How much love should we give to another?

[bug]

I have long debated this question. There are some relationships or friendships one just shouldn't stay in, particularly if the relationship is abusive (physically, verbally, psychologically). But, should we be aspiring to be more loving in a society which constantly encourages us to leave if we are unhappy, leave if they don't act "right" towards us, and hence totally accepts the high divorce rate. I have known a number of women who simply will not tolerate even slightly bad behaviour in their men - the result being that they are constantly alone. I had a friend leave me just because I once criticised her behaviour! Another threatened to leave me because I once got really angry with her when her behaviour towards me was appalling! Yet I myself, believing my Path in life to be ever more loving, do not leave people at all easily. Can we protect ourselves from the bad behaviour of others (excepting physical or sexual violence) by cultivating a state of unconditional love - and should we even do this? the older I get, the more loving I have become and the more loving and forgiving I want to be. I can't see the point of being anything else. Am I alone in this, or are there others of you out there with the same aspiration?

[Tanwen]

Love unconditionally (in that you accept a person as they are and don't try to change the bits you don't like) but, they should do the same thing.

That doesn't mean you have to accept bad manners, it is after all the behaviour you're objecting to, not the person, and if they choose not to change, then you have to make the decision, accept and stay or leave.

Any relationship (at any level of intimacy) needs to be worked at, and it may be that people are happy to 'give up' too easily. As you said, society encourages us to leave a relationship if we're unhappy.

We're also conditioned to be conscious of our rights, we're not reminded of our responsibilities.

[Calla_Lily]

you can love someone but still leave the relationship. in the case of abuse of any kind, it should not be tolerated. if the abuser is not willing to get help and change, it leaves one with no (healthy) choice but to leave. we teach people how to treat us. if we allow them to treat us poorly, that's what we'll get.

hopefully in healthy relationships, people talk things over and explain what they want and need from each other. people learn to compromise, each gets some of what they want. there are consequences for all behaviors, some good, others undesirable. one consequence of not treating someone with respect is that they say good-bye. no one is perfect and people say hurtful things, do stupid things, but when they apologize and make an effort not to do it again, i think we owe them another chance. i think the big difference is in the attitude. if someone mistreats us and isn't sorry for it, or makes excuses, it makes it difficult to overlook or forgive. if they are genuinely sorry, it's easier to forgive and move forward. kindness and compassion towards each other makes for a softer, gentler world... take a look around! we're all in need of that.

[bug]

I have a long-term friend who I believe has a personality disorder. I know she is aware that when she is tired she talks nonsense and is often impolite or even rude (to me and others). She has said that whatever comes out, she still has the same (good) feelings towards me. We haven't actually discussed the idea (certainty?) that I have, that she has a personality disorder and I don't know if she thinks this is a likelihood or how she would welcome my suggesting this. I do know that she feels she can sort out her own problems and would never consider therapy of any kind, even though therapy was suggested to her by her last boyfriend.

Some of her comments to me suggest a lot of jealousy of me. Some are just rubbish, some are really horrible and hurtful even though I try not to let them hurt me. She is also quite capable of being very selfish and letting me down. So far I have found that even if I get very hurt and/or angry, I soon calm down and forgive her because I believe she cannot help her behaviour. When she is in a good phase, she is lovely, but I suspect that that is when I am doing exactly what she wants. All my friends think I am MAD to have anything to do with her. SHE says I am the most loyal friend she has ever had and that I care about her more than anyone else ever has (and she's had loads of boyfriends etc.) I do think it is important to love her unconditionally, and I think it is THAT which makes me happy in this friendship, rather than what she actually gives me, which is sometimes not a lot!

I am just wondering about any opinions any of you might have. She totally accepts (but does not understand) my asexuality and seems to appreciate my love for her, but says she cannot return it in quite as strong a way. I assume she means because she is heterosexual, but she might mean that she is not that capable of deep love.

Any comments appreciated. Thanks!!

[Ziffler]

I thought I would jump in with a couple observations. May apply or may not.

First like Greybird said, we must accept people for who they are. I have had friends that said they liked me and all the while trying to change me. I dont consider that love of who I am, but love with who they want me to be.

Another observation, I personally could not be friends with someone who treated me disrespectfully. I treat everyone with respect and expect the same in return. SO I dont accept abuse of any kind from friends. Not physical, emotional nor spiritual. The bible says, If you want friends you must first show yourself to be friendly. That goes both ways.

As a friend, if you truely believe her to have a mental problem then it would be a friendly thing to do in pointing it out and trying to get her to get help for herself. She cant be happy if in fact she has no control of herself.

On the other hand, if she is manipulative and uses her mood swings to get what she wants from those around her, then that isnt a mental disorder but a calculated act. Doesn't sound like a friend to me?

I'm not a doctor, but we have a couple members of my extended family that are bi-polar. One minute they are as charming as anyone can be and the next minute they are the devil incarnate. They take medication for their disorder but that only does so much, not a cure. If your friend is bi-polar then she will probably always be hard to get along with, unless their is a medical breakthough.

Not to be taken as advice. Just some observations.

[PollyB]

What the others said - "love" does not necessarily mean absorbing or tolerating endless hurt from the other person. That's bad for her, painful for you, and unhealthy for the friendship. You can choose to hang in there and not write her off, and that's a great thing to do, but you need to be able to say your piece and talk about why you believe she might need professional help, and also how she's hurting you and damaging your friendship. However that conversation goes, you need to respect and take care of yourself, because you're worth it. (Sorry, I HATE how that phrase has been taken over by shampoo advertising...)

[brigie]

I also agree with your statements about abuse, but I also beleive that on top of love a person's beliefs play a major role in their level of commitment. I find myself in a situation where I knew there were some odd things about me but I did not realize I was asexual until after I was married. Unfortunately (for her) my wife is a very passionate woman, but I have no interest in that direction. As has been noted in other posts I would probably consider myself a romantic asexual, which is close but not what my wife needs / wants. The worst is that in all other phases of my life I can force myself to do the most disagreeable things but when it comes to intercourse I have dropped the ball more times than I can count. As a result, my wife and I have spent many a sleepless night and silent day as we each dealt with our frustrations. Neither believe that divorce is an option, which leaves us in a difficult situation. We both love each other very much and in all other aspects of our life we have for the most part an ideal relationship. Right now I am dealing with the realization that as her partner it is wrong and selfish of me to deny her the things she needs. When I agreed to marry her I understood what that involved and I need to fulfill my side of the vows. Obiviously it is a two way street and some compromise is needed from both parties, but without commitment everything will fall apart. We both want to make this work and I am with you I would love to see others who are in the same or similar situations succeed as well. I really believe that if a sexual and asexual are in a comminted relationship they can find enough common ground to make it work. This is actually one of the main reasons I am on this site... My wife suggested it as a forum to find others like me (actually she found it to try to better understand what I am thinking and feeling) where I can maybe get help addressing some of the feelings and issues I am dealing with. As you can see I am new here and maybe a little starry-eyed, but I want to toss my hat in your camp.

[cijay]

I have long debated this question. There are some relationships or friendships one just shouldn't stay in, particularly if the relationship is abusive (physically, verbally, psychologically). But, should we be aspiring to be more loving in a society which constantly encourages us to leave if we are unhappy, leave if they don't act "right" towards us, and hence totally accepts the high divorce rate. I have known a number of women who simply will not tolerate even slightly bad behaviour in their men - the result being that they are constantly alone. I had a friend leave me just because I once criticised her behaviour! Another threatened to leave me because I once got really angry with her when her behaviour towards me was appalling! Yet I myself, believing my Path in life to be ever more loving, do not leave people at all easily. Can we protect ourselves from the bad behaviour of others (excepting physical or sexual violence) by cultivating a state of unconditional love - and should we even do this? the older I get, the more loving I have become and the more loving and forgiving I want to be. I can't see the point of being anything else. Am I alone in this, or are there others of you out there with the same aspiration?

I'm cautious about being loving now. Sorta'...I do go into things loving someone but if they betray my trust, that's it. I'll still be on a friendship basis with them (unless they're just nasty people) but they don't get my full trust again.

Forgiving, I always have to work at. I use Kim Phuc as my inspiration. She's the "little girl" from the Vietnam war picture who was running naked up the street. She forgave the people who did that to her. If she can forgive that, I can forgive anything.

[Ziffler]

Throwing out Abuse, Violence and Sexual Misconduct.

Yes. The ideal is to love thy neighbor as thyself. Love your enemies. Love those who persecute you. In all things love.

So yes. Love is the ideal. I do find that as I get older, I am becoming more tolerant and forgiving of people. But I am not there yet.

It is very difficult to love someone that talks about you behind your back.

It is very hard to love someone that stabs you behind your back.

It is very hard to love someone that is mean to the ones that you love.

It is very hard to love those who don't take your advice and go on hurting themselves.

It is hard to always love. I know because I can't.

When someone hurts me or mine, I hold it against them till the day they die and sometimes long after that. It's not right. I am supposed to forgive and forget. "LOVE"

So yes, it is the ideal, but until I get my Glorified Body, I doubt that I will ever completly get there.

[Goonie]

like others have said you can love and still be there...from afar if they are abusive. Sometimes all people need to know is that someone will still listen when the world has gone to hell for them. I have on on again off again friend who dumps her garbage on me, feels better and then doesn't talk to me until her garbage is full again. It doesn't mean that I take her garbage and carry it on. I let it go. But I'm still there to listen, or get dumped on. And this is someone who's said some really really nasty things to me.

[< retired >]

In an ideal world, everyone would have infinite resources and thus be able to give freely and generously to everyone with no fear of personal impoverishment. However, reality is very different. So, how do I best allocate my limited resources? I like the great quote by Antoine Saint d'Exupery: "Love does not consist in gazing at each other but looking outward together in the same direction." I'm more willing to allocate my resources to folks looking in the same direction as I am.

[cijay]

When someone hurts me or mine, I hold it against them till the day they die and sometimes long after that. It's not right. I am supposed to forgive and forget. "LOVE"

So yes, it is the ideal, but until I get my Glorified Body, I doubt that I will ever completly get there.

Unfortunately, holding grudges only cripples yourself and not the person who hurt you. They don't give a shit that they hurt you so why let them own you like that for the rest of your days?

Forgiveness isn't a gift you give to someone, it's a gift you give yourself so you can continue as yourself and not let other people own or dictate how you feel.

As for the original question, I can pretty much love unconditionally unless they hurt me but then I just stay away from them so they can't hurt me again. If they come asking why they haven't seen me, I'll tell them and let it be done. I'm very good at forgetting about people I don't like.