I think in certain cases it can be a choice, with erasure, let me explain. What do you guys think about this, and me being Ace no matter what it takes?

[A1d4n4Ev3r]

 

Okay, so, you know Pavlov's dogs? It's this classic behavioral emotional psychology experiment where they took a group of dogs and rang a bell every time meat was fed to them, the dogs salivated and then they were fed the meat, conditioning this stimulus and then response. Eventually, the dogs were conditioned to get an emotional response where every time a bell rang, meat or not, they would like salivate like crazy. They took another group of dogs, who haven't been conditioned this way with stimulus, and they did not drool AT ALL when the bell rang.

I also think of like transgender people who feel they are a different gender, deep down, and they spiritually physically emotionally behaviorally make it happen and become a reality.
 

So, I know for sure a lot of ace people say it's not a choice and they wish they didn't feel this way, like it's not celibacy, but I'm kind of the opposite... and hoping this still applies, let me explain.
 

I started off a very heterosexual male, I was very interested in women and tried to have a lot of sex, but, I would always be consumed with these intense negative feelings after the experience, resent my time energy and focus there, I just would feel super tense and bad and weird about it, I would get so tired and lethargic I would always feel like it was killing me and sapping my creativity and I had better stuff to do with my time, I think I strongly dislike sex, even during it feels like a chore sometimes or very stupid and I just want it to be over with and not do it so I can go do other better things with my life, gain back my time, that make me happier and more, more loving, whatever, etc. Then I began watching pornography. LIKE A LOT. Innocence lost. My awkward fumbling uncomfortable not-really-sure shy days of fumbling with a partner were gone. I was hit with extreme extreme behavioral conditioning with all these filthy imagery burned in my brain that deep down my soul rejected and I always hated. But I think the orgasm-dopamine release hooked me, like heroine. The physically pleasurable sensations of masturbation linked to watching this shit. I couldn't stop watching porn, even though I hated it. It physically felt good to me, even though I disliked it. When I was depressed or stressed or sad , I would like force rape myself to do it. Which made things even worse. IT became like this weird drug in my life, that I always hated. I was always emotionally and mentally detached from the experience, I did it to mask and numb the pain in my life. I never loved it. I imagine if you weren't a gay male, and you were put into an all male orgy and forced to orgasm and do all these things with them, in 5 years of doing that every other day, your physical body and brain would be responding gay and probably get excited around men or feel strange feelings, against your higher will. Like you would get all excited and aroused probably around men (because you were forced to orgasm so many times around them), even though you didn't want to, just like pavlovs dogs. A sexy man would walk by, and you might start to feel things in your body now, even though A) you don't want to, and B) you're not or weren't even gay, you were conditioned against our higher spirit, or higher self something. Have you guys seen a clockwork orange, this is a very graphic scene with rape and violence so viewer discretion is advised but there's a part they like force his eyes open for him to watch all these videos. That's how I felt for so many years. Literally. If my higher self had a choice it wouldn't be anywhere near that. This is the trauma of addiction to brain chemicals. Here is the scene starting at 1min:21s 

Spoiler

 

The sex trafficking evil industry is the same, they take these sweet shy innocent young girls and lock them in a room and force them to watch hours and hours and hours of pornography to condition them into doing all these disgusting dirty obscene acts for their paying clients, they turn transform them into whores, basically.

But this was never who I am. Who and how I truly wanted to be. I've always deep down identified as an Ace, or really wanted to be one. I hate how my body responds to the conditioning now. Like I sort of get excited or aroused, even though I'd rather not. I find these feelings lessen when I remove the stimulation for a long period of time. I respond and react much less if not at all to sexual cues and stuff. Which isn't always possible in addiction, because it forces you to go back and watch it do it drink it snort it smoke it fuck it inject it whatever.
Anyways, the bottom line is, I don't want to be like this. I think I was conditioned against my will. I've always 90% hated human sexuality, and felt extremely trapped and confined by it. I hate the way my body responds sometimes linking orgasm and stimulation, like imagine everytime a bell rang you would start drooling and you're pissed it's happening to you, because you never wanted to drool in the first place. But here's the thing, I have orgasmed probably every single day, minus a day or two of a break from doing this physiological act, and have immersed myself deeply deeply forcefully into pornography over the last 5-8 years from addiction or trying to medicate myself, never ever liking what I did after and wishing it never happened in the first place. I've hated 95% of these experiences, I found myself unable to stop doing them or something.

 

I realize (deep down what I really always truly wanted:) when I stop orgasming, I stop masturbating, and I stop staring at genetalia or graphic filthy eye brain burning porn scenes I can actually feel my brain heal and change in a different direction. I start to think about other new things and feel new things, more like my higher (or truly chosen) self, and behave diffently. Like, I no longer get hyper suspersensitively aroused near women (I originally identified as hetero male) it's like, I can actually feel calm, not get aroused, and carry on a loving awesome conversation with them, I feel so much more comfortable and like myself. When I start watching porn and/or masturbating again intensely, it all comes back: Like pavlovs dogs I begin to "drool" around women or sexual body parts, even though I'd rather not, kind of like a chaser effect after drinking, I feel like this wouldn't happen if I never took the drink in the first place, and what I truly wanted.

I really don't want to feel sexual attraction anymore. Like I imagine the guy who was conditioned to be gay would be super resentful if when men walked by he would feel tingles or something, I totally believe and have experienced these inappropriate sensations go away when you remove the stimulus for a very long healing and changing period of time and just don't go back to it. But this is a slow process and takes many many many years.  
 

I read this brain science thing about neuroplasticity that says the brain has these grooves like paths in a grassy road or field the most well worn taken paths are paved and the easiest to take, we default to, so if we try to take a new path, it's difficult in the beginning, but can eventually become the new emotional behavioral path groove, and the old one, now the less used one, will grow fresh grass over it and no longer be the easiest path to take. Like, so, I want to CHOOSE to become ace - for life. I've deep deep down always felt and loved it and felt that was truly me, who I am.

I've felt like sex was 95% rape my whole life. I've never ACTUALLY been raped, I just hate it, or really don't like experiencing it. I also don't like how abnormally I respond and react to body parts - men and women, (I'm not even gay!) but this happened to my brain from the forced conditioning of all that filthy shit linked with physically pleasurable masturbation, which I also didn't like and want to do, aka force raping myself.

So what do you guys think, if I follow my heart and stop masturbating, forcing myself to watch porn and engage in any sex, stare at genitals for super prolonged periods of time while experiencing pleasure and / or orgasm, I imagine if I go like 5-10 years without sex or orgasm I will be an entirely different person, my brain will change, responding to arousal cues much much much much much differently, more Ace-like. So, have my hetero experiments failed? Can I totally be accepted as one of you guys in your community? I've always deep down wanted to do this.
 

I feel like as an example a transgender person or something who was like forcing himself to date women his whole life because everyone would think he was weird if he wasn't (this was huge for me - social acceptance from many men means going out and trying to sleep with chicks like the rest of them), but really deep down knowing he was a woman and wanted to truly date a man and be who they really are, but still is feeling these lasting risidual effects from the previous experiences dating the women that he doesn't like. It's like someone forced you at gun point to go to the gym for 5 years and your body responded and adapted and now you're super muscular and buff, but deep deep deep deep deep down you've always wanted to be skinny, even though your physical body responded differently to the conditioning. But the entire time, every rep, every workout, you just dreamed about being skinny, and didn't like very much what you were doing. I'm sure if you stopped going to the gym, you could achieve your dream and get super skinny again. Then be happy. Sync up with your Higher Self. Neuroplasticity. Adaptation. Brain rewiring. Whatever you want to call it.
 

This is me.
 

What do you guys think?
 

❤️

[LeChat]

Well, if you feel your sexuality/sexual urges, behaviors, etc. are bothering you, a "sex addiction," there is therapy for it/medication for it that could help.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/addiction/sex#get-help

 

Just to let you know, since you're new, several members have been sexually assaulted, so, you're correct: it isn't correct to call this as a sort of "rape," and members, normally, don't put up links to rape/graphic scenes from movies on this forum (plus, there are members as young as 13).

 

In the Terms of Service, Admods request that users who want to discuss topics like rape or up links to sexually explicit material put a warning in their thread's title, as an advanced head's up for members, usually something like "TW" (an abbreviation of "Trigger Warning").

 

Quote

d. Sexually explicit material
Because many users find sexually explicit material offensive we request that posts which contain sexually explicit material contain a warning in the subject line. Please refrain from using sexually explicit subject lines. 

 

[Rynn]

What you describe does sound like addiction, and I would like you to know that there is no shame in getting help for that. It doesn't mean you are weak. Everyone needs help sometimes. I do think you will be able to reduce arousal responses and feel healthier this way, but (correct me if I'm wrong) you do seem to indicate that you have experienced desire for partnered sex/ sexual attraction since your teenage years, and I do not think that is something you can change. That would amount to conversion therapy. Which is bad. 

 

Asexual - does not experience an innate desire for partnered sex/ does not experience sexual attraction to anyone.

 

Arousal can be an indication of sexual attraction, but doesn't have to be, as asexuals can be aroused too. For example, there are autochorissexuals, who can be aroused by third person sexual fantasies that do not include themselves, because they do not want to be in any sexual situations themselves. And sometimes it's just libido acting up and being weird.

 

Your experience sounds like sex-repulsion. Both asexuals and sexuals can be sex-repulsed. It is an involuntary response, not a choice, not an opinion. If you are sex-repulsed it doesn't necessarily mean you are asexual, though there is a high correlation between asexuality and sex-repulsion.

 

sex-repulsed -> sex-averse -> sex-indifferent -> sex-favorable  are the involuntary attitudes people can have towards sex, independently of whether they are sexual or asexual.

sex-positive (opposite: sex-negative) = the opinion that sex is good and healthy as long as it is safe and consensual, and people should not be shamed for the types of sex they are having.

 

That said, you are welcome to stay, of course! Questioning yourself is good, and I hope you learn a lot of things here. Even if it turns out you are not asexual, you can still hang around this place  

[Homer]

Welcome to AVEN  

 

Wow, that's a lot to go through. I hope that writing it all down helps to get it out of your system  

 

Sexual orientation isn't a choice. You might end up struggling with yours, might not like the hassle it comes with, might not like how difficult it is to find a suitable partner. Many asexuals will actually be able to relate to that last point. However if someone is "merely" repressing their feelings that's just that. That's more in the ballpark of celibacy rather than asexuality.

[NickyTannock]

I've moved this thread from "Questions about Asexuality" to "Asexual Musings and Rantings".
 
Michael Tannock,
Open Mic moderator and Questions about Asexuality Co-moderator.

[Philip027]

Whatever you're thinking is a "choice" is not what you think asexuality is.  Also, you should probably seek a sex therapist, because boy it looks like you have some unpacking to do.

[Guest]

Trying to condition someone to have an orientation is very dangerous. This is what conversation therapy is. They never changed anyone, only traumatized and tortured them. If you are hetero, this is never going to change unless you bash your head in ( d o n 't, brain trauma is not an option). However, seeking therapy for your addiction can change. Celibacy is also an option for you too. 

[GlamRocker]

I think you should DEFINITELY stop watching porn.

 

You can't make yourself ace, aces can't make themselves sexuals, either. If you COULD, boy would the world be a different place! Doesn't mean you can't work out what's going on with you to a more healthy place, though. And if linking up with ace culture helps, by ALL MEANS!

 

It's weird, I just commented on another thread about porn addiction, and then read this one, not knowing at all that this was also about porn addiction!

[NickyTannock]

@A1d4n4Ev3r Welcome to AVEN!

 

I think you're confusing behaviour with attraction, the former being susceptible to conditioning, the latter being innate.

 

In any case, I think that's a distraction, and I'm wondering if when you say that you were interested in women and persued sexual acts, whether you desired the sex or were experiencing arousal with a different type of attraction?

There are many types of attraction, and perhaps a breakdown will be helpful for you.

There's Sexual Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have sex with someone (This is different from arousal, which doesn't always lead to desiring sex).

There's Romantic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have a romantic relationship (I still don't know what that is, I'm Aromantic).

There's Sensual Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have intimate non-sexual physical contact with someone, like cuddling.

There's Aesthetic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to appreciate someone's aesthetic beauty (you can't take your eyes off them).

There's Platonic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have a close friendship with someone.

And more.

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake, and here's a "Love....." cake (all edible),

http://cakesdecor.com/cakes/330305-love

[Marlow1]

@A1d4n4Ev3r 

 

Disclaimer: I am not a Doctor, nor a Therapist, so if you are interested in anything I say here please seek appropriate medical and/or self help support

 

Abstinence when chosen is called celibacy 0not Asexual but it is a very valid state to choose, and many many people that have been through the kind of things that you are describing do choose celibacy 

 

Some are celibate for a while but then return to the lifestyle. I know how crazy this sounds but without support folk in this situation that you are describing can start feeling lonely, and very depressed, their minds can obsess about the past and so on. Over time this can lead to them going back 😱

 

But there is also good news. An enormous amount of people that have suffered in a similar way to this that you are describing, do recover, fully!!! Seriously, they do, and they never get drawn back into those kinds of situations. Some remain celibate, but through for the rest of their lives, several. Of my best friends have chosen life long celibacy and they are the most happiest and at peace people that I know. Some simply have platonic friendships, others romantic relationships without sex and so on. However, once fully recovered many folk recovering from all this go on to have loving intimate sexual relationships, I have several friends that have chosen this after years of celibacy, and so really anything can happen, it is mainly getting well from the addiction and trauma that is the most important thing 🤔

 

Folk at these two support groups will be able to help you 🤝

 

https://www.covenanteyes.com/

 

And

 

https://fightthenewdrug.org/

 

Like I have already said I am no expert regarding any of this and I really do think you should seek out professional help and community support from people that share your experience. Please do spend some time sieving through the links above, there really is an enormous amount of support out there for people like yourself

 

 

 

[Charna]

I'd suggest seeking professional help, because what you describe sounds like some sort of behavioral compulsion(s) related to pornography and intimacy.

Asexuality is a sexual orientation, not a cure or something you can "train" yourself to be.

[LeChat]

2 hours ago, Marlow1 said:

...(Trigger Warning!!!) Also, you mentioned being raped. Some folk that have been raped say the rape itself led to sexual compulsions for them, this is something else you might want to look into...

(TW)

Spoiler

 

Just to clarify, OP said they've never been raped.

5 hours ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

I've felt like sex was 95% rape my whole life. I've never ACTUALLY been raped, I just hate it, or really don't like experiencing it...

There's a big difference between someone who's been raped by someone else against their will or who was forced to watch pornography by someone versus someone who has self-hatred for their sexual attraction/desires and who decided to watch pornography/masturbate/have sex, etc., themselves.

 

It's not the same thing: the former situation is rape; the latter is just self-hatred/feeling guilty/uncomfortable, etc. with their body's sexual attraction/desires and watching porn, masturbating, etc.

 

The difference is, the latter wasn't forced by anyone to do those things. There's a reason why health professionals don't refer to the latter as rape: because it's not.

 

[A1d4n4Ev3r]

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry about the not tagging the post as TW. Won't happen again. Yes I'm totally new. 

THANKS FOR THE CAKE! I love you all, hahaha. 

Okay, 

Okay, wow, thanks all so much for helping clarify what I'm going through.

 

Sorry for the rape statement, I was throwing words around too carelessly.

 

Quote

 

It's not the same thing: the former situation is rape; the latter is just self-hatred/feeling guilty/uncomfortable, etc. with their body's sexual attraction/desires and watching porn, masturbating, etc.

 

Does that still mean it's possible I am a 100% valid asexual? 

 

Quote

Asexual - does not experience an innate desire for partnered sex/ does not experience sexual attraction to anyone.

 

Arousal can be an indication of sexual attraction, but doesn't have to be, as asexuals can be aroused too. For example, there are autochorissexuals, who can be aroused by third person sexual fantasies that do not include themselves, because they do not want to be in any sexual situations themselves. And sometimes it's just libido acting up and being weird.

 

This sounds like me and where I am confused, what is the difference between sexual attraction and sexual arousal to an asexual person? Because this sounds like me my whole life. So a pure asexual person can feel aroused and get aroused, it just means they don't ever feel like following through and escalating with the person - that is sexual attraction? 

 

Okay, typical scenario...

 

****TW****

I'm standing in line, it's a hot summer day, woman in front of me is in a skirt, she seems kind of not my type and actually I wouldn't connect with her aside from an acquantance at best, she bends over, I see up her skirt, white panties and a cute butt, I start to feel a rush of adrenaline, my heart speeds up a bit, I think a bit of blood is flowing to my penis, but again I don't want to experience or feel this - this is arousal, correct?
 

********

 

So then, what is that? Then I go home, I'm thinking about I want to date someone completely else I've been talking to is a friend of a friend, make it special and be heterromantic with her, but not really truly want to have sex with her at all like ever unless she wants me to for her own needs and I want to keep her happy, I would just really like to get to know them, cuddle with them and stuff and really get to know them on a deep intimate level. I have all these romantic fantasies. Not a single erection the entire time. It's like all love. 

I don't really want to care much for sex anymore, I just want to get on with my life, do other things. But I still get triggered and feel arousal. So am I not Ace then? Or am I? It sounds to me like celibate people are repressing their sexual attraction, AND desires? But an asexual person doesn't have any so there's nothing to repress? Like they're not sitting home on Friday night going "Man, I could hook up with that girl from work who is texting me this sexy stuff, but, I can't because religious reasons or otherwise the decision I made." An Asexual person would be like "Wow, I felt really aroused by that girl at work accidentally but I have no interest in sexually pursuing her, I'd rather be her friend and play some video games tonight and maybe head to barnes & noble or something."  If the latter is my case, does that mean I'm 100% Asexual and valid here? Vs being like "Man, I really want to go hook up with her!" 
 

Quote

I think you're confusing behaviour with attraction, the former being susceptible to conditioning, the latter being innate.

Same question.... is attraction the same or not the same as arousal in your community and clear definition of asexuality? Do many asexual people feel a lot of arousal, or can, they just don't have sexual attraction, which is different, which would then describe me as truly asexual if I feel this way too? 

My head is spinning.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the support you all amazing souls. 

 

[Marlow1]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:17 PM, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

(TW)

  Hide contents

 

Just to clarify, OP said they've never been raped.

There's a big difference between someone who's been raped by someone else against their will or who was forced to watch pornography by someone versus someone who has self-hatred for their sexual attraction/desires and who decided to watch pornography/masturbate/have sex, etc., themselves.

 

It's not the same thing: the former situation is rape; the latter is just self-hatred/feeling guilty/uncomfortable, etc. with their body's sexual attraction/desires and watching porn, masturbating, etc.

 

The difference is, the latter wasn't forced by anyone to do those things. There's a reason why health professionals don't refer to the latter as rape: because it's not.

 

Quote

TRIGGER WARNING:::: Oh dear, I am so sorry about this, it could be my brain hemorrhage I get things wrong like this often. I do apologies if I have upset anybody it really was not intentional. I will change my post so that it does not include this statement. I had read the information in the context of the OP saying he had been raped and was concerned about that. I now see I definitely did read that wrong!!! 

 

[Rynn]

54 minutes ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

My head is spinning.

I'm so sorry, I'm about to make this way more complicated. I'm not sure how to interpret your situation, so I'm just going to throw out and define a bunch of words that may be useful to you, so you have more tools to figure yourself out.

 

54 minutes ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

I don't really want to care much for sex anymore, I just want to get on with my life, do other things. But I still get triggered and feel arousal. So am I not Ace then? Or am I? IT sounds to me like celibate people are repressing their sexual attraction, AND desires? 

Okay so I really hope this won't derail the thread into a definition debate (this is a very contentious issue on AVEN), but there are two main definitions people use for asexuality. The first is 'no sexual attraction to anyone' and the second is 'no innate desire for partnered sex.' I am trying not to pick a side in this post.

 

The AVEN FAQ defines sexual attraction as a feeling that leads you to desire sex with another person. A lot of people on here say sexual attraction and desire are effectively synonyms. Other people don't agree and say they feel one of these things but not the other.

People who say they feel the desire for partnered sex, but never feel sexually attracted to anyone use the label cupiosexual. 

I don't often come across people who say they feel sexual attraction but not a desire for sex, but for them there is also the label akoisexual, which is sometimes described as experiencing sexual attraction that fizzles as soon as it is reciprocated.

 

Some people are of the opinion that in order to be considered asexual, you should meet both definitions (because as I said, people think they are effectively the same thing), and if you don't, you are sexual.

Some people will put the people who meet only one definition in the grey area.

Some people consider asexuality to be a spectrum, and so people who meet only one definition or are close to meeting one definition can still be considered asexual in the broader sense of the word.

(Again I'm not taking sides here, just laying out the opinions that are out there in broad strokes.)

 

54 minutes ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

An Asexual person would be like "Wow, I felt really aroused by that girl at work but I have no interest in sexually pursuing her, I'd rather be her friend and play some video games tonight and maybe head to barnes & noble or something."

I mean, that's very far from what I'd experience. The "Wow, I felt really aroused by that girl" part just never happens. 

 

54 minutes ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

what is the difference between sexual attraction and sexual arousal to an asexual person?

Again, sexual attraction is most often defined as a feeling that leads you to desire sex with another person. Arousal is just the physical state of being aroused. I was talking about asexuals being aroused by things other than people and their body parts, such as autochorissexuals being aroused by sexually charged fantasies about characters that aren't them, or people being aroused out of nowhere just because their body is being weird, or aces with other fetishes getting aroused by their fetish.

Being aroused by a person doesn't sound very ace to me, but is it possible to be aroused by a person or their body parts, without actually being sexually attracted to that person? I don't know and I hope someone else (maybe someone who actually knows what sexual attraction feels like) will chip in with that information. 

 

As for the second definition, the desire one, if someone told you that you will never again have sex with another human being, how would that make you feel? Horrified? Relieved? Indifferent? If you chose 'relieved' or 'indifferent' then that sounds ace to me, at least if you're going with only the second definition.

 

@Marlow1 You can ask a mod to hide entire posts so they're invisible. Or you can edit the content away and replace it with a smiley face or something  .

[Marlow1]

1 hour ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry about the not tagging the post as TW. Won't happen again. Yes I'm totally new. 

THANKS FOR THE CAKE! I love you all, hahaha. 

Okay, 

Okay, wow, thanks all so much for helping clarify what I'm going through.

 

Sorry for the rape statement, I was throwing words around too carelessly.

 

Does that still mean it's possible I am a 100% valid asexual? 

 

 

This sounds like me and where I am confused, what is the difference between sexual attraction and sexual arousal to an asexual person? Because this sounds like me my whole life. So a pure asexual person can feel aroused and get aroused, it just means they don't ever feel like following through and escalating with the person - that is sexual attraction? 

 

Okay, typical scenario...

 

****TW****

I'm standing in line, it's a hot summer day, woman in front of me is in a skirt, she seems kind of not my type and actually I wouldn't connect with her aside from an acquantance at best, she bends over, I see up her skirt, white panties and a cute butt, I start to feel a rush of adrenaline, my heart speeds up a bit, I think a bit of blood is flowing to my penis, but again I don't want to experience or feel this - this is arousal, correct?
 

********

 

So then, what is that? Then I go home, I'm thinking about I want to date someone completely else I've been talking to is a friend of a friend, make it special and be heterromantic with her, but not really truly want to have sex with her at all like ever unless she wants me to for her own needs and I want to keep her happy, I would just really like to get to know them, cuddle with them and stuff and really get to know them on a deep intimate level. I have all these romantic fantasies. Not a single erection the entire time. It's like all love. 

I don't really want to care much for sex anymore, I just want to get on with my life, do other things. But I still get triggered and feel arousal. So am I not Ace then? Or am I? It sounds to me like celibate people are repressing their sexual attraction, AND desires? But an asexual person doesn't have any so there's nothing to repress? Like they're not sitting home on Friday night going "Man, I could hook up with that girl from work who is texting me this sexy stuff, but, I can't because religious reasons or otherwise the decision I made." An Asexual person would be like "Wow, I felt really aroused by that girl at work accidentally but I have no interest in sexually pursuing her, I'd rather be her friend and play some video games tonight and maybe head to barnes & noble or something."  If the latter is my case, does that mean I'm 100% Asexual and valid here? Vs being like "Man, I really want to go hook up with her!" 
 

Same question.... is attraction the same or not the same as arousal in your community and clear definition of asexuality? Do many asexual people feel a lot of arousal, or can, they just don't have sexual attraction, which is different, which would then describe me as truly asexual if I feel this way too? 

My head is spinning.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the support you all amazing souls. 

 

@A1d4n4Ev3r There are lots and lots of folk at AVEN that are not Asexual, whether you are or not you are still welcome here. Nobody here is going to be able to tell you if you are Asexual or not, this is something you will need to work out for yourself. 

 

Because your sexual history is so painful it is difficult to say whether or not your lack of interest in perusing sex is your natural state or if it is being induced by your anguish. If I was you I would stay here and read the posts, you may begin to identify with some of the folk here and that will probably help you work out if you are Asexual or not. If you are experiencing attraction occasionally you might fit under the Grey Umberella. This is where I sit. I seriously cannot get attracted to a person unless I have known they for an incredibly long time, the circumstances through this time have to be pretty perfect and the person that I am eventually attracted has to be a certain way romantically, intellectually, fun and stuff. And I have to have a very strong emotional bond. In fact I am 64 years old and I have only ever been attracted to one person so under the Grey Umberella I identify as Demisexual

 

When I read your post it sounds very much like you may have been traumatised by your experience. I was not emotionally traumatised but I had a brain hemorrhage and this lead to me loosing my attraction. My wife and I are in Therapy and this has helped us both no end. I really do hope that you can find a Therapist like we have that will give you the support you need

 

In regards to the term celibacy, no not all folk that are celibate are religious, nor are they repressing their urges. Some are Allosexual and some are Asexual etc, the thing with celibacy is that it is a choice. You asked if Asexuality is a choice, Asexuality is never a choice, it is a person's orientation, but if a person chooses not to have sex at all, because they Re choosing this is celibacy. I hope this is helpful

[Marlow1]

10 minutes ago, Laurann said:

 

@Marlow1 You can ask a mod to hide entire posts so they're invisible. Or you can edit the content away and replace it with a smiley face or something  .

Thank you for helping me out regarding this. @Laurann I have deleted the part on the first post that was misleading and now on the second post put the wording inside quotes, which I think hides it, is this correct??? 

[A1d4n4Ev3r]

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but is it possible to be aroused by a person or their body parts, without actually being sexually attracted to that person? I don't know and I hope someone else (maybe someone who actually knows what sexual attraction feels like) will chip in with that information. 

 

 

 

I think to simplify, a more potent definition seems to be "I feel intense sexual feelings for women, unconsciously and get triggered very easily" this doesn't sound ace to me, more like a heterosexual who wants to wish away his true orientation? I mean isn't asexuality probably like they are not feeling intense attraction and feelings towards any sexual stuff of any sex? I seem to be straight and heterosexual, but wish I wasn't? Like I want to condition myself not to be, but that may or may not even be possible I am thinking. =/ All my life I've been aroused by women, to be simple about all this, that must mean I am probably not asexual? 

 

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As for the second definition, the desire one, if someone told you that you will never again have sex with another human being, how would that make you feel? Horrified? Relieved? Indifferent? If you chose 'relieved' or 'indifferent' then that sounds ace to me, at least if you're going with only the second definition.

RELIEVED. SO RELIEVED. Oh my God. SO HAPPY. I cannot even tell you, I am like the happiest guy on Earth. I have been confined and being killed by my sexuality for years, I lack the ability to say no because I get these intense overwhelming emotions to do sexual things when I get triggered (Again, this doesn't sound like asexuality, like I used the example at the store, to put it bluntly and simply women very effectively easily turn me on, I just wish they didn't, so this doesn't probably mean I am an asexual, or can it still? Probably not?) 

 

Holy crap. Realization. 

 

I don't think I am maybe asexual, I think I am sexual hetero heteroromantic, BUT I desire like abstinence FOREVER or celibacy, I just don't literally want to feel or have sex from all the bullshit in my past from it, it took so much from me, so that's a valid thing, right? Like many priests do that right? They fully get their orientation is to sexual expression with females (example being straight, hetero) but they choose a lifetime of not engaging in it? That's not asexuality then, that's probably what I am going to end up doing?

I'm very blurry and confused right now but I think the majority of evidence is pointing me towards because I get strong feelings of sexual desire around females, even though I wish I didn't. I'm trying to, like, not... based on past conditioning. Does this intuitively sound correct to you? Maybe a more proud label I can wear on my chest is like Celibate or Abstinent lol. 

Thanks so much for helping clarify everything guys, I watched the documentaries, you all seem like amazing souls. 

 

[Rynn]

 

7 hours ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

I lack the ability to say no because I get these intense overwhelming emotions to do sexual things when I get triggered (Again, this doesn't sound like asexuality, like I used the example at the store, to put it bluntly and simply women very effectively easily turn me on, I just wish they didn't, so this doesn't probably mean I am an asexual, or can it still? Probably not?) 

It does sound like you do feel innate sexual desire and sexual attraction, but just wish you didn't, because you have grown to have very negative associations with sex. Most sex therapists would probably try to help you get past these negative associations, but if you don't want to have sex, then that's valid. I still think a sex therapist could maybe help you get red of the addiction (because as you say, right now you feel powerless against your desires), to help you control and reduce your sexual impulses. I hope you can find one who is willing to take you seriously when you tell them you want to stay celibate. It might take a couple of tries.

 

7 hours ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

I don't think I am maybe asexual, I think I am sexual hetero heteroromantic, BUT I desire like abstinence FOREVER or celibacy, I just don't literally want to feel or have sex from all the bullshit in my past from it, it took so much from me, so that's a valid thing, right? Like many priests do that right? They fully get their orientation is to sexual expression with females (example being straight, hetero) but they choose a lifetime of not engaging in it? That's not asexuality then, that's probably what I am going to end up doing?

Yeah, I think you are probably right. You don't sound asexual, but you don't need to be asexual to practice abstinence/celibacy. You don't have to have sex if you don't want to, regardless of your orientation. And you don't have to be religious or conservative to be celibate. Any reason to say no to sex is good enough. That's the good thing about consent. Whether you have sex is entirely up to you.

 

I do hope your negative associations with sex don't reflect poorly on people around you who do still choose to have sex. I hope you can see that there is nothing morally wrong or repulsive or whoreish about that?

15 hours ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

The sex trafficking evil industry is the same, they take these sweet shy innocent young girls and lock them in a room and force them to watch hours and hours and hours of pornography to condition them into doing all these disgusting dirty obscene acts for their paying clients, they turn transform them into whores, basically.

While I agree that sex trafficking is evil, sex itself is not. This kind of language, the kind that indicates disdain or disgust for people who do engage in sexual acts, is frowned upon on AVEN. Asexual elitism; thinking that asexuals are better, purer or have more emotional depth, is not allowed on here, and for good reason: it is bullshit.

Personally I will never have or truly understand the drive to have sex, and I am very sex-repulsed, but I have still learned to be sex-positive, as in, I see consensual sex as something that can be healthy and loving and that shouldn't be seen as shameful or wrong. Real sex isn't like pornography (so I've heard, I don't actually know shit about either the real thing or porn). I just hope pornography hasn't turned you into a misanthrope or misogynist, really.

Have you looked into the sex positive movement? I think it could maybe help you get rid of some of the negative associations with sex. Which doesn't mean you have to start having it, it just means maybe you'll learn to respect people who choose to have it more. You being so desperate to publicly distance yourself from sex does worry me a little, that's why.

 

[Charna]

10 hours ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

I think to simplify, a more potent definition seems to be "I feel intense sexual feelings for women, unconsciously and get triggered very easily" this doesn't sound ace to me, more like a heterosexual who wants to wish away his true orientation? I mean isn't asexuality probably like they are not feeling intense attraction and feelings towards any sexual stuff of any sex? I seem to be straight and heterosexual, but wish I wasn't? Like I want to condition myself not to be, but that may or may not even be possible I am thinking. =/ All my life I've been aroused by women, to be simple about all this, that must mean I am probably not asexual?

 

Thing is, you don't have to find a label for yourself now. It is alright to call yourself "questioning" or simply say "I don't know" in regards to one's sexual orientation or gender. Of course in real life for safety reasons it is not possible for everyone who is not 100% straight and cis to come out and say so, and I don't advocate this. But at least on these forums you will find safe space to do so.

 

The reason I'm writing it, is because to me this insistance on calling yourself a heterosexual male seems... forced, in lack of a better word. In your initital post you wrote several analogies relating to sex with men, but always in a negative light. So let me ask this: do you believe homosexual sex is somehow wrong? What about nonbinary genders?

[A1d4n4Ev3r]

1 hour ago, Charna said:

Thing is, you don't have to find a label for yourself now. It is alright to call yourself "questioning" or simply say "I don't know" in regards to one's sexual orientation or gender. Of course in real life for safety reasons it is not possible for everyone who is not 100% straight and cis to come out and say so, and I don't advocate this. But at least on these forums you will find safe space to do so.

 

The reason I'm writing it, is because to me this insistance on calling yourself a heterosexual male seems... forced, in lack of a better word. In your initital post you wrote several analogies relating to sex with men, but always in a negative light. So let me ask this: do you believe homosexual sex is somehow wrong? What about nonbinary genders?

No, just different. I just don't want it. It's not me, who I am, what I want to do or would choose. 

[A1d4n4Ev3r]

3 hours ago, Laurann said:

Have you looked into the sex positive movement? I think it could maybe help you get rid of some of the negative associations with sex. Which doesn't mean you have to start having it, it just means maybe you'll learn to respect people who choose to have it more. You being so desperate to publicly distance yourself from sex does worry me a little, that's why.

Thx. Yeah, well, I just got SOOOOOO damaged from compulsive (forced via addiction) sexual behavior, I also feel super jealous in relationships and vuulnerable to being cheated on, so I honestly just want to experience love only and chuck sex in the garbage, I find having massive control over my sexuality is a huge benefit to myself and my relationships. So I deeply want to be ace. 

[Rynn]

1 hour ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

Thx. Yeah, well, I just got SOOOOOO damaged from compulsive (forced via addiction) sexual behavior, I also feel super jealous in relationships and vuulnerable to being cheated on, so I honestly just want to experience love only and chuck sex in the garbage, I find having massive control over my sexuality is a huge benefit to myself and my relationships. So I deeply want to be ace. 

Yeah I got that, and that damage isn't going to go away if you just chuck sex to the side. It's still in your brain, and you'll still need to deal with that. Which is why I suggested therapy and the sex positive movement as possible sources of healing. I meant to say that you can be sex-positive and still not do any sex yourself. I'm not trying to get you to have sex again, if that's what you're thinking. I completely support your decision to be celibate. I'm just not sure being celibate will be A, easy for you to do without professional help and B, enough to heal all the damage.

 

What you've described in your first post still sounds like addiction to me, and the thing with addictions is that you can't always control whether you give in to them. What happens when you have a fallback, and you do give in? Will you have another identity crisis, and again apply all of those incredibly negative associations you have with sex to yourself? Wouldn't it be better if you wouldn't feel as bad about yourself if you do have sex? In order to feel better about that, you'd need to diminish the negative associations you have, hence sex-positive movement. That's all I was trying to say.

 

And you can still be cheated on if you aren't having sex. Romantic relationships are still complicated and vulnerable without the sex. Aces can still cheat on other aces by falling in love with another. There are assholes in every demographic. Even if you just had friendships, you'd still have to deal with the fear of being abandoned for significant others (aromantic people know all about that). 

You can't turn yourself ace, and even if you could, not having sex isn't a cure-all. I do think it can help you though, but it'll take some work on yourself. And working on yourself is never easy.

[Marlow1]

4 hours ago, Laurann said:

Yeah I got that, and that damage isn't going to go away if you just chuck sex to the side. It's still in your brain, and you'll still need to deal with that. Which is why I suggested therapy and the sex positive movements as possible sources of healing. I meant to say that you can be sex-positive and still not do any sex yourself. I'm not trying to get you to have sex again, if that's what you're thinking. I completely support your decision to be celibate. I'm just not sure being celibate will be A, easy for you to do without professional help and B, enough to heal all the damage.

 

What you've described in your first post still sounds like addiction to me, and the thing with addictions is that you can't always control whether you give in to them. What happens when you have a fallback, and you do give in? Will you have another identity crisis, and again apply all of those incredibly negative associations you have with sex to yourself? Wouldn't it be better if you wouldn't feel as bad about yourself if you do have sex? In order to feel better about that, you'd need to diminish the negative associations you have, hence sex-positive movement. That's all I was trying to say.

 

And you can still be cheated on if you aren't having sex. Romantic relationships are still complicated and vulnerable without the sex. Aces can still cheat on other aces by falling in love with another. There are assholes in every demographic. Even if you just had friendships, you'd still have to deal with the fear of being abandoned for significant others (aromantic people know all about that). 

You can't turn yourself ace, and even if you could, not having sex isn't a cure-all. I do think it can help you though, but it'll take some work on yourself. And working on yourself is never easy.

Laurann you are absolutely correct with all that you are saying here. When I met my wife she had been through a terrible ordeal with one of her exes. Things were so bad for her that she definitely never wanted to have sex ever again, and this certainty is they key reason why she wanted to be with me in the early days, she wanted a partner that did not want sex either

 

The years have gone by and we have had our ups and downs but in the final analysis it is clear that she is Allosexual whereas for me my sexuality is clearly Demisexual

 

Both of us desire a relationship where we are both monogamous, and where the love between us is based on intimacy, friendship, romance, fun etc, but I remain  a Demisexual and my wife remains an Allosexual. Neither of us ever want to hurt each other in any way and because of the difficulties we have both been through we are both in Therapy together. But for very different reasons

 

My wife's struggles are emotional. She, easily becomes attracted but experiences great guilt if her mind starts to fantasize about the folk she is attracted to. She is able to control it in the sense that she will not go ahead and have sex with another person but still the anxiety that she gets from all this is debilitating. She can also become very jealous if she thinks I could become attracted to somebody or if she suspects somebody is attracted to me. These, and many other factors, are the issues my wife is working on in Therapy. She tells me that many of her emotional issues, even all these years later are related to her past sexual experiences before she met me. My wife also spends a lot of time learning about my conditions and what it is like to experience only limited attraction, which is what I experience and is the opposite of her experience

 

Me, I never ever get attracted to anybody else, not before I met my wife and not whilst I have been with her. This is due to my Aphantasia and me being Demisexual. Most of my work in recovery centres around me wanting to remain attracted to my wife and so the emphasis is on devising ways for me to remember my relationship with my wife, journalling, talking about the good times with other folk, planning dates with my wife etc. Basically building concepts in my mind so that I will remain attracted to my wife and experience sexual desire for her. Also, working out interesting stuff I can do to express my romantic feelings towards my wife, improving my libido etc. I spend time here at AVEN sharing with and learning from other folk that fall under the Greysexual Umberella. I never become obsessed about sex, nor my feelings etc, and I very rarely become jealous. My work in Therapy centres around these things I have just mentioned, and also trying to understand what it is like for my wife to be having all these feelings and then having to fight them. When this does not happen to a person like myself it is difficult to get my head around 

[Charna]

2 hours ago, A1d4n4Ev3r said:

No, just different. I just don't want it. It's not me, who I am, what I want to do or would choose. 

Neither sexual orientation or gender identity are a choice. You can't "choose" to be asexual, even if you are unhappy with your sexuality. You can choose to be celibate, but I don't think celibacy is a good substitute for therapy.

[GlamRocker]

@A1d4n4Ev3r I say, go celibacy!!! I can't see what it would hurt to at least try it out and see if it makes you feel better. Because IF IT WORKS, IT'S NOT WRONG.

Wishing you success!

[Philip027]

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I'm standing in line, it's a hot summer day, woman in front of me is in a skirt, she seems kind of not my type and actually I wouldn't connect with her aside from an acquantance at best, she bends over, I see up her skirt, white panties and a cute butt, I start to feel a rush of adrenaline, my heart speeds up a bit, I think a bit of blood is flowing to my penis, but again I don't want to experience or feel this - this is arousal, correct?

To me that is explicitly sexual attraction.  It isn't necessarily about whether or not it's desired, whether you feel comfortable with it, or whether you actually WOULD have sex with the person -- loads of sexual people can attest to being attracted to people they know are not a good match for them, and to being attracted to someone they never actually would have sex with for various reasons.  Arousal is something that can happen totally separately from the visual "stimulus" of another person.

 

It's up to you whether you think this makes you sexual or not.  Personally, I don't think determining sexual orientation solely by attraction is very useful, particularly because of cases like yours -- you're technically attracted, but you still never want the sex.  I think this is actually very common, not even just for sexual people but also for people who identify as ace.  It simply wouldn't be useful for people like you to say to others that you're "technically heterosexual, but I will never have sex with you"; it's just going to lead other people on and confuse the shit out of them.