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Chihiro

Why AVEN is not educating staff members on Asexuality?

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CBC

Most things are more complicated than whether someone is just "whining" (not always, but often). At any rate, sometimes it's pointless whether it's considered whining or not. Which is why I'm not touching the rest of the content in this thread with a ten-foot pole. I've learnt that with some situations in life, you just need to extricate yourself. AVEN is gonna AVEN either way.

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scarletlatitude
27 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

They are just ignored or dismissed as not possible, often because of "BoD".

The definition of "board of directors" is "a governing body that typically meets at regular intervals to set policies for corporate management and oversight." 

https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/140364-announcement-of-avens-incorporation/

 

So by going after mods here, you are essentially attacking them for doing their jobs. They are acting on behalf of the AVEN board and the rules it sets. This goes for all staff. We act within the board's rules. The trainers train them to act within their roles. Moderators are taught to moderate, i.e. to move threads, do reports, etc. DT is trained to declass threads. So on and so forth. 

 

Speaking of which, one of the rules they enforce is:

Quote

2.2 Personal insults/judgements
Personally insulting other users in any way is unacceptable. This includes, but is not limited to, not using a person's race, sex, gender identity or expression, creed, disability, nationality, or sexual orientation as a way to insult any member.

 

Making judgments about other users, especially about the validity of their asexuality, is disallowed. We are here to figure ourselves out, not to put each other in boxes.

 

This rule also extends to other orientations. On AVEN, the determination of other people's sexual, romantic and gender identities - by any means other than their self-identification - is not permitted. For more information about AVEN's policy on invalidation please see https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/190885-avens-policy-on-invalidation/ and https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/152709-a-message-about-avens-values/.

 

Let me highlight one part of that:

Quote

Making judgments about other users, especially about the validity of their asexuality, is disallowed. We are here to figure ourselves out, not to put each other in boxes.

The admods are following the rules that are set by the staff. Saying that they "are not educated" because they do not follow your rules is just wrong.

 

When you attack my staff I will not just let you talk all over them. If you want to improve things, join the staff. Work with the board. Do something more than post in site comments. If you are not willing to do that, then hush. There are plenty of other forums on the internet. 

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Moon Spirit ☽

Posted with comment

 

Screen-Shot-2017-10-31-at-114011-AM.jpg

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crazy ace

@Moony's Boy Child

and so the crusade begins.

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Orion the Hunter

A bowl of candy corn, the breakfast of champions

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pook
2 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

A bowl of candy corn, the breakfast of champions

Halloween-Breakfast-recipes-and-ideas-Ca

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Moon Spirit ☽
2 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

A bowl of candy corn, the breakfast of champions

Please don't eat candy corn for breakfast, that's so bad for you.

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pook
6 minutes ago, Moony's Boy Child said:

Please don't eat candy corn for breakfast, that's so bad for you.

dont invalidate our breakfast choices

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Moon Spirit ☽

@pook Someone has to

 

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AceMissBehaving
10 minutes ago, pook said:

Halloween-Breakfast-recipes-and-ideas-Ca

Did you just ruin waffles for me?

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MichaelTannock

I don't even know what "Candy Corn" is, there are a lot of things I've never been allowed to have.

 

Anyway, I became an Admod because I wanted to help the community.
Criticism doesn't bother me, because it can help me do that, but I am distressed if I am unable to do that.
Something I've been feeling a lot lately.

 

As for the question of the thread, the reason is that it's not every staff member's job, different departments have a different purpose.
However, even though it's not my job to educate since I'm just a Moderator, I try to answer questions to the best of my ability, and I've found the resources on AVEN helpful for providing those answers.

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pook
2 minutes ago, Moony's Boy Child said:

@pook Someone has to

 

 

why is aven not educating members on candy corn

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pook
1 minute ago, AceMissBehaving said:

Did you just ruin waffles for me?

i take this as a victory for french toast and therefore the world

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Moon Spirit ☽
3 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

I don't even know what "Candy Corn" is, there are a lot of things I've never been allowed to have.

It's a candy shaped like corn and made with bug secretions.

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pook
6 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

I don't even know what "Candy Corn" is, there are a lot of things I've never been allowed to have.

its the only pizza topping greater than pineapple

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FaerieFate
34 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

I don't even know what "Candy Corn" is, there are a lot of things I've never been allowed to have.

 

Anyway, I became an Admod because I wanted to help the community.
Criticism doesn't bother me, because it can help me do that, but I am distressed if I am unable to do that.
Something I've been feeling a lot lately.

 

As for the question of the thread, the reason is that it's not every staff member's job, different departments have a different purpose.
However, even though it's not my job to educate since I'm just a Moderator, I try to answer questions to the best of my ability, and I've found the resources on AVEN helpful for providing those answers.

You're a very good mod for trying to listen to members, even if they don't listen to you in return.

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Una Salus Victus

Candy corn is just an internet meme to distract us from the fact that the earth is actually flat.

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pook
Just now, Una Salus Victus said:

Candy corn is just an internet meme to distract us from the fact that the earth is actually flat.

the earth being flat is just an internet meme to distract us from the fact that the earth is made of candy corn

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Una Salus Victus
6 minutes ago, pook said:

the earth being flat is just an internet meme to distract us from the fact that the earth is made of candy corn

see what i mean? total conspiracy. i've seen the earth be flat, however i don't know anyone who is yet to come across candy corn.

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pook
5 minutes ago, Una Salus Victus said:

see what i mean? total conspiracy. i've seen the earth be flat, however i don't know anyone who is yet to come across candy corn.

the proof is out there if you open your third eye

 

08282018_candy-corn_pyramid_1000.jpg

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Una Salus Victus
5 minutes ago, pook said:

the proof is out there if you open your third eye

 

08282018_candy-corn_pyramid_1000.jpg

That's just pointing out that there was a candy corn in one of probably several ancient culture's mythos.

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Serran
4 hours ago, Puck said:

How we approach individuals needing support and our educational materials would benefit from two different approaches. Sadly, I don't think that AVEN approaches them differently.

Yeah. And agree it doesn't seem to. It'd be fine to have the community being all a big safe space if... the education and resources were out there being in the spotlight. But, honestly, BoD literally linked interviews saying "Asexuality is just whatever people call it" from news sources. So. The stance is just the stance, no matter where it's being presented. And you aren't likely to change that about AVEN. So, losing battle and all. 

 

I'll just keep sharing my journey and hopefully it helps some people. I know some that talk to me in PM that it has. 

 

3 hours ago, FaerieFate said:

It's pretty hard being mod. No matter what we do membership is unhappy, and it feels like we're always getting yelled at. I should suggest therapy session in admods to help them deal with the stress caused by unruly members that seem to never be happy. Maybe then more would stick around, and I could finally convince you to join the team!

Ehh. As an ex-admod who knows several ex-admods, don't blame the membership for all of us quitting. I know several (myself included) that quit for the red tape, stupidly long complicated procedures for literally everything done in the back room, backroom admod-to-admod drama and some stuff I'm not even allowed to mention cause it'd be breaching. I have fewer rules and less paperwork working for the government, despite having to be fingerprinted (to start working) and fill out forms every day, than just trying to moderate AVEN. It's the most overly complicated system I've ever worked in, despite moderating forums / chat rooms since I was 12 (and even helped moderate one of the big gaming companies community sections). The membership was (for the most part) nice and supportive, even the "trouble" users just wanted someone to hear them out, so I never had an issue with them that even got me near considering quitting. 

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FaerieFate
3 minutes ago, Serran said:

Yeah. And agree it doesn't seem to. It'd be fine to have the community being all a big safe space if... the education and resources were out there being in the spotlight. But, honestly, BoD literally linked interviews saying "Asexuality is just whatever people call it" from news sources. So. The stance is just the stance, no matter where it's being presented. And you aren't likely to change that about AVEN. So, losing battle and all. 

 

I'll just keep sharing my journey and hopefully it helps some people. I know some that talk to me in PM that it has. 

 

Ehh. As an ex-admod who knows several ex-admods, don't blame the membership for all of us quitting. I know several (myself included) that quit for the red tape, stupidly long complicated procedures for literally everything done in the back room, backroom admod-to-admod drama and some stuff I'm not even allowed to mention cause it'd be breaching. I have fewer rules and less paperwork working for the government, despite having to be fingerprinted (to start working) and fill out forms every day, than just trying to moderate AVEN. It's the most overly complicated system I've ever worked in, despite moderating forums / chat rooms since I was 12 (and even helped moderate one of the big gaming companies community sections). The membership was (for the most part) nice and supportive, even the "trouble" users just wanted someone to hear them out, so I never had an issue with them that even got me near considering quitting. 

I'm in strong belief that if users wanted to be heard out @MichaelTannock's attempts at understanding would have helped. They genuinely want to get to the bottom of the issue, and the fact that they are attacked irritates me as their co-mod in Q&A.

 

Given that Michael's understanding as a mod is something that I've been wanting to see in mods a while I don't think that such understanding would help the issues. 

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Puck
1 minute ago, FaerieFate said:

I'm in strong belief that if users wanted to be heard out @MichaelTannock's attempts at understanding would have helped. They genuinely want to get to the bottom of the issue, and the fact that they are attacked irritates me as their co-mod in Q&A.

 

Given that Michael's understanding as a mod is something that I've been wanting to see in mods a while I don't think that such understanding would help the issues. 

I think their attempts were amazing. It was great to see a mod interacting the way they did.

 

But what did their attempts to understand do to change? Members didn't just want to be understood they wanted to see change.

 

To be fair, that wasn't Michael's fault. It's a BoD policy, not an admod policy. So they actually can't change it. Which means at least some members will continue to be upset.

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njosnavelin

There is no "education team" in the forum. The Moderators are users themselves and moderating the forum in what is used as a platform of the education. They aren't the teachers. To educate is the work of the community. 

 

 

Remember every moderator is using their own volunteered time. 

 

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Serran
7 minutes ago, FaerieFate said:

I'm in strong belief that if users wanted to be heard out @MichaelTannock's attempts at understanding would have helped. They genuinely want to get to the bottom of the issue, and the fact that they are attacked irritates me as their co-mod in Q&A.

 

Given that Michael's understanding as a mod is something that I've been wanting to see in mods a while I don't think that such understanding would help the issues. 

Mm. In this case mods can't do anything for some members. 

 

However... I have noticed one thing upsetting users in these threads is the repeating "I can enjoy sex even if I don't seek it out or desire it, but that would get me invalidated" sort of claims. The users feel attacked when they say over and over they don't even disagree with that being asexual. And admods do not respond to their rebuttals or defenses of their position. And next thread, it happens again. What is the plan to stop that cycle that helps to lock the threads? Perhaps a new wording to assure the members who feel targeted and misrepresented they aren't the target ?

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FaerieFate
1 minute ago, Puck said:

 

But what did their attempts to understand do to change? Members didn't just want to be understood they wanted to see change.

 

To be fair, that wasn't Michael's fault. It's a BoD policy, not an admod policy. So they actually can't change it. Which means at least some members will continue to be upset.

If we did have the power to change it, we wouldn't be able to change anything if we don't understand. But how can we understand if every thread on the topic is closed because no one is listening when admods are just trying to keep the peace and everyone is yelling at them. 

 

If I compiled a list of everything I dealt with the last 3 days on the topic no one would want to run because no one wants to be treated like trash. But I won't because it'll look too much like I'm calling people out. 

 

I'm a mod for the members. I'm a mod to create resources for members. I'm a mod so members aren't treated like trash by staff like I was. I'm doing this for members, and I don't appreciate being yelled at, accused of not listening, and ignored for it (not by you specifically but members in general). I'm doing this for members,  and the membership is starting to turn into a membership that I don't want to do this for. I have to keep a thread of happy posts from members to remind me why I'm doing this. 

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Puck
3 minutes ago, FaerieFate said:

If we did have the power to change it, we wouldn't be able to change anything if we don't understand. But how can we understand if every thread on the topic is closed because no one is listening when admods are just trying to keep the peace and everyone is yelling at them. 

I understand you feel yelled at, I understand you don't enjoy the situation. I don't think most people on the site do.

 

Admods have a very tricky role to play here. A decision was made over their heads and they can't change it. Not everyone likes this decision, lots of people feel invalidated and dishearten by it. Lots of people feel like AVEN as a whole, not just the forums, are making choices that aren't the best for asexual visibility and education. There is a lot of emotion there, thus it's going to get an emotional reaction.

 

When admods step in here, they are stepping in as middle men. They are stepping in and spending time that many members know is either attempts to placate them or futile attempts at change that won't result in anything because admods can't change anything. Many long standing members know this. Thus, they don't trust the admods to be able to do any sort of change so what's the point of trying to have a reasonable conversation. 

 

I've been a part of AVEN for long enough that I know what's happening. Basically, it just boils down to this is a choice made by the BoD that will never change. People struggle to accept that so they are going to let out their emotions because they are upset about this never being able to change. And since they can't actually make anything change so they might as well just yell about it. It happens every few months on this forum, either over definitions or how the site is run or something else. It's not new to the site, it's the culture of it. At this point it's pretty inevitable. People just need to express themselves sometimes. It's not pretty and hurtful things can be said, but if a decision people don't like is going to be made (or reiterated), there's going to be bitching and moaning because there is always bitching and moaning because it's all members can do sometimes. And that's coming from someone who's done a lot of bitching and moaning through this whole thing and has done her stent in the back room. I know it's not pretty when I bitch about, but sometimes it's literally all I feel that's actually in my power to do and so I'm gonna do it. It honestly feels great to air my grievances at very very very least. I'd prefer change, but I'll take a little emotional unloading if it's never coming.

 

I do try to do it with understanding of others, I try to do it in ways that others can see my way of thinking. But I really do think admods have a responsibility to be patient with these situations because patience is the only way it's gonna go away (though it won't stay away). I know we don't all have the patience of @Serran to put up with another persons emotional posts and always respond with calm, responsible, and insightful comments. But we can all try to let folks do their emotioning when literally all that can be done is letting those emotions run their course (or you can try to change the BoD's mind, but we all know that's not fucking happening :P )

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Sithmaster WinterDragon

The admod team is here to support new members.

There are forums here with information to give knowledge to new joiners , that'll teach them in what best suits them or how they take the information. 

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