I'm sexual but...

[superblonde]

6 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I wouldn’t call our approach to Santa a “lie” but an incomplete truth

This is a lie in and of itself. Santa is a COMPLETE lie. I mean, how do you even tell yourself different? Magical man flies through the air all over the world in one night and comes down chimneys to give people gifts? What part of that is truth in any capacity?

 

8 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I think it’s important to let kids discover reality for themselves; the world is full of people telling you what to believe, knowing how to sort it out for yourself is an important skill.

You are also ignoring the fact that I had, in my story, already worked it out with no adult help. There is a big difference between letting kids work it out and lying to their face when they say, "Stop lying to me." It's obvious that many people don't see that difference. They don't want to see that difference.

[Guest]

 

1 minute ago, anisotrophic said:

 

@Serran yeah I don’t envy your position there, navigating not being at odds with all the differing parental approaches. 😕

It is awkward 😛 Especially when you have JWs, Jewish kids etc. It is like... OK so... yeah I know mom says Santa isn't real and it is a bad holiday but... and yeah I know you guys don't do Christmas, you do Hanukkah but... 

 

I think easiest is to just teach the holidays as a thing people do and everyone is different. It just gets awkward when it comes up for other topics (like real vs make believe) cause then you really get it going with 20 kids who all believe different stuff and are not afraid to speak up!

 

1 minute ago, anisotrophic said:

 

I *do* enjoy the Santa & other fictions, and it’s something an older sibling can enjoy sustaining for younger sibs. Stories remain fun & touching & create shared experiences, even when you know they aren’t “real”.

 

I think it’s important to let kids discover reality for themselves; the world is full of people telling you what to believe, knowing how to sort it out for yourself is an important skill. I wouldn’t call our approach to Santa a “lie” but an incomplete truth that I agree is incomplete when they start questioning it & explore the incompleteness and inconsistency with them. It actually sustained so late for the oldest that my mom was concerned that peers would mock, but it turned out well.

I think if I were to ever have kids, I'd just leave it up to them. Like religion. If their best friend believes and thus they do too, OK. I wont add to it, but I wouldn't take it away. Maybe play some lore stories from various cultures for them as education to let them decide what they want to follow. Leave some gifts with no tag for them to decide where they came from, if they choose to believe it. Not say yes, not say no. Just ask guiding questions. And when they figure out it is a fable, show them the story of the myth educational videos. 

 

I was pushed into JWs by my family, but my mom let me pick for myself. So, I ended up agnostic with no religion. Lack of evidence either way, no clear conclusion. 

[ryn2]

29 minutes ago, Serran said:

the guilt as an adult after realizing how bad a position I put my family in

I didn’t/don’t feel this because my mother lied to me about their economic situation and always found a way to make it about me.  Anything to not have to say “we can’t afford that.”

[superblonde]

I think it's also important to note, that if the lesson of, "figuring out Santa isn't real on your own," is to think for yourself, be careful what you wish for. Like I said before, my parents, as well as the vast majority of society, are totally horrified by myself and my existence because I destroy the lies they hold dear on a daily basis. I'm a walking cognitive dissonance machine that many live in terror of.

 

What I'm trying to say is, I think you are lying to yourself yet again. You don't want your kids to think for themselves, to learn critical thinking skills from the Santa lie. What you really want is to teach them blind submission to authority, and the acceptance of corruption. Wait and see.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

I didn’t/don’t feel this because my mother lied to me about their economic situation and always found a way to make it about me.  Anything to not have to say “we can’t afford that.”

My family was always really open with me. Even at 5, when we had to split a soda 3 ways cause we could only afford one. I was given money to keep safe and all that at 9-10 cause my mom knew I had learned the value of money. A lot of it was the way my family did gifts. And now as an adult, I am the responsible one with money and my family is always broke. So, I appreciate the lessons even if they couldn't learn from them themselves ! Got me good credit and a savings account, when the rest of my family has bankruptcy. 

 

4 minutes ago, CBC said:

Re: kids and belief in Santa and whether it's an acceptable lie... (there's actually a current-ish thread somewhere else on the forums about this topic)... I've thought about this, and my conclusion was that it's fine. On the one hand, yep, you're lying. And we teach children they shouldn't lie. But on the other, imagine being the only kid amongst your friends whose parents thought it was wrong, and getting to see your friends excited about Christmas and Santa Claus, watching all the holiday films, reading the classic stories about him, etc. and feeling like your parents were killing off some sort of joy that everyone else got to have. To me, excluding your children from a cultural tradition and making them a bit of a social outcast is worse than participating in what I see as a harmless white lie for the sake of fun and feeling of... well, magic.

 

I'm sure my feelings are influenced by my dad's approach to life. I got to have Santa Claus, but on the other hand I constantly heard about how he didn't get to do certain things growing up in the 1940s that I potentially had access to, he found the internet useless and unnecessary when it started becoming a thing that all my friends had at home, etc. I was supposed to be like him, live his same experiences or something, and it felt unfair and put me at a social disadvantage.

 

I'm sure there are some people out there who were deeply upset about Santa Claus not being real, but I doubt that's the majority and I'd be willing to take the 'risk' if I was a parent.

See, I was raised to not be allowed to watch any of that or participate out of respect for my grandmother. It didn't bother me at all. The thing I found annoying was the cant even watch something with demons in it if we know its fake cause it was against her religion! Argh. I had to hide playing Diablo with my brother cause she would get offended. 

 

But... I knew the other kids had been told lies and we were told not to ruin it for them. So, we were careful when discussing childbirth, or holidays etc. Since most kids my age thought babies came from cabbage patches and all that. We just let them tell their stories and kept quiet about the fact we knew it wasn't true. Which, again, good lesson for adulting - you have to keep your mouth shut a lot as an adult cause adults say so much BS! So I just got early practice. 

 

[ryn2]

Just now, Serran said:

My family was always really open with me.

I wish mine had been.  I guess my mom was projecting her shame?

[anisotrophic]

1 minute ago, superblonde said:

This is a lie in and of itself. Santa is a COMPLETE lie. I mean, how do you even tell yourself different? Magical man flies through the air all over the world in one night and comes down chimneys to give people gifts? What part of that is truth in any capacity?

So much of the world is a partial truth. Am I really voting for a president, or giving a direction to an elector who I hope will follow their instructions? Is orange even a color, or a wavelength, or a qualia describing any combinations of wavelengths that result in opsin receptor activations that are the same as would occur for a “pure wavelength” (and that a significant portion of humanity doesn’t experience)? It’s still true that orange is a color, it’s ok to teach that first. Truths are layered things. Santa is a true thing as a tradition, a role, a story that has many tellings.

 

2 minutes ago, superblonde said:

What I'm trying to say is, I think you are lying to yourself yet again. You don't want your kids to think for themselves, to learn critical thinking skills from the Santa lie. What you really want is to teach them blind submission to authority, and the acceptance of corruption. Wait and see.

Given my children face questions about basic assumptions regarding gender itself as I transition, I doubt they’re being taught blind submission to anything.
 

I’m not interested in anyone being horrified when they learn more about anything, although it can happen. We all fall prey to assumptions. I don’t think you should assume Santa is always being distributed to kids in a fashion that is so negative.

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, Serran said:

I knew the other kids had been told lies and we were told not to ruin it for them. So, we were careful when discussing childbirth, or holidays etc. Since most kids my age thought babies came from cabbage patches and all that. We just let them tell their stories and kept quiet about the fact we knew it wasn't true. Which, again, good lesson for adulting - you have to keep your mouth shut a lot as an adult cause adults say so much BS! So I just got early practice. 

Same (for different reasons) and agreed.

[ryn2]

Yeah, there was a lot of that in my family as well.  I never really got to discuss it with them, though, as they died before I started counseling.

[superblonde]

18 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

So much of the world is a partial truth.

You know the other word for "partial truth"? I'll give you a hint. It begins with L and end in IE.

 

I can see that you are comfortable with that, and think that others should be, too. Like I said, that's the real point of the Santa lie. To initiate kids into the acceptance of lies and corruption.

[anisotrophic]

6 minutes ago, superblonde said:

You know the other word for "partial truth"? I'll give you a hint. It begins with L and end in IE.

Yes, of course the color orange is a lie. It didn’t even exist linguistically until fairly recently. Colors are lies we tell each other, and not everyone sees. Words are constructs, with many meanings, sometimes at odds with each other — I suppose it’s a moot point, this distinction between lies and partial truths.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, CBC said:

Yeah me too, about a lot of things. My parents came with a facade of We Have Our Shit Together And We Don't Discuss Messy Life Things. I know it's not something you tell a young child, but as someone with several decades of mental health struggles under my belt now, my mum mentioning that she tried to commit suicide in her mid-20s would've been something good to know a little earlier than last year. And it makes me wonder why she never seemed to actually be interested in what was really happening in my brain underneath the various symptoms and behaviours (like starving myself, dropping out of school, executive functioning issues, things she thought were amusing -- but irritating -- little quirks etc.). She just wanted someone to fix the behaviours and struggles, a nice neat fix. And my dad didn't seem to consider my problems to be his responsibility at all.

Yeah. It sucks when parents try to pretend perfection. 

 

My family ... is a mess. And they never hid the mess. Even when I was a kid. At ... 12 or 13 my Aunt attempted suicide and we were told all about it. And it kinda made me value honesty quite a lot. My dad lied, a lot, about a lot. Haven't talked to him now for over a decade. Lies are the main thing that will make me cut you off. Which, I have to be careful cause I can be a tad too honest... I have to play the social white lie game professionally. But, personal life? Give me honesty or go away. I dont have time for pretending. 

 

My wife on the other hand grew up having to hide so a lot of our struggles, even sexually, are around her not wanting to be open with me. That is like the one thing I demand, be open, be honest. I can handle a lot of mess, but if I have to find out the mess is there myself then we will have issues! 

 

Hopefully at least now you have a more open relationship with your mom if shes told you that much? 

[superblonde]

@anisotrophic A moot point? The difference between lies and partial truths? This "moot point" is that there isn't a difference, this was covered. I wonder why you think this point is so moot? Didn't I cover that, too?

 

Also, to address the elephant in the room, colors not really being colors as we think of them is a lot different than telling someone a magic fat man brings them elf made presents off a flying reindeer powered sleigh. Additionally, no one is trying to sustain the lie of colors. Because there's no stakes in it, not like the stakes in trying to get a subordinate to suspend their disbelief in something that is so obviously fabricated, to train them to submit to authority no matter how ridiculous or wrong.

[Traveler40]

10 minutes ago, superblonde said:

@anisotrophic A moot point? The difference between lies and partial truths? This "moot point" is that there isn't a difference, this was covered. I wonder why you think this point is so moot? Didn't I cover that, too?

 

Also, to address the elephant in the room, colors not really being colors as we think of them is a lot different than telling someone a magic fat man brings them elf made presents off a flying reindeer powered sleigh. Additionally, no one is trying to sustain the lie of colors. Because there's no stakes in it, not like the stakes in trying to get a subordinate to suspend their disbelief in something that is so obviously fabricated, to train them to submit to authority no matter how ridiculous or wrong.

This seems rather angry and smacks of trolling IMO. Just agree to disagree and move on perhaps? We all don’t see it the same way.

 

Using colors again, life isn’t so black and white. Perspective is a beautiful thing.

 

I’m off to play a round of golf - it’s gorgeous out today! 💕✌️

[Guest]

Mmm. 

 

I mean, all of school is teaching kids to submit to authority. Because to work in a business, we need to submit to authority and to function in society we also need to. It just is how the world works. So, if the myths and fables add to that, it is just another part of our functioning society. 

 

Of course, some dislike it. But, if you are anti-authority, literally I have an entire team of experts that work with me in how to manipulate children (using toys and candy and other goodies) in how to get them to submit to authority and learn how to be good workers as adults. So. You won't fix that issue even if you take away religion and holiday myths. 

[superblonde]

@Traveler40 You call it trolling, because you don't like what I've said.

 

This isn't surprising, I mentioned this before.  If the point of Santa is to teach kids to think for themselves, why is everyone so offended when others did just that and don't agree with them?

 

2 minutes ago, Serran said:

Of course, some dislike it. But, if you are anti-authority

I'm not anti-authority in all cases. Just in the bad cases. Sadly, most of them are bad cases. Just look at what my country is going through.

 

3 minutes ago, Serran said:

literally I have an entire team of experts that work with me in how to manipulate children in how to get them to submit to authority

I'm not surprised by this, it's exactly what I expected.

 

4 minutes ago, Serran said:

 in how to get them to submit to authority and learn how to be good workers as adults.

But I disagree that submission to authority is a quality of good workers. Unless you're into My Lai

 

5 minutes ago, Serran said:

So. You won't fix that issue even if you take away religion and holiday myths. 

Never said it would fix it. Only said that claiming the Santa lie is about teaching kids to think for themselves is a lie in and of itself. It's about submission to authority and the acceptance of corruption. If it wasn't, Christian families would be much more careful to engage in it. 

[anisotrophic]

It’s funny to see someone so committed to accusing me of being sheeple. It’s as if there’s an iconoclast identity wrapped up in the whole thing. Smash the Santa.

 

I was engaging in wordplay with the word “moot”, the very usage is ambiguous and self-contradicting. At some point my humor is so obscure I’m just amusing myself...

[Traveler40]

50 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

At some point my humor is so obscure I’m just amusing myself...

✋🏼  I’m amused! 

[Traveler40]

Sitting here waiting for Santa go time, I realized that my Christmas wish came true yesterday: My lover came over and spent the afternoon snuggled up with the kids and me as we watched a movie. Dreams do come true 💕

 

Merry Christmas to all (who celebrate) and to all a good night! 🎄 

[Philip027]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:39 AM, superblonde said:

I was pretty sure Santa wasn't real by the time I was five. However, I knew my parents were really invested in it. This made me a bit mad and made me question whether or not I should trust them In anything.

 

So, and I remember this as clearly as if it happened yesterday, when I was five years old, after I'd buckled myself in the back seat of the car after we were about to go somewhere, I said to them, "Tell me the truth. Is there a Santa Claus? Don't lie, or I'll never forgive you."

 

I could see that my Dad was about to tell me the truth, but my Mom stopped him and told me Santa was real. I knew from that day that neither of my parents were trustworthy, though my Dad was better than my Mom. This has held true to this day.

 

But just to see how far they'd let it go, I pretended to believe until I was ten years old. I even pretended to believe at school, so it never got back to them. I laid it on thick, with letters to Santa and everything. Then, when I was ten, I found one of their Christmas gifts hidden and decided now was the time. On Christmas day, when I opened it and it said, "from Santa," I told them I had found this gift in the closet a month before.

 

I furiously demanded to know why they had lied to me. My mother said, "We just thought you'd figure it out and stop believing." I said, "So you thought I would just turn disloyal and stop trusting you?" I also said, "I stand by my promise. I'll never forgive you."

 

Think twice before you lie to your kids for fun, folks

 

Of course, they are horrified by my world view in general as an adult. They know I don't believe in God or any of the fluffy rubbish people cling to. Well what did you expect? Liars

Yeah...

 

I wasn't as aggressive about it as you were (and I'm not trying to suggest you were in the wrong for it, either; I just wasn't a very aggressive kid), but I also did not appreciate having this lie perpetuated to me either, and I feel it did more harm than good to me overall and contributed to the level of cynicism I tend to express today.

 

If I ever were to have a kid of my own, I simply would not be able to perpetuate that lie to them; my conscience wouldn't allow me to do so, not after the experiences I've had.  But I would tell them this: "Santa" is not a physical being that exists, nor some magical force of nature -- but more of an idea; an embodiment of the Christmas spirit, if you will.  That idea is given the form that it has because it's something that injects somewhat of a "magical" factor into Christmas that makes it more charming and appealing (particularly for kids), not unlike how people get behind religion/gods and give them form because it's something that gives them purpose to their lives and gives them a potential answer to why they are there, what drives them in life, and what they have to potentially look forward to after that life (regardless of whether or not those things are actually "correct")

 

Basically my goal would be to get the kid to understand that, while "Santa" isn't necessarily real, the passion behind Christmas and making it a fun, anticipatory, festive holiday (for the kids especially) is still real for many, and "Santa" is simply a figure/vessel used to help make that "magic" happen.  As such, it's not going to do a whole lot of good to go shouting throughout your entire school about how "Santa isn't real!!" or whatever, much like how it won't do a whole lot of good to go barging into a church proclaiming that God doesn't exist.  Even if you're right, it doesn't necessarily make it a battle worth fighting.  Important life lesson in general, actually -- picking your battles carefully.

 

And maybe that would make me a boring parent, but so be it.  The way I see it, I would both want my kid to feel like they could trust me implicitly, and for me to do right by my kid enough to feel like I'm actually worthy of that trust.  I may not necessarily have direct control over the former, but I definitely do over the latter -- and allowing my kid to buy in to the whole Santa thing is something that would really make me feel like I'm not worthy of the latter.  Maybe other parents could stomach that, but I know I couldn't.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Anyway.  Blah blah blah, nobody asked to hear about my hypothetical parenting practices, etc.

[Reve]

I'm a sexual, and honestly, the thing I miss the most is cuddles and someone to look at me "that way". I have the look, luckily and have a relationship with amazing and caring Ace woman, but because of COVID-19 I'm missing the cuddles.

 

It's the one thing I miss the most when I'm single. The stares into your eyes, the caresses, the hugs and sighs.

Sex is one of the last on the list.

 

It's not the first thing we worry about tbh.

Don't fear, Asexuals. We do like sex, yes.

We prefer to be treated as human beings first.

[Halffull]

DONUTS!!

[Traveler40]

...Just got back from the most perfect (and perfectly sexless) weekend with the family! 🙌🏻
 

I highly recommend staying at a fabulous Ranch at least once in your life. #worthit

[SusannaC]

What sort of “ranch” are you referring to?  I may be looking for a perfectly sexless vacation myself this summer!

[Ceebs]

The closest my budget lets me get to 'ranch' is salad dressing...

 

Mind you, I don't think I've eaten it in years. I prefer Catalina, or maybe just a nice herby vinaigrette.

[Ceebs]

Obviously it's taking great restraint not to post photos of sexy ranch hands here right now.  

[SusannaC]

Now that sounds yummy to me! 

[SusannaC]

I mean if I’m gonna do a sexless fantastic vacation at a ranch that’s the least I’d expect😝

[Ceebs]

7 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

I mean if I’m gonna do a sexless fantastic vacation at a ranch that’s the least I’d expect😝

Might as well put something delicious in your mouth...

 

No filter, me. 😂

[anisotrophic]

3 hours ago, CBC said:

The closest my budget lets me get to 'ranch' is salad dressing...

 

Mind you, I don't think I've eaten it in years. I prefer Catalina, or maybe just a nice herby vinaigrette.

Haha the first thing I thought given the topic was the island. But you’re not the one in SoCal.

 

3 hours ago, CBC said:

Obviously it's taking great restraint not to post photos of sexy ranch hands here right now.  

Shiiiit that just confirmed I’m still attracted to men. 😂 I’ve been wondering wtf my orientation is these days, where it’s going, whether it’s expanding or drifting or what.