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What being a sex favorable asexual means to me


gray-a girl

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I don’t really know why you’re regurgitating at me your list of “symptoms”, @gray-a girl, when anyone who knows what’s what would know damn well that it’s not the symptoms but the reasons behind the symptoms that make a fear into a phobia, or an anxiety into an anxiety disorder.

 

I’d think it’s quite apparent that you don’t know what you’re talking about – not when it comes to psychology, nor when you talk about asexuality.

 

But go on, tell us more about what a wonderful, magical, compulsory thing sex is. Asexuals never hear enough of that stuff.

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6 hours ago, GlamRocker said:

@gray-a girl I hate to be the one to tell you Santa ain't real, but... sex has no value to anyone but sexual people. The fact that you think the sex repulsed should "work on it" because they're "missing out on the magic that is sex!" proves you're sexual. Because you VALUE SEX.  

And actually, I hate to tell you, but sex has nothing to do with asexuality, especially if you have a phobia and thats why you are avoiding it. Truth is, YOU are not asexual. If you were you wouldn't need to tell other people that they are not. You are obviously insecure in your identity, and you are obviously defining asexuality as fear/grossed outness about sex, rather than as a lack of sexual attraction. (If you defined asexuality as a lack of sexual attraction, you would not be invalidating my own asexuality). People like YOU are the whole reason I have even brought up this phobia of sex thing. I don't think anyone who feels sexual attraction to people but avoids sex because it scares them, is asexual. Sorry, just not asexual. You are sexual, because you find people attractive. But thing is? I'd keep my mouth shut and never bring this up, if people would just stop invalidating my own asexuality. Because if people respect me, I respect them. 

 

6 hours ago, GlamRocker said:

@gray-a girl I also don't know why you don't seem to want identify as a sexual person. Sexual people are cool. The only reason I don't identify as a sexual person is because no matter how much I feel like I have in common with sexual people, I know that I don't desire sexual connections and so will reject all of them. Sexual people aren't like that. It is a significant difference.

Lets see.... I don't know, because I don't find people attractive? I don't ever look at anyone and ever get turned on, ever. I have dumped so many people because "I am not attracted to you". I also don't like kissing people. I have only fallen in love in my early thirties because of HOW DIFFICULT it was for me to date, when I found nobody attractive. I have just come to the conclusion that, I will not have that magical sexual turn on feeling for other people that people who are sexual get. (For example, I was just cuddling with a guy earlier this week. I could tell he was getting really turned on, heart racing, got hard, etc. Me? I felt nothing. No turn on whatsoever.) And actually, while I am not afraid of male or female sexual parts, sometimes it can be gross when fluids are involved. But, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy sexual activity, because I like to orgasm. Sorry, although I understand now that my identity as a sex favorable asexual threatens you, the reality is that I just do not fit the box of sexuality. I have not had experiences of sexual people, and I have not had relationships that look like sexual people's. That is why I identify as asexual. Because asexuality isn't based on what you do, but like any other orientation, it is based on who you are or are not attracted to. In my case, no one.

Would you like it if I started saying you are sexual? When you feel like it's not true? Would you like it if I invalidated all of your difficulties? Again people like you are why I've even brought up this thing. If you start calling me sexual, I will do it right back at you, and I have science behind me, while you do not. If you are scared of sex, and have a racing heart beat because of sex (and I bet you do because otherwise you wouldn't have responded to my earlier post), sorry you are probably not asexual. Fear easily kills a sex drive and sexual attraction, even for sexual people.. Since you are attacking my asexuality, I am going to assume the truth: you are defining asexuality not as a lack of sexual attraction, because you probably have that, but as a fear of sex. THAT is the only reason you would ever invalidate my own identity as asexual. Because my identity as a sex favorable asexual threatens you. But the thing is, just because you fear sex, doesn't make you asexual.

 

 

5 hours ago, Whatsis said:

I don’t really know why you’re regurgitating at me your list of “symptoms”, @gray-a girl, when anyone who knows what’s what would know damn well that it’s not the symptoms but the reasons behind the symptoms that make a fear into a phobia, or an anxiety into an anxiety disorder.

 

I’d think it’s quite apparent that you don’t know what you’re talking about – not when it comes to psychology, nor when you talk about asexuality.

 

But go on, tell us more about what a wonderful, magical, compulsory thing sex is. Asexuals never hear enough of that stuff.

Actually, you are not correct, it does not matter what the phobia is about, it still counts as a phobia if you have those symptoms. Thats just reality. You don't have to believe me, but ask ANY psychologist or psychiatrist.... you will find what I am saying is accurate. But you know, if you feel sexual attraction to people, but you are terrified of sex, all I'm saying is, you might find you actually enjoy it and can live a sexual life without the complications of asexuality if you get treatment for your disorder. Fear can be overcome. True asexuality, can not be.

 

Again: Attack my asexuality, and you are only exposing the reality that you are not asexual, because you are defining asexuality as a fear of sex,  rather than as a lack of sexual attraction.

Thing is, if you fear sex, you can overcome that. You may choose not to and thats your choice. If you call yourself asexual and fear sex, then even if I don't think in my mind that you are, I will respect your identity. I will not invalidate you if you respect my identity. And functionally you'd be essentially asexual anyway, even if in reality you're not. But I would never say this to you unless someone attacks my asexuality, and invalidates the trouble I've had. As I said, I think the only people who are attacking my asexuality are the ones who feel insecure in their own identity. Deep down, you know what I say is true. Maybe not consciously, but it's there. Otherwise, you wouldn't be invalidating my asexuality in the first place. You wouldn't be so threatened by it that you need to be disrespectful and invalidate me and the issues I've had. You'd be respectful of how I identify. You don't have to agree in your head, but you do need to be respectful of people and not tell them what their orientation is, when you've never even met them or lived in their shoes.

 

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Truth is, YOU are not asexual. If you were you wouldn't need to tell other people that they are not.

Logical+Fallacy+17+-+No+True+Scotsman.pn

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Let me all say, the desperateness that you all attack my identity as, only goes to show how terrified you are of me being right: That you have a phobia and are not really asexual.

And I do want to say this, to people who are sex repulsed and are not experiencing phobic symptoms, I am not talking about you in any of this. But I suspect you'd be more likely to be respectful of my own identity, even if you can't understand it, because you would not be so desperately trying to avoid the thing you are phobic of.

 

The problem with me saying that some people are masking what is a phobia with the label of asexuality? Because maybe, just maybe, the idea comes across that you'd have to deal with your phobia and you just don't want to, it's too terrifying. Plus, the idea of having a mental illness, in your mind, make you feel like a bad person, or like you're broken, etc.

Truth is, thats just stigma talking. If you have an anxiety disorder like a phobia of sex, there is nothing wrong with you as a person! Many great people have anxiety disorders. It doesn't make you any less of a person. The other truth? If you can find other asexual people to date, or you are aromantic, you really don't have to deal with your phobia. It's not like having a phobia of something like driving. I only say, you may be missing out, not only because sexual stuff can be fun, but also because (more importantly) it is very difficult to date people who are ok with not having sex. So even more than sex being fun or not, you are limiting yourself to a much smaller pool of people. Why do this if you don't need to? But, I suppose if you're fear is that terrible, you'd rather limit yourself. Thats what phobias can do to people. Of course, if you are aromantic, then you're all set, you have no need to tackle this, and I'd say, why even bother overcoming the phobia if you are aromantic? There is no need.

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@gray-a girl

 

lol

 

You should have read some of my old posts before making such a claim, for you have made yourself look silly!

 

I'm not sex repulsed. Or nudity adverse or can't get aroused or have some mental problem or whatever nonsense you'll pull out of your hat NEXT. Truth is, I'm one of those "gold star" type asexuals... you know, healthy, good looking, well adjusted, fuck, I'm MARRIED...  and obviously I have bangin self esteem lol

yadda yadda

 

I just don't have any sexual needs or interests. Which, GUESS WHAT, means I choose not to have sex. They say this is because I lack sexual attraction. How do you know? Because you don't enjoy sex with people you aren't sexually attracted to. It's a pretty 1+ 1 = 2 type situation. Or else people would be having sex with people they aren't attracted to all the time and there would be no INCEL community. And a whole HELL of a lot more incest.

 

Anyway, you're taking a crazy amount of offense to all of this for no reason. I don't care if you identify as asexual. There just doesn't seem to be any point to doing so for you, since your lifestyle choices are more like those of sexual people. It seems like it would be of much greater benefit to you to identify as a sexual person.

 

Also, you've been a bit nasty about all of this, which makes me suspect you have some sort of aversion to being thought of as a sexual person. Which makes me think you actually look DOWN on sexuality. Well, there's ain't nothing wronnnnnnnnnng with a little bump n griiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind

 

as long as I'm not in it lol it's like trying to jerk off a table or a stool or something for me.

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2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Logical+Fallacy+17+-+No+True+Scotsman.pn

I am not doing that. I am basing my argument that people who attack my asexuality are not really asexual, because a) thats what insecure people do and b) they are defining asexuality as a lack of an interest in sexual activity/orgasming, rather than a lack of sexual attraction. If they defined it as a lack of sexual attraction, by identity as asexual would not be invalidated or attacked.

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I am basing my argument that people who attack my asexuality are not really asexual, because a) thats what insecure people do

That is literally what the "no true Scotsman" fallacy is.

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1 minute ago, GlamRocker said:

@gray-a girl

 

lol

 

You should have read some of my old posts before making such a claim, for you have made yourself look silly!

 

I'm not sex repulsed. Or nudity adverse or can't get aroused or have some mental problem or whatever nonsense you'll pull out of your hat NEXT. Truth is, I'm one of those "gold star" type asexuals... you know, healthy, good looking, well adjusted, fuck, I'm MARRIED...  and obviously I have bangin self esteem lol

yadda yadda

 

I just don't have any sexual needs or interests. Which, GUESS WHAT, means I choose not to have sex. They say this is because I lack sexual attraction. How do you know? Because you don't enjoy sex with people you aren't sexually attracted to. It's a pretty 1+ 1 = 2 type situation. Or else people would be having sex with people they aren't attracted to all the time and there would be no INCEL community. And a whole HELL of a lot more incest.

 

Anyway, you're taking a crazy amount of offense to all of this for no reason. I don't care if you identify as asexual. There just doesn't seem to be any point to doing so for you, since your lifestyle choices are more like those of sexual people. It seems like it would be of much greater benefit to you to identify as a sexual person.

 

Also, you've been a bit nasty about all of this, which makes me suspect you have some sort of aversion to being thought of as a sexual person. Which makes me think you actually look DOWN on sexuality. Well, there's ain't nothing wronnnnnnnnnng with a little bump n griiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind

 

as long as I'm not in it lol it's like trying to jerk off a table or a stool or something for me.

I am nasty about this because I HAVE BEEN INVALIDATED SO MANY TIMES ON THIS SITE. AGAIN YOU JUST DID IT. Only insecure people will invalidate others, (unless in my case, its just a bit of tit for tat.)

I do not look down on sexual people. Why would I? Actually I am envious of them. I think they get more out of relationships than I do. I wish I was sexual.

 

It does matter, because, how I react and act in a relationship is not what is expected of people. Things that would turn me on if I were sexual, are just not doing it. I also need to know this for myself, so that I can date, and not expect something that won't happen. 

There are things in the LGBT community, especially in the trans/ gender identity area, that I just do not understand, it does not make sense to me. But I would never dare tell the person that they are not how they feel, that their identity is wrong. How can I know what their life is like? I can't, I'm not them. They have a reason for identifying the way they do, so I respect that, even if I don't understand it. 

I only wish people on this site would treat me like this. You don't have to understand my experiences, heck you don't even have to agree with them in your head, but you do need to be respectful and not invalidate my experiences and my orientation. So am I nasty about this? You bet I am.

And no, I do not think you are confident, otherwise, why attack someone else's identity? Or maybe its arrogance. You think you know better than me. You don't even know what I look like, but you can decide what my orientation  is. If that isn't the epitome of arrogance, I don't know what is. But arrogance, they say, is deep down, insecurity. 

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6 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

Um... that's a big NO from me on this post.

 

OP.... Your lack of understanding of how sex-repulsed asexuals operate is very... um... astonishing and not in a good way.

 

The only time, an asexual needs to work/lessen on their sex-repulsion is when the mere mention of the word "sex" makes it difficult for them to do simple things like school, university, work or whatever.

I am not putting ALL sex-repulsed asexuals into this argument. I think there are some, that really just get mildy grossed out of sex. But, I have met and read stuff from people, here and elsewhere, where they are saying "I am terrified of sex" or "My heart races when I think of sex" or "I vomit just from looking at a picture of genitalia".

THAT is a phobia. Being grossed out by sexual parts, but not experiencing these symptoms, (truly sex repulsed) is not the same as this. Sexual organs can be kind of gross, especially when fluids are involved. But having phobic symptoms is a different story.

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@gray-a girl Look, no one wants to hurt your feelings. It's just not easy to hear things that make no sense and not say something about it. In fact, I'm saying these things to you because I actually think it could help. If you pursue sex, calling yourself asexual has no real value to you.

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Just now, GlamRocker said:

@gray-a girl Look, no one wants to hurt your feelings. It's just not easy to hear things that make no sense and not say something about it. In fact, I'm saying these things to you because I actually think it could help. If you pursue sex, calling yourself asexual has no real value to you.

STOP FRIGGIN INVALIDATING ME YOU.....$$$$! I AM SO FRIGGIN SICK OF IT! 

 

It does have value to me. So shut the mess up, go home and do something else. I am tired of repeating myself as to why it has value. Obviously you have some issues because you are not reading what I am saying.

I don't know why I even bother with this website. Gay people are more accepting of me. 

 

You are not hurting my feelings, you are pissing me off. Because you are so rude and arrogent to tell people how to identify. How many times can i say? I have had problems dating because of a lack of sexual attraction. Are you just not defining asexuality as a lack of sexual attraction? Does that not compute for you? Hence why I say, something isn't right for you, because if you only define asexuality as a lack of interest in sexual activity, then perhaps you are not asexual.

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By saying I am sexual, you are basically saying that all the issues I had, well... there was no reason for them. Maybe I had no issues, no difficulties. You are invalidating the problems I have had in dating, because of my lack of attraction.

 

PLUS you are very arrogent.

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Only insecure people will invalidate others, (unless in my case, its just a bit of tit for tat.)

Oh yeah, it's fine for you to do it, but if anyone else does it to you, they're just being insecure:rolleyes:

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@gray-a girl Lots of people have difficulties with intimacy, relationships, libido... asexuality is not the cause of them most of the time. Asexuality is at the extreme end of sexuality, where it stops existing. There's nothing wrong with however you want to identify, anyway. i mean, I assume you identify as graysexual, anyway, which isn't the same as asexual and makes a lot more sense for what you're trying to communicate.

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16 minutes ago, GlamRocker said:

@gray-a girl Lots of people have difficulties with intimacy, relationships, libido... asexuality is not the cause of them most of the time. Asexuality is at the extreme end of sexuality, where it stops existing. There's nothing wrong with however you want to identify, anyway. i mean, I assume you identify as graysexual, anyway, which isn't the same as asexual and makes a lot more sense for what you're trying to communicate.

Technically I am gray- a not because I'm sex favorable, but because I know what attraction is supposed to feel like, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've experienced it. But, it's how I know I'm not sexual. I know what its supposed to feel like. And actually, some of those may have been more kink focused than person focused, its hard to remember since it was so long ago.

But it's been over ten years since I've felt attraction to anyone. So, while technically if you look at my whole life, gray-a fits better, I find asexuality in general to be a more useful definition because it is how I am now. Plus, allosexual people understand asexuality better than gray-a. I do need to inform anyone I date, that I am asexual, so that they don't get confused about the way I react the way I do or why I interact with them the way I do. And also so I don't have to continually pretend to be turned on by things that don't turn me on. I used to do that ALL the time, its almost become a habit, but its one I'm trying to break.

It's true that I don't have the problem of denying a sexual sex, because I don't want it. (And essentially forcing any sexual people I date into celibacy or to look for a third partner). That's not an issue for me. That must be a hard predicament to be in, for sure. But I do have other kinds of problems, like not being turned on by things that should be turning me on. 

And actually, its not really a lack of libido. I do have a low libido now (probably, hopefully, do to lack of use) but even when my libido was much higher, I still wasn't turned on by people, only kink. And generally speaking, kink is just not easy to do by yourself.

But you know, it's ok. It's pretty nasty for so many people on here to invalidate someones orientation, but you know what? I don't care. I don't need to be upset about it anymore. You can say I'm sexual all you want, it doesn't make it true. So I will just ignore people like that. There are plenty of people on here who do respect my orientation.

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Alejandrogynous

That's a nifty little way to never have to examine your own beliefs, just assume anyone who questions you must be mentally ill and thus anything they say is invalid. Sure seems less stressful than having to consider what other people are actually saying.

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1 minute ago, Alejandrogynous said:

That's a nifty little way to never have to examine your own beliefs, just assume anyone who questions you must be mentally ill and thus anything they say is invalid. Sure seems less stressful than having to consider what other people are actually saying.

Actually, no. I think there are definitely sex repulsed asexuals that really are asexual and sex repulsed. And that do not have a mental illness. I do think, however, that there are people here who are using asexuality as a way to deal with their phobia more than anything else. I never would have even thought this, though, if I hadn't seen some people talking about some of the anxiety and phobia symptoms they experience.

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Alejandrogynous
7 minutes ago, gray-a girl said:

Actually, no. I think there are definitely sex repulsed asexuals that really are asexual and sex repulsed. And that do not have a mental illness. I do think, however, that there are people here who are using asexuality as a way to deal with their phobia more than anything else. I never would have even thought this, though, if I hadn't seen some people talking about some of the anxiety and phobia symptoms they experience.

You can think that, it's just interesting that it's your defense toward people questioning your definition of asexuality. They can't possibly have a point, it has to be because they feel threatened by you.

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Mackenzie Holiday

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is getting less productive as time goes on? There are a lot of important things being discussed here, but I don't think the way they're being discussed at this point is healthy or helpful for anyone.

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In my book, anyone who meets the attraction definition and/or desire definition, and who honestly and thoughtfully relates to the term and wants to adopt it, can usefully and accurately refer to themselves as asexual. Past, present or future behaviour or medical status have no bearing on this.

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Can we all keep to the topic at hand, rather than trading snipes. 

Skycaptain moderator PPS 

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Right! Back to the topic.

 

So, being a sex-favorable asexual can mean: loving sex and seeking it out for your own pleasure, just as long as you’re not ~attracted~ to your partner's physique. Well, maybe you might have experienced ~attraction~ a couple of times, but that was a while ago and who really knows what that was all about anyways. Maybe you call yourself “gray-a” sometimes, but it’s easier to round up. Except it’s not easy at all, because oh the troubles I’ve seen, and it’s difficulties in dating that truly define asexuality when it comes down to it, doesn’t it. You're very secure in your identity, not at all like all those deeply insecure people who might dare question you.

 

That’s fine. Nice to meet you and thanks, it’s been a ride. Shine on, you!

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everywhere and nowhere

I wanted to propose one thing: maybe we should specify the rules about telling people their orientation? On the one hand, I often see the reservation that users shouldn't outright tell others what is their orientation - it should rather be a suggestion, such as "It seems that you might be ......., but only you can decide yourself". On the other hand, in another topic about the phenomenon of desire without attraction, I have seen people say that yes, it's completely in concordance with AVEN's and the forum's mission of educating about asexuality, to tell someone that "there's nothing asexual about that" if they seem to identify as asexual due to misunderstanding what asexuality means?

I hate being a gatekeeper. I believe that people who experience desire without attraction, at the very least, have a right to use the forum. But it doesn't mean that I have no issues with this phenomenon.

  • At least some people from the "desire without attraction" crowd seem to assume that sexual attraction can only be based on appearance, which is absurd.
  • If someone "only has sex because they enjoy orgasms", it also doesn't seem substantially different from sex without a deeper bond.
  • A very strong insistence on sexual attraction only (which, by itself, requires defining sexual attraction) as the basis of asexual identification invalidates sex-averse asexuals. It is just unsafe, unpleasant, potentially triggering for such people. It reminds me of what I have seen in another topic of this kind: when asexuality is watered down, when the obvious statement that "aces can have sex" becomes "aces can love sex" - where do asexuals who won't have sex go? Some asexuals just wouldn't have sex ever, under any circumstances and if sex becomes expected even of asexuals, the asexual community becomes no longer safe for us. I don't know if I'm asexual. I'm definitely very strongly sex-averse and therefore "effectively asexual" seems a good enough description. But I use it to point out exactly this: that I don't want to have sex with anyone, under any circumstances. I just want my choice to never try "curing" my sex aversion, my preference to remain effectively asexual and not care about the supposed wonders of sex which I just don't desire anyway, to be respected.

On the other hand, gray-area issues should be acknowledged. Yes, asexuality fits well into the model of sexual orientations (heterosexual - psychosexually attracted to people of different sex, homosexual - of same sex, bisexual - of both same and different sex, asexual - to neither) and this model is absolutely necessary to remind bigots that different-sex love is not the only possibility. But it doesn't mean that only the gender of people we potentially desire (or don't) matters in defining our sexuality. For example, the OP mentions kink... and it is a clearly existing phenomenon that some people, particularly in the kink/BDSM/fetish scene, identify with certain sexual practices more than with being attracted to people of a particular gender. Saying only "OK, so if the partner's gender doesn't matter to them, they are still effectively bisexual" waters it down as much. Yes, preferences are a more tricky and more private aspect of sexuality. Here in Poland homophobes love accusing participants of gay pride demonstrations (or even gays and lesbians in general) of "flaunting their sexuality" and can't notice that in fact, LGBT+ people are just fighting for equality and recognition and their "flaunting their sexuality" is the same what these homophobes might themselves do when mentioning their wife or husband. So people should have an obvious right to speak about such aspects of their private lives if they choose so, they shouldn't be forced to hide whom they love. However, sexual preferences and sexual practices are, generally, not a thing to discuss in public. But it shouldn't be used to invalidate people who identify more with particular sexual preferences than with an orientation gender-wise.

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1 hour ago, Nowhere Girl said:

A very strong insistence on sexual attraction only (which, by itself, requires defining sexual attraction) as the basis of asexual identification invalidates sex-averse asexuals. It is just unsafe, unpleasant, potentially triggering for such people. It reminds me of what I have seen in another topic of this kind: when asexuality is watered down, when the obvious statement that "aces can have sex" becomes "aces can love sex" - where do asexuals who won't have sex go? Some asexuals just wouldn't have sex ever, under any circumstances and if sex becomes expected even of asexuals, the asexual community becomes no longer safe for us. I don't know if I'm asexual. I'm definitely very strongly sex-averse and therefore "effectively asexual" seems a good enough description. But I use it to point out exactly this: that I don't want to have sex with anyone, under any circumstances. I just want my choice to never try "curing" my sex aversion, my preference to remain effectively asexual and not care about the supposed wonders of sex which I just don't desire anyway, to be respected.

We’re quite obviously at opposite ends of the sex-aversion spectrum, but isn’t there room for both of our experiences within asexuality?

 

My personal opinion is that either definition is fine, as long as neither is used to invalidate anyone.

 

Genuine polite question: Sex-favourable asexuals sometimes feel we’re essentially being erased by certain interpretations of the “desire” definition. Do sex-averse/repulsed asexuals feel erased by the “attraction“ definition itself, or by it being strongly applied / narrowly interpreted (as you mention above)?

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@gray-a girl

Okay, we're going to try this again. Please actually listen to what I have to say this time. When you want to reply to something I said, quote the thing I said, so that you don't twist my words. Thank you.

 

I am not interested in telling you whether or not you are asexual. I do believe sex-favorable asexuality is a thing. I don't have a problem with people using the attraction based definition, as long as they don't think sexual attraction has to be a physical attraction. If that is what you want to talk about, yell at someone else.

What I am interested in, is discussing why saying that sex-repulsed asexuals have a problem they need to fix is wrong and incredibly harmful.

 

In this post I am making myself vulnerable. I am opening myself up, so that you understand where I am coming from. It is an invitation for you to try and put yourself in my shoes, and to understand. It is not an invitation for criticism. If you at any point start using what I wrote in between the two ❤️ emoji lines to tell me what I am and what I am not, whether or not I have a mental disorder, what my level of confidence is, or what I should do with my life, as you have done to others in this thread, consider yourself blocked and ignored. That isn't a measure I've ever had to take on AVEN before, so feel special.

 

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

 

I am one of the people who is extremely sex-repulsed, and yes, I am terrified. In certain cases, yes, there is shortness of breath, heart palpitations, feeling like I'm going to vomit, getting lightheaded, in short: panic. However, it is not sex itself that I am so afraid of. This article by the author of 'the invisible orientation' is what helped me realize that, please read it:

Spoiler

https://swankivy.tumblr.com/post/137517271475/fear-of-sex

 

Fear of Sex

As an asexual person who does not desire sex and actively does not want to have sex, and plans to never have sex, I am of course frequently asked The Question:

 

“Well are you AFRAID of sex?”

 

It’s kind of a good question, I guess, but at the same time, the following is generally expressed or implied:

 

“… Because if you’re AFRAID of sex, that means you have a PROBLEM.”

 

And that’s where I disagree.

 

Here’s the thing. I think I’d be pretty neutral about sex if the world wasn’t the way it is. It probably would have been something I’d have been more curious about, more willing to try “openly,” less weirded out about, and just more generally indifferent to.

 

But the world IS the way it is.

 

I live in a world that dumps some crushing value judgments on me about whether, why, and with whom I have sex. About what it means if I do, and if I don’t. About what it says to others about myself, about what I clearly must feel toward someone else if I consent to it or withhold it, about what kind of person I must be depending on what sex I have or don’t have.

 

I live in a world that aggressively pushes its values about sex onto me, and sometimes those values are contradictory (e.g., I’m supposed to save it for the one I love if I’m a “good girl,” but being a “good girl” means I’m obsessed with purity and I need to get over myself, and also must be suffering and denying myself pleasure, etc.). As an able-bodied non-religious cis white woman in the West, I have a different set of expectations about sex than people of different genders, ability palettes, races, orientations, religious upbringings, and national origins, and no one at any intersection is free of expectations about how they should have sex. I know how mine have affected me. And I know that “fearing sex” isn’t just about fearing the sex act.

 

I am not attracted to anyone sexually. I actively do not want to do sex with any partners. And the fact that this upsets so many people as they insist I need to change myself to view sex as beautiful and necessary is incredibly disturbing. That attitude right there does a LOT to turn sex into a thing I might have otherwise been sorta “meh” about into a thing I think I would fear or hate. Because I am being told that my lack of attraction and desire is unacceptable, and that it is very very important that I either reject/silence myself to experience it or just endure it for other people’s sake and shut up about it. I will never know how I would look at sex if this world really did give me a “take it or leave it” choice about it. Not engaging is considered an act of aggression toward men who want me, or an act of self-hate and self-denial, or a political statement, or a sign of unthinkable selfishness. (You know, because one of my functions is SUPPOSED to be accommodating those who desire my body.)

 

I think I am afraid. Because there is no decoupling sex from what has always surrounded it for me. I do a pretty damn good job analyzing it and separating those things from my actual experience, and in those instances where I can focus on it, I just get “meh.” “Meh, no I would not want that person to lie on top of me and thrust. No I would not want to trust that person with my body in that situation. No I don’t want my clothes off around that person and I don’t want their hands on me. No I don’t want them in my bed. No I don’t want them to look at me like that. Meh, meh, meh.” It’s a shrug. A disinterest. A lack of attraction. A non-issue.

 

But there is no denying that all the baggage surrounding what I am EXPECTED to value about sex turns into a firestorm of hatred and harassment when I don’t, and I am expected to calmly accept that my fear of that package describes a personal failure of mine. If I’m afraid of the ugly picture people have painted of sex through their DEMAND that I enjoy it in a prescribed way on other people’s terms, then that’s ammunition to assign me a disorder that I should want to cure. Notice I said “ammunition.” Because they are wielding it like a weapon, this shriek of “YOU NEED ~HELP~”–not because they want me to be helped, but because they want me to accept that how I am is synonymous with being wounded.

 

You can’t stand there with the weapon, shooting me with it and then threatening me with it again, and then ask me to accept that I have a pathological fear of bullets caused by something internally wrong with me.

 

I’m afraid of the bullets. I’m afraid of the guns. I’m afraid of the people who scream while wielding them. And I don’t think I’m to blame for assuming, in this environment, that I would not like being shot.

 

If someone says they’re afraid of sex, it’s not your job to say they’re not really asexual and their fear is a signal of pathology that must be treated. I think it’s a pretty rational response to the way people treat disinterest (or, relatedly, feelings about “healthy” sex after the only contact they’ve had has been violent or unpleasant). If you push them and continue to build up this cloud of violence around the need to accept sex, you make it much worse than it ever could have been on its own. Someone who’s afraid of sex isn’t yours to mock and invalidate and boot from the club of sex-favorable and sex-indifferent asexual people. Being neutral toward or accepting toward sex are NOT the only acceptable ways for an asexual person to live an authentic life. I venture to say MOST people would have some gradation of fear toward having sex with those who aggressively desire them and toward whom they have no matching desire, but they get “excused” if there is a subset of the population they’ll consent to sex with. Those of us who feel that way toward all sex are so frequently put in a category of “broken” that we often start to believe it.

 

And that feeds into the fear too.

 

It’s not just an act. It’s not always done out of love. It’s not a neutral activity for everyone. It’s not isolated from all its social, interpersonal, and cultural baggage, ever. And if someone says they’re afraid of sex, it is not anyone’s job to shake them by the shoulders and demand to know why, or set about fixing this fear, or making them “admit” that this is evidence of dysfunction as a fully alive person. If they want to talk about it, or change it, or risk sex with someone despite their fear, that’s about THEM. It’s not for anyone to decide they should not have this fear or should not deal with this fear by avoiding the cause.

 

I’m a lot more afraid of the HATRED that rolls out of people when I say I don’t want sex than I ever was of having it.

 

When I think about having sex with a woman, the crushing panic doesn't set in. It's just a 'Meh, no thanks, can you stop that please?' and then, in my imagination, they stop, and we're all good. When I think about having sex with a man, I don't trust that they will stop and I panic. I can't push my brain in that direction for too long. It doesn't want to go there. It's too awful. (No I am not simply a lesbian, I have considered that, thank you for not assuming you know more about my life from reading a couple of posts than I do living it. Also, any sex that doesn't involve me doesn't give me any type of panic reaction, fyi.)

 

That difference is due to society being the way it is (people who insist that I will/must please a man someday, media that idealizes men who pursue women and don’t take no for an answer and idealizes women as sex objects, dudes who made rape jokes about me, dudes who grabbed my privates on the street, dudes whistling, staring, making sexual gestures at me, dudes who don't stop touching you when you tell them to, dudes who stop but just try the same thing again 5 minutes later, dudes who take an arm when you offer them a finger.)

So yeah, I think my repulsion towards sex may not be inborn. I think I would be able to get to the ‘meh, no thanks’ reaction with men as well if the world wasn’t the way it is. But it is.


I remember vividly I used to cry myself to sleep back when I was a little nine year old, because people told me I was pretty, and media has always been clear about what the role of a pretty woman was. I would have to sleep with a man when I grew up, and my opinion on the matter did not matter. I was so deeply convinced of that. And of course that was dumb kid logic, but still, it came from somewhere. It wasn’t only the media that convinced me of this, it was also the people (like my parents) who, when I told them that I didn’t want to ever have sex because ‘ew, gross’, told me that I’d change my mind, and when I said I wouldn’t, told me I was wrong. People still tell me I’ll change my mind. They tell me I will have sex with a man someday. And each time they do, it feels like they are taking away my right to choose. My no is continuously swept under the rug as if it had never been uttered. Other people are choosing for me. If nobody listens to me when I say no, is my yes still mine to give? Do I have a choice at all? Can I still consent? My ability to give my consent has been taken away from me so many times, that I cannot trust I will be listened to anymore. And so I cannot imagine myself consenting to having sex with a man. Asking me to imagine myself in a sexual situation with a man, is asking me to imagine my own rape. Of course that is a situation that will induce panic.

 

An extreme fear is a disorder when it is irrational. My fear in response to how I've been treated is completely rational to me. Think of a straight guy getting the same messages I've received about my body from the media, and the same treatment I've received from men. How would he fare when told that he just needed to get over his lifelong experience-induced fear of sex with men and just have sex with them already? He wouldn't want to force them into celibacy now would he? 

 

(Please don’t take this as me saying I was traumatized into being asexual. I may have been traumatized into being sex-repulsed, maybe, but if that hadn’t happened, I’d just be a sex-indifferent asexual.)

 

When you tell me that my sex-repulsion is curable, and that I should try to desensitize myself to it, because I should be having sex and enjoying it, you are doing that same thing to me. You are pushing me in the direction of panic again. 

And on top of that, when you say that the way to be a real asexual is to have sex and enjoy it, just without experiencing sexual attraction, you are taking away what I need most from the word asexuality; the ability to say "No, I never want to have sex, and you should take my word for it. It's not just 'not right now', it's not just 'not with this person', it's 'never,' period." Me claiming the term asexual is essentially me screaming that no matter what society says, I will not change my mind, and please please please please please finally take me seriously on that. Please stop trying to make me change my mind. 

 

I stopped replying on here for a couple of days because of this. I had trouble sleeping. When it comes from someone within the community, it hits harder than when it comes from some random ignorant person. AVEN is the last place where I should be defending my right not to have sex, and not to be considered mentally ill for that.

 

Please don't ever tell anyone that they need to cure their sex-repulsion again. You are contributing to their repulsion when you do that, because you are reinforcing the view that sexuality is mandatory and valuable to everyone. I would not be repulsed if people treated sex like a take it or leave it kind of thing.

 

If I was to desensitize myself, who would I be doing that for? It's not for me. I want no part in any of this. I would be going through a lot of pain just so that I could be considered normal in society's eyes, and to please potential partners, in other words: for other people. If any partner of mine wanted me to go through that for them, they would not have my best interests at heart.

 

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

On 10/14/2019 at 3:02 AM, gray-a girl said:

It's true that I don't have the problem of denying a sexual sex, because I don't want it. (And essentially forcing any sexual people I date into celibacy or to look for a third partner).

You say this as if denying a partner sex is some sort of crime, again, reinforcing that sex is mandatory. If a sexual person agrees to be the partner of an asexual  person, then that is a choice they make. The asexual partner isn't forcing anything on them. (and no, I don't plan on being a sexual person's partner anytime soon, so rest assured, I won't be committing that 'crime.')

 

Saying that you respect people's identities, that you are not invalidating any specific person but a whole group of them (so it doesn't count), that you only do it as some sort of revenge (so it doesn't count), and that it's people's own choice whether they deal with their 'mental disorder' (because if they want to keep being weaklings who are lying to themselves, that's their problem, I'm only going to be shouting my judgement of them over multiple threads on this forum, so I clearly don't care); those things are completely hollow when you look at the full context of the rest of your posts. Yes you have been invalidating people, yes you are hurting people, and no this is not what respect looks like.

 

Same goes for your surface level support of people with mental health issues. Of course people with mental health issues aren't lesser than neurotypical people, and nobody was saying that they were. But telling people 'You have a disorder' is not a kind or respectful thing to say to someone who says they don't, especially when you are wielding it as a weapon in order to dismiss the points they are making. Don't dictate people's experiences, especially since all you know about them is a couple of paragraphs they wrote on a forum. A psychologist with a license to diagnose people would never ever diagnose people they haven't met, or without asking people why they feel the way they feel, yet that is what you are doing. I've studied psychology quite a bit too, but I'd never claim I was able to diagnose a whole demographic of people with anxiety, because that is an absurd, realistically impossible and profoundly unethical thing to do, as anyone with such a license would know. 

 

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@Laurann - I wish I could give more than just a "like". This post deserves a hundred "likes".

Just for @gray-a girl's information, it is very similar to what I feel, with the exceptions that:

  • I am much more scared of sex than disgusted by sex, my nudity aversion is its defining aspect (which also makes the issue of "whether a partner would stop" less relevant - I feel that I couldn't conset to even try having sex because I couldn't get past the hurdle of undressing).
  • I never considered sex inevitable - I simply decided, already in my childhood, that this is not something I want to do when I grow up, so I won't. It felt simple - I had already decided (at the age of five, still not knowing how do people have sex) that I don't want to have children or to marry a man, so the decision to not have sex either felt like a logical extension.
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37 minutes ago, Iam9man said:

Genuine polite question: Sex-favourable asexuals sometimes feel we’re essentially being erased by certain interpretations of the “desire” definition. Do sex-averse/repulsed asexuals feel erased by the “attraction“ definition itself, or by it being strongly applied / narrowly interpreted (as you mention above)?

I personally could feel erased by the attraction-based definition because I consider myself to experience sexual attraction without desire. But I just accept that it's an untypical experience, different from what most asexuals experience, and probably just a result of the fact that I'm effectively, but not strictly asexual, and that I'm effectively asexual because I'm sex-averse, not the other way around. I also accept the fact that my own understanding of sexual attraction is different from that most commonly used here (according to my own definition, what I experience is sexual attraction, according to the most widespread view - it just isn't, because it doesn't lead to any desire for sexual contact). So I'm generally fine with that, I just continue reminding that these two definitions of asexuality are potentially conflicting.

However, I definitely feel erased, invalidated and even personally attacked by such a narrow interpretation which assumes that sex aversion is a pathological symptom and not "real asexuality". I just cannot accept invalidation of sex-averse people. This is my life. I accept my sex aversion, I don't want to "cure" it, I don't want to become a different person. I won't let anyone take my sex-unwillingess from me.

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