cp1213 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 I’m on team egg but I wanna see your thoughts on this Link to post Share on other sites
RoseGoesToYale Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 The dinosaur, obviously. They're chicken ancestors. Link to post Share on other sites
daveb Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 There were eggs long before there were chickens Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 The chicken came first. Or more accurately, the single celled bacterium that the chicken evolved into came first. The bacterium didn't come from eggs Link to post Share on other sites
SithLord Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Evolution says the egg. Link to post Share on other sites
Finch Koala Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Animals laid eggs before there were chickens Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 But single-celled organisms existed before there were eggs. I shall die on this hill! Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 The various breeds of chicken have evolved from other breeds and species over time. Ergo the first chickens must have hatched from eggs laid by different species. Link to post Share on other sites
Zectarash Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 29 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: But single-celled organisms existed before there were eggs. I shall die on this hill! But chickens aren't single-celled organisms! Rather, some single-celled organisms became multi-cellular over time, some of which became animals, some of which became egg-laying reptiles, some of which gave birth to feathery reptiles, some of which gave birth to birds, some of which gave birth to what we would consider genetically close enough to a chicken to count as one. That chicken hatched from an egg that wasn't laid by a chicken... ... Unless you count all the organisms along the way as chickens, of course. Edit: I do not. Link to post Share on other sites
cp1213 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 Thanks for all of your responses so far! Interestingly I did a poll from another forum and the majority voted chicken instead. Link to post Share on other sites
Zectarash Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just now, cp1213 said: Thanks for all of your responses so far! Interestingly I did a poll from another forum and the majority voted chicken instead. ... Did they explain why? Link to post Share on other sites
cp1213 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Zectarash said: ... Did they explain why? No they didn't they just voted. Link to post Share on other sites
Zectarash Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just now, cp1213 said: No they didn't they just voted. Aw. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, Zectarash said: Unless you count all the organisms along the way as chickens, of course. No, you just count the first organisms that they all evolved from, ie the single celled organisms that did not come from eggs. Those organisms eventually became chickens, but they still began as a single celled organism and not an egg. 4 minutes ago, Zectarash said: ... Did they explain why? Because they all agree with me, clearly Link to post Share on other sites
cp1213 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just now, Zectarash said: Aw. Oh yea I remember the majority of my science class voted for chicken as well because they thought the chicken is only capable to lay chicken eggs Link to post Share on other sites
Zectarash Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: No, you just count the first organisms that they all evolved from, ie the single celled organisms that did not come from eggs. Those organisms eventually became chickens, but they still began as a single celled organism and not an egg. But the question isn't whether the bacterium came before the egg, it's about the chicken... 1 minute ago, cp1213 said: Oh yea I remember the majority of my science class voted for chicken as well because they thought the chicken is only capable to lay chicken eggs But... then what laid the first chicken egg if chickens only hatch from eggs?! This is the part where I give an ambiguously-pronounced onomatopoeia for a scream of confusion. Auuugh! Link to post Share on other sites
RoseGoesToYale Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Schrodinger's chicken! At first it both existed as both chicken and egg, and we shall never know which because we weren't there to see it. Link to post Share on other sites
cp1213 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 11 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: No, you just count the first organisms that they all evolved from, ie the single celled organisms that did not come from eggs. Those organisms eventually became chickens, but they still began as a single celled organism and not an egg. Because they all agree with me, clearly Technically every species share the same single-cell organism as an ancestor , but it can't be assumed as a chicken because the organism would branch out to many species that are vastly different from a chicken. Also single-celled organism can't directly become chickens; the species which are not chickens came first (the closest I could find were the ornithomimosauria)and then they would lay a egg that would become the chicken. Link to post Share on other sites
cp1213 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 19 minutes ago, Zectarash said: But... then what laid the first chicken egg if chickens only hatch from eggs?! This is the part where I give an ambiguously-pronounced onomatopoeia for a scream of confusion. Auuugh! Exactly xDDD Link to post Share on other sites
Mackenzie Holiday Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Whatever we decide to consider to be the first chicken is going to be a little arbitrary because no species evolves into another in a single generation. There's no single cutoff point. But if we did choose a single historical chicken as the beginning of that new species (the very first organism that all modern chickens could theoretically breed with with the same success as they could with other modern chickens), that individual chicken was an egg before it was an adult chicken. Think of the question "what came first, the fetus or the adult human?" you can make all the same arguments for both sides. If we say that the first human was Lucy, well, Lucy was a fetus before growing into an adult. So the chicken version of Lucy was an egg before hatching into a chicken. So I vote egg. 🙃 Link to post Share on other sites
Phantasmal Fingers Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 To me this is a koan designed to prevent one from being exclusively stuck in dualistic thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
Kelly Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 On 11/6/2019 at 1:47 AM, cp1213 said: Interestingly I did a poll from another forum and the majority voted chicken instead. That's odd. I wonder why. Anyway, chickens evolved from theropod dinosaurs that lived over 230 million years ago. Chickens, even if we allow jungle fowl of the Gallus species of 50 million years ago to be called "chickens", came much later. Theropods laid eggs. Thus, the egg came before chickens. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 This painful question is what came first. Link to post Share on other sites
Calligraphette_Coe Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Neither. It was the nucleotides in RNA and DNA. And they were all invented by Donald Trump. So the Democrats better be careful, as all life on earth as we know it could be in peril if impeachment goes forward. ( There! A two-fer: politics AND science! ) Link to post Share on other sites
lapat67 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I agree that clearly if by egg you mean any species' egg, then that came first. If egg by egg you mean a chicken egg, then it becomes a matter of definition; whether a chicken egg is an egg that is laid by a chicken, or an egg that hatches into a chicken. i.e. at some point there was an animal that was somatically not a chicken and reproductively a chicken, do you call that animal a chicken or a non-chicken that laid a chicken egg? On 11/6/2019 at 9:25 AM, Mackenzie Holiday said: There's no single cutoff point. There is if you define precisely enough what a chicken is. Link to post Share on other sites
Mackenzie Holiday Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, lapat67 said: On 11/6/2019 at 12:25 AM, Mackenzie Holiday said: There's no single cutoff point. There is if you define precisely enough what a chicken is. I know, I literally made that point in the very next sentence. On 11/6/2019 at 12:25 AM, Mackenzie Holiday said: But if we did choose a single historical chicken as the beginning of that new species (the very first organism that all modern chickens could theoretically breed with with the same success as they could with other modern chickens), that individual chicken was an egg before it was an adult chicken. Link to post Share on other sites
Zagadka Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 A proto-chicken creature can lay an egg with mutations that create a chicken. A lifeform can not spontaneously morph into a chicken. Why is this even a question. I mean, the whole thing assumes that there is a solid line between a chicken and non-chicken, but that's how evolution works. Reproduction. Link to post Share on other sites
Janus the Fox Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 The cell came first 😛 Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 The chicken. The egg still hasn't found out how to cross the road. Link to post Share on other sites
N8ty L3asT Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 It’s neither. Link to post Share on other sites
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