Why aren't Americans rioting in the streets?

[RoseGoesToYale]

Serious question based on what the dude from Germany said in this video from The New York Times. Why don't we riot in the streets? If everything is truly as bad as this panel says, and plenty of Americans do know it's that bad, what force or idea keeps us in line, makes us get out of bed and go to work/school, post angry and indignant rants on social media, but still not make a peep? I genuinely want to know.

 

And I'm not talking about protests, even ones that get out of hand, because protesting in the US is largely a formality anyway. The people think they are exercising their right to free speech and influencing lawmakers, but the truth is that politicians only listen to themselves and their own kind. We don't have citizens initiative, and they are not required by anything to listen to the people.

 

What I'm talking about is people who feel so stripped of respect and human needs by their government that they go out, storm government buildings, block entire streets, set things on fire, break government property, and cause chaos like they got nothing to lose. I guess we have something to lose, but for the life of me I can't pin down what it is, because rioting happens in plenty of developing nations (and European governments know riots would happen if they attempted to strip away tax-funded services).

 

The US has one of the worst education systems of all developed countries. Graduates are being financially bled to death from loans. There's no parental leave. More and more people can't even afford to go to the hospital, much less get things like mental health care. It has the second highest poverty rate of OECD countries. The American Society of Civil Engineers grades US infrastructure as failing. My country is known for its astounding rates of hunger among developed nations, as well as its levels of food waste. Rents everywhere are skyrocketing. We have one of the poorest track records for worker's rights (school teachers in Chicago just ended a particularly long strike). For every 100,000 people in the US, 15 die by suicide (though this is low compared to other developed nations).

 

What keeps us content enough not to riot? Or is some major riot coming and inevitable?

[xToasty]

Hmmmmm, you really do have a point. Though I'm not one to say much, I live in Australia. When you guys do riot though, call me over. I wanna cause havoc too.

[Guest]

Michael Brown was shot at 18 in Ferguson, Missouri. I remember seeing this on the news a couple years back and was horrified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest 

 

[AceMissBehaving]

Honestly, fear. We have a militarized police force who are allowed to murder civilians minding their own business, with no to minimal repercussions, you couple that with the gun violence problem and divisive political tribalism and it’s hard to see any outcome other than a bloodbath.

[Morgenrot]

Sorry, I'm German and not American and might not understand the issues completely, but I'm truly wondering what's keeping you from the streets. If its fear, I just wanted to mention that in East Germany the riots were stopped with tanks and brutality, but people still went on the streets. People were shot and taken prisoners and people still went on the streets. If it's truly bad, you will power through the fear, I think. So, what's keeping you from rioting? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Morgenrot said:

Sorry, I'm German and not American and might not understand the issues completely, but I'm truly wondering what's keeping you from the streets. If its fear, I just wanted to mention that in East Germany the riots were stopped with tanks and brutality, but people still went on the streets. People were shot and taken prisoners and people still went on the streets. If it's truly bad, you will power through the fear, I think. So, what's keeping you from rioting? 

People have lives and families. Don't forget that our country is massive as well. Your country is smaller than a good portion of our states. People are divided on issues and there are so many opinions to deal with. The South is far more racist than the Northern part of America as an example. We wouldn't be able to ban together behind a cause because people would having too many differing opinions. We'll tear each other apart before we tear the government apart.

[Chocolatastic AroAce]

I also wonder if maybe enough people really don't think there is enough reason to riot. Some may just see things as 'good enough' and focus on the things they can change. It could be nationalism too....some think their county is the absolute best and are 'blind' to the problems. I'm not American though so can't really explain what the mind set is. Canada does have some similar issues..... though maybe not as bad, we have heath care at least.

[AceMissBehaving]

38 minutes ago, Morgenrot said:

Sorry, I'm German and not American and might not understand the issues completely, but I'm truly wondering what's keeping you from the streets. If its fear, I just wanted to mention that in East Germany the riots were stopped with tanks and brutality, but people still went on the streets. People were shot and taken prisoners and people still went on the streets. If it's truly bad, you will power through the fear, I think. So, what's keeping you from rioting? 

The problem here is it’s not just fear of the police and the government forces. We already have civilian people with a political ax to grind literally slaughtering others in public places without warning. You would be going against the government forces with with a crowd of people, many of whom could turn around in an instant and open fire on you with military weapons designed solely for war zones. It’s not just civilians vs the government. It’s civilians vs civilians as well. Add to that mix the powerful propaganda machines at play twisting people into each other instead of fighting the actual powers that are holding them down, and you have a reality that rivals dystopian fiction.
 

I genuinely believe that one of the reasons so little is being done both about domestic terrorism, and systemic police brutality here in the States is because it benefits the people in power to have the population rightfully afraid. 

[Puck]

I'm sure a few reasons...

 

I think it's because the people are polarized, which gives more power to the parties and our government. We are so split over issues that we can't come together. The Democrat and Republican parties both get the most power when we flock to one party out of fear of the other, and both sides do a great job of making their followers fear the other. The people need leaders to rally around in order to organize and revolt. No one has come forth to excite the people enough to think their riots would be anything but small protests which, as you say, don't get much traction. Even the protests that have turned to lighting shit on fire just ends in arrests.

 

If we really want change in the American system, we need to make our politicians fear us more than we fear the other party. Right now, if a congressman gets elected for 2 terms, they basically never loose another election for life. They have no fear, no reason to believe they should act any different than they are. If we can't even get organized enough to overturn this congress that has caused most the issues we are facing today, do we really think we could get organized enough to cause a riot that would do... anything? Showing up to vote is much easier than going out and rioting, I personally think people would be much more likely to do the easy thing than the hard thing. But people aren't even doing the easy thing.

 

But if I'm being real... honestly it's not that bad? Some people are going to disagree, but it's not bad enough that the people actually think rioting would be better than getting up and going to work/school every day. People don't really like revolution, they just want to live their quiet happy lives. If they think there is some chance that the government can get it's shit together enough for them to be taken care of, they aren't gonna riot. At the end of the day, America has the biggest economy on the planet, the most opportunities, the highest ranked colleges, the most chance to live a good life. Sure, it isn't perfect. Sure, we have major flaws. But crimes rates are lower than ever, murder rates are lower than ever, abortion rates are lower than ever...  we'd be tossing a lot of babies out with the bathwater if we were to overhaul.

 

Maybe someday it'll get that bad, but I really don't think we are there yet.

[Guest]

Because I have bills to pay and PTO isn’t always nice here.

 

The system means we genuinely cannot afford it.  This is why school walkouts happen all the time here because kids have nothing to lose.  Adults do.

[Guest]

Look as someone who lives in a country that has riots like every week it is not life changing, it is life fearing, it causes more problems and people fear for their lives. Riots destroy peoples things and time and money of little what they had. Also injured and death. They not going to get anything back and half the riots end up causing more problems then solutions. 

 

21 minutes ago, fallspicedefinitiondebate said:

Because I have bills to pay and PTO isn’t always nice here.

 

The system means we genuinely cannot afford it.  This is why school walkouts happen all the time here because kids have nothing to lose.  Adults do.

Most likely the biggest reason.

[Here&Queer]

This is a really interesting discussion. I agree with a lot of what has been said, and I'd also like to add that there isn't a major precedent for riots. In the course of American history, we've had some riots towards the beginning of the Revolutionary War, as well as a few within the decade leading up to the Civil War. There was famously the Stonewall Riot, too, but I wouldn't say that we have the type of culture where we feel that riots give us power. Unlike in a lot of European countries, where riots are commonplace, riots in American just don't happen very often. The few times that riots do happen and manage to make an impact, well, that's when we're desperate. It seems that Americans riot when we truly have nothing else to lose. At the moment, there's a lot threatening us, but we haven't lost the hope that things will turn around if we elect new politicians into office. 

Just my thoughts on the matter. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, KrysLost said:

People have lives and families. Don't forget that our country is massive as well. Your country is smaller than a good portion of our states. People are divided on issues and there are so many opinions to deal with. The South is far more racist than the Northern part of America as an example. We wouldn't be able to ban together behind a cause because people would having too many differing opinions. We'll tear each other apart before we tear the government apart.

Like i always say. Every country has their own different problems to deal with. Even though i live in a safe country, there are still some crime(not like in the US but still). Cause at night many terrible things can happen, especially in bigger cities like Copenhagen. When i was in Copenhagen one time i could hear the police sirens all the time at night. That’s why i don’t go out at night without someone i truly know. Especially today it’s the J day(it’s a day where young ones drink heavily) it’s not so nice to go out. So you see even though we might be the safest country doesn’t mean that it’s totally free from crime( All the European countries in general)

[Guest]

Just now, Cocothecoconut said:

Like i always say. Every country has their own different problems to deal with. Even though i live in a safe country, there are still some crime(not like in the US but still). Cause at night many terrible things can happen, especially in bigger cities like Copenhagen. When i was in Copenhagen one time i could hear the police sirens all the time at night. That’s why i don’t go out at night without someone i truly know. Especially today it’s the J day(it’s a day where young ones drink heavily) it’s not so nice to go out. So you see even though we might be the safest country doesn’t mean that it’s totally free from crime( All the European countries in general)

Try places like New York or Chicago. That's where you really find crime.

[Guest]

Just now, KrysLost said:

Try places like New York or Chicago. That's where you really find crime.

I can imagine. But i don’t think it would stop me for visiting them. It’s just about having someone around you when going out in the cities. It’s like saying that you won’t go out for a walk in the forest because there’s bears out there. But i am an anxious girl so it would actually worry me alot if i where in one of those states. I don’t know if it’s just me.

[thyristor]

Oh, I wish more people had the guts to speak up and question things. I am also not from the US, so the following is what I make of it from my end, please add insights if you want to enlighten me.

 

Obviously, those that literally can't afford to riot, fine, I don't blame them. And actually, physically rioting is not something that I see as an easy option. But there should be a middle class. Where are they? I'm convinced that Trump will get at least another four years with the dirty methods he uses and I'm not even curious to know how he will manage to forever erase the rule that one person can only be elected for two periods. I hope that if he does: if not Americans, then at least the rest of the world will riot against it.

 

When I was young, I sort of grasped that there was a scandal involving the fact that the US President at the time, Bill Clinton, was untrue to his wife. Already then, I could not understand why this would present a scandal. Nowadays, politicians get away with crimes against large groups of people, and that one little private thing would have bothered a whole nation?? So, where is the middle class, that should realize that so much discussion in media is superficial, the middle class that truely should speak up, because they already own their houses, because they have enough educated people to quickly stage new candidates for political positions, because they have enough doctors to keep health care system open even without a few months salary in a situation of administrative chaos? Where is the middle class, who are more than the political upper class? Where is the middle class, when will they acknowledge the shortcomings of the system and act? Get their asses up, pull up their sleeves and ACT?

 

In Europe a thing is going on that's called privatization. Much of the stuff that was governmental and free for citizens, such as education, health care etc, is now _sold_ (in terms of buildings, machines and so on) to private companies that say that they can run the business for a lower cost than a governmental organization can. They then get money from the town/region/state government for running their business. No company owner does it without profit. So, it's tax money for someone who would keep a business method to themselves for making profit out of taxmoney, or taxmoney for someone who pays workers less or has them work under worse conditions than when the business was publicly run. Many people are unhappy with this. The truth is, the health care system in my country is hailed to the sky by all other European countries, because media likes telling that story. But actually it is run down, there are long lines, and it is really hard to get through to a specialist. And the peoples' buildings and machines are gone. No longer ours to claim. Europe also needs to rise.

 

I guess we all need to get better at realizing that it's a great challenge to speak up for the truth. Maybe, if we realize it as a challenge, we will start feeling great if we do speak up. Tell the political, military and economical leaders of the world that they all are naked emperors.

[Skycaptain]

I can think of a couple of reasons. The police and justice system is far harsher than other countries. Get shot or get five years is slightly different from community service and a fine which you'd get in Britain. Also, take away the lowest 1% then USA living standards are good compared to other countries 

Same as why Brits seldom riot, it's hard to feel injustice when being on skid row means social housing as opposed to living in a shed

[uhtred]

Maybe things aren't actually that bad and people realize that riots and possibly civil war will make things worse far most people. 

 

The US has a lot of problems, but are they individually  that bad?  What would people protest and what would they want the government  to change - specifically?

 

Climate?

Wealth inequality?

Freedom of speech?

healthcare?

Unemployment?

Domestic terrorism?

Immigration?

Religious freedom?

Gun rights?

Abortion rights?

Women's equality?

Ethnic equality?

Housing costs?

Privacy rights?

Election  fraud?

 

These are all different problems. Maybe no single one has enough people excited enough to accept the huge cost of the disruption?

 

Most of the places with mass protests / riots have conditions that are far worse than Americans experience.   Iraq,  Xinjiang, Myanmar,  Syria, Indonesia, etc.

[thyristor]

Yea, I guess (lack of) living standard is not a factor that could drive people in most western countries to really riot.

 

I wonder, though, if you should rethink about that election fraud. That can turn out really nasty if you let magnats get away with that. I (European) have a question to you US-Americans in this thread right now:

 

Did I get this right? The president has the power to shut down governmental services such as health care and authority offices in some crisis situation by some definition, and your current president personally on his own, against congress opinion, defined immigration as such a dangerous crisis that he used this shut-down thing as a method to blackmail congress, that is, he puts his own citizens through weeks/months of no salary, no service, because he solo wants to walk over what a whole congregation of elected citizens consented on?

 

I don't see how election fraud is a small enough problem not to riot. But I am open to hear other points of view.

[kenny.]

maybe echoing a few points that have already been made...? there isn't one single problem that is big enough to have a large enough majority agreement on to suggest that a lot of people feel that it is serious enough to riot about. rioting is dangerous, it wrecks havoc on some people's live, rioters or not. also, compared to a lot of countries that do have riots sometimes, the US is absolutely not in that position. the conditions in the US are so much better than some countries' conditions and situations, there really is no need to riot. in my humble opinion, it would only cause more harm.

[Sally]

We're not really a country.  We're a federation of many different countries.  We're simply not homogeneous enough to make a move as a solid force.  

[Galactic Turtle]

Yes, America is not perfect. Politicians argue all the time and get done probably the bare minimum to keep the country running. There are probably a number of social issues. But the trains run on time and I'm just living my life. Something truly shocking and disruptive would need to happen for me to drop everything, riot, and get arrested. Until then I'll just vote when it's time to vote.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

5 hours ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

 

And I'm not talking about protests, even ones that get out of hand, because protesting in the US is largely a formality anyway. The people think they are exercising

What keeps us content enough not to riot? Or is some major riot coming and inevitable?

Quite simply, Bread and Circuses.

 

And for those for whom those don't work, there are myriad ways of being a staunch Refusenik without having to worry about the truncheon coming down on one's noggin. Just throw your sabots into the decrepit old machine and run laughing from the scene. It seems to be working pretty well vis-a-vis The Mango Narcissist.

[uhtred]

1 hour ago, elisabeth_II said:

Yea, I guess (lack of) living standard is not a factor that could drive people in most western countries to really riot.

 

I wonder, though, if you should rethink about that election fraud. That can turn out really nasty if you let magnats get away with that. I (European) have a question to you US-Americans in this thread right now:

 

Did I get this right? The president has the power to shut down governmental services such as health care and authority offices in some crisis situation by some definition, and your current president personally on his own, against congress opinion, defined immigration as such a dangerous crisis that he used this shut-down thing as a method to blackmail congress, that is, he puts his own citizens through weeks/months of no salary, no service, because he solo wants to walk over what a whole congregation of elected citizens consented on?

 

I don't see how election fraud is a small enough problem not to riot. But I am open to hear other points of view.

There is some election fraud in the US, but it doesn't represent a substantial amount of votes.   Social media manipulation is a bigger issue, but its not easy to craft laws to stop that  without severely restricting freedom of speech  There is some election manipulation - where policies make it more difficult for some people to vote, but its not really blatant.  Its a serious problem, but not a crisis and not one solved by riots.  The sources of election manipulation are quite broad, and its not easy to think of a set of rules that will make those problems go away.  Also, while a lot of americans believe that there is some election fraud, they disagree on the form it takes (restricting of voting of minorities, or voting by illegal immigrants).  Both sides truly *believe* the fraud is against their side. 

 

The US government provides all sorts of scary powers to each branch.  The supreme court can basically rule any act of congress illegal.  The president can cause various government shutdowns.  Congress can remove the president.

 

In principal if you ever got a 2/3 majority in both houses, and the presidency, you could appoint 10 new supreme court justices, and have them approve a change in election las that prevented the other party from ever winning another election.

 

So far the manipulations have not bee too bad.  I'm not happy with the current situation and I think impeachment is a good idea, but things are not actually falling apart - yet.  What worries me most is people giving up on the system and the resulting chaos and civil war. That could be horrible.  The US infrastructure for things like delivering food is very complex and fragile.  A civil war could kill a horrifying number of people, even if it didn't go nuclear. 

[Sinking_In]

As an American, I like to say we love to complain, we love to blame others, but we love our comfy chairs and televisions much more.

[SithLord]

There's a threshold something needs to pass over to get our attention, or to overcome our own self-interest. Rioting and protesting, or otherwise going out of our way to make our opinions known and obvious, is a disruption to our lives. Why bother spending the day in the hot sun surrounded by sweaty bodies when I should just work and earn another day's paycheck. 

 

It's learned helpless. We're so used to the insanity and injustice, that it becomes the norm. We think nothing will change go go "Why bother?"

 

There's also fear. Rioters are treated poorly by the media, and protesters aren't much better. Other than the public disapproval, you also have the militarized police who you can tell are prepared for a riot whenever a protest happens. And if things do get violent, it's the protesters who are arrested, maced, beaten, even killed. I'm not saying police are not at risk, but unless they're antagonizing the protesters, they're most likely not the actual target of the protesters' anger/frustration.

[thyristor]

18 minutes ago, uhtred said:

There is some election fraud in the US, but it doesn't represent a substantial amount of votes.   Social media manipulation is a bigger issue, but its not easy to craft laws to stop that  without severely restricting freedom of speech  There is some election manipulation - where policies make it more difficult for some people to vote, but its not really blatant.  Its a serious problem, but not a crisis and not one solved by riots.  The sources of election manipulation are quite broad, and its not easy to think of a set of rules that will make those problems go away.

(I automatically included the social media manipulation in the concept of election fraud)

 

True, you are right, laws are no way to go. An awareness of all people would probably be the only thing that truely helps. And, also true: a riot is not the way to get rid of the social media problem and not the way to get rid of the non-blatant parts of the problem. I guess, my feeling (although not expressed carefully before) is that, if Trump finds a way around the eight years maximum for his presidency, THEN I'd hope for a riot. Probably you can say that it is still dangerous then, and obviously one cannot over a few lines in a discussion make a proper decision on that hypothetic case. Well, I just hope that the lot of Americans see the problem when the day comes, however they chose to act on it.

 

18 minutes ago, uhtred said:

 

What worries me most is people giving up on the system and the resulting chaos and civil war. That could be horrible.  The US infrastructure for things like delivering food is very complex and fragile.  A civil war could kill a horrifying number of people, even if it didn't go nuclear. 

Where I come from, we have had riots now and thenin the past decades, at least, what I would call riots, what I would feel as riots, but we did not rush down a road of civil war. It's probably also a question of dimension: the happenings I'd call riot at home might not classify to be called riots in the US. It's probably a very fine line between taking action in some way or other (like the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement) and actually destroying stuff (owned by whoever) or hurting people (working for whoever), and it might be hard to organize the one without attracting mobs that carry on with the other. Difficult thing, but I feel a lot of hope while we're just talking about these things.

 

Gotta sleep now though... Nightz y'all in this thread! /Liz

[thyristor]

2 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

It's learned helpless. We're so used to the insanity and injustice, that it becomes the norm. We think nothing will change go go "Why bother?"

You say this as though you hope that your reflection gets through to others and might initiate a change in thinking. I so hope for it... (that's not just for the US, the whole planet needs this )

 

2 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

Other than the public disapproval, you also have the militarized police who you can tell are prepared

That's quite sick when you think that the US is all the world's great rolemodel when it comes to civilian rights, freedom to express dissaproval of the upper class. What's the point in granting people the right to carry a gun but not granting them the right to protest without fear? duh...^^ (I can say plenty of negative things about my own government, be assured, don't take it personal/national...)

[uhtred]

16 minutes ago, elisabeth_II said:

(I automatically included the social media manipulation in the concept of election fraud)

 

True, you are right, laws are no way to go. An awareness of all people would probably be the only thing that truely helps. And, also true: a riot is not the way to get rid of the social media problem and not the way to get rid of the non-blatant parts of the problem. I guess, my feeling (although not expressed carefully before) is that, if Trump finds a way around the eight years maximum for his presidency, THEN I'd hope for a riot. Probably you can say that it is still dangerous then, and obviously one cannot over a few lines in a discussion make a proper decision on that hypothetic case. Well, I just hope that the lot of Americans see the problem when the day comes, however they chose to act on it.

 

Where I come from, we have had riots now and thenin the past decades, at least, what I would call riots, what I would feel as riots, but we did not rush down a road of civil war. It's probably also a question of dimension: the happenings I'd call riot at home might not classify to be called riots in the US. It's probably a very fine line between taking action in some way or other (like the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement) and actually destroying stuff (owned by whoever) or hurting people (working for whoever), and it might be hard to organize the one without attracting mobs that carry on with the other. Difficult thing, but I feel a lot of hope while we're just talking about these things.

 

Gotta sleep now though... Nightz y'all in this thread! /Liz

I agree, if Trump stays in office after the 8 year limit, or in some other way directly and obviously violates the constitution, then I think riots make sense.  So far, while I think he has violated the law and should be impeached, the violations to me do not rise the the level where they are *obvious* to the great majority of people.  (it is possible, maybe likely that the impeachment investigation may reveal obvious violations, in which case things get simpler).

 

I'm very worried about social media manipulation and I don't know how to fix it without dangerous restrictions in freedom of speech. (but I'm happy to listen if anyone does have a good idea - I want it to stop, just don't know how).

 

 

[daveb]

56 minutes ago, elisabeth_II said:

That's quite sick when you think that the US is all the world's great rolemodel when it comes to civilian rights, freedom to express dissaproval of the upper class. What's the point in granting people the right to carry a gun but not granting them the right to protest without fear?

The 1st amendment of the US Constitution does include the right to assemble peaceably. Freedom of speech would cover the freedom to express disapproval, which many people do all the time. Riots and violence are not considered civil rights under this.

 

Quote

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.