Birlow17 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I don’t understand love sometimes. Or at least today’s depiction of love. People don’t really know what true love is, and because of what I’m seeing these days I’m beginning to think neither do I. I love romantic movies and understand love when I watch movies like the best of me or about time etc. I’m aro ace so I can’t feel that way about others but I definitely understand it. But these days I’m starting to lose that understanding I thought I had about love. All couples do is have sex. Whenever I hear my friends talk about their SO it’s always about sex and I get it people like sex and it’s pleasures but I don’t get why it’s so popular to talk about? I don’t get why there’s sex innuendos in movies or songs. If you really imagine two people getting naked with each other it doesn’t seem much. It’s so glorified and talked about but to me it’s not that important to a relationship. In shows I watch all couples do is have sex 24/7 it’s like man get a hobby or go out. Why does it revolve around sex?? In the movies relationships are focused around emotional intimacy. Its those little moments that build so much. Like when your significant other watches you without your awareness, and admire you secretly to themselves. Or when your first instinct before thinking is to protect or defend someone’s honour. Or when someone hurts just because you’re hurt. I feel so much intimacy and vulnerability in those little things and facial expressions and I just don’t see people emphasizing those in today’s relationships. It’s all about sex and feels more like lust and sexual attraction than actual pure love to me. Sometimes I see a couple and I remove the physical attractiveness compartment from both and imagine that if I were to take away their looks, would there still be something left? Or would the relationship crumble because it wasn’t steady and authentic to begin with. Is it not love if it’s only conditional? Some people act like they would do anything for their SO and keep their secrets etc. But the moment they break up they hate that person (majority of people) trash talk them etc. I just don’t understand how you can forget that you loved someone. It seems to be only conditional and selfish. thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
crazy ace Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I feel that all love is conditional. You can't love someone for no reason, I don't think. I could be wrong Link to post Share on other sites
Birlow17 Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, crazy ace said: I feel that all love is conditional. You can't love someone for no reason, I don't think. I could be wrong That’s what I think. But if that’s true then it’s kind of sad isn’t it. It makes me think if love is only conditional then is it even real? Link to post Share on other sites
RoseGoesToYale Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Birlow17 said: That’s what I think. But if that’s true then it’s kind of sad isn’t it. It makes me think if love is only conditional then is it even real? I think it's conditionality isn't necessarily a bad thing. In all loving relationships there are conditions, even if those conditions are only mutual trust and respect. Like they say parent's love for their children is unconditional... but it really isn't. They love their children based on the condition that the child will grow up, love and respect them back. This doesn't always happen, especially in abusive households. And it's not a contract, either. If one party breaks a condition, the love doesn't all automatically cease and the relationship dissolved. It just means the love has to be renegotiated, whether that's modifying the conditions, trying to re-establish them, apologizing, whatever. Human relationships are dynamic and what drives them is ever-changing. And without those conditions, no one would ever get their needs met. Link to post Share on other sites
SithLord Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I think you're being reductionist in terms of love and are painting couples with a wide brush. For me, I see couples holding hands and whispering to one another, sharing thoughts and feelings, improving one another through various means and methods, sharing themselves fully with that other person. Successful relationships, anyway. When watching my friends in doomed relationships I see lack of communication, lack of true understanding of the other's thoughts or feelings, priority for the self over for the other, etc. Sex isn't the end all be all, even for my sexual friends who couldn't do without it, they just adjust to the other person't desires if it's within reason. Love is certainly conditional. If my bf went bald, it's whatever. If he went blind, all the more reason to get more dogs. If he suddenly started supporting Trump, hold on there we're going to have a problem. Everyone has different limits, and maybe I wouldn't fall out of love with him immediately, but while love can shift as a person changes over time, it doesn't always. Link to post Share on other sites
Alawyn-Aebt Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 EDIT: I was a couple seconds off in responding compared to the two posts above, they are better at elaborating the same point. I am only keeping this since it makes more sense than seeing a blank post. 18 minutes ago, Birlow17 said: That’s what I think. But if that’s true then it’s kind of sad isn’t it. It makes me think if love is only conditional then is it even real? Just because something is conditional does not mean it doesn't exist. Certainly the pop culture depictions of love would be wrong, but those are usually wrong anyways before one even starts arguing over the conditionality love. I find all love to be based on at least some conditions, it seems like the only rational explanation. I love my parents, but I have reasons to love them, if I had no such reasons I wouldn't love them. As I am sitting here in my dorm I have no reason to love my roommate, so I do not love him. Just like friendship: if I have no reason to be a friend with you I will not be a friend with you. End of story. Only if I have a reason to be a friend with you will I even attempt to be a friend with you. Link to post Share on other sites
kumiko_itoe Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 True that the meaning of true love is all wrong nowadays. But I think it takes a matured mind to understand and feel it. I think the example my husband gave me might be the best fit [I'm demi-ace while he is full fledged sexual]. I saw pictures of his ex-wife and the previous women in his life (he also told me about them) and I told him that I am nowhere near any of them in looks, figure or sensuality - - especially not the sex part so why me? I really feel like I look like Gollum while they are like Arwen. Comparatively His answer was that when he was young, he was attracted to all of them for looks and sex, thinking that strong feeling was love. However, once he got to a certain age, he realised that it was just sexual attraction and not love. With me however, although he wanted to marry me the moment he saw me (he says it was love at first sight), he loves me for my character and my mind which constantly keeps him on his toes and is amusing to him. He said that the fact he doesn't really mind when I don't want sex for months at a time is proof that the love is real (eventhough he doesn't believe there is such a thing as asexuality). Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 33 minutes ago, Birlow17 said: All couples do is have sex. That's plain wrong. You probably shouldn't base your opinion on this on fiction (such as movies). Link to post Share on other sites
Birlow17 Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said: I think it's conditionality isn't necessarily a bad thing. In all loving relationships there are conditions, even if those conditions are only mutual trust and respect. Like they say parent's love for their children is unconditional... but it really isn't. They love their children based on the condition that the child will grow up, love and respect them back. This doesn't always happen, especially in abusive households. And it's not a contract, either. If one party breaks a condition, the love doesn't all automatically cease and the relationship dissolved. It just means the love has to be renegotiated, whether that's modifying the conditions, trying to re-establish them, apologizing, whatever. Human relationships are dynamic and what drives them is ever-changing. And without those conditions, no one would ever get their needs met. It’s weird when it comes to family. Because even if my sibling hated me I would still underline love them and wouldn’t want to hurt them. Like if I were to really hate my sibling I would still love them. So in that sense it feels maybe relationship love is conditional but maybe others are unconditional? Link to post Share on other sites
kumiko_itoe Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Homer said: That's plain wrong. You probably shouldn't base your opinion on this on fiction (such as movies). Perhaps Bilow17 is talking about people around him/her? I used to think the same way too as did my mom (who is also ace. But she is aromantic ace) until we found out about AVEN in the papers Link to post Share on other sites
SithLord Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Birlow17 said: It’s weird when it comes to family. Because even if my sibling hated me I would still underline love them and wouldn’t want to hurt them. Like if I were to really hate my sibling I would still love them. So in that sense it feels maybe relationship love is conditional but maybe others are unconditional? If my mom hated me tomorrow, I'd still love her. If she expressed that hatred on the people I love, saying horrible things about me, trying to turn them against me, etc. Then I'd probably stop loving her. She's my mom, yes, and I love her, but if she stopped loving me and burned that bridge and pissed in the ashes, I would stop loving her. I would love what used to be my mother, not the woman she became. Link to post Share on other sites
Disco_Tilly Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Hi, @Birlow17 I think you are right about how love is portrayed in popular culture. There is definitely an unbalanced sense of importance placed on sex and aesthetic attraction. I feel like that has had a negative influence on a lot of people because it establishes unrealistic expectations for romantic (and sexual) relationships. I do; however, think that unconditional love does exist. *see edit below* I think it can exist between family members, friends, and even romantic partners. Unfortunately, I think it is less common between friends and romantic partners than family. When I think of unconditional love in families, I think of parents and children. Even some parents of people who have committed atrocious crimes love and support them. I think a big difference here is that achieving unconditional love without that inherent biological connection (and even with it) is often difficult and painful. It requires time to get to know someone through ups and downs. It requires making a decision over and over to keep loving that person even when they hurt you or push you away or do something terrible. It also requires balance and reciprocation. Lastly, I think one of the biggest challenges to achieving "true" or unconditional love is experiencing it in the real world when it is modeled by the people around you. People who are exposed to long-term healthy relationships in childhood - be it their parents, family members, or other people close to them - are more likely to be able to establish relationships like that in their own lives (if they want that, of course). I can't quote specific research on that, but I am confident there is a strong connection. That is not to say that a person can't learn how to love unconditionally (if they want to, with any kind of relationship not just romantic) without having that history of exposure, but it might be more difficult because all they have to go off of is what is in the broader culture around them, which we already agree is inaccurate and often toxic. When it comes to sex - since so many cultures discourage openly discussing sex and sexual attraction with children and young people, they often end up developing an unhealthy and inaccurate idea of what sex is supposed to be like and how important it should be in a relationship because they again default to what they learn through popular culture. When that is coupled with the fact that "sex sells" in media, we get the sex-saturated, miseducated, misguided, unfortunate culture we find ourselves in now. Unfortunately, this is the culture many of us live in. It could be different if educating and exposing young people to healthy relationships of all kinds (including sexual and asexual) were culturally accepted. All of this is just my opinion and I know that others may disagree or feel differently! Edit: After reading some other responses, I am going to disagree with myself in a way. I do think that healthy and "true" love will always have conditions like respect and trust. But, I think that sometimes love can still persist even when the hardest relationship ending boundaries have to be established. Like if a parent is mistreated by their child and they have done horrible things to them, they might not be able to maintain a relationship, but they could possibly still love them. This might be my optimism speaking, I don't know. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 It's quite clear all couples do is NOT have sex; AVEN is as much proof as you can get that there is far more to romance than sex (even if it is important to 99% of the population). I also don't think love should ever be unconditional. Unconditional love gets someone hurt and there must always be a boundary somewhere, even between kids and parents. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Anthracite_Impreza said: Unconditional love gets someone hurt and there must always be a boundary somewhere, even between kids and parents. Unconditional love is garbage. Why would anyone want to be loved unconditionally? Makes me feel crappy. I'm more like... you can need me to be decent, I'll need you to be decent and together, we may actually have something. I have a lot of very strong feelings on the subject of unconditional love. 😑 Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Jade Cross Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Sorry, I cant resist the urge to post this every time the question "what is love?" comes up. Dont really have a sophisticated answer to add much aside from the song. The older Ive gotten, the more frequent Ive come to the conclusion that people really dont know what they're talking about and many ideas are just half glimpsed and half assed for that matter when exposing them forward to the point where they lose purpose. (Refering to popular opinion) Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 "Unconditional love" is a myth in my book. There is no such thing. Link to post Share on other sites
twetzel59 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 To me anytime someone is loved unconditionally, there are two components: an underlying biological attachment, and a higher-level conscious commitment. If my parent did something atrocious, I would decide to abandon the conscious part, but the underlying care for a family member would still be there. Not sure about romantic partners, I never had one. Still, I can add that I've never really fallen out of love with the people I've come to admire, even as we've been separated by distance and time. The feelings dampen a bit with time, but in all honesty, I still love people I've fallen in love with almost four years ago and haven't seen much since. I don't get over it, I guess. But in many ways, I like that about myself; I feel like it takes a grand person to make me cross the line from friends into something special. And once someone is on that side of the line, they're special to me forever. I'll bet when I die I'll have a small group of less than 10 super-special queerplatonic friends over my entire lifespan. I've read that's an aspie thing, though (Asperger's here). Link to post Share on other sites
kumiko_itoe Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Unconditional love... I believe I feel that way towards my parents, my children, my cats, my ex-boyfriend who is asexual (now my bestfriend) and also my husband. I love all of them. Its just different type of love. There have been many occurrences where all of them have disappointed me. I felt hurt yes but I could never bring myself to hate or cut any of them off. Every I still wish the very best for all of them and genuinely still try to understand and try to be there for them. Yes I have my boundaries and things that are just too much for me. When that happens, I just walk away to cool off. I do have a temper but it doesn't mean my heart stops loving. My ex-boyfriend revealed somethings that caused all the people in his life to avoid him (including his own mother). But I still care enough to be around and to give him a shoulder to cry on (when our relationship didn't work out, we both left it as adults. We outgrew each other when we grew up. The feelings are still there but we could no longer imagine living our entire lives with each other as partners. So we became bestfriends instead). Everyone has different definitions of things... but mine is when the love is outside the boundaries. Its when trust doesn't matter. Its a feeling that doesn't have anything to do with the conscious mind and it cannot be controlled. It is just what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Firefly8 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 There is no such thing as unconditional love and no one should want it if there were. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Homer said: "Unconditional love" is a myth in my book. There is no such thing. I do have it for my kids. It wouldn't matter what they did, I couldn't stop loving them because it's like.. a maternal instinct? Wouldn't people feel something similar to that for pets as well? Because it's not their fault if they make a mess or do something wrong, it's your job to to try to teach them and care for them etc and your love for an animal or child can't really be.. thwarted.. by any external circumstances or events. But that's a different kind of love than romantic love of course. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, CBC said: Also have you noticed that even people who are objectively quite unattractive very often end up in relationships? Didn't you get the memo? Only very hot people (models, actors etc) ever get into relationships! Normal people with acne or weight issues or bad teeth or who are balding or who have facial moles or whatever never have relationships. It's all about the looks baby!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Birlow17 said: Sometimes I see a couple and I remove the physical attractiveness compartment from both and imagine that if I were to take away their looks, would there still be something left? Shit what do we say to blind people 😂 16 minutes ago, CBC said: As for the unconditional thing... yeah, I don't get that. Makes zero sense. Loving someone despite the fact that they're struggling with depression or lost their job or put on 50 lbs or accidentally set the garage on fire when they were doing home renovations? Sure. Loving them even though they beat you or verbally abuse you every day, cheated on you a dozen times simply because they can't keep their dick in their pants, or committed a mass shooting? Why? Yeah that is a problem of 'love'. And the people want forgiveness and them begging for it means they truly love you. 32 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: Didn't you get the memo? Only very hot people (models, actors etc) ever get into relationships! Normal people with acne or weight issues or bad teeth or who are balding or who have facial moles or whatever never have relationships. It's all about the looks baby!!!! Damn it. Gonna have to become a cat lady or something cause I am gonna be single forever. Tsk Tsk not even Tinder would accept me! Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I don't think there's any human emotion that's unconditional -- certainly not love. You love someone for who they are. Link to post Share on other sites
kumiko_itoe Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: Didn't you get the memo? Only very hot people (models, actors etc) ever get into relationships! Normal people with acne or weight issues or bad teeth or who are balding or who have facial moles or whatever never have relationships. It's all about the looks baby!!!! I beg to differ. Generally speaking yes. But when I first met my husband, I had a horrid case of acne where my entire face was flared up. He is sexual but was still attracted. My husband is now balding and from having 4pac body, 7 years later has put on 50 pounds and is balding but my feelings haven't changed. I have a friend who was seriously obese and just average looking with facial moles but extremely charming (no he wasn't filthy rich). He was sleeping and having "serious" relationships with over 20 women from the same dance school. They were all madly in love with him but of course once they realised he was cheating on all of them, they dropped the relationship (though he finally married one of them). It is very rare but it does happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 23 hours ago, kumiko_itoe said: I really feel like I look like Gollum while they are like Arwen If that's you in your profile you already look like Arwen (beauty-wise) so I can't imagine what those exes would have looked like, haha. Link to post Share on other sites
kumiko_itoe Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 9/6/2019 at 9:01 AM, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: If that's you in your profile you already look like Arwen (beauty-wise) so I can't imagine what those exes would have looked like, haha. LOL!! Yes that is me and thank you for the compliment. Though cameras, angles and lighting do wonders. His ex-wife looks like a barbie doll (literally) with blonde hair, amazingly huge beautiful blue eyes that look like the sky is contained in them. Her figure is 38/22/36!! Totally flawless as well. The rest, my hubby has dated almost every single ethnicity--- each of them totally perfect physically - PERFECT SYMMETRY!! o_o Link to post Share on other sites
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