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MichaelTannock

What are your Invalidation Policy concerns?

Poll on Invalidation Policy concerns  

49 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. What are your concerns with the Invalidation Policy?

    • People won't have the freedom to tell others that their identity is wrong.
      11
    • People won't be able to suggest other labels for others to consider.
      19
    • People will be disciplined for merely relaying information.
      27
    • "Asexual" will lose meaning leading to the disintegration of the community.
      29
    • Asexuality will not be taken seriously by outside communities.
      27
    • It won't be possible to create resources to help others understand Asexuality.
      12
    • Education will be impossible without clear definitions.
      32
    • AVEN is not supporting a large section of the Asexual population.
      22
    • The term "Asexual" has become a status symbol so people to stop exploring.
      20
    • AVEN will stop improving its resources for fear of invalidating people.
      18
    • More pressing problems will be ignored to focus on stopping invalidation.
      19
    • Not concerned.
      11


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Sally
On 10/30/2019 at 9:51 AM, KrysLost said:

ooo this thread is just what i need. 

 

 

I recently got an official warning for telling someone they weren't ace (there was more for a different subject so it's not like it was entirely undeserved). Said person thought that it was gate-keeping to not allow those who rarely felt sexual attraction to ID as ace. This person is grey-ace (grey-sexual is the better and more accurate term however I  understand the dislike of the emphasis on sexual). I even suggested another "label". Yet I got a warning for telling the truth. 

The ToS says we're not supposed to tell people what they are or what they aren't.  That has nothing to do with what you think the "truth" is.  

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KrysLost
8 hours ago, Sally said:

The ToS says we're not supposed to tell people what they are or what they aren't.  That has nothing to do with what you think the "truth" is.  

Even if their blatantly wrong? It wasn't so much about what the person was but more of what asexuality was. I was also arguing for the definition of it (aka not grey-sexuality also this person said they had experienced sexual attraction) and that it was the COMPLETE lack of an orientation. The world's not going to end if they ID as ace but you cannot change a definition of a word to suit your needs. It defeats the purpose. That's why there's more accurate terms. Even then asexuality is more than a subset label, it is it's own thing. I do not see a problem with speaking up as long as you aren't rude about it and it's reasonable. (keep in mind this was in a chatroom with a person who's been an aven member for a long time. they know what asexuality is.) I'm also not going to debate you on this so do not bother.

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CBC

I checked like 90% of the options. 😂

 

You guys do you, that's my overall stance from now on. "Invalidation" is the reason I get warned pretty much every time and if I do it again it'll earn myself a third warning and a subsequent ban (yes, I realise I have... politeness issues to work on), so bicker amongst yourselves.

 

With that said, my concerns can be summed up as extending the definition to whatever the heck anyone wants it to be is invalidating to a handful of asexual folks who mean a lot to me personally and to the experiences of other, er (there is no exceptionally polite way to put this) actual asexuals. It's damaging to the community as a whole when nothing means anything. It's also, in a slightly roundabout way, somewhat offensive to sexual people. As a sexual person myself, to read comments from self-proclaimed asexuals that describe the same things I experience but then go on to say they're not sexual is like... huh? It almost invariably sounds like they're saying they're better somehow and there's something distasteful about being sexual. It also encourages people who may be dealing with other issues (mental illness, physical illness, ASD, trauma, harmful religious indoctrination, etc. -- and there's nothing wrong with struggling with any of those things, just to be clear) to embrace a label that may not reflect who they actually are and then close the book on self-exploration. And I can promise you, not living your life as who you actually are is miserable as fuck. Telling someone they're asexual when it's pretty clear they're not and encouraging them to embrace misinformation, or not giving them information, is not helping them.

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Philip027
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With that said, my concerns can be summed up as extending the definition to whatever the heck anyone wants it to be is invalidating to a handful of asexual folks who mean a lot to me personally and to the experiences of, er (there is no exceptionally polite way to put this) actual asexuals. It's damaging to the community as a whole when nothing means anything. It's also, in a slightly roundabout way, somewhat offensive to sexual people. As a sexual person myself, to read comments from self-proclaimed asexuals that describe the same things I experience but then go on to say they're not sexual is like... huh? It almost invariably sounds like they're saying they're better somehow and there's something distasteful about being sexual. It also encourages people who may be dealing with other issues (mental illness, physical illness, ASD, trauma, harmful religious indoctrination, etc. -- and there's nothing wrong with struggling with any of those things, just to be clear) to embrace a label that may not reflect who they actually are and then close the book on self-exploration. And I can promise you, not living your life as who you actually are is miserable as fuck.

Yep.  I checked everything (literally everything about this is concerning) but I checked #4 and #5 especially hard.

 

When it comes down to it, the reason this is all so tiresome and insulting is that by cracking down so hard on invalidation, they're invalidating people.  Not just any people, but their core audience.  And other than a select few, nobody on the staff (either mods or BOD) seems to realize that.  By this point, I don't think they want to realize it.

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Sally

There's a big difference between

 

"What you've described sounds like asexuality"  =  personal opinion usually informed by experience, observation, and/or reading.

 

and

 

"You are asexual" =  diagnosis of an individual, which AVEN's TOS does not allow.  

 

 

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LeChat
14 minutes ago, CBC said:

...You guys do you, that's my overall stance from now on...

That's what I remind myself; I've learned not to feel too upset or bothered by others' labels, partly because, I think, I also keep in mind that even I don't know whether my own might possibly change in the future (e.g. to romantic ace or demisexual), in case I come across someone who I suddenly feel romantic or sexual feelings for.

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Kimchi Peanut
17 minutes ago, CBC said:

I checked like 90% of the options. 😂

...

With that said, my concerns can be summed up as extending the definition to whatever the heck anyone wants it to be is invalidating to a handful of asexual folks who mean a lot to me personally and to the experiences of other, er (there is no exceptionally polite way to put this) actual asexuals. It's damaging to the community as a whole when nothing means anything. It's also, in a slightly roundabout way, somewhat offensive to sexual people. As a sexual person myself, to read comments from self-proclaimed asexuals that describe the same things I experience but then go on to say they're not sexual is like... huh? It almost invariably sounds like they're saying they're better somehow and there's something distasteful about being sexual. It also encourages people who may be dealing with other issues (mental illness, physical illness, ASD, trauma, harmful religious indoctrination, etc. -- and there's nothing wrong with struggling with any of those things, just to be clear) to embrace a label that may not reflect who they actually are and then close the book on self-exploration. And I can promise you, not living your life as who you actually are is miserable as fuck. Telling someone they're asexual when it's pretty clear they're not and encouraging them to embrace misinformation, or not giving them information, is not helping them.

PRECISELY THIS.

 

I checked almost all of the boxes and think this issue is one of AVEN’s biggest downfalls.

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Snao Cone
10 minutes ago, Sally said:

There's a big difference between

 

"What you've described sounds like asexuality"  =  personal opinion usually informed by experience, observation, and/or reading.

 

and

 

"You are asexual" =  diagnosis of an individual, which AVEN's TOS does not allow.  

 

 

Indeed, as I have never gotten am much as a nudge for wording things like the first example. 

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CBC
22 minutes ago, Sally said:

There's a big difference between

 

"What you've described sounds like asexuality"  =  personal opinion usually informed by experience, observation, and/or reading.

 

and

 

"You are asexual" =  diagnosis of an individual, which AVEN's TOS does not allow.  

 

 

I agree for sure, and my issues usually come up when it's the opposite. Telling someone they're not asexual. (As I said above, I'm aware I have "politeness issues". That's my thing to work on, I am well aware.) Anyway. I don't think I've ever told someone they're definitely asexual, but I've certainly told them that, based on what they've voluntarily told me in their own words, they aren't. It's exasperating sometimes and that's where/why I get myself into trouble. We're telling countless people who are statistically unlikely to be asexual that they are, and it makes a joke of asexuality and leaves the sexual members baffled.

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Anthracite_Impreza

Actually, and this has nothing to do with asexuality, I just remembered I myself had my own identity "banned" because someone found it offensive; someone who, more than likely, isn't even a member of that demographic. I have a bit of a bone to pick with this, seeing as we're on the subject.

 

I use the word "chav" a lot - to describe things and to describe myself. I'm about as stereotypical chav as you can get in many aspects and I refuse to allow the negative connotations to cloud the fact I'm proud of those things - living on a council estate, being working class, being rough, wearing trackies, hoodies and trainers all the time, modded cars, playing EDM loud - among other things. It's taken me two decades to finally stop pulling myself down for where I live and now I have someone tell me I can't ID myself that way because it's offensive? I've literally had my identity invalidated and no one bothered asking me my side, they were just like "the one who cries offence is always right!".

 

I know you're gonna say I should have appealed it but it wasn't a warn, it was a nudge with the caveat "you say it again you'll get an official warning". I did make my opinion quite clear to the person I got the nudge off, and got no response, which seems to me to say "tough titties". Can I get some feedback on this? Cos from what I see it seems to be a case of, the one who shouts "invalidation" or "offensive" loudest, wins.

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MichaelTannock
9 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Can I get some feedback on this?

I'll ask the other Admods about it, and then let you know what they say.

 

EDIT: My Co-mod says they'll PM you.

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FaerieFate
7 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Actually, and this has nothing to do with asexuality, I just remembered I myself had my own identity "banned" because someone found it offensive; someone who, more than likely, isn't even a member of that demographic. I have a bit of a bone to pick with this, seeing as we're on the subject.

 

I use the word "chav" a lot - to describe things and to describe myself. I'm about as stereotypical chav as you can get in many aspects and I refuse to allow the negative connotations to cloud the fact I'm proud of those things - living on a council estate, being working class, being rough, wearing trackies, hoodies and trainers all the time, modded cars, playing EDM loud - among other things. It's taken me two decades to finally stop pulling myself down for where I live and now I have someone tell me I can't ID myself that way because it's offensive? I've literally had my identity invalidated and no one bothered asking me my side, they were just like "the one who cries offence is always right!".

 

I know you're gonna say I should have appealed it but it wasn't a warn, it was a nudge with the caveat "you say it again you'll get an official warning". I did make my opinion quite clear to the person I got the nudge off, and got no response, which seems to me to say "tough titties". Can I get some feedback on this? Cos from what I see it seems to be a case of, the one who shouts "invalidation" or "offensive" loudest, wins.

I'll look into it and PM you when I'm on

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Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte
6 hours ago, CBC said:

I checked like 90% of the options. 😂

 

You guys do you, that's my overall stance from now on. "Invalidation" is the reason I get warned pretty much every time and if I do it again it'll earn myself a third warning and a subsequent ban (yes, I realise I have... politeness issues to work on), so bicker amongst yourselves.

 

With that said, my concerns can be summed up as extending the definition to whatever the heck anyone wants it to be is invalidating to a handful of asexual folks who mean a lot to me personally and to the experiences of other, er (there is no exceptionally polite way to put this) actual asexuals. It's damaging to the community as a whole when nothing means anything. It's also, in a slightly roundabout way, somewhat offensive to sexual people. As a sexual person myself, to read comments from self-proclaimed asexuals that describe the same things I experience but then go on to say they're not sexual is like... huh? It almost invariably sounds like they're saying they're better somehow and there's something distasteful about being sexual. It also encourages people who may be dealing with other issues (mental illness, physical illness, ASD, trauma, harmful religious indoctrination, etc. -- and there's nothing wrong with struggling with any of those things, just to be clear) to embrace a label that may not reflect who they actually are and then close the book on self-exploration. And I can promise you, not living your life as who you actually are is miserable as fuck. Telling someone they're asexual when it's pretty clear they're not and encouraging them to embrace misinformation, or not giving them information, is not helping them.

No I get that and I made sure to bring that up to the BoD (I think we called it the invalidation vs. elitism issue).  There needs to be a way to explain to a newbie "hey that's kinda elitist" or "sexuals can feel that way too" without being seen as invalidating.  It's part of why I made the "I'm sexual but..." thread and it's also why I'm open about vulvudynia (what my actual issue turned out to be...surprise, it's a medical thing, not an orientation!) but I also think that's like an ibuprofren for a broken leg.  It's good for the pain for a little bit but it's not going to do much for the actual problem.

 

What we could use is a thread about what is and isn't acceptable when correcting newbies.  I've flat out told people "if this is upsetting you then you should see a doctor" or "this situation seems beyond my paygrade, it might be useful to see a therapist to rule out X", or "I'm sexual and I feel this way sometimes too.  Some sexuals don't want to sleep with their boyfriends all the time either and I'm one of them.  I just wanted to clarify that but your label is your choice".

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CBC
1 hour ago, fallspicedefinitiondebate said:

It's part of why I made the "I'm sexual but..." thread and it's also why I'm open about vulvudynia (what my actual issue turned out to be...surprise, it's a medical thing, not an orientation!)

I love that thread and I'm so glad you made it and it got pinned. :)  And that's why I'm open about my shit too. I came here 15+ years ago as a socially-isolated, depressed, severely anorexic 19-year-old with a handful of minor interactions with members of the opposite sex. Much of sexuality didn't make a lot of sense to me. Well no shit, my hormones were bottomed out due to the eating disorder, my emotions were fucked, and I had very limited experience with other people. And now I'm coming up on 35 and... well, my mental health still sucks and I have a lot of physical issues, but I'm not on death's doorstep from malnutrition and I have enough life experience to realise that I connect better with women sexually/romantically than men. And I'm open as fuck about all of that, because I know there are other people who come here who are unwell in one way or another and/or inexperienced rather than asexual, and they need to know that's ok. It's fine to be a messed-up sexual who's clueless about themselves. And you don't have to decide what you are at 16.

 

Anyway yeah, I really appreciate that thread and I keep wishing it could somehow be more prominent than it is. Hanging around AVEN can make sexual people feel weird and insecure as well. Like... my depression has been somewhat worse again lately, and several weeks ago I started mentally freaking out that I was "lying" to AVEN by identifying as sexual since I went from normal level libido/sexual interest to feeling more like "Sex? Eh, what's that?" That sounds ridiculous and I know that, but still, that's where my mind went. I assume that reaction is a product of my very own specific past confusion. (In all honesty, I've also had moments of "Wow ok, am I some sort of obsessed hypersexual who places too much importance on sex?" just because of periods of high interest and, well, the fact that it is important to me. Also bloody ridiculous, because the answer is nowhere near being yes.)

 

Anyway. Personal ramblings aside. Yeah, a thread about the best ways to offer corrections and information to newbies could be potentially useful. I don't know that people will always, uh, decide to follow it, but at least it makes it crystal clear what's ok/best and what's entirely unacceptable, and they know what they're getting into if they choose a different posting style.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
6 hours ago, CBC said:

it'll earn myself a third warning and a subsequent ban

Off topic, but I think they updated the ToS recently so a third ban can still be revoked after a certain amount of time if you put in a proper request and explanation etc as to why you want to be back on AVEN. I think they review your membership history and stuff to see if you should be allowed back. Something like that anyway, and I can't speak for admods but you have a really longstanding place in this community and are loved by so many people here so.. yeah I'll just say that.  I'm not sure how many people saw that update and wouldn't want you to get banned and think all hope was lost!!! 

 

Sorry for off topic :cake:

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CBC
1 minute ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

Off topic, but I think they updated the ToS recently so a third ban can still be revoked after a certain amount of time if you put in a proper request and explanation etc as to why you want to be back on AVEN. I think they review your membership history and stuff to see if you should be allowed back. Something like that anyway, and I can't speak for admods but you have a really longstanding place in this community and are loved by so many people here so.. yeah I'll just say that.  I'm not sure how many people saw that update and wouldn't want you to get banned and think all hope was lost!!! 

 

Sorry for off topic :cake:

Oh yeah I read about that shortly before my suspension. I forget the details. Something changed, though. Couldn't you always request a review after a certain amount of time? Now it's automatically a six-month ban instead of a permaban? (No one quote me on that please, haha.)

 

(And thanks, Ficto. :))

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LeChat
30 minutes ago, CBC said:

...Like... my depression has been somewhat worse again lately, and several weeks ago I started mentally freaking out that I was "lying" to AVEN by identifying as sexual since I went from normal level libido/sexual interest to feeling more like "Sex? Eh, what's that?" That sounds ridiculous and I know that, but still, that's where my mind went. I assume that reaction is a product of my very own specific past confusion...

:) That doesn't sound ridiculous to me; medical professionals have mentioned that it's common for some people's libido to fluctuate during the month (due to the menstrual cycle).

 

https://flo.health/menstrual-cycle/sex/sexual-health/sex-and-menstrual-cycle-are-they-connected

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CBC
Just now, LeChat said:

:) That doesn't sound ridiculous to me; medical professionals have mentioned that it's common for some people's libido to fluctuate during the month (due to the menstrual cycle).

 

https://flo.health/menstrual-cycle/sex/sexual-health/sex-and-menstrual-cycle-are-they-connected

You know what? That's the funny thing, my libido seems to have zero to do with my cycle haha. I've seen sexuals and asexuals alike mention that (since many aces masturbate) and it's totally a thing for loads of people. Mine seems related to other (still fairly obvious) things like my depression, my overall physical health and my connection to my partner.

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Snao Cone
54 minutes ago, CBC said:

I came here 15+ years ago as a socially-isolated, depressed, severely anorexic 19-year-old with a handful of minor interactions with members of the opposite sex. Much of sexuality didn't make a lot of sense to me. Well no shit, my hormones were bottomed out due to the eating disorder, my emotions were fucked, and I had very limited experience with other people. And now I'm coming up on 35 and... well, my mental health still sucks and I have a lot of physical issues, but I'm not on death's doorstep from malnutrition and I have enough life experience to realise that I connect better with women sexually/romantically than men. And I'm open as fuck about all of that, because I know there are other people who come here who unwell in one way or another and/or inexperienced rather than asexual, and they need to know that's ok. It's fine to be a messed-up sexual who's clueless about themselves. And you don't have to decide what you are at 16.

I think experienced members sharing stories like this is important so people who are new to this whole thing see a diverse range of experiences and perspectives. This is really the best way to learn about sexuality as a whole, imo, because genuine human experiences tell us things that neither textbooks nor entertainment contain. 

 

But...think of how long that took you, and think of how much you went through before coming to be who you are now. Think about the blind spots you had for so many years. The same applies to me, for how long I thought I was sexual when I in fact was not. The posts we make here aren't going to sink in with everybody the first time around. If people doubt that our experiences are relevant to what they're going through, then perhaps it's better for everyone that we just wash our hands of it after that point, instead of aggressively pursuing further discussion until the other person changes their mind.

 

I know this contradicts what some members think counts as "education" but, I mean, how much of what gets us through our days was taught in a classroom? How would superior-subordinate instruction style teaching be helpful for spreading accurate awareness of asexuality? That's what gets me about some of the concerns about what the "E" in AVEN could possibly stand for if you can't point at someone and tell them they don't count as asexual. People need more time to be wrong about themselves. You and I both took over a decade to realize how wrong we were, and we're not stupid people.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
11 minutes ago, Snao van der Cone said:

You and I both took over a decade to realize how wrong we were, and we're not stupid people.

It was about the same amount of time (give or take a few years either side) for Serran and myself too. It took years of confusion, questioning, and exploration before I could finally fully understand and accept that I'm not actually asexual, I'm just some random type of not-very-sexual sexual person who also has a sexual pain disorder, a weird libido pattern, and who desires bizarre sexual stuff when I do desire it at all :P

 

But posts from Mysticus, Skullery, Sally, Tele, and CBC were all really important in helping me get a better understanding of both asexuality and sexuality.. and that's from someone whose probably had sex with over a 1000 people Y_Y has had a 5-year-long sexual relationship, and has two kids. Sometimes no matter how much sexual experience you have, it can still take a long time to work out who you are. I can't even imagine trying to figure all of this out if you're a young person who has never even had a relationship or anything.. literally all you would have to go on are the experiences of others which is why it's so important that said experiences are shared in a place like this. Sometimes that's literally all someone has to try to figure themselves out initially until they can get more of their own experience if they are able to do that (and when it comes to sexual stuff, a lot of aces don't want to try to get their own experience with that, totally understandably!)

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Sally
1 hour ago, Snao van der Cone said:

People need more time to be wrong about themselves. You and I both took over a decade to realize how wrong we were, and we're not stupid people.

It took me almost 40 years.  Asexuality wasn't known then so we fit ourselves (very uncomfortably) into what was known.  

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FaerieFate
2 hours ago, Snao van der Cone said:

People need more time to be wrong about themselves. You and I both took over a decade to realize how wrong we were, and we're not stupid people.

I know everyone else is responding to this, but I recently had to recome out of the pantry (the ace version of coming out of the closet because cake). When I first came out and people asked how I know I'm ace, I said I have no libido and I don't wanna screw anyone on sight. I'm still asexual. However, I have a high libido and the idea that sexuals want to screw people on sight is just plain wrong. Thanks @Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) for that clarification from their post when they realized they aren't asexual.

 

I think the concept of sexuality is very confusing because sexuals think that aesthetic attractoin, romantic attraction, sexual attraction, libido, etc is all the same thing. so when you come form that environment to a place like AVEN and we're like "no, that's all different things" it takes a while to sit there and be like "so that's my romantic attraction. That's my libido. That's my aesthetic attraction. Wait, where's my sexual attraction?" Which means, people may come on being wrong, and they may be wrong for a while. And that's okay. If we continue to share correct information and our experiences, they'll eventually realize that they aren't the same and they may feel more like the sexuals on here.

 

However, if we go around yelling at them and telling them they're wrong, they'll just dig their heal in more. That's just the human condition. That's just how people work. We're stupid and stubborn. It works a lot better with a more gentle touch and sharing information.

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Philip027
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However, if we go around yelling at them and telling them they're wrong, they'll just dig their heal in more. That's just the human condition. That's just how people work. We're stupid and stubborn. It works a lot better with a more gentle touch and sharing information.

You're misrepresenting most of the people trying to correct incorrect information.  Most of the time it isn't "yelling" at them, or at the very least it doesn't start out that way.  It doesn't matter, because most people will dig their heels in anyway.  That's when the vitriol tends to start.  And ultimately, this "policy" means that the side with the correct information is fighting the losing battle, because it gets written off as "invalidating"

 

Since we're talking about the "human condition", let's make one thing perfectly clear -- most people hate being told they're wrong, no matter how politely or indirectly it's done.  The thing is, that still doesn't stop them from being wrong.  It doesn't mean they should be coddled and told that they're right instead.  That would just be an education fail.

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FaerieFate
1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

Since we're talking about the "human condition", let's make one thing perfectly clear -- most people hate being told they're wrong, no matter how politely or indirectly it's done.  The thing is, that still doesn't stop them from being wrong.  It doesn't mean they should be coddled and told that they're right instead.  That would just be an education fail.

The intention may not be to yell, but this is the internet. I could say whatever I want, you don't know if I'm being sarcastic, happy, serious, mad, whatever. Because you can't read tone. That's why admods always say to be careful of what you say and how you word things.

 

On that topic, no one is saying you tell people that they're right. If I say, "I'm asexual and I want to jump everyone I see." No one is saying you have to nod and reply, "Yes, Fae. You are asexual." We're saying you can't say, "You aren't asexual, and you can't identify as such." If you said, "You know, that's not how I see asexuality. Here's some resources." or "Have you tried the identity pansexual? You might find that fits you better. Here's some info." Then you aren't invalidating them. You're still disagreeing with them. You're definitely not telling them that they're right. You're educating.

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Philip027
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On that topic, no one is saying you tell people that they're right. If I say, "I'm asexual and I want to jump everyone I see." No one is saying you have to nod and reply, "Yes, Fae. You are asexual." We're saying you can't say, "You aren't asexual, and you can't identify as such."

And I think that's problematic and very detrimental to visibility and education, because that clearly goes against what asexuality is and I feel people should be able to point that out.

 

Quote

If you said, "You know, that's not how I see asexuality. Here's some resources." or "Have you tried the identity pansexual? You might find that fits you better. Here's some info." Then you aren't invalidating them. You're still disagreeing with them. You're definitely not telling them that they're right. You're educating.

It's still essentially saying the same thing and has usually been received the same way: "You're wrong."

 

I don't understand the insistence on pussyfooting around the issue.
 

Most of us do provide the resources/info btw; it's just ignored and/or misinterpreted, because of course it is when the whole root of the issue is people thinking that it's possible to want sex with people but somehow that doesn't equate to being sexually attracted to them.

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Serran

 

 

6 hours ago, FaerieFate said:

 

I think the concept of sexuality is very confusing because sexuals think that aesthetic attractoin, romantic attraction, sexual attraction, libido, etc is all the same thing. so when you come form that environment to a place like AVEN and we're like "no, that's all different things" it takes a while to sit there and be like "so that's my romantic attraction. That's my libido. That's my aesthetic attraction. Wait, where's my sexual attraction?" Which means, people may come on being wrong, and they may be wrong for a while. And that's okay. If we continue to share correct information and our experiences, they'll eventually realize that they aren't the same and they may feel more like the sexuals on here.

Mmm. These things can be linked for sexuals, but you're making generalizations about us that are inaccurate for many. A lot of say heterosexual people I know can appreciate a beautiful person of their own gender (aesthetic) and they totally get it isn't sexual attraction, they just don't tend to use the vocabularly... just say yeah shes beautiful without shame or fear of it meaning they are lesbian or something. Or the gay man that goes "Girl, I wish I was straight because you are hot" ... you can totally see someone is very appealing visually without feeling it sexually, even for sexuals. 

 

Also, some sexuals can and do experience libido where they just want to get off and not include a person. Others always would prefer to include a person. Some are OK including a person they would say they aren't attracted to but is willing and they are horny (which, this being common enough is one reason I find "attraction" a difficult thing to judge by). So, libido without attraction is understandable and relatable just again tend to not use the vocabulary. 

 

Romantic and sexual are the two that tend to be linked for most and that is where the biggest confusion lies. Because, to many sexuals a romantic relationship without sex would be hollow and not feel romantic. 

 

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KrysLost
17 hours ago, CBC said:

I checked like 90% of the options. 😂

 

You guys do you, that's my overall stance from now on. "Invalidation" is the reason I get warned pretty much every time and if I do it again it'll earn myself a third warning and a subsequent ban (yes, I realise I have... politeness issues to work on), so bicker amongst yourselves.

You and me both. I just got out of a suspension LOL. It's not so much the new people I'm going on about but people who KNOW they (can) experience sexual attraction and still try to say their ace. By that definition you are invalidating so many asexuals. 

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CBC
4 minutes ago, KrysLost said:

You and me both. I just got out of a suspension LOL. 

Welcome back to IVEN. Erm, AVEN. :P 

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GlamRocker
18 hours ago, Sally said:

There's a big difference between

 

"What you've described sounds like asexuality"  =  personal opinion usually informed by experience, observation, and/or reading.

 

and

 

"You are asexual" =  diagnosis of an individual, which AVEN's TOS does not allow.  

 

 

These are the posts I got a warning for:

 

POST ONE:

What you describe is not asexuality but your personal feelings towards the act of having sex. These are SEX FEELINGS... SEX PREFERENCES... not asexuality. This is the same stuff all sexual partners go through with each other when figuring out how to best please each other sexually, to be the best lover they can be to their partners. NOT asexuality. An asexual doesn't describe their preferences to help their partner make BETTER LOVE TO THEM. Because the preference of an asexual is... DRUM ROLL... NO SEXUAL ACTIVITAYYYYYS

 

I didn't say "you are not asexual" in this post... just "what you describe here is not asexuality."

 

POST TWO:

I'm sorry, but until a person realizes that they actually just don't want to have sex, asexuality as an identity isn't for you. I didn't understand myself as an asexual or identify as an asexual while I was still having sex... because I believed I wasn't asexual, or else I wouldn't have kept trying to care for sex... I was still looking for my sexuality, I still had faith there was some sexuality to find. Why the HELL would I have identified as asexual during this time? When I wasn't living in any way significantly different than sexual people do?

 

The day identifying as an asexual became clearly correct for me was the day that I finally accepted the fact that I'M NEVER GOING TO CARE FOR SEX NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY.  And so there is NO POINT in trying to "covert" myself anymore. If you really ARE an asexual, you WILL REACH THE SAME POINT. You WILL REALIZE YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE SEX. Why? Because, for some people, ASEXUAL PEOPLE,  sex is NOT ENJOYABLE.

 

If it were, YOU'D BE NO DIFFERENT THAN A SEXUAL PERSON, which means... you ARE a sexual person. Now, if you consider yourself closer to the asexual side than the sexual side (which I make no personal distinction between), no problem, so what? STILL not asexual.  You're gray or demi, or WHATEVER else... but you aren't ASEXUAL. I understand that identifying as gray or demi (or whatever else) communicates useful things to potential partners and the world... but those thing AREN'T ASEXUALITY.

 

Asexuality exists as a concept to portray ONE SIMPLE THING TO THIS WORLD: we DON'T want to have sex. And, YES, We are COMFORTABLE with that. And we don't care IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

 

In the above post, when I say "you" it's not directed at any person in the thread... it's the usual place holder "you" that people will sometimes use in place of the word "one," or "that person," See: I'm sorry, but until a person realizes that they actually just don't want to have sex, asexuality as an identity isn't for THAT PERSON. It's clear when you replace my use of the word "you," that I wasn't actually addressing any particular person in the thread, but speaking of asexuality in a conceptual way... and YET...

 

But the readers can decide for themselves what they think about getting a warning for such posts.

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GlamRocker

I guess the question is, if I'd not made the mistake of speaking so casually (using the word "you" instead of carefully saying  "that person" or "one" instead) WOULD MY POSTS THEN BE OKAY? I still doubt this, HIGHLY... even though, as far as I can tell, they would be within the TOS. And, in fact, ALREADY ARE... I just made a SINGLE poor word choice that maybe allowed people to interpret what I was saying as directed at a particular person?

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