues that have a great impact on the people who experience them.

 

Since I have engaged in sexual activities many times, I came to this forum out of curiosity and... sort of... cos my focus was on "less than expected from me" in combination with "what was expected from me is what's considered normal". Like, I knew that I was on the asexual side in relation to my environment. I knew I'm not completely asexual.

 

I was also confused at how much sexuality that fits under the grey-label, where I find 'grey' a little less buffling than 'grace'. Speaking of relating things, maybe the child of a passionate sex-worker might feel asexual relative to their parent(s), because they have been raised with the view that sex is something so de-tabooed that it can be used as a fulltime job, but maybe they themselves feel different and want to keep their sexuality very very private and share it in a much more restricted way.

 

My initial feeling was: "Oh, I hope I don't get bounced out immediately cos, obviously I'm not asexual." Then I learned that people with many different degrees of sexual desires hang around here, and, an eyeopener was learning about aro, which is a completely different issue in my opinion, so, I find it quite cool and inclusive that sexual aros and asexuals can feel like a community exactly in these issues. That made me think that the umbrella of so called related identities is veeeery wide. But, honestly, I also got the idea of distinguishing between things. I wouldn't have called myself asexual. Although I have told a friend that I am active on an asexual forum.

 

Well... a-spec sounds like a plausible term to me, since it umbrellas any type of relatively little of the normal feeling towards sex and/or romance; now, if there was a chance that all human beings get the newsflash and are willing to adhere to it, we could just decide that 'asexual' means (truely) asexual and 'on the asexual spectrum' means not entirely asexual. But since we can't be sure everyone gets it, how about creating a new term then, that is sanctified from the beginning for the truely asexuals? Like... 'nil-sexual'?

 

I guess it's a bit sad that the 'victims' of some misunderstandings are the ones that need to change their label. And, it's not some Idea that I expect to be seriously considered. It's just an idea in a body of text, that's all, and I'm very much focussed on solutions, that's why, even if the greys are the ones that maybe should use 'asexual' with a lot greater care, you might get better results from asking the truely asexuals to start agreeing on a new label. It wouldn't be the first time in history that languages change.

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gisiebob
On 11/14/2019 at 11:30 AM, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

I don't understand why it's even a conversation we need to be having, as someone who actually does 100% fall into the category of people being discussed here. I'm happy to say I'm sexual (as long as I thoroughly explain my desire patterns etc to any potential partner *before* letting them date me or whatever) but if I wasnt, I'd just say I'm grey.

ok. but what if sexual people said you couldn't call yourself that? I mean  (most of them) don't hang out on little sanctuary islands because society doesn't make sense to them on an areed fundamental level...but if they did  and they said 'you are  welcome here, sure. but this isn't your clubhouse' how'd'ya feel?

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Serran
On 11/19/2019 at 12:34 AM, gisiebob said:

ok. but what if sexual people said you couldn't call yourself that? I mean  (most of them) don't hang out on little sanctuary islands because society doesn't make sense to them on an areed fundamental level...but if they did  and they said 'you are  welcome here, sure. but this isn't your clubhouse' how'd'ya feel?

Pan and many others have been told they aren't sexual on here quite a few times. One of the male sexuals on here likes to tell our female sexuals that a lot. 

 

Personally, I have been told on here I am both not sexual and not asexual. And it doesn't much bother me. I find it highly amusing people could find me ace when my clothes lasted 30m last time I got to visit my wife, due to mutual desire. If I were to ID as demi (which technically I fit), I wouldn't be bothered at all being told I'm not asexual, since I literally have a different label (demi). I just choose not to use that label since I don't need to communicate demi tendencies to anyone (married, no more potential partners to communicate to so don't find it useful). So, star bit doesn't offend me telling me that the label I most closely fit isn't asexual. I agree with them. My demi experience doesn't communicate if I say asexual. 

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Star Bit
On 11/14/2019 at 1:30 PM, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

Hyposexual is a recognised sexual disorder.

 

Why can't we just say Grey??? Everyone who falls somewhere between sexuality and asexuality is grey if that's how they want to identify.

 

I don't understand why it's even a conversation we need to be having, as someone who actually does 100% fall into the category of people being discussed here. I'm happy to say I'm sexual (as long as I thoroughly explain my desire patterns etc to any potential partner *before* letting them date me or whatever) but if I wasnt, I'd just say I'm grey.

 

Why do we need to make up new terms for something that already has a term, when there are already too many terms in the ace community anyway??? 😧

(Sorry late, been busy)

Which I totally agree with, but then it still raises the same problem. "I'm Gray-asexual so I'm still asexual"

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questdrivencollie

Demisexuality and some others that are typically considered gray-a/sexuality, sure, but in general I think of gray-ace as having experienced attraction in an incredibly rare and incredibly limited capacity. I know multiple people who have no interest in sex period but say "well once I did feel sexual attraction toward a person, so I guess I'm grey", while this person is in a relationship with someone they love romantically but they view sex as a chore they'd rather leave be if they had their druthers. Such a person should not be excluded from calling themselves an ace because of one or even a few fleeting moments where they may or may not have thought someone was sexy.

 

Now I realize some of the identities that are commonly considered grey-ace either fall under outright allosexuality or something separate from asexuality (I'm fine with demi being considered something separate), but imo most of those are bogus anyways.

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Philip027
Quote

Such a person should not be excluded from calling themselves an ace because of one or even a few fleeting moments where they may or may not have thought someone was sexy.

Should we also say people are still vegetarian even though they willingly eat meat every now and then, too?

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maybeimamazed

Oh boy.

 

I'm all for making things as simple as possible. This whole concept of an "umbrella" or a "spectrum" is pretty much the opposite of that. If you experience sexual or romantic attraction at all, you're sexual/romantic. If you're exclusively into the same gender, you belong in the gay/lesbian community. If you're into multiple gender/regardless of gender, you belong in the bi/pan community. If you're exclusively into the opposite gender, you're straight.

 

How often you experience sexual attraction or in which circumstances - while relevant as far as personal experiences are concerned -  is unnecessary minutiae in the bigger picture. Why isn't there a word for bisexuals that have a preference for a certain gender? Or for heterosexuals/homosexuals with a preference for trans individuals? And so on.

 

If you experience sexual/romantic attraction so damn rarely that it might as well be nonexistent, then you're just aro and/or ace. Again, let's make things simple.

 

But I obviously have no power over how people choose to identify.

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Sarah-Sylvia

I agree that someone in the gray zone shouldn't call themselves asexual, but for the rest said, I think it's a bit much, and coming from being upset.

It's an a/sexual spectrum, not just asexual. The less sexual you are, the more you're towards asexuality, the more you have sexuality somehow, the more you're towards sexual. (or more fully)
It's that simple.

I'm bisexual and have nuanced preferences. I wouldn't mind terms to specify them, but the general term is fine for the general public. Just like someone could say I'm gray-sexual, I'm fine with that even if there's more to it. I definitely don't see myself as asexual, even though I generally don't experience sexual attraction now (maybe it's more complicated, but yeah). And actually usually it can be my sensual attraction that leads somewhere else, so it's debatable, but I wouldn't use the term asexual for me even so.

In other words, it's worth talking about, but don't go too far. It's very good to have the entire spectrum for people to identify with, it's just a bigger spectrum than just about asexuality, which is just one side of it.

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Gnome.1
22 minutes ago, maybeimamazed said:

Oh boy.

 

I'm all for making things as simple as possible. This whole concept of an "umbrella" or a "spectrum" is pretty much the opposite of that. If you experience sexual or romantic attraction at all, you're sexual/romantic. If you're exclusively into the same gender, you belong in the gay/lesbian community. If you're into multiple gender/regardless of gender, you belong in the bi/pan community. If you're exclusively into the opposite gender, you're straight.

 

How often you experience sexual attraction or in which circumstances - while relevant as far as personal experiences are concerned -  is unnecessary minutiae in the bigger picture. Why isn't there a word for bisexuals that have a preference for a certain gender? Or for heterosexuals/homosexuals with a preference for trans individuals? And so on.

 

If you experience sexual/romantic attraction so damn rarely that it might as well be nonexistent, then you're just aro and/or ace. Again, let's make things simple.

 

But I obviously have no power over how people choose to identify.

You contradict yourself in your own argument.   You start by saying that "if you experience sexual or romantic attraction at all you're sexual/romantic."   You then g ok on to say " if you experience sexual/romantic attraction so damn rarely that it might as well be nonexistent, then you're just aro and/or ace."

 

I'll just go ahead and use myself as an example here.  38 year old male, romantic attraction to two people in my life and sexual attraction to one.  I consider myself Demisexual.  If this term didn't exist I would use grey-sexual because I don't have an advertion to sex and find it a meaningful bonding experience (prefer cuddles).  When I do not feel the closeness with sex I have no desires to participate in it.   If I was to never feel this I would consider grey-ace.

 

But, using what you are saying I should simply consider myself sexual and call it good.  By doing that I would be throwing out a lifetime of experiences that contradict a label that only fits with the abnormality and outlier.

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HikaruBG
On 12/4/2019 at 7:16 AM, questdrivencollie said:

Such a person should not be excluded from calling themselves an ace because of one or even a few fleeting moments where they may or may not have thought someone was sexy.

I don't get this argument.

That's like saying that a straight man would still be straight, even when he wants to have sex with men 2-3 times or so in a year... while he wants to have sex with women through the rest of the year.

He wouldn't be considered straight by the most of people.... Noone is going to say "Well, these 2-3 times doesn't count so yes, he is still straight".

So why should we make such an exception for Gray-As simply because they don't want to have sex with others ~90% of the time?


 

Spoiler

 

Also, a bit off topic but still somewhat relevant:

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

 

I unironically had this told to me once (and it was the only time me ever doing this) I stated my opinion on the topic off-Aven, not to mention that I got 'scolded' with "Go check Aven's resources" (despite the fact that I already was using them) as if I'm the one who is uneducated.

 

The nerve of some people!!!

 

 

 

Edited by HikaruBG
fixing grammar and context
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DoubleATripleA
43 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

I don't get this argument.

That's like saying that a straight man would still be straight, even when he wants to have sex with men 2-3 times or so in a year... while he wants to have sex with women through the rest of the years.

He wouldn't be considered straight by the most of people.... Noone is going to say "Well, these 2-3 times doesn't count so yes, he is still straight".

So why should we make such an exception for Gray-As imply because they don't want to have sex with others ~90% of the time?


 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Also, a bit off topic but still somewhat relevant:

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

 

I unironically had this told to me once (and it was the only time me ever doing this) I stated my opinion on the topic off-Aven, not to mention that I got 'scolded' with "Go check Aven's resources" (despite the fact that I already was using them) as if I'm the one who is uneducated.

 

The nerve of some people!!!

 

 

 

Well no, that guy would be bisexual with a preference for women. You have to be sexually attracted exclusively to the opposite sex to be straight. Even I am straight, even though I like both female and male genitals, because I am still only sexually attracted to women. 

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DoubleATripleA
1 hour ago, maybeimamazed said:

Oh boy.

 

I'm all for making things as simple as possible. This whole concept of an "umbrella" or a "spectrum" is pretty much the opposite of that. If you experience sexual or romantic attraction at all, you're sexual/romantic. If you're exclusively into the same gender, you belong in the gay/lesbian community. If you're into multiple gender/regardless of gender, you belong in the bi/pan community. If you're exclusively into the opposite gender, you're straight.

 

How often you experience sexual attraction or in which circumstances - while relevant as far as personal experiences are concerned -  is unnecessary minutiae in the bigger picture. Why isn't there a word for bisexuals that have a preference for a certain gender? Or for heterosexuals/homosexuals with a preference for trans individuals? And so on.

 

If you experience sexual/romantic attraction so damn rarely that it might as well be nonexistent, then you're just aro and/or ace. Again, let's make things simple.

 

But I obviously have no power over how people choose to identify.

I agree with what you said except for the "if you experience sexual/romantic attraction so damn rarely that it might as well be nonexistent, then you're just aro and/or ace." because even if there's still some sexual/romantic attraction, you cannot be ace and/or aro. That's still allosexual/alloromantic. I agree that you did contradict yourself there.

 

tldr

No sexual attraction = ace

no romantic attraction = aro

romantic attraction = alloromantic

sexual attraction = allosexual

 

Yes, that does mean greysexuals are technically allosexual and using 'grey-asexual' just contradicts each other and makes no sense. There is no spectrum. 

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HikaruBG
9 minutes ago, DoubleATripleA said:

Well no, that guy would be bisexual with a preference for women. You have to be sexually attracted exclusively to the opposite sex to be straight. Even I am straight, even though I like both female and male genitals, because I am still only sexually attracted to women. 

Yes, that was my point. The guy would be bisexual (although, I personally wouldn't have said "with preference for women") and thus, there is no reason for him to call himself straight.

 

I was merely using the same logic (but with different premise) as the person my response was directed to.

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DoubleATripleA
1 hour ago, Gnome.1 said:

You contradict yourself in your own argument.   You start by saying that "if you experience sexual or romantic attraction at all you're sexual/romantic."   You then g ok on to say " if you experience sexual/romantic attraction so damn rarely that it might as well be nonexistent, then you're just aro and/or ace."

 

I'll just go ahead and use myself as an example here.  38 year old male, romantic attraction to two people in my life and sexual attraction to one.  I consider myself Demisexual.  If this term didn't exist I would use grey-sexual because I don't have an advertion to sex and find it a meaningful bonding experience (prefer cuddles).  When I do not feel the closeness with sex I have no desires to participate in it.   If I was to never feel this I would consider grey-ace.

 

But, using what you are saying I should simply consider myself sexual and call it good.  By doing that I would be throwing out a lifetime of experiences that contradict a label that only fits with the abnormality and outlier.

I don't think anyone here said you absolutely cannot say you're demisexual, because you can. It's still valid to be demisexual, you're just not asexual in my opinion, because you still experience sexual attraction, making you allosexual, despite experiencing allosexuality in a different way. Not experiencing sexual attraction like every other allo does doesn't make you asexual, having no sexual attraction makes you asexual. Hell, you can even not refer to yourself as sexual if you don't want to, I also don't refer to myself as allosexual even though I am allosexual all the time, I usually say I'm heterosexual. Most allos don't even say they're sexual or romantic or not mainly because it doesn't matter to them, and you don't have to be an exception to that if you don't want to say you're allo and still just say you're demisexual, since that's the term you feel most comfortable with. 

 

I just think demisexual = allosexual

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DoubleATripleA
2 minutes ago, HikaruBG said:

Yes, that was my point. The guy would be bisexual (although, I personally wouldn't have said "with preference for women") and thus, there is no reason for him to call himself straight.

 

I was merely using the same logic (but with different premise) as the person my response was directed to.

ok I understand. I understand that you can be bi and have no preference or have one, but why is it bad if a bi guy says he has a preference for women when it's true? 

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HikaruBG
Just now, DoubleATripleA said:

ok I understand. I understand that you can be bi and have no preference or have one, but why is it bad if a bi guy says he has a preference for women when it's true? 

I'm not saying that's not true per se. It's just that bisexuality just means that someone is sexually attracted/desires sex with both women or men. Nothing more, nothing less. Adding "with preference for women" is kind of pointless you know?

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DoubleATripleA
On 11/12/2019 at 4:42 PM, Star Bit said:

😩This was a misconception before, but it's bad now. Recently I've been looking at Ace YouTube videos and keep seeing this BS on channels with a significant amount of subscribers! They're saying Demisexuals are asexual, etc. *facepalm*

 

For those who ask why to the title, it means they're close to it in some way but aren't actually it. Then why give it those names? When it was created no one thought it would be misconstrued, and the alternative simply hasn't caught on because the other existed first. Like Heteroflexible or Homoflexible. No one's saying those people are gay/straight because everyone knows it's a specific version of Bisexuality that strongly leans to one side. But in the Ace case, everyone IS taking it literally and saying gay ppl can be into the opposite sex, and straight ppl can want the same sex strictly because these flexible terms exist.

I agree strongly with this, this is why I wanted to make my own aro/ace videos to help educate allos and not get them confused with all this random bs. Allos will just not understand how you can be demisexual and asexual because you can't. 

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