Struggling with feeling fake

[Snao Cone]

I don't feel like statuses like race/ethnicity, nationality, political ideology, or religion are cornerstones of my identity (and I certainly don't take pride in them) but I still acknowledge that I live within a system that applies them to me and affects my placement in society. I'm careful not to extend my critique of these things to mean that I'm not part of the system and problems it causes. Like, I'm not going to say I don't benefit from white privilege because I don't believe race is absolute. That would be verifiably wrong. But I will say that I don't believe in holding pride in that. 

 

And that does tie into being nonbinary but still passing as your assigned gender. It's a disadvantage that enby people face, to be assumed as the gender they most closely resemble (usually the one assigned at birth). But it also benefits them by dodging a lot of the harassment, violence, and discrimination that more clearly trans or gender non-conforming people face. Maybe I should look at it the same way I look at how I benefit from my ancestry. Not my choice, not something I agree with, not something I can fix on a macro level...but some choices I make do matter, and can make little differences that help me feel more in control of my life. 

[Noego]

No colour as in black, white

No thought beyond practical thought

No borders as in Wales, Scotland, Ireland...............More universal  

 

 

[anisotrophic]

5 hours ago, Noego said:

Dress male so people assume male.

How funny this worked so well for you. I dressed male for years and nobody even noticed I was cross-dressing, let alone saw me as male. Two months into T and they still don't. maybe I'm wearing the clothes wrong? 🙃

 

---

 

@Snao van der Cone & @Awren & others, I think it's totally fine to be non-binary and nobody sees it. And a history of feeling comfortable doesn't invalidate how you feel now.

 

I didn't always have discomfort; I only started crossdressing in my mid-30s. I'm annoyed about having to pretend "I always thought I was not female" to get treatment, as if who I am now requires me to have *always* felt this way. 🙄

 

Which means you should feel free to explore it.

 

At some point you may get frustrated if you discover -- as I did -- that no matter how you feel about yourselves, that's not how others will see you. That doesn't make pronouns meaningless; they're a really valuable thing for exploring. I super appreciate when people change pronouns: it reduces dysphoria, it's a really nice change to experience. That might not end up being enough, but if it does I think that's great.  

 

It's true you won't face the same challenges. You may have different ones. There's nothing fake about this exploration. It's where I started.

[DuranDuranfan]

2 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

How funny this worked so well for you. I dressed male for years and nobody even noticed I was cross-dressing, let alone saw me as male. Two months into T and they still don't. maybe I'm wearing the clothes wrong. 

There’s a wikihow on passing as male. It’s for FTMs but I think it can work for enbys with a masculine leaning expression.

[anisotrophic]

1 hour ago, DuranDuranfan said:

There’s a wikihow on passing as male. It’s for FTMs but I think it can work for enbys with a masculine leaning expression.

I was being sarcastic. I'm physically transitioning, I don't need tips on how to dress. Simply wearing men's clothes is highly unlikely to cause anyone to think someone with AFAB female physiology is male. I should think that's obvious.

 

People shouldn't feel fake about being non-binary while presenting AGAB, but I think it's also good to have self-awareness that *not* presenting as AGAB is usually quite challenging (either hard to do and/or socially highly transgressive). "I wear men's clothes so people think I'm male"... is like.... ??? no, that doesn't work for anyone that isn't physiologically masculine.

[Snao Cone]

2 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

People shouldn't feel fake about being non-binary while presenting AGAB, but I think it's also good to have self-awareness that *not* presenting as AGAB is usually quite challenging (either hard to do and/or socially highly transgressive). "I wear men's clothes so think I'm male"... is like.... ??? no, that doesn't work for anyone that isn't physiologically masculine.

Good point. I can't imagine how hard and frustrating it is to work through that and find a way to present as you feel. I do really wish I had a more androgynous body to make it easier to express myself, but it's not to the same extent as people with dysphoria. I've been able to work my way through resenting my body and I (almost) accept it now - at least much better than I did 10-20 years ago - but I know that that's really not how it works for trans people, which must make it so much harder to live through and to address.

[anisotrophic]

3 minutes ago, Snao van der Cone said:

Good point. I can't imagine how hard and frustrating it is to work through that and find a way to present as you feel. I do really wish I had a more androgynous body to make it easier to express myself, but it's not to the same extent as people with dysphoria. I've been able to work my way through resenting my body and I (almost) accept it now - at least much better than I did 10-20 years ago - but I know that that's really not how it works for trans people, which must make it so much harder to live through and to address.

Well I don't have physical dysphoria, but the social stuff really got to me and I can't imagine being physically female like I am now in a decade. Dysphoria isn't a requirement IMHO  

 

I'm enjoying the changes! But I'm also glad to have experienced being female.

[DuranDuranfan]

4 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

I was being sarcastic. I'm physically transitioning, I don't need tips on how to dress. Simply wearing men's clothes is highly unlikely to cause anyone to think someone with AFAB female physiology is male. I should think that's obvious.

 

People shouldn't feel fake about being non-binary while presenting AGAB, but I think it's also good to have self-awareness that *not* presenting as AGAB is usually quite challenging (either hard to do and/or socially highly transgressive). "I wear men's clothes so people think I'm male"... is like.... ??? no, that doesn't work for anyone that isn't physiologically masculine.

I dunno. My face and hair length is sort of in between, so when I wear my masculine clothes, I look like a young teenage boy. 
 

I was buying boxer briefs the other day, and I think the cashier read me as a guy because they wanted to make sure I had the right size.

 

Who knows?

[Calligraphette_Coe]

On 10/22/2019 at 7:03 PM, Awren said:

I am non-binary. I know this. The problem is, I look very feminine: petite, delicate facial features, hourglass figure with large breast, etc. Women's clothes are the most comfortable for me due to my shape. I have some medical issues that mean I would probably have problems wearing a binder and I am large enough that a sports bra still leaves me obviously female. For the most part I have made peace with how I look. The problem is, since I look so feminine I feel like a fake when I say that I am non-binary. 

 

Is anyone else non-binary, but looks very much like your assigned gender, or possibly you choose to look like your assigned gender? If so, do you struggle with feeling fake and how do you handle it? 

FWIW from someone who is tranbinary and can't transition because of medical issues, I think just admitting to yourself that you're nonbinary takes courage and soulsearching, and there's nothing fake about those. You can't fake courage or sincerity, nor should you feel out in the cold because you can't be fit some unobtainable form of perfection. 

 

Just my two cents. We all struggle in some way or another, and we should help each other whenever we can't, not accentuate differences.

[Awren]

12 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

We all struggle in some way or another, and we should help each other whenever we can't, not accentuate differences.

I agree with that. I think my big problem right now is that this has been something for myself and now I have made the decision to share that identity with others and I am starting to doubt myself as I imagine their reactions. The good news is the group I will be sharing with has a lot of very inclusive people so the worst of the reactions I imagine probably won't happen. And if they do happen, this thread has helped me clarify things for myself in a way that will allow me to explain to others.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

12 hours ago, Awren said:

I agree with that. I think my big problem right now is that this has been something for myself and now I have made the decision to share that identity with others and I am starting to doubt myself as I imagine their reactions. The good news is the group I will be sharing with has a lot of very inclusive people so the worst of the reactions I imagine probably won't happen. And if they do happen, this thread has helped me clarify things for myself in a way that will allow me to explain to others.

The dissonance in what you see in your mirror image and what you see in yourself is probably the worst thing you'll have to overcome. That dissonance is the source of your fears, but when you are around people who have better eyes and 'see' you ( in Avatarese), you'll be fine. Seek out those people, they will help you with that.

 

And never forget the lines from Desiderata :

 

Quote

Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.

 

And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. 

 

Like the rest of us, you are Stardust and no one can take that from you without your consent.

 

[Strange-quark]

Was just passing by... and ended up reading all this and I wanting to say that I feel you. Now I'm on the verge of tears, so, umm, thanks all. *Hides*

[PoeciMeta]

2 hours ago, Strange-quark said:

Was just passing by... and ended up reading all this and I wanting to say that I feel you. Now I'm on the verge of tears, so, umm, thanks all. *Hides*

Hey Quark, I don't know much about your situation but I'm totally welcoming you in the enby club if you wanna. Not that you need my authorisation, of course. *Imaginary hugs* if wanted! 

[Strange-quark]

1 minute ago, Poe's Creep Meta said:

Hey Quark, I don't know much about your situation but I'm totally welcoming you in the enby club if you wanna. Not that you need my authorisation, of course. *Imaginary hugs* if wanted! 

Thank you, that really means a lot to me *imaginarily hugs back* It's all just so complex... (math puns teehee)

[PoeciMeta]

11 minutes ago, Strange-quark said:

Thank you, that really means a lot to me *imaginarily hugs back* It's all just so complex... (math puns teehee)

Don't worry, it doesn't mean you're being irrational

[Strange-quark]

14 minutes ago, Poe's Creep Meta said:

Don't worry, it doesn't mean you're being irrational

Good

[Awren]

10 hours ago, Strange-quark said:

Was just passing by... and ended up reading all this and I wanting to say that I feel you. Now I'm on the verge of tears, so, umm, thanks all. *Hides*

One of the best things about this post was that it let me know I am not alone. So thanks for chiming in.

[cp1213]

I relate to this so much it hurts. 

I'm ok with people referring to me as a female for a long time so I feel like a fraud when I first started identifying as agender and have to constantly remind myself that I don't need to have dysphoria. Also I can't afford to have a binder right now and it would be nice to have one so I would look less feminine. Unfortunately that would take me a while   

[Acing It]

On 10/24/2019 at 9:46 PM, anisotrophic said:

How funny this worked so well for you. I dressed male for years and nobody even noticed I was cross-dressing, let alone saw me as male. Two months into T and they still don't. maybe I'm wearing the clothes wrong?

I bet people trying this the other way round wouldn't have that problem.

[PoeciMeta]

24 minutes ago, Acing It said:

I bet people trying this the other way round wouldn't have that problem.

Some of them would have a LOT of problems. 😞

[DuranDuranfan]

On 10/27/2019 at 9:26 PM, cp1213 said:

I relate to this so much it hurts. 

I'm ok with people referring to me as a female for a long time so I feel like a fraud when I first started identifying as agender and have to constantly remind myself that I don't need to have dysphoria. Also I can't afford to have a binder right now and it would be nice to have one so I would look less feminine. Unfortunately that would take me a while   

If you’re small enough they can be concealed using one of those tank tops guys wear as an undershirt. Then wear a t-shirt and a button up shirt with pockets on both sides. I do that when I need to give my body a break from binding.

[cp1213]

1 hour ago, DuranDuranfan said:

If you’re small enough they can be concealed using one of those tank tops guys wear as an undershirt. Then wear a t-shirt and a button up shirt with pockets on both sides. I do that when I need to give my body a break from binding.

Thank you. I'll try that out  

 

[DuranDuranfan]

20 hours ago, cp1213 said:

Thank you. I'll try that out  

 

No problem.

 

Off topic, how do you get one of those avatars? I see a few others have them here too.

[Fraggle Underdark]

4 minutes ago, DuranDuranfan said:

No problem.

 

Off topic, how do you get one of those avatars? I see a few others have them here too.

This site picrew.

 

There's a thread where people make them. The site has a lot of different image makers, what I do is scroll around in the thread until I see a style I like and usually people put the link to that maker there. cp1213's avatar is from a maker that people used a lot from the beginning so it'd be best to scan the beginning of the thread.

 

 

 

[DuranDuranfan]

1 minute ago, fragglerock said:

This site picrew.

 

There's a thread where people make them. The site has a lot of different image makers, what I do is scroll around in the thread until I see a style I like and usually people put the link to that maker there. cp1213's avatar is from a maker that people used a lot from the beginning so it'd be best to scan the beginning of the thread.

 

 

 

Thank you!

[Awren]

The past couple of weeks have been super busy, but I wanted to post an update. I went to the conference and wore my "they/them" pin. No one questioned it or even looked at me funny. I did end up talking to someone who has been to multiple conferences that I have attended. She apologized for assuming that I was female and we ended up spending quite a bit of time talking about how it is not always easy to tell who someone is by looking at them. Also, it turns out that a good friend of hers is also ace. Overall, I felt so much better after talking to her. I look forward to wearing my ace fox pin next year since I noticed many people also had pins that had the colors representing their orientation. This was probably the most inclusive and accepting conference I have ever attended.