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Why AVEN is not educating staff members on Asexuality?

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Philip027
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But that being said... BoD is firm and not changing so all the threads are pointless. 

Authority being firm and unchanging has never stopped unrest and protestations before, nor do I believe it should.  So call them pointless if you like, but as long as the issue remains unaddressed, this will continue to come up, time and time again like it has been for years already.

 

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I think you're overestimating AVEN's influence on people not on AVEN. Which, in the grand scheme of things, is a significant proportion. 

Yeah yeah, asexuality itself is 1%.  What else is new?  We're no stranger to being a minority.

 

The point is, out of the people who do stumble across one of these articles mentioning asexuality, AVEN is almost certainly going to be a place the majority of them are directed to because it's almost always mentioned in those articles.  Proportionally speaking, AVEN has significance.  Which is why all this crap going on now is such a bummer.

 

Some posts above have already articulated this point better than I could so I'll just let them do the talking in that regard

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Phoenix the II

I wasn't taught to teach, I administrate :P 

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Skullery Maid
1 minute ago, Puck said:

Do you mean that if we stopped "invalidating" each other, these things wouldn't change? Or do you mean if AVEN attempted to uniformly educate, things wouldn't change? Or do you mean a third thing I'm not picking up on?

I mean that if we discussed these topics philosophically, rather than as direct attacks on individuals, the influence you want to see from AVEN would remain intact.

 

Let's look at it a different way. If I go to a gay site and they attack me, personally, for having had sex with men, I'd leave. They can hold that definition if they want to, but I'm just going to ignore them. If, however, it's just a topic that some members expound upon, I'd be quite likely to stay and discuss. 

 

Different approaches. 

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Timeless
6 hours ago, Philip027 said:

It's no bloody wonder things have gotten so tits up around here.

We've already heard and replied to your opinion, what are you gaining from insulting the team?

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Skullery Maid

Look. This is what I'm trying to do here. I know a lot of people have big issues with this announcement. If you want to keep being mad and salty about it, fine. But also, there are ways to look at this that may take the sting out of it. 

 

That's what I'm trying to do. Explain this in a rational and reasonable way, in the event that the angry people maybe can find a way to make peace with it. 

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Skycaptain

Simple fact is that there is a definition of asexuality an the front page of AVEN, but if people with a different interpretation identify as Asexual, as a moderator telling them otherwise ain't gonna be well received

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Puck
6 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

I mean that if we discussed these topics philosophically, rather than as direct attacks on individuals, the influence you want to see from AVEN would remain intact.

 

Let's look at it a different way. If I go to a gay site and they attack me, personally, for having had sex with men, I'd leave. They can hold that definition if they want to, but I'm just going to ignore them. If, however, it's just a topic that some members expound upon, I'd be quite likely to stay and discuss. 

 

Different approaches. 

Ah, thank you. I completely agree with that and think this forum could for sure stand to learn how to best support people by kindly teaching them to see different perspectives.

 

But I also think AVEN should take a different approach in it's outward facing resources and materials (the front page and social media, for example) where individual questions are being tackled, rather only the most recent research and built upon ideas/understandings we have gained through explorations of topics.

 

How we approach individuals needing support and our educational materials would benefit from two different approaches. Sadly, I don't think that AVEN approaches them differently.

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Skullery Maid
Just now, Puck said:

 

How we approach individuals needing support and our educational materials would benefit from two different approaches. Sadly, I don't think that AVEN approaches them differently.

100% agree

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Philip027
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We've already heard and replied to your opinion, what are you gaining from insulting the team?

Some small semblance of gratification, which is seemingly about all I can hope for because the prevailing "reply" I'm getting seems to more or less amount to "this is how it is; deal with it"

 

So I'm dealing with it.  Don't like the critique?  Do something about it.

 

In addition, I think it's a bit of a stretch to be calling what I'm doing here "insulting the team".  I'm calling out actions and policies here, not individuals.

 

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Simple fact is that there is a definition of asexuality an the front page of AVEN, but if people with a different interpretation identify as Asexual, as a moderator telling them otherwise ain't gonna be well received

Telling everyone they can be asexual no matter what they are and no matter what evidence there is to the contrary already isn't being "well received" from what I can see.  Now in addition to being "not well received" you can also be promoting misinformation.  Great job, I guess?

 

It's like swerving to avoid a pothole, only to end up plowing into a tree... after still hitting the pothole anyway.

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FaerieFate
47 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

So I'm dealing with it.  Don't like the critique?  Do something about it.

If you are ever unhappy with how AVEN is run, you may always attempt to run for mod to improve on AVEN yourself. :)

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Philip027

Hahaha, not a fucking chance in hell.  You must think I was born yesterday.

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FaerieFate
5 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Hahaha, not a fucking chance in hell.  You must think I was born yesterday.

You said that if you can't handle the criticism, change it. I'm just saying if you don't like how AVEN is run, you can run it. We're always looking for new mods :)

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Philip027
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You said that if you can't handle the criticism, change it. I'm just saying if you don't like how AVEN is run, you can run it. We're always looking for new mods

I didn't necessarily say change it.  I am well aware that's beyond the power of people here to do.

 

I said to do something about it.  Make me feel like you give a damn, basically.  Cuz for the most part, I don't get that feeling.  By and large, I get the feeling of "well, the Almighty BoD said this, so this is the way it's gonna be because the Almighty BoD said so, yadda yadda..."

 

And I am well aware this place is always looking for new mods.  That's precisely why I'd never become one.  Clearly there's very few people that want to remain one, and there's always a reason for that.  I have a pretty good guess as to what it is.

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FaerieFate
2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

And I am well aware this place is always looking for new mods.  That's precisely why I'd never become one.  Clearly there's very few people that want to remain one, and there's always a reason for that.  I have a pretty good guess as to what it is.

It's pretty hard being mod. No matter what we do membership is unhappy, and it feels like we're always getting yelled at. I should suggest therapy session in admods to help them deal with the stress caused by unruly members that seem to never be happy. Maybe then more would stick around, and I could finally convince you to join the team!

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Guest
4 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

And I am well aware this place is always looking for new mods.  That's precisely why I'd never become one.  Clearly there's very few people that want to remain one, and there's always a reason for that.  I have a pretty good guess as to what it is.

People constantly attacking well meaning volunteers who are just trying to do a good job has something to do with it. But hey, if it provides you with gratification, who cares about the other people behind the computer screens.

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Philip027
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It's pretty hard being mod. No matter what we do membership is unhappy, and it feels like we're always getting yelled at. I should suggest therapy session in admods to help them deal with the stress caused by unruly members that seem to never be happy. Maybe then more would stick around, and I could finally convince you to join the team!

There is absolutely nothing this place could do that would ever convince me to try to mod after everything I've seen and heard, so that'd be a wasted goal.

 

But after seeing how gaming companies like Bioware, Rockstar, etc. treat their employees and overwork them to the point of full blown mental breakdowns, I'd still be all for in-house counseling/therapy/whatever sessions being held for workers in any sort of organization, including this one.

 

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People constantly attacking well meaning volunteers who are just trying to do a good job has something to do with it. But hey, if it provides you with gratification, who cares about the other people behind the computer screens.

If you can't handle a little heat, the kitchen may not be for you.

 

Just because you are admods does not mean you are above any critique or scrutiny.

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FaerieFate
3 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

There is absolutely nothing this place could do that would ever convince me to try to mod after everything I've seen and heard, so that'd be a wasted goal.

 

But after seeing how gaming companies like Bioware, Rockstar, etc. treat their employees and overwork them to the point of full blown mental breakdowns, I'm still all for in-house counseling/therapy/whatever sessions being held for workers in any sort of organization.

I became a mod the second time because I wasn't happy with how it was being run. I think I made some real change for the better.

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Guest
4 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

 

 

Just because you are admods does not mean you are above any critique or scrutiny.

I was totally on board with the critique and scrutiny when this all started. A month and several dozen threads ago. At this point, it's creating arguments for the sake of it and I think everyone - outside a few people - are just tired of it.

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FaerieFate
6 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

If you can't handle a little heat, the kitchen may not be for you.

 

Just because you are admods does not mean you are above any critique or scrutiny.

I mean, we just want to make AVEN a better place, and it's kind of hard to do that when our resources and mental energy have to be diverted to elsewhere, like these constant threads that end up blowing up and have to be locked because admods are straight-up being ignored.

 

I've got a list of projects I'm working on in the back room, but I don't have the time to handle it because I'm constantly monitoring threads like this to make sure criticisms stay constructive and don't violate TOS. But if members could deal with the discussions a little more calmly I'd be happy to finish my projects and start releasing threads that gear more towards the "education" side of AVEN.

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Moonman

How can you teach people about asexuality? Nobody here can answer what it is that biologically makes people unable to experience sexual attraction. You very literally cannot teach asexuality from the beginning because none of us have any idea why we are ace, what it is that defines our aceness or anything in that department. So much of this stuff is still open to opinion and interpretation. It's your idea of what asexuality is based on your experience, your research and your conclusions. 

 

For me personally, I don't have any idea why I don't want sex. The best I can explain it is that I see sex how other people look at olives. Never tried them, never wanted them, do not like them. But my experience isn't every asexual's experience. Some people here have tried sex and didn't dig it, some people don't want it but don't mind it, some people are having it begrudgingly to satisfy their partner. We're all so different in these regards so how can you try and present it as anything universal?

 

We always say a lack of sexual attraction but try and define that in terms of feelings, thoughts and experiences. Try some examples. If you don't want sex but you say yes and you are indifferent to the whole thing, are you experiencing sexual attraction? You didn't say no, so some part of it was attracting, right? Or was it? Who knows? I don't.

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FaerieFate
1 minute ago, Moonman said:

How can you teach people about asexuality? Nobody here can answer what it is that biologically makes people unable to experience sexual attraction. You very literally cannot teach asexuality from the beginning because none of us have any idea why we are ace, what it is that defines our aceness or anything in that department. So much of this stuff is still open to opinion and interpretation. It's your idea of what asexuality is based on your experience, your research and your conclusions. 

 

For me personally, I don't have any idea why I don't want sex. The best I can explain it is that I see sex how other people look at olives. Never tried them, never wanted them, do not like them. But my experience isn't every asexual's experience. Some people here have tried sex and didn't dig it, some people don't want it but don't mind it, some people are having it begrudgingly to satisfy their partner. We're all so different in these regards so how can you try and present it as anything universal?

 

We always say a lack of sexual attraction but try and define that in terms of feelings, thoughts and experiences. Try some examples. If you don't want sex but you say yes and you are indifferent to the whole thing, are you experiencing sexual attraction? You didn't say no, so some part of it was attracting, right? Or was it? Who knows? I don't.

All of the resources I make are made with the help of AVEN staff (including admods, TT, PT, and DT) as well as a few select AVEN members that I think could help me understand the topic. It's not just my personal experience, but the experience of many people. I also review threads discussing the topics for more information if available. 

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Moonman
1 minute ago, FaerieFate said:

All of the resources I make are made with the help of AVEN staff (including admods, TT, PT, and DT) as well as a few select AVEN members that I think could help me understand the topic. It's not just my personal experience, but the experience of many people. I also review threads discussing the topics for more information if available. 

My post wasn't a knock at the work the staff do nor the resources provided to members. It was more me pointing out that we are still having definition debates about the subjective nature of some of the terminology. So how could we possibly try and teach this if we can't agree on what sex-favourable means, for example? We have little idea what asexuality is and what feelings specifically relate to it and recent debates have suggested to me that several people have different ideas about the threshold that splits ace people from non-ace people with a degree of clarity.

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FaerieFate
5 minutes ago, Moonman said:

My post wasn't a knock at the work the staff do nor the resources provided to members. It was more me pointing out that we are still having definition debates about the subjective nature of some of the terminology. So how could we possibly try and teach this if we can't agree on what sex-favourable means, for example? We have little idea what asexuality is and what feelings specifically relate to it and recent debates have suggested to me that several people have different ideas about the threshold that splits ace people from non-ace people with a degree of clarity.

A lto of these debates are had without much regard for the resources that we've already out there, unfortunately. As for sex-favorable, I'm going to work on something for that when I have the time

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Philip027
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How can you teach people about asexuality? Nobody here can answer what it is that biologically makes people unable to experience sexual attraction. You very literally cannot teach asexuality from the beginning because none of us have any idea why we are ace, what it is that defines our aceness or anything in that department. So much of this stuff is still open to opinion and interpretation. It's your idea of what asexuality is based on your experience, your research and your conclusions. 

The whole "why we are ace" thing is honestly an incredibly miniscule part of what asexuality is and how it's defined.  Just because that can't be given an explicit answer doesn't mean that we might as well go home because nothing else about it can be taught.

 

By that same logic, you might as well not bother teaching about homosexuality either, because we also can't explain why that exists any more than we can with asexuality.

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scarletlatitude
38 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

There is absolutely nothing this place could do that would ever convince me to try to mod after everything I've seen and heard, so that'd be a wasted goal.

 

Image result for complaining without solution is whining

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pook
14 minutes ago, scarletlatitude said:

Image result for complaining without solution is whining

i much prefer

 

sour-grapes.jpg

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crazy ace

.

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Moonman
22 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

The whole "why we are ace" thing is honestly an incredibly miniscule part of what asexuality is and how it's defined.  Just because that can't be given an explicit answer doesn't mean that we might as well go home because nothing else about it can be taught.

 

By that same logic, you might as well not bother teaching about homosexuality either, because we also can't explain why that exists any more than we can with asexuality.

You're right, I get hung up on the "why are we ace" thing for personal reasons. I'd like to know. I'm curious and fascinated about it.

 

However, I feel like teachings about asexuality should be somewhat scientific if we want to establish a common ground, if we want to say "this we are certain about". We can say that some people feel this and some people experience that but we're not establishing what asexuality is and perhaps more importantly, what asexuality isn't. "Lack of sexual attraction" seems intentionally vague to me, like it was designed to cover every grey area, almost as though everybody can be a little bit asexual if they choose to be.

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Philip027
40 minutes ago, scarletlatitude said:

Image result for complaining without solution is whining

I've given what would be my solutions, many times before actually.  They are just ignored or dismissed as not possible, often because of "BoD".

 

Since you evidently haven't been keeping up with my posts on the issue, I can do without your snootiness, thanks.  Not very becoming of someone in your position.

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crazy ace
posted without comment:
Blackberry-Cobbler-Candy-Corn.jpg
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