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Sinking_In

How do YOU compromise in a mixed relationship?

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Sinking_In

I really appreciate this candid discussion. @Whore*of*Mensa I would simply say that (in general) sex is more enjoyable and fulfilling when attraction and emotions are involved. Of course that comes with the good, the bad and the ugly emotions carry with them, but (again, generally speaking) the more intense the emotions and attraction, the more intense the sexual experience. What my wife and I may lack in our sexual relationship (I still find her incredibly sexually attractive, and what little sex we have I've always thought was fulfilling and satisfying at that fleeting moment), we have an emotional, enjoyable and fulfilling loving relationship in all other aspects of life. As of right now, I don't believe my sharing a fulfilling sexual relationship with someone else, however emotional vested, will change those feelings I have for my wife. I concede that emotions have a way of mucking things up in any relationship, but I honestly love my wife very much, and I believe I will remain attracted to her in every way. She might even argue I still give her way too much attention, but she hasn't complained about it, yet.

 

Having vested so much into one woman at a time, as per the expected societal norm, I think I may believe that polyamory may have been healthier for me from the get-go. The jury is still out on that, but I am open to the idea that I can maintain a healthy love for more than one person. My age and life experience may also play a key role in that, but it's where I am now, nonetheless.

 

I'll also add that my wife and I have been very close these past few days.

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Whore*of*Mensa

@Sinking_In Thank you for replying. I am sure it is possible to love more than one person at a time, and polyamory may well be healthier for some people. I guess each individual has to make up their own mind based on the information they have at the time, and their own feelings. I've gained a lot of information here, so thank you. 

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SithEmpress
7 hours ago, Whore*of*Mensa said:

It's true, we are very much conditioned to expect a mutually exclusive, romantic relationship. I have to admit there were times in my marriage when I thought that my husband could do with two of me, and I could do with about half of him, as his needs were basically too much for me. I cannot say the thought of a poly relationship did not enter my head...But there is emotional baggage that comes with it, and maybe that's greater if you started in a mutually exclusive relationship.  I think that there is a difference between entering into a relationship in the knowledge that it is open/poly, and entering into an exclusive romantic relationship then trying to change it. 

I think we are indeed socialized to expect a monogamous relationship. But I think the poly relationship has more to do with the people involved than it does with how the relationship started. Brbdogsonfire and I are in an open relationship yet neither of us have pursued anything. If he did, I don't think I'd have a problem with it unless I was lowered in terms of status in his life. I don't know if I could handle a triad situation, for example, but I could deal with him seeing people on the side. He's expressed more reservations about being open and said it felt wrong when he tried to act on it, yet is willing to try if we ever became sexless.

 

Our relationship didn't start open, it became that way around... 3 years in? I forget, but I think it was the first time I went abroad, not too sure. He's better at remembering those details. Neither of us entered into the relationship with the idea of it being poly, and my boyfriend was expressly against it for a while. I'm glad it wasn't open from the beginning, because I don't know if our relationship would have lasted if I had entered into it thinking he could get all his sexual needs satisfied elsewhere (there's a long reason I believe this). 

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Whore*of*Mensa

@SithGrinch I’m glad you and your partner seem to be finding solutions that work for you...

 

I’m the same in that ‘seeing people on the side’ sounds fine, but when you read these accounts of what it actually means, it’s much more serious than that. I could never put myself in such a risky position, personally- but I am old and cynical.

 

All I’d say is that the ace partner should know exactly what they’re getting into. It sounds as if therapy is beneficial as well. I’m sure it can work well for some people.

 

Edit: I’m sorry if I went too far in stating my opinion. I think that opening a relationship just requires a level of confidence and trust that I personally have never felt. But of course that depends on the relationship and the people in it. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences.

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Sinking_In
7 hours ago, Whore*of*Mensa said:

‘seeing people on the side’ sounds fine, but when you read these accounts of what it actually means, it’s much more serious than that. I could never put myself in such a risky position, personally- but I am old and cynical.

 

All I’d say is that the ace partner should know exactly what they’re getting into. It sounds as if therapy is beneficial as well.

 

It can be different for everyone. Some folks are fine with just a "booty call", as long as that works for everyone involved. It certainly sounds safe/ ideal for establishing the priority/ primary relationship without fear of emotional attachments with the new partner. Of course reality is much different. I am certain, without a doubt, that if my wife were to be witness to one of my sexual encounters, it would give her pause. She would most certainly be envious, if not outright jealous, although probably shocked and repulsed all at the same time. This is why she wants no part in it, and why I have to double my efforts to make sure it's not in the forefront of her thoughts. Out of site, out of mind, and as long as everyone is happy, then it can continue. Obviously, this is taking an incredible amount of trust on my wife's part. I know it can't be easy, but she is doing it out of love. I just have to respect that.

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Janus DarkFox

The mono and poly relationship think for me, I don’t mind if I have feelings for mor than one person at the time or pursue a second relationship at the same time, if there where ever feelings for anybody that is.  All I have is interest with my current BF and nothing more at any point in my life, the difference is that I’m likely naturally monogamous.

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Sinking_In

It's been a month since I've started seeing my..."lover" is probably the best title for the time being. I've already tripped up a few times, having stayed out much too late with her, but I've adjusted, and have come to an understanding with both my wife and my lover. We're seeing each other about once a week, which for now is enough for all involved. It seems to keep us satisfied without overdoing it. We talk or text just a few times a week (never in front of my family). We're seeing one another tonight, and my wife has approved (I also promised to be home later tonight). I've been reading "More Than Two" on polyamory, and I'm giving "Opening Up" to my lover to read. She is very interested to learn more on how this works, as it is new to all of us. She even likes the idea of going to polyamorous couples counseling. I am certain she will find some struggles as this goes on, so this is a good thing to have.

I spent the holiday week with my family, and my wife and I were very close, and we all had a lot of fun. So far, despite occasional fears and mistakes, this seems to be working out. I look forward to spending time with my lover, and I look forward to spending time with my wife and family. I'm getting urges to better myself, as well, in other aspects of my life. My lover says I'm bringing a lot of positive energy into her life, and I think I'm just exuding it around everyone, now.

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Jules82

My husband and I have been together for almost 20 years. I am very sexual and he is not. We have struggled along all this time with what I always interpreted as him not being as attracted to me as I was to him. We would have ups and downs sexually-- and when he's interested things are amazing! But it's been years of me feeling hurt and rejected and my self esteem being crushed every time I get rejected. Only this year did he get all the usual health screenings done to make sure there wasn't a hormone issue or something. He was completely healthy. That led me to do research that I introduced me to the whole idea of Gray A. I had always thought asexual just meant zero sex, and he is interested once in a while. Now we are both better informed,   but we are so far into the relationship that I don't know where to start. I wish we could have gone into it better informed, but we were just kids and he didnt even have a name for his way of being. Now I am stumped. Even though I better understand that it really IS not a matter of me being an unloveable human being, the sense of feeling so lonely in a relationship is painful. I try to give him space and respect his needs.  But at times I feel like doing that means completely ignoring my OWN needs for sensuality, etc, which is equally damaging. I see a lot of people talk about replacing sexual intimacy for other forms of physical intimacy like cuddling, etc. But the problem is he doesnt think to even do those things. I always have to initiate any sort of physical stuff and it leaves me feeling like a beggar, even though I know he doesnt mind hugs and kisses etc. Overall advice is welcome, but I was hoping someone might have ideas to feel connection even without any physical interaction??? Also, ive tried asking him to be more conscious of maybe giving a bit more touch and interaction, but then it feels contrived- like he's only doing it because he was asked.

Edited by Jules82
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anisotrophic
15 minutes ago, Jules82 said:

I was hoping someone might have ideas to feel connection even without any physical interaction???

One framework to consider is the “love languages”, to ask your partner how he expresses love. Or just observe it.

 

Personally this didn’t help me as expressed in the “five types” as such, I had to broaden that as I don’t think my partner expresses much interest in volunteering/initiating in any of those five categories (although he’s willing if I initiate), mostly “acts of service” if any, but also in some other ways (like patience, acceptance, highly supportive of me when I’m facing challenges or unhappy). He’s just generally passive. Paying attention to the ways you are special to your partner can help rebuild an awareness of being loved, albeit with a different “language”.

 

All that said, I still struggle at times.

 

@Sinking_In it’s great to hear you’re reading the books and considering counseling, it sounds like you doing well with being careful about this to ensure it’s positive.

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Memento1

Hey Jules!  Sorry you've been struggling with this for so long (20 years, wow!), and that you're feeling unfulfilled and ashamed.  It's great you're reaching out and attempting to do something about it.

 

I'm always a proponent of couples counseling (with a GOOD counselor...they're sadly not all good) to better open the lines of communication.  You need to be able to share these feelings with him and he needs to be able to hear them.  As anisotrophic said, love languages is a good subject to look into.  I'm also a huge fan of Sensate Focus as a way of exploring the sensuality/sexuality repertoire to facilitate nuanced discussions instead of black and white terms like no sex, no touch.

On 12/5/2019 at 9:40 PM, Jules82 said:

Also, ive tried asking him to be more conscious of maybe giving a bit more touch and interaction, but then it feels contrived- like he's only doing it because he was asked.

That's a great step!  I absolutely know this feeling, but it's one that destroys marriages once they leave the exhilarated-high romantic phase.  I prefer to flip the script: which is a greater sign of love?  The actions that came naturally and took no thought, or the ones that they had to think about and consciously did for you?  The important part is maintaining open communication about it - does he feel pressured and annoyed?  Do you feel pushy and guilty?  I'm not saying he has to do things he hates: I'm saying you need to talk about whether he hates them or they just don't come naturally.  Habits can change over time; meta-feelings of shame and disrespect tend not to.

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Memento1

@Sinking_In, glad to hear things are going well!  I admit I've become a bit attached to seeing how things go for you, as an experiment in whether these techniques can work.  Not that a single case study is proof, but data is data.  I think it's so wonderful that you're really trying to better yourself and all around you.

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Sinking_In

@Jules82 we've all been there, the feeling of rejection, the low blows to the ego, the anger, the sorrow, the confusion, the disappointment, etc. The good news is you're finding answers. Hopefully, you can stop assigning blame, both on yourself and your husband. That should be a huge weight lifted, though that is replaced by a new weight of "what to do now?!" Open communication is paramount. For the most part, as sexual beings, we know how to act on the slightest of urges or signals, and we naturally get into it. It's just not that way for gray/asexual people, generally speaking. It's not likely your husband will initiate, and when he does, it won't feel like you would expect from a sexual person. My wife is gray-ace, demiromantic, and nothing really gets her turned on. She craves affection like kissing and cuddling, but I will always have to initiate. You may have to do the same. It is what it is. The most I could ever get is "acceptance" in terms of sex, though once it happens, she experiences pleasure, but once it's done, it's done and forgotten. I don't get frustrated by that anymore. I now appreciate it as just her quirk, a pleasant curiosity, because to think anything more of it would be counterproductive. Keep talking it out, counseling probably couldn't hurt, and just keep reminding yourself that you love one another. Hopefully you'll find something that works.

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Sinking_In

@Memento1 I appreciate your thoughts, and interest. I hope my journey can help others, either through leading by example, or as a tale of caution. So far, so good, though. I saw my lover the other night, but we actually didn't have sex, and I was okay with that. I've once gone 8 months without sex, so a few weeks doesn't phase me. That also means that the anticipation for both my lover and myself will make the next time all the better. I've missed the anticipation, greatly. Having subdued my desire for so long, it's incredible to finally unleash it, and with someone who gleefully welcomes it. Obviously, my wife is due credit, because it's her openness, her love, her patience, and her understanding and trust that makes all of this possible. Though there are boundaries and limitations, I feel very free.

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Sinking_In

Well, now my lover is going through a rough patch. It's understandable with the holidays, and having a lover living separate lives. It comes with the territory, I know. I've been available, and comforting, listened and empathized, but she has a close relative in her ear who is full of negativity. She's heaping doubts on her about me, and I feel (our own relationship aside), that it isn't healthy for her. It's frustrating, because this relative is pulling my lover from the real happiness she is feeling now, with the lure of some fantasy that may or may not even make her happy. I have to find a way to reassure my lover, and put the negativity to rest. The sticking point is the relative is trying to convince my lover that I'm just cheating on my wife, behind her back, and it's all going to blow up in my lover's face (because that's exactly what happened to this relative of hers, or so she claims). In the end, it's my lover's choice, and I have to accept and honor what she decides. Of course, this could easily be squashed by my wife, but I also have to respect my wife's wishes to be no part of any of this. I've considered having my wife make a video, briefly explaining the situation, and giving me her blessing to see my lover. This way I wouldn't put my wife in an immediately uncomfortable position, though asking her to do the video may do the same. I have to think on it and approach it carefully. 

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Memento1

Wow, that's a tough one, @Sinking_In.  It definitely highlights some of the difficulties in polyamory, especially with a DADT policy.  It made me curious how this works in the polyamory community, but I'm mostly seeing things saying it usually doesn't work well.

 

"Many people in the polyamorous community frown on don’t ask, don’t tell relationships, and choose not to become involved in such relationships. There are many dangers in such relationships, including the idea that a person who claims to be involved in such a relationship may simply be cheating (as the relationship often provides no mechanism by which that person’s partner may be contacted to confirm that the relationship permits other relationships); the fact that many people choose DADT relationships as a way of avoiding and not dealing with emotional issues such as jealousy; and the fact that DADT relationships are built on a foundation of lack of communication within the existing relationship." - from More Than Two.

 

Although there were examples I read of it working, it seems like one of the harder constellations to maintain.  Maybe there's more info further in the polyamory community on how to deal with this - I only did a surface skim.

 

I have worried that your wife not wanting to know is a sign of jealousy / shame that could fester and get worse.  I don't know the conversations you've had with her, but I worry those are emotions she may not want to admit to (I wouldn't want to).

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Traveler40

FWIW, I would not involve your wife as it could be hugely detrimental. Frankly, I’d be resentful to be used in order to placate the new lover. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 
 

Trust is foundational, and it appears you’re getting sucked into the drama. Perhaps it’s because it all happened so fast and trust wasn’t fully established. I’m not sure.  Whatever it is, the key would be to put your foot down by laying out your expectations in a straightforward way. 
 

I wouldn’t put up with it in any relationship. Level with her and either she accepts it or she doesn’t, but the tail can’t wag the dog. Insecurity is one thing, but distrust is a whole different animal. It seems she has a choice: believe you or don’t, then pick a path accordingly.  That’s just IMHO. 
 

Full disclosure: I have very little tolerance for nonsense. 😬. I lived with it at all girl schools growing up, and that desire to control through taking you hostage emotionally isn’t acceptable.  My advice is squash it or cut bait. 
 

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Sinking_In

@Memento1 Yes, I read that, too. DADT is not ideal, but I know my wife, and she knows herself. I don't believe it's about jealously, really, but rather shame (on many different levels). She was good with me taking care of my needs, so long as it doesn't bring shame back to her. She comes from a culture that does not speak of such things, and keeps two faces, one for public, one for private, and troubling things are to be dealt with without much ado. The more I try to "work things out" with her, the more she resents it. She's like "can this problem be fixed without me? If yes, then just do it." Is it healthy? Not likely, but I get where it comes from, and we're talking about an entirely different culture thousands of years old.

 

Granted, I only just found out about this negative relative, and so it's still fresh. Thoughts are simply being hashed out, on all our parts. I haven't made any move to involve my wife in trying to calm my lover. For me, that's more or less a last resort kind of solution. I was just working the thoughts out on paper, so to speak. @Traveler40, the tough love stance was my first instinct, to just put my foot down and say "this is how it is, love it or leave it" (more or less), and it's still a thought. Today I spoke with my lover, and she is in a much better mood, and wants to see me. I'll try to make that happen and get a better feel for where her head is at. She does tend to overthink things, so I don't believe she was being dramatic, just cautious. She doesn't want to be the cause of anyone's pain, as much as she also doesn't want to be hurt. I believe she trusts me, but to "trust" and to "know" are entirely different, and she is getting to KNOW me, now. Did we jump into this rather quickly? Absolutely. It's definitely making for a rough start as we charter a course already having taken to the water. I expect storms along the way. If this needs to end for anyone's sake, hers, mine, my wife's, I will be the adult and end it.

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anisotrophic

Huh. I'd be fine with talking to a lover & assuring them that I'm OK with an open relationship; I mean, this a tested scenario: I have been fine when this occurred. But... yeah, wasn't remotely DADT.

And... I'd probably be uncomfortable having a relationship with someone claiming DADT. Even if true, it raises other concerns, what is going on with the primary partner. @Memento1's excerpt seems an apt summary. It might also just be alienating to me, since it's really contrary to my personal pattern.

Maybe you should be considering counseling, as previously wondered about?

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Sinking_In

@anisotrophic Agreed. I think I should make the counseling appointment, even if just for myself, but I would also like my wife and my lover to be a part of it (at different times, of course, but together would be nice, too, if viable).

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Traveler40
On 12/13/2019 at 1:04 PM, Sinking_In said:

She does tend to overthink things, so I don't believe she was being dramatic, just cautious.

That’s fair. Again, insecurity is more workable than lack of trust as I mentioned.  
 

To clarify my first comment from earlier: I wouldn’t be in a DADT either, but given the stance your wife has taken, I assume she’d not like to be used to placate the lover which could be totally wrong. 
 

Anyhow, I’m glad your lover’s in a better place.  I tend to take the tough love stance as I can’t stand stand emotional games and try not to play them.  If it’s ongoing, perhaps reassess, but therapy may help you all wade through this new normal of sorts for now.

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Whore*of*Mensa

Are you sure that both/either of these women (your wife and your lover) were aware of what they were getting into?

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Sinking_In

NONE of us really knew what we were getting into. It's not like we're all raised in polyamorous family structures. The only thing we're all aware of is that mine is an open marriage, and everyone involved is/ was aware of that fact before any contact or anything physical took place.

That said, I'm aware dynamics can change and feelings are involved. One can prepare expensively for anything, but sometimes life experience is an entirely different matter, full of unforeseen challenges and unexpected feelings and reactions.

 

Minor update:

I've had my doubts of whether this will continue, but I'm not thinking too much into it. I'm allowing breathing room for everyone, and I also have to focus on much of my own life. The holidays are just so incredibly stressful, even when the home life is going well, which it is, for the most part. I'm hoping that once the holidays are over, things will feel less...rushed.

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Whore*of*Mensa

@Sinking_In I think the Xmas period can be useful for a pause and a chance to reflect and maybe make a fresh start.

 

Although I don’t have much going on, no young kids any more...I hope it isn’t too stressful and that everyone does get some time and space  to reflect 

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Traveler40
3 hours ago, More*of*Wenceslas said:

 

@Sinking_In I think the Xmas period can be useful for a pause and a chance to reflect and maybe make a fresh start

 

I’m from a different camp having been where you are - don’t make any decisions over the holidays and try to keep perspective. Every year we struggle at the holidays given it is such an inward facing time of year. It is harder to keep up with those on the “outside” in either direction.  
 

Just relax, make sure your lover knows she’s important via the little things and move through it.  Perhaps don’t think too much or make any decisions, which you seem to already realize.

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Whore*of*Mensa

@Traveler40 please don't quote me, I don't want to participate in this conversation. 

 

We have a different definition of what struggle is I think. I don't think being surrounded by family and a spouse who supports and helps with the children (that you chose to have together) is a struggle. I can't relate. Not at all. It's best you talk to people who are similarly privileged rather than someone in my situation. 

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Traveler40

@More*of*Wenceslas my comments were aimed at @Sinking_In and were in direct opposition to what you had stated, thus I quoted you.  
 

I apologize that wasn’t clear.  In effect, I was giving an alternate viewpoint to your own.

 

Edit: Furthermore, I don’t understand your point. Having a family isn’t a struggle? ANY family structure is a struggle.  Sure, they are different, but.....what?  This is a public space in a public forum within a subforum that I both identify with and contribute to. I’m not sure what the issues are, but I assure you I don’t seek to exacerbate them.  ✌️

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Whore*of*Mensa

I guess my viewpoint was more in sympathy with the asexual partner, as that's where I can most relate. 

 

I can understand that you would choose to have children with an asexual partner, even knowing that there were sexual problems beforehand (and maybe not being aware that these are only going to get worse after children). I can understand how these problems would then lead to choosing polyamory (although I feel that from the ace point of view it might be better to know about this before having children as it's so much harder to leave after, if you find that polyamory isn't for you) - but I get that life happens. But then also saying it's a struggle to spend Christmas with your original partner and kids...for a single parent who struggles at Christmas (as so many who aren't able to stay in their relationships do) it may have hit a nerve to hear you say that it's hard to have to spend a week with your spouse and kids. 

 

I'm trying to keep out of this one, as - like I said - I don't relate very much, and it's not my business. I was kind of throwing platitudes whilst edging out of the door...Trying to keep the good will because I know everyone has their own issues...But that's an explanation of why the comment quoting me seemed like someone much more privileged (loved and supported by 2 people as opposed to none) complaining about something I'd love to have. 

 

 

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Traveler40

I hear what you’re saying and see there’s both misunderstanding and confusion.


To clarify:

1. I was with my husband for almost 15 years before I found out about asexuality.  Sure, I struggled through it practically, but never knew what the problem was actually. I try not to regret; It’s a waste of time and can’t accurately capture the realities of decisions made ages ago.
 

2. All Ace’s aren’t the same.  My husband certainly may not feel as you may.

 

3. I have never said it’s tough to spend a week with my spouse or children. That’s so totally foreign to me and flat out false that I can’t understand where you came up with that. To say this is pure fiction and frankly a lie.  Please point me to where you claim I said this.  
 

Perhaps you have me confused with someone else? 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

Apologies to @Sinking_In - this has clearly been derailed so far off topic and reality that it’s no longer recognizable. Back to you and the original point: May you get through the holidays with balance all around. It’s not simple, but do what you can and try not to stress out too much.

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Sinking_In

@Traveler40 No worries. I take everything with a grain of salt.

I enjoy your input, because I can relate well to you. We have traveled much of the same road, from what I've gathered, and since you're up ahead and have already seen some of the bumps in the road I'm on, I value your input. I also don't mind being questioned, because it gets me to either reaffirm or reassess my position. I see that as a positive thing. Now, if I'm badgered, that's a different matter, entirely ;)  

I was supposed to see my lover tonight, but it didn't pan out. It would have been a welcomed stress relief, but I can't depend on someone else for that. I'm taking a step back right now, looking forward to some of the festivities we have planned as a family, and I'll reassess (or reaffirm) my long term goals in all of this.

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Sinking_In

It's good I've been taking a step back. It's probably not looking good that things with my lover will continue. I have no hard feelings, and wish her the best (and always have, really). I've clearly stated my feelings, and that's all I can really do. She is now taking time to contemplate things. I hate to say it, but I've parted ways with many people throughout a life of many connections, and this feels like just another one of those partings. We shall see. Holidays tend to make and break relationships. That said, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone! I hope I have positive updates in the near future, but there will be updates, nonetheless.

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