I am disappointed in my therapist

[iwouldrathercuddle]

 Last week i tried talking to my therapist about my (a)sexuality. She didn't react very nicely. She told me that she is no specialist but that she generally thinks sexual desire is something everyone has in one way or  another and if someone doesn't have it, there will be probably some specific psychological reasons for it (so she basically told me it could be "changed" or "fixed", right?). The first thing she said was "maybe you just hadn't the right sexual experiences yet". She didn't know what "LGBTQ+" is, i told her that Ace is a spectrum and that it is a sexual orientation just like being homosexual, and that it's kind of weird to use arguments like "you haven't had the proper experience yet" or "something is wrong with you" on someone's sexual orientation. I even explained to her that this exact same arguments were (and still are) a huge part of the discrimination towards different sexual orientations in the past. She continued with telling me that she knows homosexual people who (so she thinks) have specific reasons for being homosexuell, whatever that was supposed to mean. I didn't ask for more info. All in all she kind of just didn't want to admit that sexual orientation is not something you choose. I mean, yes, in my case i am not sure what comes from trouble in my past and what's just me being me. But she kept telling me that she's seeing a few possible things that could have affected my sexuality but she not once told me that if i'm just not into sex, that would be okay. I feel misunderstood and the more i think about it the more cruel all the stuff she said seems. I almost can't belive that i didn't just walk out on her. I am a very political person and fighting for the rights of LGBTQ+ people is part of that. But she kept talking about me and my past and it was all kind of a blurr. Also, i wasn't prepeared for some political discussion with my therapist. I really don't need to know what she thinks about certain things (so i thought), but now i feel kind of uncomfortable talking to her about my sexuality again. This all happened last week and tomorrow i go see her again. I have no idea how to bring this up, there are so many ways. I could just ask her wtf she thinks about the legal rights of LGBTQ+ people in our society, because i'm kind of angry lol. I could choose a more productive way and just tell her that i didn't feel very comfortable with her not willing to accept that i (and many other people) just don't like sex. Maybe it's because of the stuff she learned, maybe it's outdated? We're doing some kind of depth phychology. Maybe i'll do some research.

Any advice on how i should bring all of this up?

[Lichley]

Ohoho do I have the info for you  

First off, it’s in the DSM V 

http://www.asexualityarchive.com/asexuality-in-the-dsm-5/

Quote

FULL REFERENCE:

On page 434, in the section on Female Sexual Interest/Arousal Disorder (302.72), at the end of the “Diagnostic Features”, it reads:

If a lifelong lack of sexual desire is better explained by one’s self-identification as “asexual”, then a diagnosis of female sexual interest/arousal disorder would not be made.

On page 443, in the section on Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder (302.71), at the end of the “Differential Diagnosis”, it reads:

If the man’s low desire is explained by self-identification as an asexual, then a diagnosis of male hypoactive sexual desire disorder is not made.

So they’ve already tried to go against a published and peer reviewed journal. 

Secondly, there’s all of these one’s too: 

 

[Missing]

That's awful! Frankly, I would recommend finding a new therapist altogether. One of the most critical components of any client/therapist relationship is feeling comfortable talking openly about your thoughts, feelings, experiences, and the things that make up who you are. This therapist sounds ignorant on a lot of things that are important to your life. The fact that she didn't even know what LGBTQ+ is indicates that she is utterly ill-equipped to provide the care you need from a therapist to you as an individual. I don't think you should waste any more time or money on her.

[Catserole]

Get a different therapist.

[SithLord]

If you want to be aggressive, I whole-heartedly agree. Go for it. Come prepared with all sorts of articles and facts for proof. Tell her that she failed as a therapist for refusing to be open-minded. 

 

If you don't want to be, I say drop her as a therapist, stating this as the reason why. 

[mausgrau]

In your next session tomorrow, as quickly as possible, resolve to get a definite sense of whether or not this therapist is ready and has the mental wherewithal to educate herself, on her own time, about these crucial issues. You are her client; it is not your job to provide her with this kind of (overdue) education yourself, free of charge, on your time, which you pay her for. If you find that she's actually able and eager to do this work in a time frame that's useful to you, as far as concerns the issues you are working on in therapy go, you might want to continue with her. If not, she proved to be of quite limited use as a therapist.

 

It's certainly a disappointing situation. I'm sorry you have to go through that with someone who should be expected to know better.

[Abigail Rose]

1 hour ago, iwouldrathercuddle said:

 Last week i tried talking to my therapist about my (a)sexuality. She didn't react very nicely. She told me that she is no specialist but that she generally thinks sexual desire is something everyone has in one way or  another and if someone doesn't have it, there will be probably some specific psychological reasons for it (so she basically told me it could be "changed" or "fixed", right?). The first thing she said was "maybe you just hadn't the right sexual experiences yet". She didn't know what "LGBTQ+" is, i told her that Ace is a spectrum and that it is a sexual orientation just like being homosexual, and that it's kind of weird to use arguments like "you haven't had the proper experience yet" or "something is wrong with you" on someone's sexual orientation. I even explained to her that this exact same arguments were (and still are) a huge part of the discrimination towards different sexual orientations in the past. She continued with telling me that she knows homosexual people who (so she thinks) have specific reasons for being homosexuell, whatever that was supposed to mean. I didn't ask for more info. All in all she kind of just didn't want to admit that sexual orientation is not something you choose. I mean, yes, in my case i am not sure what comes from trouble in my past and what's just me being me. But she kept telling me that she's seeing a few possible things that could have affected my sexuality but she not once told me that if i'm just not into sex, that would be okay. I feel misunderstood and the more i think about it the more cruel all the stuff she said seems. I almost can't belive that i didn't just walk out on her. I am a very political person and fighting for the rights of LGBTQ+ people is part of that. But she kept talking about me and my past and it was all kind of a blurr. Also, i wasn't prepeared for some political discussion with my therapist. I really don't need to know what she thinks about certain things (so i thought), but now i feel kind of uncomfortable talking to her about my sexuality again. This all happened last week and tomorrow i go see her again. I have no idea how to bring this up, there are so many ways. I could just ask her wtf she thinks about the legal rights of LGBTQ+ people in our society, because i'm kind of angry lol. I could choose a more productive way and just tell her that i didn't feel very comfortable with her not willing to accept that i (and many other people) just don't like sex. Maybe it's because of the stuff she learned, maybe it's outdated? We're doing some kind of depth phychology. Maybe i'll do some research.

Any advice on how i should bring all of this up?

Hello, I think you have made an unusual discovery here. Perhaps you do not see it yet. If you know how you feel, and I presume you are quite confident with it, then what lesson is here to be learned? You already know you. You ultimately know with whom you feel comfortable or not. You seem to dislike this person for casting doubt on literally what makes you (and actually every one of us to some degree) who you are. Thus you already have determined this person has a closed and unwavering point of view, which seems to make you uneasy and uncomfortable. This person will only respond to you the way they are designed to and it is not likely you will ever receive the answer or validation you deserve. Therapy is for reflection upon oneself with a guide to help if you stray from the healing path. It is your journey to discover your own life and love it or not. This person has taken the whole road away and that is sad. I would suggest many things but one which I have would strongly recommend is environment. Like minded places, such as this forum here for all of us, can be far more healing than any stuffy office where opinions should be left at the door before entering. You'll certainly feel far more welcome to be exactly what you should. You.

[Philip027]

Yep, that would mark the time for me to find a different therapist.  If you're not going to believe me when I'm opening up to you about a private aspect of myself, how can I trust you about anything else concerning my mental health?

[Abigail Rose]

Hello, I think you have made an unusual discovery here. Perhaps you do not see it yet. If you know how you feel, and I presume you are quite confident with it, then what lesson is here to be learned? You already know you. You ultimately know with whom you feel comfortable or not. You seem to dislike this person for casting doubt on literally what makes you (and actually every one of us to some degree) who you are. Thus you already have determined this person has a closed and unwavering point of view, which seems to make you uneasy and uncomfortable. This person will only respond to you the way they are designed to and it is not likely you will ever receive the answer or validation you deserve. Therapy is for reflection upon oneself with a guide to help if you stray from the healing path. It is your journey to discover your own life and love it or not. This person has taken the whole road away and that is sad. I would suggest many things but one which I have would strongly recommend is environment. Like minded places, such as this forum here for all of us, can be far more healing than any stuffy office where opinions should be left at the door before entering. You'll certainly feel far more welcome to be exactly what you should. You.

[HikaruBG]

Yeah, I think that you should show all of the scientific evidences and studies. (for both Asexuality and Homosexuality) to her. Don't just show her the peer reviewed journal or the DSM-V but also all the historical evidences and the observed behaviour in animals. Tell her that she failed at her job so much, that a client of hers has to point out the glaring issue of her mindset and just drop her after that.

If you do this, you might save a lot of suffering to other people as well.

 

The issue with therapists and these kinds of experts is that they too can have their own biases in regarding this and many people will use their "expert opinion" to prove that homosexuality (or any sexuality different from heterosexuality) is wrong or whatever. That's called appeal to authority, btw.

 

This is why I don't trust people like this. They can't differentiate mental disorders from  legitimate experinces/feelings, so they end up pathologozing people left and right just because they can or because they think that this isn't "normal".

[iwouldrathercuddle]

Thank you all for your kind responses. I am sad and so nervous. I'm a people pleaser and i find this so hard lol. It's easy for me to stand up for those things in general, because when some random person would come to me and tell me what my therapist told me i'd just completely judge them as an ass and that's it. My social circle is small (for that reason lol) and they all agree with me in certain things that i find important. But this is different and weird. I've been seeing my therapist for 3 months now and i just didn't think she would think that way. I didn't expect it. Sexuality wasn't a big part of the therapy until now because it isn't important to me (haha) and me potentially identifying as ace is a "new" thing (not really but the label and stuff). I go see her in 3 hours and i am so nervous

[iwouldrathercuddle]

@Lichley thanks so much. I did a little digging and things are more clear now.

 

The main reason why my therapist thinks i might not be asexual is that i haven't been touched a lot as far as i can rembember. I'm an adoptee and my adoptive mom just rarely hugged me (a few times a year, maybe) or touched me in another way. My therapists is saying that maybe that was no different when i was a child/ a baby (all the years i can't rembember). Ok so gar so good. Also, she didn't talk to me about sex or contraception at all, i did that with my friends. My source was them and idk whatever i would like hear or see in the world and i though sex is just smth you do so i did it. I started early with it (14) because i was in love all the time lol. So this is the second reason for my therapist: I had sex and now i don't. 

 

But i don't suffer. I'm not missing anything and that's the biggie for me. Why would i label myself as sick when i'm not hurt. And this just adds up - the second i found out that i don't have to have sex in a relationship i more or less stopped. 

 

And whatever's going on with me, my therapist has no right to just shut one of the options down bcs she thinks it's not real or smth. I feel better prepeared now

[iwouldrathercuddle]

UPDATE

 

So i went to see my therapist.

 

What i said:  I told her that i feel very uncomfortable talking to her about my sexuality knowing that she doesn't accept asexuality as a non-pathological orientation. I told her that i think (know) that her assumption about asexuals having issues leading to said asexuality is wrong and made me feel very misunderstood. She can't help me if she thinks asexuality isn't real. I straight up asked her what she thinks about other sexual orientations like homosexuality. I specificly asked what she meant last session when she was saying that she knows homosexual people who "have reasons for being homosexual". I told her about the difference between psychological sexual disfunctions, which can be diagnosed, and asexuality as a sexual orientation, which can't be diagnosed since it's not an illness.

 

What she said: Her response was, well, what i expected. She told me that "of course" she is not against/ doesn't mind homosexuality. The homosexuals with their specific reasons are two men she knows who got abused by their mothers and who say about themselves that this has something to do with their sexual orientation. Then she went on about Sigmund Freud (the dude who invented the oedipal complex) and how our relationships with our parents can effect our sexuality before puberty. She added that it's a very old theory, however i think it's pretty much completely outdated (sure, trauma does shit to people but those are individual cases which shouldn't be generalized). Well. She told me that since she diagnosed me with depression and the lack of sexual desire can be a side effect of that she thinks that it could be a possibility that this might me the case with me. But since i made my point pretty clear (i don't disagree with that but i need her to take the option of asexuality seriously) she agreed to do some research, read about asexuality and getting back to me with what she learned. 

 

So. I'm not very happy but it's ok. I see better where she's coming from now. She belives in weird outdated depth-psychology theories, so it seems. I'll give her the chance to catch up and do some research about asexuality. I told her: If she comes to me and tells me asexuality is a sexual orientation and it might be mine, and if it's mine, that's totally cool, then i'll be willing to talk to here about my own sexuality again. If not, we'll see.

 

[mausgrau]

Oh wow, there are still Freudian depth therapists roaming this earth, who'da thunk it. Well, not that surprising, I guess, since flat-earthers haven't quite gotten around to giving up either. 

 

Maybe her approach does have some quaint old-fashioned charm to recommend it? I hope you continue to find therapy with her useful, and if not, I wish you success in searching a new therapist who'd be a better fit for you.

[iwouldrathercuddle]

@Whatsis hahahaha love you. 

[Back to Avalon]

If she doesn't come around on sexual orientation, and if Germany has Google reviews or a site where people can review their doctors, you might post about your experiences so other members of the LGBTQIA+ community know not to go to her.

[Qiana]

On 10/27/2019 at 6:09 PM, iwouldrathercuddle said:

 Last week i tried talking to my therapist about my (a)sexuality. She didn't react very nicely. She told me that she is no specialist but that she generally thinks sexual desire is something everyone has in one way or  another and if someone doesn't have it, there will be probably some specific psychological reasons for it (so she basically told me it could be "changed" or "fixed", right?). The first thing she said was "maybe you just hadn't the right sexual experiences yet". She didn't know what "LGBTQ+" is, i told her that Ace is a spectrum and that it is a sexual orientation just like being homosexual, and that it's kind of weird to use arguments like "you haven't had the proper experience yet" or "something is wrong with you" on someone's sexual orientation. I even explained to her that this exact same arguments were (and still are) a huge part of the discrimination towards different sexual orientations in the past. She continued with telling me that she knows homosexual people who (so she thinks) have specific reasons for being homosexuell, whatever that was supposed to mean. I didn't ask for more info. All in all she kind of just didn't want to admit that sexual orientation is not something you choose. I mean, yes, in my case i am not sure what comes from trouble in my past and what's just me being me. But she kept telling me that she's seeing a few possible things that could have affected my sexuality but she not once told me that if i'm just not into sex, that would be okay. I feel misunderstood and the more i think about it the more cruel all the stuff she said seems. I almost can't belive that i didn't just walk out on her. I am a very political person and fighting for the rights of LGBTQ+ people is part of that. But she kept talking about me and my past and it was all kind of a blurr. Also, i wasn't prepeared for some political discussion with my therapist. I really don't need to know what she thinks about certain things (so i thought), but now i feel kind of uncomfortable talking to her about my sexuality again. This all happened last week and tomorrow i go see her again. I have no idea how to bring this up, there are so many ways. I could just ask her wtf she thinks about the legal rights of LGBTQ+ people in our society, because i'm kind of angry lol. I could choose a more productive way and just tell her that i didn't feel very comfortable with her not willing to accept that i (and many other people) just don't like sex. Maybe it's because of the stuff she learned, maybe it's outdated? We're doing some kind of depth phychology. Maybe i'll do some research.

Any advice on how i should bring all of this up?

So I am a therapist and I would definitely bring it up to her that she made you feel uncomfortable. Maybe you could print out an article you found on asexuality and take it to your next session or maybe email it to her to read before your next session. While she might have her own bias or limitation to believing that your sexuality is valid that shouldn't be her prevailing opinion because she is supposed to be neutral as a therapist. But I live in America and here we are taught never to try and push our views onto our clients and meet our clients where they are. So even if a client came in and said to me I think cheating on my wife is okay regardless of how I feel about their cheating I'm supposed to meet them where they are and "go along" with them while challenging them on why they feel it's okay and how they think it makes their partner feel and such and so on. Basically therapist (to me) are supposed to just be sounding board for you to toss thoughts around with and for them to go tell me more about that how did you come to that conclusion and if those are your feelings what does that mean for you in whatever context you're discussing (i hope that makes sense). If not I'd be more than welcome to discuss it further with you in dm 

[Snow in the background]

On 10/28/2019 at 6:04 PM, iwouldrathercuddle said:

UPDATE

 

So i went to see my therapist.

 

What i said:  I told her that i feel very uncomfortable talking to her about my sexuality knowing that she doesn't accept asexuality as a non-pathological orientation. I told her that i think (know) that her assumption about asexuals having issues leading to said asexuality is wrong and made me feel very misunderstood. She can't help me if she thinks asexuality isn't real. I straight up asked her what she thinks about other sexual orientations like homosexuality. I specificly asked what she meant last session when she was saying that she knows homosexual people who "have reasons for being homosexual". I told her about the difference between psychological sexual disfunctions, which can be diagnosed, and asexuality as a sexual orientation, which can't be diagnosed since it's not an illness.

 

What she said: Her response was, well, what i expected. She told me that "of course" she is not against/ doesn't mind homosexuality. The homosexuals with their specific reasons are two men she knows who got abused by their mothers and who say about themselves that this has something to do with their sexual orientation. Then she went on about Sigmund Freud (the dude who invented the oedipal complex) and how our relationships with our parents can effect our sexuality before puberty. She added that it's a very old theory, however i think it's pretty much completely outdated (sure, trauma does shit to people but those are individual cases which shouldn't be generalized). Well. She told me that since she diagnosed me with depression and the lack of sexual desire can be a side effect of that she thinks that it could be a possibility that this might me the case with me. But since i made my point pretty clear (i don't disagree with that but i need her to take the option of asexuality seriously) she agreed to do some research, read about asexuality and getting back to me with what she learned. 

 

So. I'm not very happy but it's ok. I see better where she's coming from now. She belives in weird outdated depth-psychology theories, so it seems. I'll give her the chance to catch up and do some research about asexuality. I told her: If she comes to me and tells me asexuality is a sexual orientation and it might be mine, and if it's mine, that's totally cool, then i'll be willing to talk to here about my own sexuality again. If not, we'll see.

 

Hello!

 

To be honest I wouldn't like to disclose so much about myself at this point, but I can tell you that I know something about psychology and psychotherapy.

 

Congratulations for making your point clear. My kind advice would be to always be honest and tell your therapist on the spot when something about her attitude or ideas affects or disappoints you. I know it's hard and that you described yourself as "a people pleaser", but believe me, this is a way to improve your therapy sessions and to develop a skill you can use outside of therapy. When you feel that something disturbs the personal relationship you have with her, just tell her that, at that moment. Try to give feedback whenever you feel the need to communicate something so that she can acknowledge your needs.

 

The truth is that therapists can actually learn a lot about themselves and about the human mind (a term not comprehensively defined by neither science, nor philosophy) from their clients.

 

Invalidating a client's asexuality is a big mistake, indeed. Especially because it's mentioned in DSM V as @Lichley sad. However, human psychology is a very complex topic of discussion; so complex that every therapist is bound to make mistakes at some point.

 

I don't try to excuse her, but I see in this situation an opportunity to grow for both of you two.

 

I hope my message helps.

 

I wish you good luck in your therapy and all the best in your personal life.