Jump to content
Chihiro

Why AVEN is not educating staff members on Asexuality?

Recommended Posts

Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte

Okay lemme break it down for you as a tt and why I can't be a mod right now.

 

Here's today in a nutshell (without AVEN).

 

Wake up and run to work

Work for 8 hours, lunch where I browse AVEN a bit and do some light TT input and whatnot but today not so much because of what happened after work.

 

After work:

 

I go home and work on (project that's not AVEN related).  Project started at 5:30.  It ended pretty recently.  Project isn't finished.  Need to wait for more input.  Team is aware of the project and that I will be AWOL during this time.

 

I'm going to bed in about 30 minutes btw.

 

I don't really have the time for a forum right now and I'm cool with that.

 

I still wanted to make a difference because as an ex mod I had a lot of complaints and then I realized "I have a lot of complaints...maybe I should do something about it" and I'm hoping I'm making a difference.

 

Let me also break down what my job is as a Trainer.  I teach mods and admins how to...mod and admin.  Use buttons, deal with reports, learn the ropes, etc.  I do NOT teach them anything about the definition of asexuality.  That's not my job.  That's not their job.  They can believe an asexual is a dancing avocado and that's cool as long as they can moderate the forums correctly.  It isn't my place, or their place to have a "standard" definition that we all should be using.

 

Also I really want candy corn now.  Maybe I'll buy some tomorrow.  Thanks y'all.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moon Spirit ☽
1 hour ago, FaerieFate said:

I'm a mod for the members. I'm a mod to create resources for members. I'm a mod so members aren't treated like trash by staff like I was. I'm doing this for members, and I don't appreciate being yelled at, accused of not listening, and ignored for it (not by you specifically but members in general). I'm doing this for members,  and the membership is starting to turn into a membership that I don't want to do this for. I have to keep a thread of happy posts from members to remind me why I'm doing this. 

I think you're giving too much of a shit about the opinions of the members and should give less of one for the sake of your own mental well-being. Not everyone will be happy with you no matter what you do; so do what you believe to be right, but don't worry about those people.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kelico
21 minutes ago, Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte said:

They can believe an asexual is a dancing avocado and that's cool as long as they can moderate the forums correctly. 

Basically this. (I'm now imagining my Miku-cado avatar I used a couple years back for April Fool's...)

avocadomiku.png

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte
Just now, kelico said:

Basically this. (I'm now imagining my Miku-cado avatar I used a couple years back for April Fool's...)

avocadomiku.png

OMG YES!  That was epic!  If you weren't around for April Fools that year you can find it in JFF.  Lots of Avocados.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kelico
2 minutes ago, Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte said:

OMG YES!  That was epic!  If you weren't around for April Fools that year you can find it in JFF.  Lots of Avocados.

Yup, I was there, which is why I made the Mikucado. :lol: Now the official depiction of an asexual.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte
1 minute ago, kelico said:

Yup, I was there, which is why I made the Mikucado. :lol: Now the official depiction of an asexual.

This needs to be on the banner STAT

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FaerieFate
23 minutes ago, Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte said:

OMG YES!  That was epic!  If you weren't around for April Fools that year you can find it in JFF.  Lots of Avocados.

I miss that April fools :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte

Update: AVEN is now the Avocado Visibility and Eduction Network.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeld
On 11/11/2019 at 2:54 AM, Knight of Cydonia said:

Yeah... a couple weeks ago a staff member said you can be ace while still seeking out and desiring sex for pleasure.

 

Reading that from a staff member, especially amidst the concerns that asexuality is being taken less seriously, was pretty disappointing.

You can be ace while seeking out and desiring sex for pleasure. We've had such aces in the community and on AVEN right from the start, including some of those who made the site what it is. That doesn't mean all aces or even most aces fit that description, but some definitely do.

 

On 11/11/2019 at 6:50 PM, Serran said:

Mm. In this case mods can't do anything for some members. 

 

However... I have noticed one thing upsetting users in these threads is the repeating "I can enjoy sex even if I don't seek it out or desire it, but that would get me invalidated" sort of claims. The users feel attacked when they say over and over they don't even disagree with that being asexual. And admods do not respond to their rebuttals or defenses of their position. And next thread, it happens again. What is the plan to stop that cycle that helps to lock the threads? Perhaps a new wording to assure the members who feel targeted and misrepresented they aren't the target ?

Serran can you clarify this a bit? If someone says they can enjoy sex even if they don't seek it out or desire it, that makes complete sense to me (whether or not they id as asexual). In what way are they being invalidated? I feel I'm missing your point: maybe you can expand?

 

---

 

To address other points: as far as definitions go, AVEN does have a definition of asexuality. It's on the front page. That definition isn't "anyone can be asexual for any reason".

 

It's true we accept anyone as asexual who says they are, as far as AVEN goes. The same is true of every other sexual and romantic orientation, again as far as AVEN goes. That doesn't make it the definition of asexuality (or any other orientation), and it certainly isn't what we promote when talking about asexuality in the media or other outlets.

 

As far as enforcing a single definition goes, if we did that we'd have always required everyone on AVEN to use the lack of sexual attraction definition, and censured anyone who favours other definitions. That doesn't seem like a good outcome to me.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Knight of Cydonia
3 hours ago, michaeld said:

You can be ace while seeking out and desiring sex for pleasure.

This is incredibly confusing to me.

 

AVEN's official FAQ says things like:

 

"Many people who experience sexual arousal in some form still identify as asexual – they just don’t feel the desire to be sexual with someone else."

"Asexual people can still have libidos or experience arousal, but do not experience any intrinsic attraction or desire to engage in sexual activities with other people."

"Sexual Attraction: Desire to have sexual contact with someone else or to share our sexuality with them."

"Asexual people may enjoy sex with their partner because of the other elements of bonding and physical stimulation that please them, but don’t feel any intrinsic need for sex for themselves."

"[Asexuals] may experience arousal as a biological response to outside stimuli that they feel a need to relieve themselves of, but without any connection to wanting partnered sex."

 

I dunno. Being willing to have sex (and even enjoying sex) is one thing, and I know some aces do experience that. But actively seeking out and desiring partnered sex for personal pleasure?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeld
25 minutes ago, Knight of Cydonia said:

This is incredibly confusing to me.

Well the whole subject of sexuality can be pretty confusing as there are so many nuances. The FAQ does its best at giving descriptions that fit as many people as possible while being a reasonably coherent introduction for those new to the subject, but is not the be all and end all.

 

Quote

I dunno. Being willing to have sex (and even enjoying sex) is one thing, and I know some aces do experience that. But actively seeking out and desiring partnered sex for personal pleasure?

If some aces enjoy having sex, wouldn't seeking it out be a possible (not inevitable) next step? Many people seek out that which they enjoy. And if they enjoy it, I can believe they can derive personal pleasure from it. Most aces (though I dare say not all) can experience orgasm, and most (again not all) people, ace or not, as far as I know find orgasms pleasurable, so it's very believable to me that some seek it out, even if they don't experience any attraction.

 

Of course the link (orgasm=pleasure) --> (sex=enjoyable) --> (seek-out-sex) is most often broken somewhere for aces. For me it'd be broken at the first step, as I'm deeply repulsed by sex, so even though I can experience pleasure from orgasm, this would be overridden by my feelings of repulsion. But not everyone is the same as me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Knight of Cydonia
30 minutes ago, michaeld said:

Well the whole subject of sexuality can be pretty confusing as there are so many nuances. The FAQ does its best at giving descriptions that fit as many people as possible while being a reasonably coherent introduction for those new to the subject, but is not the be all and end all.

Why must we even try to have as many people as possible fit the definition of asexuality? I mean, whatever happened to grey-sexuality? Isn't its purpose to be able to take into account those nuances and, shall we say... grey areas?

 

30 minutes ago, michaeld said:

If some aces enjoy having sex, wouldn't seeking it out be a possible (not inevitable) next step? Many people seek out that which they enjoy. And if they enjoy it, I can believe they can derive personal pleasure from it. Most aces (though I dare say not all) can experience orgasm, and most (again not all) people, ace or not, as far as I know find orgasms pleasurable, so it's very believable to me that some seek it out, even if they don't experience any attraction.

 

Of course the link (orgasm=pleasure) --> (sex=enjoyable) --> (seek-out-sex) is most often broken somewhere. For me it'd be broken at the first step, as I'm deeply repulsed by sex, so even though I can experience pleasure from orgasm, this would be overridden by my feelings of repulsion. But not everyone is the same as me.

"If some aces enjoy having sex, wouldn't seeking it out be a possible (not inevitable) next step?" I mean, I thought the answer is "no" because the fact it's not the next step is because they're asexual, and the link "(orgasm=pleasure) --> (sex=enjoyable) --> (seek-out-sex)" is broken between enjoying and seeking out sex at the latest.

 

There's a big difference between someone going to and enjoying a football game when invited, and actually buying a ticket for their own personal enjoyment.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeld
1 minute ago, Knight of Cydonia said:

Why must we even try to have as many people as possible fit the definition of asexuality? I mean, whatever happened to grey-sexuality? Isn't its purpose to be able to take into account those nuances and, shall we say... grey areas?

That's not what I meant: I meant the FAQ is designed to capture the way most people (or as many as possible) use the terms while remaining a coherent intro. It isn't designed to include as many people as possible under the definition of asexuality. If that was the aim we'd simply define asexuals as all human beings. 😛

 

1 minute ago, Knight of Cydonia said:

"If some aces enjoy having sex, wouldn't seeking it out be a possible (not inevitable) next step?" I mean, I thought the answer is "no" precisely because the person is asexual, and the link "(orgasm=pleasure) --> (sex=enjoyable) --> (seek-out-sex)" is broken between enjoying and seeking out sex at the latest.

Well in some cases, I think it isn't. It's a well worn analogy but consider the fact that if left in long term single sex environments, even straight people sometimes end up having consensual sex with each other. That doesn't make them gay: they are still straight. And I guess they must be seeking out the sex, because it wouldn't happen by itself (leaving aside rape or coercion). Asexuals are arguably in a similar position except that the hypthothetical people we are sexually attracted to simply don't exist, anywhere in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Una Salus Victus
21 minutes ago, michaeld said:

 

If some aces enjoy having sex, wouldn't seeking it out be a possible (not inevitable) next step? Many people seek out that which they enjoy. And if they enjoy it, I can believe they can derive personal pleasure from it. Most aces (though I dare say not all) can experience orgasm, and most (again not all) people, ace or not, as far as I know find orgasms pleasurable, so it's very believable to me that some seek it out, even if they don't experience any attraction.

 

I'm speaking solely as a member here, not as staff, nor former staff nor anything else, but even I find this rather confusing. Even as someone, even for a short period that id'ed as grey ace for a while, which some people have pointed out some can be rather funky in definitions in itself. Hell, I've even had some people tell me that I sound more ace than anything jsut speaking from experience.

 

Which brings me to my next point, experience. When I first heard of asexuality, someone made a comment about it on another forum I've been on and off again since jsut before I turned 13. I, at the time had absolutely no idea what they were talking about, so I made some minor off hand remark about it. After that, they referenced a few things, and after a couple weeks, found myself here. You know what really helps? Not any wiki's (hell I have no idea where they are 99% of the time) but cruising through, meeting people and actually hearing some experiences, a handful of which at the time sounded rather familiar.

 

At the end of the day, in my personal opinion, the best education is experiences. Not having 5 million labels to describe every little thing nor having wiki's that have a definition, for I think these are where a lot of people are getting caught up. It's trying to sound too academic, too technical. It's like reading a dictionary so you can make a soup can label, and still being confused. "Validation" might be nice and all, but is that really the be all end all answer to everything?

 

I remember, as a former Q&A mod, mostly with young teens and the like that were asking if they were asexual or not, one piece of advice I'd always give was to keep an open mind, especially since those teen years a lot of things can happen. Not only that, I quite often tried to say that it was always good to learn such things, and sometimes may have even passed on some other resources we had pinned in Q&A, so that if not now, maybe later they'll come in handy. This may even come in handy for people later in life as well

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeld

@Una Salus Victus - I honestly agree with just about everything you said. I think wikis and FAQs and educational resources absolutely have their place, but they shouldn't be expected to cover every single possibility in legalistic fashion. There is a complex and nuanced language surrounding asexuality, built up of almost 20 years of online activity (both on and off AVEN). Just like a dictionary can have a stab at defining words in terms of other words, it would be an uphill battle to try and cover every nuance about how the language is used in practice. Same with any of our resources. We can do our best, and improve things where possible, but they are not going to capture the full story (at least while remaining accessible).

 

Validation really isn't about trying to cover every single base in the definitions, which is honestly a hopeless task. Rather it just means that, at the end of the day, it's for no-one but the person to determine what sexuality they are, at least as far as AVEN goes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sally

Someone can enjoy sex for their own pleasure and seek it out, and say that they are ace, and I guess, according to what MichaelD says is AVEN's attitude, they will be accepted on AVEN as ace.   Just because they say that they are ace.

 

But that is not what AVEN should be doing.   Because if that's supposedly the definition of ace, what's the difference between ace and sexual?   Is this just a forum for people who just want to say that they are ace, or people who actually do not want sex and therefore at least somewhat fit the actual definition?  What are we trying to say to people who have discovered that they may be ace, and they come here and find people who sound pretty damn sexual?  Do we want them to leave, confused and disappointed, and wonder where they can go?  

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Knight of Cydonia
31 minutes ago, michaeld said:

That's not what I meant: I meant the FAQ is designed to capture the way most people (or as many as possible) use the terms while remaining a coherent intro. It isn't designed to include as many people as possible under the definition of asexuality. If that was the aim we'd simply define asexuals as all human beings.

I wasn't saying I thought you believe asexuality should include literally everyone.

 

I was questioning why you believe that people that experience the "nuances" (like, people who experience no sexual attraction but still have a desire for partnerned sex... which is contradictory to how AVEN seems to define sexual attraction but I digress...) should still fit under "asexual". Why is "grey-sexual" not a better term? If grey-sexuality is not the place for nuance and people who don't entirely fit the AVEN FAQ definition (for example), what's the point?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeld
1 minute ago, Sally said:

Someone can enjoy sex for their own pleasure and seek it out, and say that they are ace, and I guess, according to what MichaelD says is AVEN's attitude, they will be accepted on AVEN as ace.   Just because they say that they are ace.

 

But that is not what AVEN should be doing.   Because if that's supposedly the definition of ace, what's the difference between ace and sexual?   Is this just a forum for people who just want to say that they are ace, or people who actually do not want sex and therefore at least somewhat fit the actual definition?

It's not the definition of ace. That is simply one possible experience some aces have. That doesn't make it the definition.

 

The definition of asexual that AVEN has used since its founding is the lack of sexual attraction. Some also prefer to define asexuality in terms of lack of desire for sex, and the FAQ incorporates that too. But "do not want sex" has never, ever been the generally accepted criterion for differentiating between asexual and not asexual.

 

1 minute ago, Sally said:

What are we trying to say to people who have discovered that they may be ace, and they come here and find people who sound pretty damn sexual?  Do we want them to leave, confused and disappointed, and wonder where they can go?  

I hope they get the impression that asexuals are a diverse group of people, and the way the terms are used is hugely nuanced. They should also get the impression that asexuals are less likely to want to have sex than most of the population, because that seems to be true both based on browsing forums and from surveys. But less likely doesn't rule out the possibility by any means.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeld
27 minutes ago, Knight of Cydonia said:

I was questioning why you believe that people that experience the "nuances" (like, people who experience no sexual attraction but still have a desire for partnerned sex... which is contradictory to how AVEN seems to define sexual attraction but I digress...) should still fit under "asexual". Why is "grey-sexual" not a better term? If grey-sexuality is not the place for nuance and people who don't entirely fit the AVEN FAQ definition (for example), what's the point?

For a start, the term ace can actually include grey-As (or equivalently grey-asexuals, which is a more commonly used term than grey-sexuals). Ace is often used as an umbrella term to include the whole spectrum of asexual, grey-A, demisexual.

 

However let's say we're talking about people who actually identify as asexual rather than the more general term "ace". I'd still argue the point here. Someone who experiences no sexual attraction may consider themselves asexual not grey-A or demisexual because the latter could imply they experience some limited attraction, either on rare occasions or at a low intensity. Maybe they don't find anyone hot at all - ever, in the slightest - but they can still enjoy the sex act. Again what's written in the FAQ is an attempt to be as accurate and informative as possible, within the limitations of the medium, but it should not be taken as prescriptive.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Serran

 

 

7 hours ago, michaeld said:

 

Serran can you clarify this a bit? If someone says they can enjoy sex even if they don't seek it out or desire it, that makes complete sense to me (whether or not they id as asexual). In what way are they being invalidated? I feel I'm missing your point: maybe you can expand?

 

The staff come in defending sex favorables by saying things like "I would be invalidated by some here for liking sex even though I don't seek it out", in which the people in the thread go "No. You wouldn't. None of us say that goes against the definition of asexual. You are misunderstanding our entire discussion here and our points". And then it gets ignored or the first statement gets repeated and then the users in the thread feel attacked and misrepresented. Since they never said enjoying sex = sexual attraction or desire. The last thread, staff doing that upset several and the thread quickly spiraled into being locked. And the users have it repeated so often now, they accused staff of purposefully putting words in their mouth that they never said. 

 

A different wording making it clear they aren't talking about people in the thread who have never said that (and never would, cause they say the opposite every time) could soothe members a little. Or at least a reply of "I didn't mean you guys. I meant some people on AVEN who have told me I am too sexual for that reason". But, the statement then ignore is fanning the flames of users being upset. 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Janus DarkFox
On 11/12/2019 at 4:06 AM, Moony's Boy Child said:

I think you're giving too much of a shit about the opinions of the members and should give less of one for the sake of your own mental well-being. Not everyone will be happy with you no matter what you do; so do what you believe to be right, but don't worry about those people.

There’s no limits of mods getting too involved, over-involvement in the memberships threads I don’t see much of an issue.  Sure... seeing things from past DT threads, definitely staff can go a little too involved, but that in the end, that’s just a particular mods style.  There’s no limit in how an admod can become personally and emotionally attached, such Admods can produce the best level of work for the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeld
4 hours ago, Serran said:

The staff come in defending sex favorables by saying things like "I would be invalidated by some here for liking sex even though I don't seek it out", in which the people in the thread go "No. You wouldn't. None of us say that goes against the definition of asexual. You are misunderstanding our entire discussion here and our points". And then it gets ignored or the first statement gets repeated and then the users in the thread feel attacked and misrepresented. Since they never said enjoying sex = sexual attraction or desire. The last thread, staff doing that upset several and the thread quickly spiraled into being locked. And the users have it repeated so often now, they accused staff of purposefully putting words in their mouth that they never said. 

I see (kinda). I'm sure the staff in question never had any intention of misrepresenting anyone. Part of the issue is that any large group of people doesn't speak with one voice. There definitely are some who'd find the idea you can be asexual and enjoy sex counterintuitive, perhaps even outright wrong - even if they weren't those in that particular discussion.

 

4 hours ago, Serran said:

A different wording making it clear they aren't talking about people in the thread who have never said that (and never would, cause they say the opposite every time) could soothe members a little. Or at least a reply of "I didn't mean you guys. I meant some people on AVEN who have told me I am too sexual for that reason". But, the statement then ignore is fanning the flames of users being upset.

I understand. I'm sure it was as an honest mistake, and hopefully those in question will read this and do better next time.

 

1 hour ago, Janus DarkFox said:

There’s no limits of mods getting too involved, over-involvement in the memberships threads I don’t see much of an issue.  Sure... seeing things from past DT threads, definitely staff can go a little too involved, but that in the end, that’s just a particular mods style.  There’s no limit in how an admod can become personally and emotionally attached, such Admods can produce the best level of work for the team.

Agree. We're really grateful to staff who take the time to address people's points, whether I personally agree with them on everything or not. There is absolutely a time to step away, whether for one's own wellbeing or because the same points are repeatedly being made by all "sides", and we're going round in circles. That's an individual call though.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon A.

Posted without comment.

 

tumblr_n2wv9elPZD1qf7ds7o2_500.gifv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AceMissBehaving
Just now, Jon A. said:

Posted without comment.

 

tumblr_n2wv9elPZD1qf7ds7o2_500.gifv

Au contraire we are going nowhere very slowly 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Janus DarkFox

Want mods actually do...

z43i0bws8gy31.jpg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Philip027
Quote

Some also prefer to define asexuality in terms of lack of desire for sex, and the FAQ incorporates that too. But "do not want sex" has never, ever been the generally accepted criterion for differentiating between asexual and not asexual.

PSA: Want and desire are synonyms.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Quote

The admods are following the rules that are set by the staff. Saying that they "are not educated" because they do not follow your rules is just wrong.

I'm not saying they're uneducated because they don't follow "my rules" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), I'm saying they're uneducated because... they fucking are.

 

It was even ADMITTED to right here in this thread when it was all but implied that no actual formal training takes place.  Unless you'd care to clarify what was actually meant by this, I think I'll keep with my own assessment of things, because it's what seems to be supported with all this "anyone can be asexual if they say they are" hogwash getting thrown around by staff.

 

Quote

When you attack my staff I will not just let you talk all over them.

That's certainly within your power.  Why not just lock this thread, like you guys have done over and over again whenever conversations steer toward something you don't like or feel like dealing with?  It's not like there's no precedent for it already, and it's admittedly a great way for you to avoid having to actually face any sort of criticism.

 

Quote

If you want to improve things, join the staff. Work with the board.

I'm not convinced most/any of you actually work with "The Board".  Work FOR "The Board", maybe.  Do everything "The Board" says, more like.  Be crushed underneath "The Board's" heel, perhaps?

 

And I think that right there is a big part of why there's such a high mod turnover rate here.  People go into it thinking they can effect meaningful change, only to find out they really can't do jack shit.

 

I'm not fooled.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FaerieFate
21 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This is AVEN. The whole point is to have our cake and eat it too!

 

Why would anyone want cake that they can't eat?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Janus DarkFox

Lest not forget the BOD public statement made 3 years ago, this is the BOD’s commitment to its membership.

 

It’s not like the BOD is this secret organisation or anything, it’s committed that all staff are and has to “work” with the BOD through avens values, that’s committed to its own membership.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon A.
2 hours ago, AceMissBehaving said:

Au contraire we are going nowhere very slowly 

tumblr_n6atbhlEOa1t5jymno5_250.gifv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte
20 hours ago, Sally said:

Someone can enjoy sex for their own pleasure and seek it out, and say that they are ace, and I guess, according to what MichaelD says is AVEN's attitude, they will be accepted on AVEN as ace.   Just because they say that they are ace.

 

But that is not what AVEN should be doing.   Because if that's supposedly the definition of ace, what's the difference between ace and sexual?   Is this just a forum for people who just want to say that they are ace, or people who actually do not want sex and therefore at least somewhat fit the actual definition?  What are we trying to say to people who have discovered that they may be ace, and they come here and find people who sound pretty damn sexual?  Do we want them to leave, confused and disappointed, and wonder where they can go?  

I'm a sexual who doesn't enjoy sex or seek it out because...ouchie.  I think we need to clarify the difference between attraction and desire better because according to a lot of people I am ace for sure but...I'm really not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...