Jump to content
gray-a girl

I went to an LGBT group and it was helpful

Recommended Posts

gray-a girl

I know there was some question in another thread about asexuals joining a LGBT group. I decided to go, and I felt like it was really good for me. I found that I actually could relate to some of the things that were talked about, especially stuff related to people not being really accepting of your orientation or your gender identity. The sad thing is, the place where I have been able to relate to them on, was actually because of the treatment I got here. I've had a number of people invalidate my orientation because I identify as a sex favorable asexual... (technically I am gray-a but if you look at my life right now, rather than ten years ago, asexuality fits better so I am going with that now). But the sex favorable part has really made some people here very invalidating.

There is one thing thats interesting, though. I used to feel kind of like, is non-gender binary even real or some kind of made up thing? I'd always be respectful and use the right pronouns, and never let on that I thought that, but I did. Now, after experiencing some prejudice (is that the right word?) here on AVEN, I think I can not feel that way. Basically, I don't understand non-gender binary. I don't understand how that could work. How could someone feel that they are neither gender? I can grasp feeling like the wrong gender, but neither? It doesn't make sense to me. But after the treatment I got here at AVEN,I started looking at things differently. I think that just because you don't understand a person's experience and just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it's invalid and that it's wrong. It doesn't mean its all in their head, or they are mislabeling themselves, or making up labels for themselves. Just because I can't understand non-gender binary, doesn't mean it's not a real way to be. Just because I'm a sex favorable asexual and certain people don't understand how thats possible, doesn't mean its not valid. And, just because I do enjoy sexual activity with people, doesn't mean I feel sexual attraction to that person. Maybe that doesn't make sense to people, and maybe I can't really have that make sense unless you were to somehow magically step in my shoes. But I think, we need to trust people when they say their orientation or gender identity. Not understanding does not equal not valid.  I think, of the few here who try to invalidate my own orientation, maybe part of it is that they don't understand how it's possible. Maybe part of it, too, is that the "no sex" part is so important to some people that they feel insecure about allowing other people to identify as asexual or on the ace spectrum. But I think, a big part of it, is that there is a lack of understanding. A feeling like, this cannot make sense, so it must be wrong. So I just wanted to share that with people. I also feel like its kind of sad that, my main experience with a lack of respect for my orientation has been here. I haven't really come out to a lot of people IRL, and I'm only starting to do that now, so I might experience some prejudice/invalidation outside of AVEN too. (Hopefully not). But it makes me sad that, THE place where I should be accepted, is not necessarily always so.

 

Perhaps thats also why sexuals invalidate asexuals. They just cannot grasp not being sexually attracted to people and/or not wanting sex.

 

Anyway I just wanted to share that with people. I think that, for those of you who have felt invalidated irl due to being on the ace spectrum, or had other problems with people not understanding, LGBT groups can be helpful.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back to Avalon

I'm sorry you're having those negative experiences here. Unfortunately, some people appoint themselves judge and jury of others' asexuality. If someone is harassing, insulting, or trying to invalidate you, be sure to report it to a moderator.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl

I remember an event where you might have felt invalidated that resulted in a definition debate. Such disputes aren't about you but rather definitions and groups as a whole. It's not "You're not asexual because~" but rather "these defintions contradict each other and therefore cannot both be used simultaneously". Try and not take them personally.

 

Maybe it wasn't the only instance, but maybe if you moved past it you'd feel better. Some people are just assholes sometimes, myself included at times. People can be mean, but it's up to you whether you let that affect everything you do from then on. 

Spoiler

Kind of like if your mom died, or your friend said they hate you and never want to talk to you again. It's intense and painful and hurtful, but if you hold onto those negative feelings, you're the one suffering from them and you're making it worse for yourself in the long run. It's not "just get over it already" but rather "coming to terms with how you feel and moving past it". You're giving them power over you by lingering on it. 

 

I'm glad you found a group that welcomed you and made you feel better. I hope you can move past the wrongs that were done to you. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
crazy ace
1 hour ago, gray-a girl said:

There is one thing thats interesting, though. I used to feel kind of like, is non-gender binary even real or some kind of made up thing? I'd always be respectful and use the right pronouns, and never let on that I thought that, but I did. Now, after experiencing some prejudice (is that the right word?) here on AVEN, I think I can not feel that way. Basically, I don't understand non-gender binary. I don't understand how that could work. How could someone feel that they are neither gender? I can grasp feeling like the wrong gender, but neither? It doesn't make sense to me. But after the treatment I got here at AVEN,I started looking at things differently. I think that just because you don't understand a person's experience and just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it's invalid and that it's wrong. It doesn't mean its all in their head, or they are mislabeling themselves, or making up labels for themselves. Just because I can't understand non-gender binary, doesn't mean it's not a real way to be. Just because I'm a sex favorable asexual and certain people don't understand how thats possible, doesn't mean its not valid. And, just because I do enjoy sexual activity with people, doesn't mean I feel sexual attraction to that person. Maybe that doesn't make sense to people, and maybe I can't really have that make sense unless you were to somehow magically step in my shoes. But I think, we need to trust people when they say their orientation or gender identity. Not understanding does not equal not valid.  I think, of the few here who try to invalidate my own orientation, maybe part of it is that they don't understand how it's possible. Maybe part of it, too, is that the "no sex" part is so important to some people that they feel insecure about allowing other people to identify as asexual or on the ace spectrum. But I think, a big part of it, is that there is a lack of understanding. A feeling like, this cannot make sense, so it must be wrong. So I just wanted to share that with people. I also feel like its kind of sad that, my main experience with a lack of respect for my orientation has been here. I haven't really come out to a lot of people IRL, and I'm only starting to do that now, so I might experience some prejudice/invalidation outside of AVEN too. (Hopefully not). But it makes me sad that, THE place where I should be accepted, is not necessarily always so.

 

Perhaps thats also why sexuals invalidate asexuals. They just cannot grasp not being sexually attracted to people and/or not wanting sex.

I think that is one of the most level-headed explanations that I have read about invalidation and acceptance on AVEN.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gray-a girl
13 hours ago, SithGirl said:

I remember an event where you might have felt invalidated that resulted in a definition debate. Such disputes aren't about you but rather definitions and groups as a whole. It's not "You're not asexual because~" but rather "these defintions contradict each other and therefore cannot both be used simultaneously". Try and not take them personally.

 

Maybe it wasn't the only instance, but maybe if you moved past it you'd feel better. Some people are just assholes sometimes, myself included at times. People can be mean, but it's up to you whether you let that affect everything you do from then on. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Kind of like if your mom died, or your friend said they hate you and never want to talk to you again. It's intense and painful and hurtful, but if you hold onto those negative feelings, you're the one suffering from them and you're making it worse for yourself in the long run. It's not "just get over it already" but rather "coming to terms with how you feel and moving past it". You're giving them power over you by lingering on it. 

 

I'm glad you found a group that welcomed you and made you feel better. I hope you can move past the wrongs that were done to you. 

I don't mind debates about definitions. I find it is very very healthy, and very needed in this community. I think a lot of issues do come with varying definitions of asexuality, and people wanting to define it only a specific way. Thats not what I have an issue with. What I have an issue with is when people specifically tell me, during the course of a conversation, that because I am sex favorable I am not asexual. They will say stuff like "you are sexual" and then when I try to explain why sexual doesn't fit me, they will say "what do you have against being sexual? There is nothing wrong with that". Believe me, I think life would be a lot easier if I was sexual. In a lot of ways I wish I was. But being told that is massively frustrating, especially since I just explained why I was not sexual and that label didn't fit me.

I just found that the LGBT group was interesting because, originally I didn't know if there would be shared experiences, but it seems that there are some. And I'm sure eventually I will (unfortunately) encounter people irl, who will not be understanding either. I may not get it as badly as indifferent or sex repulsed asexuals, but I'm sure I will encounter issues eventually. It seems, no matter what minority group you belong to (or no minority group) when someone has an experience that is hard for you to understand, you can be treated badly for it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
8 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

They will say stuff like "you are sexual" and then when I try to explain why sexual doesn't fit me

 

23 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

technically I am gray-a

This would be the reason people are saying "You're sexual". Grey- and demi- are technically terms that fall under the "sexual spectrum", something the definition debates are over (ie sexual spectrum, or asexual spectrum? How can "no" be a spectrum?). Basically, if you're not absolute 0, you're "sexual" is how some people use these terms and definitions to mean.

 

It's like when I argue with my friend who uses the label "lesbian" whenever she just doesn't feel like dating men because she's bisexual but has had bad experiences with men and lashes out by rejecting them with her label (she also goes through periods where she's just not attracted to men (mostly when she just got out of a bad relationship...) so there is reason for her to use the other term even if I disagree). She's obviously a lot different from you, from what I've seen, but I'm trying to find a comparison. Basically, it comes down to if we want the labels to mean "me, right now, as I am" or "me over time, the culmination of my experiences". For grey- or demi- individuals, this becomes a problem because their labels are the bridge between these two.

For example, if I have never experienced sexual attraction, I'm ace. But if one day I find myself feeling intense desire to have sex with my bf (or else feel sexual attraction towards him) I would be "sexual" during that time period. If it keeps going for long enough, I could assume the label "heterosexual", since that would describe me at that time. But demi- or grey- would be terms to describe my experience as a whole since experiencing it only for my bf and only after a great deal of time would tend to make me different from other heterosexuals. The reverse can also happen. If one goes from sexual to asexual, demi- or grey- could still describe them as well. But it's these transitions that have people doing the gate-keeping that exists everywhere.

Spoiler

The gate-keeping here being, are you asexual only if you've never experienced sexual attraction, or don't experience it right now? Many sexuals claim not to feel sexual attraction towards everybody, so where is the cut off between "I used to, but don't any more" and "I used to, don't right now, but will again in the future"? Does an asexual deserve to be able to separate themselves from people who can experience sexual attraction, even if they don't at this very moment? How do we separate introverted sexuals, not pursuing relationships, possessing a low libido, etc. from a normal asexual? 

 

The term "sex-favorable" is also a problem because, like I said, people don't always agree if it can be used with "asexual" without being contradictory. If the definition of asexual is "does not desire sex" but the definition of sex-favorable is "desires sex" then obviously they're incompatible. I'm not saying those are the correct definitions, I am saying some may think they are. I've seen people use sex-favorable to mean enjoys sex and finds it better than masturbation so would chose it over the latter, but I've also read some using the definition I used before that contradicts the definition for asexual. These are the kinds of discussions that lead to problems and where everyone needs to explain the terms they're using to clear up any misunderstandings.

 

Have you ever heard of "gold star lesbians"? I'm not sure if it's an actual thing, but it essentially means a lesbian who has never had sex with a man. Similar to the asexuals who say they've never questioned their sexuality, but with an air of superiority that I don't believe the ace community possesses a specific term for. I've also heard of bisexuals being rejected if they're monogamous or have a preference towards one or the other. Or else bisexuals being called homosexual because of the tendency for individuals to claim "bi" before fully coming out as gay either through internal confusion or to make it easier to come to terms with socially. 

 

Unfortunately, gate-keeping and invalidation happens in every community. It is quite frustrating since these are all ideas and concepts that are as difficult to pin down as the definition of love, but we insist on trying to have rigid definitions. 

 

I am truly sorry people in the ace communities have offended you. I am saying that I can see their side and yours. I sympathize with you while refusing to outright vilify them. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gray-a girl
18 hours ago, SithGirl said:

 

This would be the reason people are saying "You're sexual". Grey- and demi- are technically terms that fall under the "sexual spectrum", something the definition debates are over (ie sexual spectrum, or asexual spectrum? How can "no" be a spectrum?). Basically, if you're not absolute 0, you're "sexual" is how some people use these terms and definitions to mean.

 

It's like when I argue with my friend who uses the label "lesbian" whenever she just doesn't feel like dating men because she's bisexual but has had bad experiences with men and lashes out by rejecting them with her label (she also goes through periods where she's just not attracted to men (mostly when she just got out of a bad relationship...) so there is reason for her to use the other term even if I disagree). She's obviously a lot different from you, from what I've seen, but I'm trying to find a comparison. Basically, it comes down to if we want the labels to mean "me, right now, as I am" or "me over time, the culmination of my experiences". For grey- or demi- individuals, this becomes a problem because their labels are the bridge between these two.

For example, if I have never experienced sexual attraction, I'm ace. But if one day I find myself feeling intense desire to have sex with my bf (or else feel sexual attraction towards him) I would be "sexual" during that time period. If it keeps going for long enough, I could assume the label "heterosexual", since that would describe me at that time. But demi- or grey- would be terms to describe my experience as a whole since experiencing it only for my bf and only after a great deal of time would tend to make me different from other heterosexuals. The reverse can also happen. If one goes from sexual to asexual, demi- or grey- could still describe them as well. But it's these transitions that have people doing the gate-keeping that exists everywhere.

  Reveal hidden contents

The gate-keeping here being, are you asexual only if you've never experienced sexual attraction, or don't experience it right now? Many sexuals claim not to feel sexual attraction towards everybody, so where is the cut off between "I used to, but don't any more" and "I used to, don't right now, but will again in the future"? Does an asexual deserve to be able to separate themselves from people who can experience sexual attraction, even if they don't at this very moment? How do we separate introverted sexuals, not pursuing relationships, possessing a low libido, etc. from a normal asexual? 

 

The term "sex-favorable" is also a problem because, like I said, people don't always agree if it can be used with "asexual" without being contradictory. If the definition of asexual is "does not desire sex" but the definition of sex-favorable is "desires sex" then obviously they're incompatible. I'm not saying those are the correct definitions, I am saying some may think they are. I've seen people use sex-favorable to mean enjoys sex and finds it better than masturbation so would chose it over the latter, but I've also read some using the definition I used before that contradicts the definition for asexual. These are the kinds of discussions that lead to problems and where everyone needs to explain the terms they're using to clear up any misunderstandings.

 

Have you ever heard of "gold star lesbians"? I'm not sure if it's an actual thing, but it essentially means a lesbian who has never had sex with a man. Similar to the asexuals who say they've never questioned their sexuality, but with an air of superiority that I don't believe the ace community possesses a specific term for. I've also heard of bisexuals being rejected if they're monogamous or have a preference towards one or the other. Or else bisexuals being called homosexual because of the tendency for individuals to claim "bi" before fully coming out as gay either through internal confusion or to make it easier to come to terms with socially. 

 

Unfortunately, gate-keeping and invalidation happens in every community. It is quite frustrating since these are all ideas and concepts that are as difficult to pin down as the definition of love, but we insist on trying to have rigid definitions. 

 

I am truly sorry people in the ace communities have offended you. I am saying that I can see their side and yours. I sympathize with you while refusing to outright vilify them. 

I think invalidating a specific person's orientation is wrong, full stop. But also I disagree with you on some points... while I could see that someone may see demi as more sexual, I think that gray-a has more in common with asexual, especially if on that spectrum you are closer to asexual. And all these types, I think of as "asexual" because to me asexuality is also an umbrella term for all the different types of AVEN. The only thing being (technically) gray a does for me is, I know what its supposed to feel like. Thats why, for example, I know that kissing on the lips is supposed to be a sexual thing. (I've only felt that way about it once or twice. Most of the time....ewww gross, no kissing please).

But I think gray-as are more asexual than sexual, because some of the experiences we have are similar. Growing up, having to fake being attracted to people for example. Dating, and feeling like something is wrong because I'm not attracted to anyone I date. In some ways being gray-a is more confusing though...because attraction (for me) has been fleeting and even for the same person, may only last a brief time like seconds or minutes. It confused me a lot, because I couldn't figure out why 90% of the time I found nobody attractive, but every once in awhile I would for a person. But even that hasn't happened in years. I am actually suspecting... I have bipolar, and I am suspecting that I've felt attracted to people when I've been hypomanic or in a mixed episode. (Just as an education, I have bipolar 2, which means I have never gotten psychotic, delusional, or hallucinated from my bipolar. With hypomania, I can be very functional in it, get straight As in class, hold a job, etc. The main problem with bipolar 2 is actually the depression. If people never got depressed with it, I don't think there would be a need to treat bipolar 2 because hypomania does not impair functioning. People may think I'm a little weird or annoying, or overly hyper, but thats about it. I actually really wish they would come up with a separate name for bipolar 2 because people keep assuming its the same thing as people who get manic or psychotic and its not, it is its own thing).

 

Anyway, I feel like I may have felt attracted to people when I was hypomanic. Not sure, its just a theory, because there was a time I didn't know I had bipolar 2 so I may have been hypomanic (or mixed episode...depression and hypomanic symptoms together). Basically not my normal state. So I am wondering if I was experiencing attraction during those times... which would explain why I haven't been attracted to anyone in the last ten or so years. I've only been hypomanic once during this time, and only for a few days before my medications were adjusted. Other than that, I haven't had symptoms at all from my bipolar in years). So thats another reason I feel asexuality fits me better.... the real me, (not the me with bipolar episodes) doesn't really find people attractive. Its just a theory that I've felt attraction when hypomanic.... I only know for sure that that happened once... but it seems to make sense. Normally hypomania can increase your libido, but I've had times where I had a strong libido (when not hypomanic) and wasn't attracted to people either.

 

But the people arguing that I'm sexual weren't zeroing in on the gray-a part. While technically I am gray a, right now I am asexual... but thats not what they are zeroing in on. It's the "sex favorable" part that really gets people hung up. And frankly I don't really understand it. Liking sexual activity with a person is really not that different from liking to masterbate on your own. But for someone who is kinky like me, it's very hard to do most if not all kinks by yourself. So, I like doing sexual stuff with people. If I wasn't kinky and turned on by kink, I would be just indifferent towards sexual stuff with people. It wouldn't be any different from masterbating. It's not about the person it's about the kink, to me. But technically that makes me sex favorable, and people insist I must be sexual if I am sex favorable. Again it baffles me.... liking to masterbate or use toys on yourself...still asexual. But as soon as someone else holds a toy on you? Not asexual? It feels the same as doing it yourself. (But a little better because of the kinks that I cannot do by myself). 

Ah, well, there will always be people who think they know everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
5 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

But the people arguing that I'm sexual weren't zeroing in on the gray-a part. While technically I am gray a, right now I am asexual... but thats not what they are zeroing in on. It's the "sex favorable" part that really gets people hung up. And frankly I don't really understand it. Liking sexual activity with a person is really not that different from liking to masterbate on your own. But for someone who is kinky like me, it's very hard to do most if not all kinks by yourself. So, I like doing sexual stuff with people. If I wasn't kinky and turned on by kink, I would be just indifferent towards sexual stuff with people. It wouldn't be any different from masterbating. It's not about the person it's about the kink, to me. But technically that makes me sex favorable, and people insist I must be sexual if I am sex favorable. Again it baffles me.... liking to masterbate or use toys on yourself...still asexual. But as soon as someone else holds a toy on you? Not asexual? It feels the same as doing it yourself. (But a little better because of the kinks that I cannot do by myself). 

You and I are going to have to disagree. To me and many others, the way you use sex-favorable is basically sexual. And it's a point here on AVEN that sexuals get a bad rep and are poorly represented with people insisting they know what sexual attraction is and they know the threshold between "sexual" and "almost asexual" when those two things aren't different. If you say "I desire sex with a person", no matter if it's kinky or not, it's technically sexual. Because yes, the partnered aspect is important. And the desire to engage in sexual activity with another person is contradictory to the definition of asexuality. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Serran

I am sexual. I exclusively use toys / fingers. I don't find people "hot". I don't quite get why I need a tongue or penis in my vagina to be counted as sexual, when I happily had two orgasms in one day to my wife's hands, even though it's the same motions as I could do myself (mostly). The fact I wanted her to do it rather than doing it myself is why I am sexual. 

 

If you prefer the term asexual, that is fine. Use what you prefer. But, those of us who disagree on definitions don't misunderstand ... we just don't agree. You like kinky toy/hand play with a partner enough to seek it out, you ID yourself as asexual. I like kinky toy/hand play with a partner enough to seek it out, I ID myself as sexual for that reason. 

 

But I am glad you found a good LGBT group you like. Support groups to relate to are great things. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iam9man
6 hours ago, SithGirl said:

To me and many others, the way you use sex-favorable is basically sexual.

Genuine polite question: how would you use/describe “sex-favourable asexual”?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
6 minutes ago, Iam9man said:

Genuine polite question: how would you use/describe “sex-favourable asexual”?

I explained it above. I would say an asexual who has the capability of enjoying sex, but doesn't desire it. Like I am with, say, potato chips. I enjoy them and won't say "no" if offered a flavor I like, but I don't desire them. I can go months or even years without eating potato chips and won't care. They're better than some other snack foods if I'm hungry, but I'd take candy, chocolate, or many other snack foods over them if given a choice. 

 

There are asexuals with libidos. So their body is saying they should have sex, but an asexual would generally go "No, thanks" or "Hell no" to partnered sexual activity. A sex-favorable ace would go "Sure, it's better than masturbation at least." It's not a hard "Yes!" though. They wouldn't miss it if they go without it for weeks or months on end. 

 

I have heard the OP say they desire sex. Yes, it's with their kink, but that they actively desire it and wish their partner wanted it more. Even if that's attraction to the kink or whatever, it's still sexual desire outside the realm of just libido. I would clasify objectum-sexuals or ficto-sexuals the same way. If there's the desire to engage in partnered sexual activity, for whatever reason, they're sexual, even if they're grey-sexual. 

 

Fun fact, it's actually why I have the (grey?) next to my label. I'm not sure if I fall into the realm of ficto-sexual or not. If it turns out I do, wonderful! It won't change a thing about my relationship with my bf or anything. If not, wonderful! I get to keep continuing on like I was before. Do I care if people start telling me I am or am not asexual? A bit, mostly because I would hate to be using the label asexual falsely, even if I'm "effectively asexual" (this is not a reference to OP but rather a different conversation). 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iam9man
7 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

There are asexuals with libidos. So their body is saying they should have sex, but an asexual would generally go "No, thanks" or "Hell no" to partnered sexual activity. A sex-favorable ace would go "Sure, it's better than masturbation at least." It's not a hard "Yes!" though. They wouldn't miss it if they go without it for weeks or months on end. 

Thanks for taking the time to explain. For the record I personally agree with this explanation 😊

 

8 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

I have heard the OP say they desire sex. Yes, it's with their kink, but that they actively desire it and wish their partner wanted it more. Even if that's attraction to the kink or whatever, it's still sexual desire outside the realm of just libido. I would clasify objectum-sexuals or ficto-sexuals the same way. If there's the desire to engage in partnered sexual activity, for whatever reason, they're sexual, even if they're grey-sexual

I’ve personally read it as much more nuanced than simply “desiring partnered sex”, but I guess that’s probably a discussion for another thread.

 

11 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

A bit, mostly because I would hate to be using the label asexual falsely

I personally think the only “false” use of the label asexual would be to use it deliberately with the intent to upset or make fun of it.


In my book, anyone who meets the attraction definition and/or desire definition, and who honestly and thoughtfully relates to the term and wants to adopt it, can usefully and accurately refer to themselves as asexual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
4 minutes ago, Iam9man said:

I personally think the only “false” use of the label asexual would be to use it deliberately with the intent to upset or make fun of it.


In my book, anyone who meets the attraction definition and/or desire definition, and who honestly and thoughtfully relates to the term and wants to adopt it, can usefully and accurately refer to themselves as asexual.

I can agree with you, but I believe false usages for the term would also include someone who truely doesn't understand the word's meaning. One of the first misconceptions I came across when researching asexuality was that it was a phase one goes through after a bad breakup. So you've been involved with someone for years and the breakup has you emotionally devestated to the point of not desiring any kind of relationship, sexual or otherwise. I wouldn't call that person asexual unless it was a "dry-spell", as it were, that lasted a year or more. 

 

It's also my desire to understand what sexual attraction is. If I find myself possessing it, wouldn't it be more honest to admit so, instead of insisting to use a term that doesn't fit me? If I'm truely just in denial of my own feelings because of some past trauma or experience leading me to hate/fear sex, shouldn't I do myself the justice of acknowledging my true feelings and desires instead of living in ignorance? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iam9man
5 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

I can agree with you, but I believe false usages for the term would also include someone who truely doesn't understand the word's meaning. One of the first misconceptions I came across when researching asexuality was that it was a phase one goes through after a bad breakup. So you've been involved with someone for years and the breakup has you emotionally devestated to the point of not desiring any kind of relationship, sexual or otherwise. I wouldn't call that person asexual unless it was a "dry-spell", as it were, that lasted a year or more. 

Completely agree with the example.

 

I guess I’m just a bit weary of the first sentence as some people on AVEN have told me I don’t understand the term “asexual” 🙄

 

6 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

It's also my desire to understand what sexual attraction is. If I find myself possessing it, wouldn't it be more honest to admit so, instead of insisting to use a term that doesn't fit me?

Of course, but that’s 100% for an individual to determine, not for others to insist on their explanation of their personal experiences (note: not saying you’re doing this).

 

10 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

If I'm truely just in denial of my own feelings because of some past trauma or experience leading me to hate/fear sex, shouldn't I do myself the justice of acknowledging my true feelings and desires instead of living in ignorance? 

There’s a lot there to unpack which I think is not for this thread. Food for thought: perhaps this is exactly what a few asexuals have done; been completely honest with themselves and determined they are asexual, despite their behaviour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
1 minute ago, Iam9man said:

There’s a lot there to unpack which I think is not for this thread. Food for thought: perhaps this is exactly what a few asexuals have done; been completely honest with themselves and determined they are asexual, despite their behaviour.

I think a lot of asexuals have done this, but have they done it in the reverse? I had to do a lot of soul searching to figure out I wasn't hetero-, homo-, bi- or pan- sexual but rather asexual, or somewhere in the "asexual spectrum". Back when I first found it, I found it comforing and relieving, like a jacket that finally fit me after so long of ones that never felt right. And as you said, many asexuals do this. Most, from my experience, don't grow up being confident in their "no" answer regarding sexual attraction.

 

But I've changed the way I viewed asexual over time. I have gotten into arguments for both sides about the "asexual spectrum" vs. "sexual spectrum" debate, and I've read countless "attraction vs. desire" definition debates. I love looking into these things. I've looked into myself about whether I'm asexual or just scared of sex, got over my fear of sex and came to believe that no, I truely don't desire sex. That isn't to say someone can't be afraid of sex and also not desire it, just my own self-doubts. 

 

If someone comes to the term "asexual" and settles in, falling asleep and never opening their eyes to question themselves, I don't see it as much different from those who never do any soul searching at all. 

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck. But if it also needs batteries, maybe it's close, but it's probably not a duck, and continuing to insist it's a duck is pretty lazy and short-sighted. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iam9man
17 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

I think a lot of asexuals have done this, but have they done it in the reverse? I had to do a lot of soul searching to figure out I wasn't hetero-, homo-, bi- or pan- sexual but rather asexual, or somewhere in the "asexual spectrum". Back when I first found it, I found it comforing and relieving, like a jacket that finally fit me after so long of ones that never felt right. And as you said, many asexuals do this. Most, from my experience, don't grow up being confident in their "no" answer regarding sexual attraction.

😊👍

 

17 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

I've looked into myself

Good for you (not sarcasm). I think if everyone who gets heated in the regular “debates” on AVEN did this, and accepted that others do this, this would be a more harmonious place.

 

19 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

If someone comes to the term "asexual" and settles in, falling asleep and never opening their eyes to question themselves, I don't see it as much different from those who never do any soul searching at all. 

Completely agree. A healthy amount of self-doubt encourages me to carry on exploring, discussing, introspecting, questioning and discovering myself.

 

20 minutes ago, SithGirl said:

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck. But if it also needs batteries, maybe it's close, but it's probably not a duck, and continuing to insist it's a duck is pretty lazy and short-sighted. 

But one for the duck to work out 🦆😎

 

Consider also some people apply the duck example (or variant thereof) to gender, using it to invalidate anyone who doesn’t identify as male or female. I’m not accusing you of doing so, just highlighting how some people (not you) use simple common sense statements as ammunition to invalidate.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
4 minutes ago, Iam9man said:

Consider also some people apply the duck example (or variant thereof) to gender, using it to invalidate anyone who doesn’t identify as male or female. I’m not accusing you of doing so, just highlighting how some people (not you) use simple common sense statements as ammunition to invalidate.

I can see that as a reasonable reason to not apply it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gray-a girl
10 hours ago, Serran said:

I am sexual. I exclusively use toys / fingers. I don't find people "hot". I don't quite get why I need a tongue or penis in my vagina to be counted as sexual, when I happily had two orgasms in one day to my wife's hands, even though it's the same motions as I could do myself (mostly). The fact I wanted her to do it rather than doing it myself is why I am sexual. 

 

If you prefer the term asexual, that is fine. Use what you prefer. But, those of us who disagree on definitions don't misunderstand ... we just don't agree. You like kinky toy/hand play with a partner enough to seek it out, you ID yourself as asexual. I like kinky toy/hand play with a partner enough to seek it out, I ID myself as sexual for that reason. 

 

But I am glad you found a good LGBT group you like. Support groups to relate to are great things. 

It's the "lack of attraction to people" part that I use to identify on the asexual spectrum. I currently am more asexual than gray-a but if you look at my whole life I am more gray-a. And I am using the "lack of attraction to people" as the definition. There is no other term that describes "lack of attraction to people" other than asexual. Since not being attracted to people has caused me significant issues when dating, I need a word to describe it. So I use the label. (Also, I know I use this term differently then some people, but I use "asexuality" as the umbrella term for all the different variations, including gray-a). But I'm also identifying as asexual because I haven't experienced attraction in like ten years.

 

 

5 hours ago, SithGirl said:

I explained it above. I would say an asexual who has the capability of enjoying sex, but doesn't desire it. Like I am with, say, potato chips. I enjoy them and won't say "no" if offered a flavor I like, but I don't desire them. I can go months or even years without eating potato chips and won't care. They're better than some other snack foods if I'm hungry, but I'd take candy, chocolate, or many other snack foods over them if given a choice. 

 

There are asexuals with libidos. So their body is saying they should have sex, but an asexual would generally go "No, thanks" or "Hell no" to partnered sexual activity. A sex-favorable ace would go "Sure, it's better than masturbation at least." It's not a hard "Yes!" though. They wouldn't miss it if they go without it for weeks or months on end. 

 

I have heard the OP say they desire sex. Yes, it's with their kink, but that they actively desire it and wish their partner wanted it more. Even if that's attraction to the kink or whatever, it's still sexual desire outside the realm of just libido. I would clasify objectum-sexuals or ficto-sexuals the same way. If there's the desire to engage in partnered sexual activity, for whatever reason, they're sexual, even if they're grey-sexual. 

 

Fun fact, it's actually why I have the (grey?) next to my label. I'm not sure if I fall into the realm of ficto-sexual or not. If it turns out I do, wonderful! It won't change a thing about my relationship with my bf or anything. If not, wonderful! I get to keep continuing on like I was before. Do I care if people start telling me I am or am not asexual? A bit, mostly because I would hate to be using the label asexual falsely, even if I'm "effectively asexual" (this is not a reference to OP but rather a different conversation). 

I do not classify a desire to do sexual kink stuff to be necessarily sexual, because kink is not a person. Asexuality deals with a lack of attraction to people,  thats what it means, so that fits me. And honestly, I don't know anyone who would never miss eating potato chips just a little bit, so I'm not sure your analogy works all that well. In a lot of ways, my desire for sex is like eating potato chips for a normal person.... I'd like to eat them if given the chance, but its not the end of the world if I can't have any. Your feelings for potato chips is how I feel about alcohol, though. I wouldn't mind if prohibition happened again, but, I will sometimes enjoy a drink socially. I wouldn't seek it out by myself though. (But most people don't seem to be like me and alcohol).

 

 

5 hours ago, SithGirl said:

I can agree with you, but I believe false usages for the term would also include someone who truely doesn't understand the word's meaning. One of the first misconceptions I came across when researching asexuality was that it was a phase one goes through after a bad breakup. So you've been involved with someone for years and the breakup has you emotionally devestated to the point of not desiring any kind of relationship, sexual or otherwise. I wouldn't call that person asexual unless it was a "dry-spell", as it were, that lasted a year or more. 

 

It's also my desire to understand what sexual attraction is. If I find myself possessing it, wouldn't it be more honest to admit so, instead of insisting to use a term that doesn't fit me? If I'm truely just in denial of my own feelings because of some past trauma or experience leading me to hate/fear sex, shouldn't I do myself the justice of acknowledging my true feelings and desires instead of living in ignorance? 

Yes! But I also think thats part of the problem with defining asexuality as "only" a lack of a desire for sex. There are also people who have phobias, but they are very attracted to people. However, their phobia of sex makes them say "no" to sex. Under a definition that says "only no to sex" they would be asexual. But that doesn't make sense, because a phobia can be treated and cured, whereas we know that orientations cannot be changed. I'm not saying everyone who doesn't desire sex has a phobia, but the fact that some do makes it a little hard to classify asexuality as "only not wanting sex" because clearly, sexuals can feel that way too. Maybe its due to a bad break up, or maybe it's due to a phobia. People can definitely have the wrong reasons for identifying as asexual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
11 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

But I also think thats part of the problem with defining asexuality as "only" a lack of a desire for sex.

While I can basically step away with "agree to disagree" about most of the above, this is the part I want to explain. 

 

I go by the desire model simply because when someone says "I don't experience sexual attraction" I have no idea what that means. If someone says "desire to have sex" I can understand that. It is hard to clarify something so intangible. As I mentioned, it's difficult to describe something like "love" and I would say "attraction" is just as difficult. I have never experienced sexual attraction, so how would I know what it is? Asking sexuals doesn't help.

 

So let me ask you, since you prefer the attraction definition. What is sexual attraction? How do you know you don't experience it? How is it different from the desire definition? 

 

Keep in mind that the desire definition tends to use "intrinsic" when explaining itself to explain away the reasons someone would or wouldn't want to have sex outside their internal selves. As in to relieve libido, to please a partner, because they're afraid, etc. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gray-a girl
21 hours ago, SithGirl said:

While I can basically step away with "agree to disagree" about most of the above, this is the part I want to explain. 

 

I go by the desire model simply because when someone says "I don't experience sexual attraction" I have no idea what that means. If someone says "desire to have sex" I can understand that. It is hard to clarify something so intangible. As I mentioned, it's difficult to describe something like "love" and I would say "attraction" is just as difficult. I have never experienced sexual attraction, so how would I know what it is? Asking sexuals doesn't help.

 

So let me ask you, since you prefer the attraction definition. What is sexual attraction? How do you know you don't experience it? How is it different from the desire definition? 

 

Keep in mind that the desire definition tends to use "intrinsic" when explaining itself to explain away the reasons someone would or wouldn't want to have sex outside their internal selves. As in to relieve libido, to please a partner, because they're afraid, etc. 

Good question. And, the reason why I don't think using interest in sex is a good indicator of asexuality, is because there are many many many other explanations for not wanting sex. For example, people could have a phobia of sex, which is something I've basically seen some people describing the symptoms of. Whether or not a person wants to cure their phobia is irrelevant, the fact that it can be cured means its not an orientation. Second, people can have low libidos. For women, there's very little that can be done. For men, maybe viagra doesn't work, who knows. But, under the definition of "not wanting sex" these people would all count as asexual. Which just doesn't make sense.

I define sexual attraction as being aroused by the person. Or a person. I also define it as wanting to have sex with said person because you are aroused by said person. Although I think there are other reasons for wanting to kiss someone on the lips, I think for sexual people it is arousing as well, because they are breathing in the pheromones of that person. I also define sexual attraction as looking at or interacting with someone, and feeling the desire to have sex with them, as a natural desire. I have found it hard to describe, but basically that doesn't happen to me. Wanting to do sexual stuff with a person is more of an intellectual decision. Or in the case of kink, I want to be turned on by my kink, and it requires two people to do it. If it didn't require two people to do it, then I wouldn't need another person. 

 

But in a nutshell, I define sexual attraction as being aroused by that person. If we are talking about gay people, its the same sex. Bi, its both sexes. And, asexual, neither gender, sex, or any other form of gender identity.

 

Just to add, I just asked someone who is definitely sexual, (and has no interaction with any asexual community) if this definition makes sense, and he said yes. 

Being technically gray-a, I have to concur with this. The few really rare times I ever felt attracted to someone, I was aroused by them. But, I also use the label asexual because a) I see it as an umbrella term and b) Its more functional for me now because it better describes how I am now, since I haven't felt attracted to anyone in over ten years. and c) because I think calling myself gray-a then having to describe it is too confusing for people not on the asexual spectrum, and using it with sexuals is the main context that I need to use it in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl
5 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

But in a nutshell, I define sexual attraction as being aroused by that person.

And this, I think, is too simplistic a way to explain sexual attraction. My boyfriend, for example, is not aroused by every woman he meets. He can be attracted to someone by saying, "Yeah, she's hot," but would never say he was aroused by someone unless they were engaging in sexual behavior. A strip club, for example, can arouse individuals while a restuarant will probably not, but sexual people can acknowledge both the waiters and the strippers as sexually attractive.

 

I find the definition needs to be more general and less specific. Like romantic attraction that I experience doesn't feel specifically like "That man over there, I want to cuddle and kiss him and marry him, but he's a stranger, I'm just experiencing romantic attraction." Rather, it feels like a general sense of wanting romantic interactions and behavior, and when I find a person I like asthetically and platonically, romantic things with that person feel nice and deepen my relationship with that person. 

Hence why I prefer the intrinsic desire model. The intrinsic part, as I've explained, removes other such "desires" to have or not have sex. If you're afraid of it, that's not necessarily asexuality because you can be afraid of sex but still innately desire it, you just need to look past your fear and see if you desire it or not. 

 

I'm going to walk away from this because I can see this going nowhere. I disagree on very key differences you seem to hold to:

 

1) I don't view asexuality as a spectrum anymore. 0 is not a spectrum. "No" is not a spectrum. Grey-sexuality and demi-sexuality and anything close to asexuality can be compared to and those using the labels can feel more welcome in our communities, and that's fine. They can even call themselves asexual to the layman because saing "I experience sexual attraction, but only rarely, so don't get your hopes up, I'm still not interested" is complicated. Using it as a shorthand in real life is fine. But using it on an asexuality website where these terms are used and recognized regularly, feels like lying. 

Using an argument I once used to defend the "asexuality spectrum", sexuality can be seen on a scale of 0 =< x < 1 (sorry, I can't do "less than or equal to", so you get =< so it also doesn't look like an arrow). 0 would be asexuality. Someone can become asexual over time (which, if we're using the "right now" application of sexual orientations would apply to you as well as me) or stay there for life. Anything above 0 would be technically sexual, even if it's 0.00000000000001. I label 1 as impossible because I find that would be attracted to absolutely everybody and I have no belief that's a thing. 

 

2) I disagree about your definition of asexuality, as I explained above. 

 

3) I mostly began this conversation because I'm tired of hearing people complain about not feeling welcome somewhere without acknowledging why. From comments I've seen you post before, you seem to focus more on "people hate me because of my label" and not "people disagree with what the definitions of my labels are and have different opinions to me".  

Letting people use whatever definitions and usages they want is something I discussed with Iam9man before. If someone believes that asexuality is just not wanting sex, even if it's for brief periods after a breakup, I can argue that that's not what asexuality is and explain why. If that person continues to disagree, and continues to switch between "asexual" and "heterosexual" every few months, that would have damaging affects on how we're perceived as a general population. It's why I don't like my friend switching between "bisexual" and "homosexual" every time she has a bad relationship with a man. 

And if I break down my problems with "This is not what X means, so maybe you should stop using it that way", they should reply with "I don't believe X means that, I believe is means this, so I will continue to use it my way" instead of "People hate me because they don't understand me." The first is a conflict with definitions, terms, ideas, and the second is taking something personally and making it about you. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snao van der Cone
5 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

Wanting to do sexual stuff with a person is more of an intellectual decision.

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but I just had a question about this statement, because I relate to it but I want to confirm if I'm interpreting it the same way you intended.

 

Is this intellectual decision something that's ongoing and sustainable for you, and if you stopped doing it, would you feel any worse? I don't mean the kink part, just the sex.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Philip027
Quote

Liking sexual activity with a person is really not that different from liking to masterbate on your own.

... Are you joking?  These are vastly different and are going to produce two vastly different relationships if paired with another person, particularly a sexual person.  It's not only erroneous to suggest that these are "really not that different", it's outright potentially harmful.

 

Quote

So, I like doing sexual stuff with people.

Yeah, so do most sexual people.  It's why we call them that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gray-a girl
11 hours ago, SithGirl said:

And this, I think, is too simplistic a way to explain sexual attraction. My boyfriend, for example, is not aroused by every woman he meets. He can be attracted to someone by saying, "Yeah, she's hot," but would never say he was aroused by someone unless they were engaging in sexual behavior. A strip club, for example, can arouse individuals while a restuarant will probably not, but sexual people can acknowledge both the waiters and the strippers as sexually attractive.

 

I find the definition needs to be more general and less specific. Like romantic attraction that I experience doesn't feel specifically like "That man over there, I want to cuddle and kiss him and marry him, but he's a stranger, I'm just experiencing romantic attraction." Rather, it feels like a general sense of wanting romantic interactions and behavior, and when I find a person I like asthetically and platonically, romantic things with that person feel nice and deepen my relationship with that person. 

Hence why I prefer the intrinsic desire model. The intrinsic part, as I've explained, removes other such "desires" to have or not have sex. If you're afraid of it, that's not necessarily asexuality because you can be afraid of sex but still innately desire it, you just need to look past your fear and see if you desire it or not. 

 

I'm going to walk away from this because I can see this going nowhere. I disagree on very key differences you seem to hold to:

 

1) I don't view asexuality as a spectrum anymore. 0 is not a spectrum. "No" is not a spectrum. Grey-sexuality and demi-sexuality and anything close to asexuality can be compared to and those using the labels can feel more welcome in our communities, and that's fine. They can even call themselves asexual to the layman because saing "I experience sexual attraction, but only rarely, so don't get your hopes up, I'm still not interested" is complicated. Using it as a shorthand in real life is fine. But using it on an asexuality website where these terms are used and recognized regularly, feels like lying. 

Using an argument I once used to defend the "asexuality spectrum", sexuality can be seen on a scale of 0 =< x < 1 (sorry, I can't do "less than or equal to", so you get =< so it also doesn't look like an arrow). 0 would be asexuality. Someone can become asexual over time (which, if we're using the "right now" application of sexual orientations would apply to you as well as me) or stay there for life. Anything above 0 would be technically sexual, even if it's 0.00000000000001. I label 1 as impossible because I find that would be attracted to absolutely everybody and I have no belief that's a thing. 

 

2) I disagree about your definition of asexuality, as I explained above. 

 

3) I mostly began this conversation because I'm tired of hearing people complain about not feeling welcome somewhere without acknowledging why. From comments I've seen you post before, you seem to focus more on "people hate me because of my label" and not "people disagree with what the definitions of my labels are and have different opinions to me".  

Letting people use whatever definitions and usages they want is something I discussed with Iam9man before. If someone believes that asexuality is just not wanting sex, even if it's for brief periods after a breakup, I can argue that that's not what asexuality is and explain why. If that person continues to disagree, and continues to switch between "asexual" and "heterosexual" every few months, that would have damaging affects on how we're perceived as a general population. It's why I don't like my friend switching between "bisexual" and "homosexual" every time she has a bad relationship with a man. 

And if I break down my problems with "This is not what X means, so maybe you should stop using it that way", they should reply with "I don't believe X means that, I believe is means this, so I will continue to use it my way" instead of "People hate me because they don't understand me." The first is a conflict with definitions, terms, ideas, and the second is taking something personally and making it about you. 

I think you kind of prove my point within your first few sentences. You said "my boyfriend is not aroused by every women he meets". Of course not! No sexual person is attracted to everyone! Thats pretty obvious. But you said "not aroused by every women he meets" which implies that, he is aroused by some women that he meets. Hence, my definition of sexual attraction being about being aroused by a person, fits. You don't have to be aroused by every member of that gender... just some.  I also think that if you talk to any sexual person that is not associated with the asexual community, you will get the same definition I am using. (I say not associated with the asexual community because people here have some strange ideas about things that are very specific to at least AVEN. They don't always match up with what the rest of the world thinks.)

 

Also there are people that look, on the surface, like they are asexual because their phobia makes them not want to have sex. In many cases, until they get rid of their phobia, its always going to look like, to them, that deep down they don't want sex. You cannot figure out if you want sex at all, until you cure the phobia. Thats because not only does fear kill ones libido, and potentially even ones sexual attraction, but it makes the person want to avoid it so much, that there isn't any room for thinking that they might actually want it deep down. That thought itself would be too scary.

 

1. I don't know why you don't want to admit that there is an asexual spectrum, and I don't know why you want to exclude demi-sexuals and gray-as from that asexual spectrum. It seems that you just want to exclude people, for some reason, and it doesn't make sense. Gray-as in particular, have more in common with asexuals than we do sexuals. For example, I cannot choose a partner based on sexual attraction. I also dont react the same way as someone who is sexual is, when in a relationship. I also struggled with my orientation for awhile, because I felt no attraction to 95% of people. So I think it is a mistake to exclude gray-as in particular, at least from the asexual spectrum. As far as "using asexual on a website" when you're gray a? Well there's a reason I've kept my name as "gray-a girl". I will readily admit that I am technically gray-a. I use asexuality, as I said, as both an umbrella term, and as a term that fits me better in the moment, at this point in my life. But technically I am more gray-a if you look at my whole life. I have never hidden this, so I do not see it as lying. 

 

3. I don't think people hate me. I think they are being very rude and disrespectful.... not by outright saying "this is what I think the definition of asexuality should be". Doing that is fine! We all have viewpoints, and like I said, I don't think not wanting sex really counts by itself as asexuality and thats my definition. So there is nothing wrong with discussing definitions. The problem I have, is when someone points at me, or responds to me, and says "you are sexual". And they refuse to understand why I don't think the label fits. I think that is very disrespectful, very rude, and not very welcoming. If you, SithGirl, identified very strongly as asexual, but a number of people on here INSISTED you were not, I don't think you'd feel very welcomed here either. There is a reason  many people are not feeling welcomed here!! There is a reason many people, especially sex favorable asexuals, have completely abandoned AVEN! Its because.... drum roll.... its not very welcoming to us, when we keep being pointed out and invalidated. Telling me you disagree with my definition of asexuality is fine. Outright calling my sexual, and saying I'm not asexual or on the asexual spectrum, is not fine. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Snao van der Cone said:

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but I just had a question about this statement, because I relate to it but I want to confirm if I'm interpreting it the same way you intended.

 

Is this intellectual decision something that's ongoing and sustainable for you, and if you stopped doing it, would you feel any worse? I don't mean the kink part, just the sex.

I don't know what you mean by ongoing and sustainable?? But, I haven't been doing much sexual stuff recently. A couple of weeks ago I did do some sexual stuff with a guy, but honestly it was meh, I could have taken it or leaved it. Maybe because theres a lack of my specific kinks, or maybe my libido is low, I don't know. I'd like to get more interest in sexual stuff, like I used to be into it, but right now it isn't happening. It isn't the end of the world. But just like I'd rather not give up chocolate for life, I'd rather not give up sexual stuff for life either. However if this continues, I may end up being more similar to indifferent than sex favorable even if sex favorable is more accurate. Up until this last month, I haven't been doing any sexual stuff with a person for the past year or two with only two exceptions.  (and rarely masterbating). I miss it, when I think about it, but thats about it.

 

These days it can be hard to remember how I felt when my libido was higher.... but sex favorable I feel fits me better because I want to get back into it if I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SithGirl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snao van der Cone
1 hour ago, gray-a girl said:

I don't know what you mean by ongoing and sustainable?? But, I haven't been doing much sexual stuff recently. A couple of weeks ago I did do some sexual stuff with a guy, but honestly it was meh, I could have taken it or leaved it. Maybe because theres a lack of my specific kinks, or maybe my libido is low, I don't know. I'd like to get more interest in sexual stuff, like I used to be into it, but right now it isn't happening. It isn't the end of the world. But just like I'd rather not give up chocolate for life, I'd rather not give up sexual stuff for life either. However if this continues, I may end up being more similar to indifferent than sex favorable even if sex favorable is more accurate. Up until this last month, I haven't been doing any sexual stuff with a person for the past year or two with only two exceptions.  (and rarely masterbating). I miss it, when I think about it, but thats about it.

 

These days it can be hard to remember how I felt when my libido was higher.... but sex favorable I feel fits me better because I want to get back into it if I can.

I mean if the desire part of it is frequent and consistent. It sounds like that's what your goal is, to be regularly interested in sex. If that's the case then we view sex differently.

 

Please note that I'm about to describe my personal experiences and perspective

 

I haven't had sex in five years, and I'm almost at five years of identifying as asexual. These are related in that my confidence and clarity of my wants and needs have improved by discovering my asexuality. I'm not ruling out having sex in the future - not in a loving relationship, because ew gross, but just casually as I've done before. However, it's very hard for me to make a case to do this in regular life. Half of the sex I've ever had was with random people while traveling, and that's how I would approach it next time. That's because it's counterintuitive for me to pursue it within my regular schedule. I'm a very intelligent, competent, sensible, and responsible person. I won't take risks of emotional damage and physical embarrassment with people I could run into any day. I can't justify taking time in my busy schedule to find someone I'd be willing to have sex with. When I'm on vacation I have more time, and when I'm in another city I'm confident I won't run into the other person again when I'm back to my normal life. When abroad I can afford to do something stupid and ultimately pointless for the excitement of the risk and the juicy story to brag about; at home it just isn't rational for me to interrupt my more productive life that way. 

 

Even when traveling, which I've done regularly over the past five years, it's lost its lustre for me, so I just haven't gotten around to it. I'm not repulsed by the idea. I'm not completely shutting it out as a way to disrupt my stable and functional life. But it hasn't been interesting enough to make it worth the effort. I've been through it a handful of times before, so the intellectual curiosity has waned. I was intrigued to find out if you felt your draw to have sex in a more consistent way, or if it was also dependent on a number of unusual factors that had very indirect motivations. It sounds like for a while you were in that space of not feeling it's worth the bother (as you said, for a couple of years), but that might be less consistent for you than it is for me, from what you've described. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gray-a girl
23 hours ago, SithGirl said:

Wow, that's snotty. I don't see what your problem is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Serran
On 10/25/2019 at 7:42 AM, gray-a girl said:

I think you kind of prove my point within your first few sentences. You said "my boyfriend is not aroused by every women he meets". Of course not! No sexual person is attracted to everyone! Thats pretty obvious. But you said "not aroused by every women he meets" which implies that, he is aroused by some women that he meets. Hence, my definition of sexual attraction being about being aroused by a person, fits. You don't have to be aroused by every member of that gender... just some.  I also think that if you talk to any sexual person that is not associated with the asexual community, you will get the same definition I am using. (I say not associated with the asexual community because people here have some strange ideas about things that are very specific to at least AVEN. They don't always match up with what the rest of the world thinks.)

I have talked to hundreds of sexuals about what counts, inside and outside of AVEN. Many within the context of what is a sexual person vs who would be different enough to not count as that label anymore. None of them would understand "I want sex, wouldnt be happy giving it up, but I am not sexual like you cause looking at people doesnt arouse me". And I know this because we regularly came to the conclusion sexual people vary a lot, but basically we all desire sex with an actual person for some reason. Even those of us who have lost desire (want it back so bad they go to doctors for it because they still want it, just their body wont respond right), or are scared, ashamed, or disgusted by it still have that internal drive to I cant be truly happy without sex in my life again. That is the only thing they could all agree on. 

 

I ID'd as asexual for fiveish years, because I had no attraction (didnt find people hot) beyond romantic appeal based on personality and trying to have sex was... boring at best, pointless, did nothing and just made me feel further apart from my partners. But, they wouldnt be happy never having sex again, so I had sex with them and ended up hating it to the point of repulsion developing. 

 

During that time and the following time of developing sexual desire for my wife (only person that sex has ever felt good with, everyone else might as well have been poking my tongue despite doing the same movements), I talked at length about sexuality with a lot of people. Then partners, here, people IRL, family, etc. I listened to their stories and their reasons for picking people. And they were all varied. That person aroused me was one experience, but not the only one. A lot of the times it was "I was horny and I trusted them to be safe", or other mundane reasons that had little to do with the person, especially not their appearance. 

 

So, no, we aren't disagreeing because we don't have experience. We just hold a different definition because we have experience and have talked to people and have researched it and have looked into it quite a lot and came to a different conclusion than you are.  It took me 15 years of being in relationships to figure out my sexuality. I guarantee I spent a lot of time talking to a lot of people, not just AVEN. 

 

You know a specific type of sexuals in your friend circle. We are varied. We desire sex for many, many reasons. Please don't do what you are yelling at people like sith for doing by telling us we have to fit your narrow definition of sexual attraction, cause that is what a sexual is. It isn't the only experience sexuals have. The reason sexual attraction cannot have a pinpointed definition is because you ask a bunch of people, you will get a bunch of definitions of what they feel when they experience sexual attraction. You don't get to define sexual and tell the rest of us we are too ignorant / strange to know our own orientation. 

 

You can choose your label for whatever reason you want. You can disagree with definitions. But it seems a tad... well, like pot kettle when you tell sexuals we dont know what we are talking about cause we are too strange and inexperienced with sexuals. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Serran

Oh and I am also in a few LGBT groups because I am still trying to work out what I am as far as gender based orientation (trans partner complicates that severely). And they all give their opinion on what label I fit in their opinion and no one takes offense to it... it is educating and helpful and people agree / disagree with no issues. They freely say I think you are or arent this or that respectfully and people thank them for providing opinions. AVEN is the only sexual minority group I have encountered that finds such interactions a negative. And I dont really get why.

 

Maybe because the admods / BoD have declared it as a negative so instead of helping to foster a respectful environment where people can discuss, exchange ideas, offer opinions and people see it isnt a mean thing and people feel heard on both sides and equal and can be respectful ... it gets hidden and punished and becomes this negative vibe by default with a lot of resentment coming through which is more aimed at the system than the users. 

 

I don't know. I wish AVEN could function more like LGBT groups seem to, where no one is silenced but respect is expected and the mediators keep it calm enough that free sharing of experiences and ideas is allowed, even when people disagree strongly. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Philip027
Quote

(I say not associated with the asexual community because people here have some strange ideas about things that are very specific to at least AVEN. They don't always match up with what the rest of the world thinks.)

While you're not wrong about that, I also don't think you're necessarily in the position to poke fun at them for it either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...