AceMissBehaving Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, Philip027 said: You do?? Share with us, because I sure don't. All I was getting was pretty much "I don't want sex with anyone and I'm not sexually attracted to anyone but I want sex in a relationship and if I'm not sexually satisfied in one I'd rather leave" and needless to say that's a little confusing I’m not sure it’s so much that, as there are certain stimulus (which could be more sensual than sexual) linked to specific BDSM practices that are desired, and the person best fit to provide those with a measure of competence and safety would be the target, and picked more like one might pick an applicant for a position than through attraction. The desire for a partner in these activities is possibly primarily because the op is currently unaware of any safe, suitable solo methods to achieve the results more so than having the activities be partnered, and a more sexual component is something that they are good with or without. I’m just parsing our what I can from the last part that I was responding to and haven’t gone through they whole thread. I know a couple of people who engage in kink this was so could projecting from that and be way off. I’m not a big fan of trying to put words on other people’s mouthed though. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 38 minutes ago, AceMissBehaving said: I’m not sure it’s so much that, as there are certain stimulus (which could be more sensual than sexual) linked to specific BDSM practices that are desired, and the person best fit to provide those with a measure of competence and safety would be the target, and picked more like one might pick an applicant for a position than through attraction. The desire for a partner in these activities is possibly primarily because the op is currently unaware of any safe, suitable solo methods to achieve the results more so than having the activities be partnered, and a more sexual component is something that they are good with or without. I’m just parsing our what I can from the last part that I was responding to and haven’t gone through they whole thread. I know a couple of people who engage in kink this was so could projecting from that and be way off. I’m not a big fan of trying to put words on other people’s mouthed though. I know one of the things the OP reiterated a few times was fingering, and some other more kink-related stuff. OP said they select a partner based on personality and how safe they feel with that person etc, and enjoy the shared sexual experience as long as the other person can satisfy them (if OP can't be satisfied sexually then they leave). Again the OP can call themselves whatever they feel most comfortable with, the issue is that their understanding of how sexual people function seems to be slightly confused and as a result, they're putting some inaccurate information out there. The OP has said time and time again that the difference is that sexual people get aroused by another person and want sex with them as a result of that arousal. We've all tried explaining that no, that's not how all sexual people function - and given many examples!!! But the OP seems to want to steadfastly believe that what makes someone sexual is that they get aroused by certain people and want sex with those people as a result. ...But I mean, at least 30% of the population would be asexual if that was the case. What it comes down to is that one person wants to believe something very specific about an entire group of people, and other people (both sexual and ace) have tried to give examples and explanations as to why those ideas about said group of people are inaccurate (and slightly offensive). OP however insists it's everyone else who are wrong about sexual people, even the sexual people themselves don't know how sexual people feel (only the OP knows, apparently) so it's clear we'll never be able to reach an agreement unfortunately. That sums up the entire conversation pretty much Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Quote I’m not sure it’s so much that, as there are certain stimulus (which could be more sensual than sexual) linked to specific BDSM practices that are desired, and the person best fit to provide those with a measure of competence and safety would be the target, and picked more like one might pick an applicant for a position than through attraction. ... Yeah, there's really no difference there, and trying to suggest there is one is honestly kind of elitist. Sort of like the people who would say "sure, I might want sex, but not for the same reasons as those smelly sexual people would... I'm not like them, ugh" I'm not saying you (or anyone else) are the one making the suggestion, just that IF that's what this is, that's how it would come across. Link to post Share on other sites
AceMissBehaving Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, Philip027 said: ... Yeah, there's really no difference there, and trying to suggest there is one is honestly kind of elitist. Sort of like the people who would say "sure, I might want sex, but not for the same reasons as those smelly sexual people would... I'm not like them, ugh" I'm not saying you (or anyone else) are the one making the suggestion, just that IF that's what this is, that's how it would come across. I’m just trying to figure our what the poster might mean and if possible find some level of understanding. I’m also not implying anything is morally better or worse, or casting dispersions on sexual folks. I know sexual people who engage this way with kink as a separate thing to sex. There are even legal lines drawn here, this is the reason you can operate a full dungeon set up in a night club for people to engage in these activities, but a dancer can’t show nipples. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, Philip027 said: ... Yeah, there's really no difference there, and trying to suggest there is one is honestly kind of elitist. Sort of like the people who would say "sure, I might want sex, but not for the same reasons as those smelly sexual people would... I'm not like them, ugh" I'm not saying you (or anyone else) are the one making the suggestion, just that IF that's what this is, that's how it would come across. Yes. Everybody chooses their sex partners. It's always a choice (assuming consensual situation, of course). Orientation just indicates the preference in terms of gender that inherently limits the pool of people you consider eligible for that choice, e.g. a straight man chooses partners from among women (because sex with women is what he inherently desires), a gay man chooses partners from among men (because sex with men is what he inherently desires), etc.. Link to post Share on other sites
Halffull Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I desire donuts 🍩 Link to post Share on other sites
gray-a girl Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 I am so SICK of people invalidating me on here. Sexual attraction has to do with AROUSAL, TO PEOPLE, not behavior. I think a lot of damage has been done here by people claiming to know what other people's orientations are, and then invalidating them. If I see ANYONE from this thread invalidating me, or another sex favorable asexual on here, I will bring in the mods. Period. Believe what you like, but know that your beliefs are specific only to AVEN and they are a minority even here. KEEP your opinions to yourself, unless someone is specifically saying "what is my orientation in your opinion?" Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 7 hours ago, gray-a girl said: Sexual attraction has to do with AROUSAL, TO PEOPLE, not behavior. That is incorrect. Otherwise things like erectile dysfunction wouldn't be an issue. Link to post Share on other sites
HikaruBG Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 11/10/2019 at 2:59 AM, gray-a girl said: I am so SICK of people invalidating me on here. Sexual attraction has to do with AROUSAL, TO PEOPLE, not behavior. I think a lot of damage has been done here by people claiming to know what other people's orientations are, and then invalidating them. If I see ANYONE from this thread invalidating me, or another sex favorable asexual on here, I will bring in the mods. Period. Believe what you like, but know that your beliefs are specific only to AVEN and they are a minority even here. KEEP your opinions to yourself, unless someone is specifically saying "what is my orientation in your opinion?" No, it's not. I have said it before and I will say it again (because I really dislike repeating arguments that I have stated once). I was holding back, up until now but I have had enough keeping it to myself. This is incredibly harmful mentality, thinking that "sexual attraction is all about arousal to people". What you are doing is invalidating people with sexual arousal disorders (a.i. people who actively desire sex but their bodies cannot prepare properly because of their medical condition), rape victims (who has reported experiencing arousal and orgasms during their rape) and even people of other sexual orientations. Spoiler If a gay man gets involuntary physical reaction (a.i. slight arousal) to naked women (be it on a picture or IRL), does this means that he suddenly isn't gay, even when he states multiple times that he doesn't want to have sex with women, but with men? No, he is still very much gay because he articulated properly that he wants to have sex with men. It doesn't matter if his gentals reacted, it's his mind that has the final saying on whatever or not he wants to have sex and with who, a.k.a. men. Just because you find your experience with LGBT+ community more helpful, this doesn't mean that you wouldn't get the same level of backlash on this exact issue, once you start saying the same stuff to them. Arousal itself isn't a good indication of sexual attraction. Literally anything can cause arousal in someone as long as the brain percieves it as sex-related stimuli, however this doesn't mean that the person wants to have sex with whatever caused that arousal. That's the Pavlov's dog experiment and is called "Arousal Non-concordance". It has been explained to you, multiple times, that it's not about sexual attraction but whatever or not you want to have partnered sex for your own personal gratification specifically. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't matter in what context do you want have sex (be it only when you are in relationship, One Night Stands or when you are exposed to your kinks or what-have-you). Period. Also, you still don't understand how do sex-repulsed asexuals work, nor that you are trying to. Please, keep us out of this if you can't do this. Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 people be arguing over the direction the wind blows. Link to post Share on other sites
Knight of Cydonia Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 19 hours ago, gray-a girl said: I am so SICK of people invalidating me on here. Sexual attraction has to do with AROUSAL, TO PEOPLE, not behavior. I think a lot of damage has been done here by people claiming to know what other people's orientations are, and then invalidating them. If I see ANYONE from this thread invalidating me, or another sex favorable asexual on here, I will bring in the mods. Period. Believe what you like, but know that your beliefs are specific only to AVEN and they are a minority even here. KEEP your opinions to yourself, unless someone is specifically saying "what is my orientation in your opinion?" I have a hard time believing that what everyone else is saying and trying to explain to you is specific only to AVEN and further, is only a minority here. For starters, what you are saying disagrees with AVEN's own FAQ on what defines asexuality and sexual attraction, and the role of arousal. Some snippets: Quote Sexual Attraction: Desire to have sexual contact with someone else or to share our sexuality with them. (Note: sexual attraction does not need to be based on appearance, and can also develop gradually over time.) Quote Allosexual: Someone who does experience sexual attraction or an intrinsic desire to have sexual relationships (or the adjective describing a person as such). This category is also often simply referred to as “sexual”. Quote Sexual orientation ultimately comes down to an intrinsic desire for sex with another person. Quote Asexual people can still have libidos or experience arousal, but do not experience any intrinsic attraction or desire to engage in sexual activities with other people. Quote Many people who experience sexual arousal in some form still identify as asexual – they just don’t feel the desire to be sexual with someone else. Quote Some asexuals who masturbate do not have a sex drive motivating them, but they just do it because it feels nice or relieves stress. Other asexuals masturbate because they have a personal libido that they wish to take care of privately. They may experience arousal as a biological response to outside stimuli that they feel a need to relieve themselves of, but without any connection to wanting partnered sex. Your insistence that "arousal to others = sexual attraction" is bound to have pushback, and some other posters have already explained why it falls apart (and is even harmful). Perhaps the most common sentiment I've seen on these forums, from both asexuals and sexuals alike, is that asexuality is defined by a lack of intrinsic desire for partnered sexual activities. This is consistent with AVEN's definition of asexuality, as quoted above. Being willing to have sex (and even enjoying it, or e.g. wanting to do it to please a partner or have a kid) is one thing - actually seeking it out for personal physical or emotional satisfaction is a key difference, and it's what separates asexuals from sexuals. Link to post Share on other sites
The_Squished_Elf Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Wow this thread is a mess. I'm actually going to largely jump in on OP's side of the discussion, y'all are being really nitpicky and borderline bullying them with an outright refusal to accept their point of view, and as OP noted, outright saying they can't be asexual. I get that you're prefacing it with something along the lines of "just my opinion BUT", however OP stated this was not proving helpful and y'all continued to use it as OP got more and more flustered with the nitpicking. If you read OP's quoted definitions, they're using arousal as a catch-all for intrinsic sexual desire. Yes, they could have changed their wording, however as a gray-A myself I do agree that a mental form of "arousal" fits the overall sensation better than any other term, so I'm willing to give them wiggle-room there. They explicitly do not use the term arousal in the clinical sense of the physical response, but rather as the mental effect that is elsewhere referred to as experiencing intrinsic sexual desire. Calling their usage problematic is short-sighted at best, probably arguing in bad faith, and vicious at worst if paired with a systematic campaign of invalidating their experiences and points of view (which is certainly what this thread (and its neighbours) ends up looking like.) TL;DR ->people keep responding to OP's individual posts rather than the full context within this thread, ->OP ended up feeling rather victimised in a supposedly safe space, as they were consistently misunderstood and misrepresented, ->leading them to feel severely invalidated and continue misstepping as the conversation grew increasingly more toxic for them. Honestly pretty damn rude of y'all in what's supposedly a safe space. Don't think I'll be returning here very often if this is what the community's becoming. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Quote supposedly safe space I don't think anyone was necessarily calling this place that other than you. I've seen an asexual "safe space" before and if this place was like that I would leave, because that would just mean nothing could be challenged or discussed without someone getting their panties in a knot (boo hoo). No thanks. That's not what a supposedly Visibility/Education Network (something that this place actually DOES claim to be) should strive for. To be honest though, this place is edging closer and closer to being like that. Mods outright admitting they are shutting down conversations because they can't be bothered to do their job of policing threads only helps point toward this growing reality. Link to post Share on other sites
crazy ace Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Any way, the OP has a point. Hanging out in LGBT+ spaces can be helpful for understanding who you are. Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 hour ago, crazy ace said: Any way, the OP has a point. Hanging out in LGBT+ spaces can be helpful for understanding who you are. sir? is sounds a little like you are trying to post on topic. where you aware of that? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.