I'm sexual but...

[Philip027]

Quote

I’m sexual but... I have never, ever had a crush on someone I didn’t know somewhat well. (i.e. talked to them a lot, like as friends)

Same (aside from the sexual bit).

 

Some would call it into question, like my mom, who believes that you don't ever really know someone well until you've at least spent time being/living together in person.  She has her reasons for thinking this way, having been through two divorces, but needless to say (as someone who has only ever developed feelings for people over the internet) I don't think it's necessarily true.

[ryn2]

6 hours ago, CBC said:

Not quite the same as my experiences, but absolutely I've had the situation where I develop feelings for someone, get to know them more closely, and then I'm like, "Well you're a fuckin' twat now, aren't you." 😂 (I believe we try to label that as "fraysexual" round here... 🙄🙄🙄)

I know everyone thinks the labels are a bit much, but that’s not what frey is...  it’s more a case of only liking the chase and always being turned off sexually by “catching” the person, even when the person is really great and you actually really like them.

 

I.e., getting to know and like people is a turnoff (every time) rather than a continuing turn-on.

[ryn2]

6 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Yeah, who cares at that point?

The person who gets arrested for scattering you!  

[Philip027]

Quote

Not quite the same as my experiences, but absolutely I've had the situation where I develop feelings for someone, get to know them more closely, and then I'm like, "Well you're a fuckin' twat now, aren't you." 😂 (I believe we try to label that as "fraysexual" round here... 🙄🙄🙄)

Nah, that's not fraysexual, that's a Broken Pedestal Otherwise known as "never meet your heroes!"

 

I think when it's labeled fraysexual/romantic it's when there's no real discernable reason for the feelings to fade away; they just inexplicably and regularly do, often to the frustration of the person who had the feelings in the first place because they're left wondering why they can't feel for somebody long-term like seemingly everyone else can.  While that isn't something I experience (I'm the opposite; my crushes never go away, even after the relationship ends or after it's confirmed a relationship could never exist), I guess as someone who's undergone depression and is therefore acutely aware of experiencing extreme emotions that come and go also for no real reason at all, I can still sort of relate to it to a limited extent.

[ryn2]

6 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

you don't ever really know someone well until you've at least spent time being/living together in person.

I think people can be deceitful in person, or online.  The more time you spend with someone (in whatever setting) the better the odds they will slip and show their true motives but some people are just better at lying and hiding than others are.

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, CBC said:

Yeah, I'm actually aware of that. There's definitely a difference between sometimes and always. In the case of "always", I would tend to assume it was an issue surrounding the ability to connect emotionally and intimately with other people rather than an orientation sort of thing.

I didn’t think the microlabels were considered orientations but maybe I misunderstood.

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

I think when it's labeled fraysexual/romantic it's when there's no real discernable reason for the feelings to fade away; they just inexplicably and regularly do, often to the frustration of the person who had the feelings in the first place because they're left wondering why they can't feel for somebody long-term like seemingly everyone else can.

*nods*
 

When the problem is “person is an arsehole!” that’s just life.

[Traveler40]

Holy folks! I went to bed hours ago, woke up and this thread is still hot...SPFA Chatter. Fun times!  
 

“needing my beauty rest” is a bit of an inside joke. I have to say, 5.5 hours doesn’t quite qualify. It’s going to be a rough Wednesday here as I plan to rally.  
 

So far, Siri has no idea who I am and refuses to respond. Apparently, I still don’t sound myself. Sigh.  Morning to you all!

[ryn2]

Siri didn’t get her beauty rest!

[Traveler40]

38 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I think people can be deceitful in person, or online.  The more time you spend with someone (in whatever setting) the better the odds they will slip and show their true motives but some people are just better at lying and hiding than others are.

God that’s so pessimistic, yet true. It definitely applies to my stepmonster and one sister-in-law.  Textbook! 

[Traveler40]

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Siri didn’t get her beauty rest!

Oh snap! That’s hilarious 😆 

[Traveler40]

1 minute ago, CBC said:

CBC as in the national public broadcaster

Yeah, Schitt’s Creek has become quite popular down south. CBC’s latest hit in the States. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

God that’s so pessimistic, yet true. It definitely applies to my stepmonster and one sister-in-law.  Textbook! 

I don’t mean to imply *everyone* is deceitful, just that spending time together in person is not a guarantee you (the universal you) will uncover deceit that does exist.

[Traveler40]

Oh I know Ryn, just had to apply your insight.  I tend to find women can be quite effective and efficient at deceit especially where men are concerned. If there’s a goal and a need...

 

Before anyone freaks out, that’s been an observation, I’m not implying a universal truth or trying to creat a stir 🙄

 

Ok, my mature, 47 year old self needs to step back in and take over the brain.  I’m off to shower and get the kids up.  Have a good day and perhaps things will still be “hot” later. (Kinda hoping they will be!)

[ryn2]

A lot of people are quite good at deceit.  Others are really bad at it.  We do tend to encourage it as a society with “little white lies” and “sparing people’s feelings” and the like.

 

When someone gets caught at doing something they shouldn’t be they (and we) often regret/mourn the getting caught more than the act itself.

[Traveler40]

4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

A lot of people are quite good at deceit.  Others are really bad at it.  We do tend to encourage it as a society with “little white lies” and “sparing people’s feelings” and the like.

 

When someone gets caught at doing something they shouldn’t be they (and we) often regret/mourn the getting caught more than the act itself.

Agreed.  I take a militant approach to liars and have a zero tolerance policy.  My kids know and understand that the worst truth is better than a lie. They live that and have learned the benefits. 
 

Being known as the truthful one provides insights the liars can’t see....love my children learning those lessons so young.

 

It’s hard to teach kids that lesson since most kids around them lie so much and get away with it. It’s not until they get known as the truthful one that they see the power shift. I’ve loved watching that happen.  Lifelong lesson ✅

[Philip027]

Deceit is a lot easier when someone would rather believe the lie, as well.

[ryn2]

Yeah, many parents inadvertently teach their children to lie by punishing them for speaking up honestly, saying things like “I’m so glad I don’t have to worry about you doing x like little Susie’s parents do” when the kids ARE doing x, and so on.

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

Deceit is a lot easier when someone would rather believe the lie, as well.

Very true.

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, CBC said:

I'm one of them. Decent enough, anyway. Don't mean that in a boastful way whatsoever though, it just sort of... is. Which is not at all to say that I'm a constant liar or have no conscience, just that if needs be, I can be good at it. I'm generally a pretty honest person, but I will lie if it seems like the best choice in navigating a difficult situation. That's... just me. 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

I'll lie to save my own ass in certain situations though for sure.

Same, although I try very hard not to do the bolded part - or, at least, to carefully weigh it out and not just knee-jerk lie - these days and have for many years now.

 

It was the best approach with my mother by far and it took a long time to unlearn.

[ryn2]

22 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

It’s not until they get known as the truthful one that they see the power shift

I’m glad this is the experience they’ve had!  Mine was that telling the truth in school is punished and shamed (the kid who reminds the teacher about homework, the tattletale, the narc).

[AceMissBehaving]

1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

Deceit is a lot easier when someone would rather believe the lie, as well.

This is how as a kid I was taught how to be an incredibly adept liar. On a large number of occasions when I told the truth I wasn’t believed and punished severely. Eventually I started to lie instead, and the lies were accepted. I’d think before speaking and figure out what version events would be most believable to my mum. It turned out the truth wasn’t typically the one that she’d listen to, and so I started to lie as a self presentation tactic. It was something I had to work really hard to overcome as I grew up.

I’m still really good at it, but work to stay truthful.

[ryn2]

2 minutes ago, AceMissBehaving said:

This is how as a kid I was taught how to be an incredibly adept liar. On a large number of occasions when I told the truth I wasn’t believed and punished severely. Eventually I started to lie instead, and the lies were accepted. I’d think before speaking and figure out what version events would be most believable to my mum. It turned out the truth wasn’t typically the one that she’d listen to, and so I started to lie as a self presentation tactic. It was something I had to work really hard to overcome as I grew up.

I’m still really good at it, but work to stay truthful.

Yes!  I was actually punished for lying when I was honest.

[Snao Cone]

I never lie.

[AceMissBehaving]

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Yes!  I was actually punished for lying when I was honest.

Same, all the damn time. 

[ryn2]

1 minute ago, AceMissBehaving said:

Same, all the damn time. 

It was so frustrating!  Not only punishment but gaslighting!

[AceMissBehaving]

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

It was so frustrating!  Not only punishment but gaslighting!

Yup, same/ It really fucked me up my ability to believe in my own experiences.

[Philip027]

Gotta love those Cassandra Truth scenarios.

 

Personally, I'm complete garbage at lying so I never even try.  The worst I might end up doing is "lying" by omission, which can only really be held against you in a court of law (which is why you get sworn to tell "the whole truth"), which thankfully I've so far not ended up in at any point in my life.  I've not usually had problems with people not believing what I say (possibly because of building up a reputation for being honest), but I have run into the problem of assuming everyone else is being as truthful as I am many a time.  Gullibility has been one of my biggest flaws, but it's gradually being worked upon.

 

There was one little moment at the beginning of the game Life is Strange 2 that I appreciated, where the (teenaged) player has to try to borrow some money from his father for the purpose of getting some alcohol for a party.  The father, clearly already having some idea, will inquire as to what the money is for.  If you are completely honest about it, he'll commend you for your honesty and give you the money, recognizing that it's a sort of thing teens will do and trying to forbid it won't do any good.  Presumably, trying to spin a lie won't work out in this scenario.

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, AceMissBehaving said:

Yup, same/ It really fucked me up my ability to believe in my own experiences.

Agreed.  So much “that can’t possibly have happened!” when... it did.  So I got bullied, wasn’t believed/supported, and then got punished for “lying” about it.

 

And my mother was teacher at my elementary school/was involved in several teacher groups throughout the district, so teachers tended to... refrain from telling her she was wrong and attempt to hide things that might cause her to be angry with them.

[anisotrophic]

I find lying is too much work. 🤷‍♂️
 

One thing that frustrates me is an unintended lie (misleading assurance, overconfidence) that could have been avoided with introspection — I consider a failure to attempt some amount of introspection & self-skepticism to be disrespectful to others.