"Are Aces LGBTQIA+?" Masterpost

[Iam9man]

7 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

So far, I have felt more accepted in the LGBT community than here. Because I identify as a sex favorable asexual, I am frequently told that I am sexual, or that I am not asexual, and when I protest I get "well whats so wrong with being sexual, why do you have a problem with that?" I will explain it ad nasueum, why I identify as asexual, and why "sexual" really doesn't fit me at all, even though I'm sex favorable, but everything I say is just ignored completely. And I get again "You are sexual". 

I’m sorry you’ve had such a negative experience. Bear in mind it is a very vocal but tiny minority of AVEN members; most asexuals, in and off AVEN, don’t feel/behave that way. From my experience, LGBT+ groups don’t behave that way either, even if there can be judgemental people in online groups too.

 

7 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

I actually even hesitate to go to a local asexual meetup thats happening next month because I don't want it to be like AVEN.

I also know asexuals who’ve left AVEN and only come back so they can keep an eye on meet-ups. Most meet-ups are quite different, apparently. Very friendly and accepting.

 

7 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

I will also be going to a LGBT group affiliated with my religion this Sunday (Buddhism) so that should also be pretty interesting, to see the Buddhist take on non-typical orientations. I feel much more confident that I will be accepted at the LGBT group than at the local in person, asexuality meetup group.

Sounds amazing, enjoy!

[DarkStormyKnight]

So I like in person LGBT groups primarily because I get sick of being around straight people all the time and if I don't have any ace friends then usually my LGBT friends know enough about asexuality to understand what I'm going through a little more. On a more theoretical level I want aces to be accepted by the LGBT society because it's additional support and acceptance. We're a pretty tiny community when it comes down to it, so we do need the larger group. Also, I consider all aces/aros to be LGBT if they want to identify that way since we don't fit into the heterosexual experience.

[Cole's Username]

I think there's a reason some people substitute LGBT+ with Gender and Romantic Minorities. Asexuals definitely fit the bill of that definition, and really although it's about a lack of attraction vs others being about what their attraction is, a lack of attraction is still a type of attraction. LBGT+ is (generally,) supposed to be all inclusive of minority genders like hermaphrodites or transgenders, hence their inclusion despite their being able to be possibly straight instead of gay or lesbian or pan, etc. The point is I believe that LGBT+'s goals are the same as AVEN's goals, and that we're already included within the group by definition.

[KoiFishShoes]

Spoiler

 

@Cole's Username, you may not know this yet, but we use the term intersex, not hermaphrodites.

[Cole's Username]

Just now, KoiFishShoes said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

@Cole's Username, you may not know this yet, but we use the term intersex, not hermaphrodites.

Thanks for the clarification, that'll help me avoid offending others or making conversations awkward in the future 😁

[Internetlionboy]

Eh I just like being apart of a community where I could meet others that would accept me and I don't feel less alone especially since I'm not cis or straight and yeah ghsdjfhsd

[Skycaptain]

I can think of a couple of reasons why many asexuals want to be part of the LGBT+ community. In the first place asexuality is a minority organisation as well. Secondly many who identify as Asexual also feature in LGBT for their gender and romantic identity amongst other reasons. 

Pride parades, for example, also give people a freedom to express themselves in a manner they may not be able to do in day to day life - dressing up, face painting etc

[SithLord]

I like LGBT+ spaces because of the active discourse around things like differing sexualities and experiences. How our identities play into our larger selves. In straight spaces you don't really get that. I relate to the larger group because they know what it's like to be assumed as one thing but identify as something else. To be "the good straight girl who is very close to her female friends and isn't dating right now" while actually being a lesbian or bisexual whose family doesn't accept them. The frustration is real.

 

In the larger stuff like PRIDE parades, I want asexuality to be visible. If we're not LGBT+ and we're definitely not straight, would we make our own parade? Who would even go to it? Who would even care?

 

We're also a small community. Even trying to go to a meet-up, I've only met 6 other asexuals in real life. That doesn't leave me a lot of choices if I wanted to choose a community to be involved in. I love AVEN, but as soon as I step away from my computer, it's gone. Other than my sister, there are no asexuals I interact with regularly. Who, then, do I choose to align myself with?

 

Most of my friends are straight. If I counted all of my friends over the last ten years, I can say only three have been not straight. But I still feel more comfortable aligning myself with GRSM or LGBT things because their lives have not been the same as mine. My straight friends have been empathetic, but my non-straight friends have actually understood. 

[doggalogga]

I personally have no interest in the LGBT+ community.

I am not interested in socio-political movements.

 

I just love being part of the ace community, meeting like-minded people and finding solace in being able to share my experiences without fear of judgement.

As being ace is isolating, to find like-minded people is just great.

 

Labels otherwise have little meaning to me. I just am what I am. I eat cake and ice cream, and I still enjoy watching cartoons.

[Memento1]

On 10/14/2019 at 5:27 PM, gray-a girl said:

So far, I have felt more accepted in the LGBT community than here. Because I identify as a sex favorable asexual, I am frequently told that I am sexual, or that I am not asexual, and when I protest I get "well whats so wrong with being sexual, why do you have a problem with that?" I will explain it ad nasueum, why I identify as asexual, and why "sexual" really doesn't fit me at all, even though I'm sex favorable, but everything I say is just ignored completely. And I get again "You are sexual".

God, gray-a girl, I so resonated with your post.  I left AVEN years ago because of so many toxic and invalidating people.  I recently returned and I've seen some of the people (and attitudes) still here, but I'm MUCH more careful nowadays to stay away from their gatekeeping threads.  All I can say is they are a small but very vocal minority - there are many very accepting and kind people here, so I seek out the corners where they are.  This happened in the LGBT+ community too: some gays fought long and bitterly to keep bisexuals out and so forth.  The reason is people fear invalidation themselves if their box starts to include people not like them, and this fear (exacerbated by being invalidated in sexual groups) comes out in really terrible ways.  I don't agree with it but I can see these people are in deep pain.

 

I can also say I went to two ace meetups and no one there was remotely like that - in fact most were extremely shy.  As always, the internet is an inaccurate representation of real life.

[gray-a girl]

2 hours ago, Memento1 said:

God, gray-a girl, I so resonated with your post.  I left AVEN years ago because of so many toxic and invalidating people.  I recently returned and I've seen some of the people (and attitudes) still here, but I'm MUCH more careful nowadays to stay away from their gatekeeping threads.  All I can say is they are a small but very vocal minority - there are many very accepting and kind people here, so I seek out the corners where they are.  This happened in the LGBT+ community too: some gays fought long and bitterly to keep bisexuals out and so forth.  The reason is people fear invalidation themselves if their box starts to include people not like them, and this fear (exacerbated by being invalidated in sexual groups) comes out in really terrible ways.  I don't agree with it but I can see these people are in deep pain.

 

I can also say I went to two ace meetups and no one there was remotely like that - in fact most were extremely shy.  As always, the internet is an inaccurate representation of real life.

Thank you, that was very helpful to hear that.

[twetzel59]

Well, I am not active IRL in my college's LGBTQ+ community, but I do get its newsletter and participate in it's online chats, because they are openly inclusive of aces (to the point of handing out ace flags and including us as an option on surveys, etc. I have met several others aces online in my hometown through this link.

 

It makes me feel so much more valid. Just knowing that they accept me feels good, because I only know of about 20 asexuals, but over 200 LGBT+ people, based on the size of online communities targeting my University.

 

That said, I feel like I'm on the "fringe" of the LGBT+ community. I wouldn't fly the rainbow flag because I'd feel like I'm coöpting their community. I haven't lived the gay, lesbian, or transgender struggle, and out of respect for it I won't act like I have.

 

Of course, being ace does feel awful lonely sometimes, and that's why I take advantage of some of the more "open" LGBTQ+ resources.

 

@Grimalkin Am I correct that you identify as straight? I do not, because my sexual orientation is ace, not hetero. I do consider myself heteroromantic, but by telling people I'm not straight I instantly filter out people that are uncomfortable with my identity. Those that remain interested are usually grey pan or other aces.

[Grimalkin]

I dunno, man. I am romantically, aesthetically, sensually attracted to men and only men. I continue to date men and have sex with them, even though the sex doesn't do anything for me. I may eventually settle down with a man and have children, fingers crossed. 

 

So... I don't really feel like anything LGBT+. I just sort of feel like a nun. Like I'm a straight cis person who just happens to be missing sexual attraction.

 

All that said, if I use "straight ace" it's because I'm lazy and I experience a weird dyslexic moment when I try to type "heteromantic asexual." (Lol, messed it up as I was typing.) I only use it online, not IRL. When I do "come out" (as... a person who doesn't enjoy the sex she has with her boyfriend?), I still use asexual. 

[AspieAlly613]

The message "You're not one of us" is usually a bad one.

[Zagadka]

On a basic level, people like belonging to a group, and LGBTQ+ is a group of people frequently specifically excluded from other groups. That makes a tight community.

 

I like it because of the education. People, even adults, struggle with identity their entire lives, but we are just now entering an age where developing people are not only allowed to but encouraged to identify however they feel like. It is exceedingly healthy, and we're seeing explosions in gender identity as people aren't being forced into two categories anymore. It isn't like this everywhere, of course, but it is growing, and I am excited for the kids growing up today who will have more chances to be happy. It isn't a guarantee to be happy, but it is a relief that allows you to concentrate on other problems.

 

My view of asexuality in the LGBTQ+ spectrum is the idea of someone not needing to feel broken, like I and many others have for much of our lives. I was, and I've seen many stories of others, who were so relieved and happy to find out that it is all OK, that this is a thing people can feel, and I want to let other people feel that freedom.

[PoeciMeta]

Meh? I see the LGBT+ community as a a big group that can include anyone who isn't cishet. That's... very broad. The togetherness behind it is nice, but while I technically do fall under that umbrella, it's not really a part of my identity, like my glasses, we can find so many ways of classifying ourselves and some are more important than others. And sometimes it's just a bit weird, because gay love and straight love are equally foreign to me, so I don't really feel much kinship with gay people... yeah, maybe the ''non-cishet'' category is a bit too broad. It's cool, though. Rainbows are nice

 

I guess my attitude would depend on the context. If just 'not-cishet' is enough to say 'not interested', I'll go with that, because 'aro-ace' is too specific to be : 1. universally understandable and acceptable and 2. any of their business. On AVEN, it's relevant, so I can be more specific and the 'not-cishet' is implied so I leave it out.

H. sapiens is sufficient to place me in the tree of life, I don't need to make a point to tell everyone that I don't feed on sunlight. Unless the person thinks I should be able to (metaphor for the people who don't accept ace as LGBT+ because they're 'just lacking sexual attraction', are 'childish or prudes, it's not an orientation' and 'should try being straight, they'll see' or some stupidity of that flavour) 

 

But the flag is cool. I'd fly that. 

[gray-a girl]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:00 AM, Internetlionboy said:

ghsdjfhsd

what does ghsdjifhsd mean? This is the second time I've seen it used here.

[œddy]

16 minutes ago, gray-a girl said:

what does ghsdjifhsd mean? This is the second time I've seen it used here.

I'm gonna take a stab at it being similar to asdffdgasdf as all those keys are within reach of the left hand and close together

Its a feeling you cannot express in words, but can mash the keyboard to try your best 😋

[Snao Cone]

1 hour ago, gray-a girl said:

what does ghsdjifhsd mean? This is the second time I've seen it used here.

Garlic hummus sounds delightful; just ingested five humongous side dishes. 

 

(or maybe it doesn't stand for that...but now I want hummus) 

[Iam9man]

22 minutes ago, Snao van der Cone said:

but now I want hummus

Just to be clear: Garlic or plain hummus?

[Snao Cone]

30 minutes ago, Iam9man said:

Just to be clear: Garlic or plain hummus?

All hummus orientations are welcome. (but garlic thoh, yum) 

[gray-a girl]

1 hour ago, Snao van der Cone said:

Garlic hummus sounds delightful; just ingested five humongous side dishes. 

 

(or maybe it doesn't stand for that...but now I want hummus) 

lmao!!

[Internetlionboy]

NO it's key smashing and that's just another way of laughing like lmao and lol it also sounds like laughing, too and just yeah

[Internetlionboy]

6 hours ago, œddy said:

I'm gonna take a stab at it being similar to asdffdgasdf as all those keys are within reach of the left hand and close together

Its a feeling you cannot express in words, but can mash the keyboard to try your best 😋

yes it can be used as that, too! it's just my way of showing laughter

[Guest]

On 6/16/2019 at 3:23 AM, den230n_ said:

Do you really need to hold their flag (I don't mean, that their flag is something wrong. I mean, we have our own flag)?

I don't identify with the rainbow flag either, mostly because it was created during the gay rights movement and I don't want to steal what I see as the gay flag. Also, I like the look of the ace flag better, but that's just me.

[Cazz333]

On 6/16/2019 at 1:10 PM, Tansu said:

This. Just this. Also I'm glad you understood your mistakes and moved one.

 

Forgive me for any typos or bad grammar, English isn't my first language.

 

When it comes to myself, I knew LGBT+ long before and discovered and finally decided to join AVEN. It taught me a lot about other people's sexualities and gender identity, about my own too. I've met many amazing people who were very supportive, encouraging me to walk proudly, holding asexual flag. My journey started at being cisgender heteroromantic, then panromantic for a while. And now... look. I call myself a non-binary lesbian on asexual spectrum, and yet of all these labels the asexual one is the closest to my heart. I doubt I'd realise it so quickly if I wasn't active in LGBT+. I don't understand exclucionists who have negative reaction every time they see our beautiful four stripes on LGBT+ events. In fact, the history shows we were part of the acronym from the very beginning - it is nothing but AVEN which was created later. I stand for any ace who wants to be LGBT+ no matter the reason. Cisgender heteroromantic, bi/homo/panromantic, transgender, non-binary - who cares? The discourse won't give us, neither non-asexuals, anything good. We should support each other.

Sources?

[layabout]

I think we are, the first person who helped me come to terms with my sexuality was bi and I've had lots of friends in the LGBT community. There is also the part where I am a sexual minority. And while I might not relate to all of their experiences, a gay person isn't going to relate to the experiences of a trans person entirely either, so why does it have to be different for us?

[Paca ermito]

I came of age in the 1980s.  Though I find @Kuebiko's history above fascinating, and I see no reason to doubt that "asexual" may have been used in fairly technical literature as early as they indicate, I can tell you that I (who grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, and was exposed to a lot of information about "alternative lifestyles" that most Americans, at least, were not exposed to at the time) originally identified as "gay", because "asexual" was absolutely not an identity that I had ever heard of.  Indeed, I first heard of it only in the past decade (though, without having a word for it, I knew that was what I was quite early on).

 

This thread is very interesting to me.  As someone who was pretty deeply involved in "gay", then "gay and Lesbian", then "Lesbian and gay", then "LGB", then "LGBT" and/or "queer" culture in the 80s and 90s, I have to say that it reminds me a lot of discussions about whether bisexuals and trans people were/should be part of "our" culture.  Indeed, especially when I was first getting involved, there was a lot of discussion about whether or not it even made any sense to lump gay men and Lesbians together.  Some believed "we are essentially the same; we're all people who are attracted to our own sex", while others felt "we are completely different; you are attracted to men, while we are attracted to women".

 

Personally, I was always on the side of inclusion.  Whatever you want to call your community, I see no reason to exclude someone who feels themselves to be a part of it.  Community is not a finite concept.  You don't run out of it if you let too many people in.  It just grows.

 

Over the years I have encountered more people in the LGBTQIPAA+ (or whatever anyone has called it) community who were welcoming of all who wished to join the community, than I have people who wanted to exclude others.  However, there always have been some who prefer to exclude.  Sometimes, in some pockets of the community, those exclusionary voices gain ascendance, but in my experience that seldom lasts long.

[Joi ❤]

I think the Asexual community should be separate from the LGBTQ community. Frankly, I think each corresponding community should work separately for their specific issues and join together under the name of LGBTQ as allies. The separate communities focusing on specific and more community focused issues and the broader community working as a big tent event helping all communities with gaining visibility, advocacy, support, mutual understanding, etc (I see the LGBTQ community like this already, but I think it should be clearly stated as such and presented like this to society as a whole). It just seems less cluttered this way.

[YellowCakeKo.]

Are cisgendered heteroromantic asexuals considered part of the LGBTQIA+ community? I’ve started to identify as a heteroromantic ace and I happen to be cis. But what’s very conflicting is I’m seeing people who are asexual or even some part of the LGBT+ community basically say they aren’t LGBT+ and “cishet” and it seems that numerous people agree. Seeing this is really off-putting, makes me confused, and I feel invalidated. I hope this doesn’t come across as if I’m trying to be oppressed in some way- but that’s just how I feel. I don’t know how we can be cishet anyway because I thought that means you’re heteroromantic AND heterosexual. Which we are not. I’ve also seen people say that cis ace aro’s, and cis aro heterosexuals are not LGBTQIA+. This makes me fearful of coming out and being confident in my orientation. This is really sad because for people who are newly coming to terms with their orientation, this could just discourage them. I just need to know if we’re considered LGBTQIA+ so I know to keep my mouth shut or not.. I really hope this didn’t come off as defensive or anything like that, I’m just confused is all.