A question for allosexuals

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

 

Yeah I need that too, I need to desire them and for them to desire me too. But, I want that without also wanting to self-destruct if they don't reply to my message after 4 minutes, which is what seems to happen to me when I have the romantic feels Y_Y

 

(is my writing really tiny? I'm on my phone and it seems to be really tiny)

It's certainly smaller, yes. Started last page. 

 

And yeahhhh... not to speak for ceebs, but we're both emotionally overreactive and are learning to knock it the fuck off. I haven't sent a "I wish I was fucking dead" text in a couple months now!! It's an ongoing process. 😂

 

But I know exactly what you're talking about. It's the reason I often end up in relationships with people I don't love intensely... there's basically no way for me to not fuck it up when I care too much due to the crazies that come out. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, neverlove said:

You stated that you have BPD, have you tried cognitive therapy? Like DBT? A guy I met said it helps with that (but maybe not that much because we met in a mental hospital).

I'm the kind of person who feels that if I can't fix it myself then I'd rather it just stay broken than try to get some help fixing it 😛 If that means I have to stay single and celibate for the rest of my life then so be it, but I honestly think I'm making some steps forward, even if only slowly. It helps that all my 'romantic involvement' has been solely with fictional characters for like 2 years now, they tend to not stress me out as much as meat people, haha.

 

4 minutes ago, skullery said:

It's certainly smaller, yes. Started last page. 

 It seems to be the purple, it's just so much easier for me to write with than the black when possible, but not when it's this tiny!!!

 

5 minutes ago, skullery said:

I haven't sent a "I wish I was fucking dead" text in a couple months now!!

That's good to hear, I'm glad you two are getting along so well

 

...Can't Benedict Cumberbatch just be my 'special friend', is that too much to ask?? 

 

 ...oh yeah, he's married Y_Y

[neverlove]

15 minutes ago, skullery said:

It's the reason I often end up in relationships with people I don't love intensely... that's basically no way for me to not fuck it up when I care too much due to the crazies that come out. 

Do you still get that metaphysical connection despite even in the absence of that intense emotional response?

 

7 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

I'm the kind of person who feels that if I can't fix it myself then I'd rather it just stay broken than try to get some help fixing it 😛 If that means I have to stay single and celibate for the rest of my life then so be it, but I honestly think I'm making some steps forward, even if only slowly

That's fine, but you might still look up DBT, you don't have to see anyone for it, it's just interesting. Besides, you sort of can fix things. It's weird how much of our thoughts can be changed like physical habits. I don't get as depressed as I used to because a therapist helped me figure some stuff out...well, I just think it's interesting 😋

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

That's good to hear, I'm glad you two are getting along so well

 

...Can't Benedict Cumberbatch just be my 'special friend', is that too much to ask?? 

Lol well, I am who I am. 😂 (and who i am is a bit of a nightmare) 

 

Ok so can you explain the Cumberbatch thing? I find him, like, actively unattractive. I feel like I'm missing something. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, neverlove said:

Do you still get that metaphysical connection despite even in the absence of that intense emotional response?

No, they're interconnected... It'll come and go but if it's not connecting to anything... if it's not being mirrored back... it fades. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CBC said:

Seconded. He's... funny-looking.

YES! 

[neverlove]

2 minutes ago, CBC said:

Seconded. He's... funny-looking

I think the fan consensus is that he looks like an otter. I also think people think his charm and talent trump his looks. Ever seen a dog that's so ugly it's cute?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, neverlove said:

I think the fan consensus is that he looks like an otter. I also think people think his charm and talent trump his looks. Ever seen a dog that's so ugly it's cute?

Lol I've nothing against being into uggos... I really kinda like Clea Duvall despite her obvious hideousness... but like, I hear a lot of people say that he's gorgeous. That's the part I don't get. 😂

[neverlove]

1 minute ago, CBC said:

Hrmm. Most otters I've seen are pretty adorable though.  

In a distinctly non-sexual way though right? 

 

1 minute ago, skullery said:

I hear a lot of people say that he's gorgeous.

Love is blind.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

2 hours ago, CBC said:

I need my partner to desire me and I need to feel sexual desire for them.

Yeah I need that too, I need to desire them and for them to desire me too. 

What if someone does not desire the other  in a sexual(not just sex also being unable to be close)  way? I've heard this ... But when I think of my past relationship I did not desire her in this way... Do you think that without desire the relationship (with a sexual person) might fail? 

[neverlove]

 

2 minutes ago, CBC said:

Yeah um, I do not have a sexual thing for otters.

😂

[Sally]

Cumberbatch is not handsome but he's not ugly.  (He actually looks best when his hair is curly around his face, as in Sherlock, than slicked back as in other roles.)  His charm far outweighs his looks, and he actually has looks that are different every second because he's so...charming and magnetic and kinetic and, uh, VIVID!   My late partner was gorgeous -- black hair also, curly, rather long, dark eyes, kinetic, charming, magnetic.   Sigh.  But OP, what you seemingly want is a friend-with-benefits, but were you to actually experience it, you might not want it.   And forget what your brother says.  

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, CBC said:

So you're saying they've no interest in either sexual or non-sexual closeness? That wouldn't work for me, no. And just one without the other wouldn't work, either. Without the sex, there's a vital aspect of very intimate connection missing for me. And without non-sexual touch, I'd feel rather used and uncomfortable and resentful if they just wanted to bang me.

No sex or closeness ...  No banging of any sort 😊 a close friend of mine told me to stay away from relationship because I was not sure if I could ever have sex... I did not tell him that feeling close to someone also makes me uncomfortable...  When I was in my 20s I was close to a friend a male  and I learned that I could not be comfortable (being it sexually or touching of any sort) with others. 

[neverlove]

6 minutes ago, Sally said:

what you seemingly want is a friend-with-benefits, but were you to actually experience it, you might not want it.   And forget what your brother says.

What my brother says amuses me, I would never let what he says bother me. 

 

To be clear, I do not want a casual relationship. I want to be with someone I care deeply about, I just don't think that would involve attraction.

[Guest]

Everyone is different and everyone experiences these things differently... I don't see anything wrong whatsoever with a friend's with benefits for life scenario. I would worry that the friends-with-benefits feeling won't last forever for both people... the likelihood being that someone falls in love, or without the attraction, the sex just gets too icky. 

 

But you know what... those are the same risks of a romantic relationship, so, nothing ventured nothing gained. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, CBC said:

Maybe... if his hair could completely cover his face? 😂

Like Sia, but for practical reasons instead of a socio-political statement? 

[neverlove]

5 minutes ago, skullery said:

Like Sia, but for practical reasons instead of a socio-political statement? 

voila

[Guest]

You're my hero. 🙏

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Sir_The_Last said:

Do you think that without desire the relationship (with a sexual person) might fail?

I'm not very sexual (well, it's complicated. Haven't had sex in 8 years now an am very happy to go without it, and get turned off the moment someone expects sex from me in a relationship and if they're unhappy without sex, just nope. Buuuuuut.. that doesn't mean I don't love and desire some sexual things in the right circumstances!)

 

sooooo,  for me anyway... a relationship would fail if the other person couldn't desire me sexually, and if I couldn't desire them sexually. I still need them to actively want and enjoy whatever it is I want and enjoy, to be fed by my desire in a way. I need them to get off most on me wanting them, but to also want me in return. It's complicated,

 

For these reasons, myself and the vast majority of other sexual people could not remain happy in a relationship with an ace. We still want to be wanted, even when we're not that sexual! We still love and crave mutual desire.

 

And other forms of physical intimacy are just as (if not MORE) important for many of us than sex on its own is!

[Sally]

33 minutes ago, neverlove said:

To be clear, I do not want a casual relationship. I want to be with someone I care deeply about, I just don't think that would involve attraction.

Attraction?  Do you mean you would want to have sex with them but not be physically attracted to having sex with them?  What does that mean, IRL?

[NicoleHolmes]

4 hours ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

To be honest, I'm actually done with 'romance', as I feel it's been pretty destructive for me in the past. By romance I mean that hardcore emotional ache you get inside that makes you feel a bit crazy and like the world is spinning. But at the same time, I really want a balanced, wholesome, 'best-friend' type relationship. Almost like really close siblings, but...you know.. with some sexy stuff, and kink, included... and a LOT of physical (but non-sexual) intimacy etc so not like siblings at all 😛 But you get what I mean? I want total monogamy, and to know we're bound together forever as introvert loners who don't really relate to most other people, but.. I don't know. Without the jealousy and worry and crying etc that seems to come with romance.

 

I admit, I was diagnosed with BPD many years ago.. and I'm not sure if that's why I'm afraid of the 'romance' word. To me, romance comes with so much destruction. Buuut.. best friends who are also very intimate with each other, and monogamous, and have a very deep emotional bond... That sounds awesome (even if to others it probably just sounds like romance, haha)

 

....Does any of that make sense?

I feel the same way! (I don't have BPD, if that is relevant information.) I would love to have a committed best friend and lover. It would be an exclusive relationship in the sense that neither of us would get romantically or sexually involved with anyone else. But it would not follow the "norms" of any traditional relationship I've seen. And there would be less drama and more independence. 

[neverlove]

8 minutes ago, Sally said:

Attraction?  Do you mean you would want to have sex with them but not be physically attracted to having sex with them?  What does that mean, IRL?

Hypothetically, I could sleep with any man as I have no particular preference, irl, I only enjoy being touched by my family and my best friend. If my best friend was a man I'd propose tomorrow. That's basically all I've got. As it is, I could spend the rest of my life with my best friend and only occasionally miss the absence of sex. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, skullery said:

Ok so can you explain the Cumberbatch thing? I find him, like, actively unattractive.

I know what you mean!  

 

1 hour ago, CBC said:

He's... funny-looking.

Agreed!

 

1 hour ago, skullery said:

but like, I hear a lot of people say that he's gorgeous. That's the part I don't get. 😂

Been there!

 

1 hour ago, neverlove said:

Love is blind.

I think I like him because I don't love him, but I'll get to that in a moment!

 

1 hour ago, CBC said:

Maybe... if his hair could completely cover his face? 😂

Hairy or bald, I'd still do him 

 

1 hour ago, neverlove said:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

😂

 

1 hour ago, skullery said:

I feel like I'm missing something. 

 

(This will seem off-topic but it's on topic I swear! I actually had a bit of an epiphany while writing this!)

 

 Yes I agree, he's funny-looking  So many women seem to be gaga for him talking like he's some sex god or whatever, and I was actively confused by that for a loooong time (we are talking years here). I remember watching his older stuff and looking at him REALLY hard trying to work out what the heck women see in him. I've always thought he's a great actor, and he's always been in movies and TV shows that I've really enjoyed (Stuart: A Life Backwards was one of my fave movies long before I got a 'thing' for Cumberbatch).. but yeah I just remember looking at his nose and his chin and his eyes especially and being like 'wtf? This is actually a really strange-looking man' haha. He's definitely not my 'type', to say the least.

 

But then,  I don't know. I watched Sherlock, got obsessed with Sherlock, and then Cumberbatch changed inside me, my internal reaction to him changed (as opposed to the way I see him changing). He's still funny-looking to me, but I like..  want him, you know? And I really like him and admire him and respect him. And he's so beautiful to me now despite also being funny-looking to me, and still not being my 'type'.. it's confusing. Even in Brexit where he's frikken mostly bald and looks homeless sometimes I still want him :p I'd frikken marry him just like that lol, balding and scruffy and homeless-looking.. He'd never be allowed out of the bedroom! I'll just leave it at that so as to keep it clean :p

 

But to keep this on topic, I don't think I feel romantic love for him at all. Not the kind I've felt in the past anyway. I just want him. And I respect him. And I think he's really funny and silly and smart and seems... relatable? And that's what I want. I want to feel like what I feel for him, but with a real (and unmarried, lol) person, someone I can actually have, you know?..Without the obsession of being maddeningly, sickeningly in love :c 

 

1 hour ago, neverlove said:

Love is blind.

 

Here's the epiphany I had while writing this:

 

I realise now that why I want to avoid 'romance-feels' is because romantic love (the crazy, obsessive kind anyway) fades... and then you're left with nothing and I'm so scared of that happening again :c I want to go into something without that obsession blinding me. I want to want someone the way they are, for who they are, without being blinded by the frikken acid-trip of being obsessively in love with someone: it literally changes your perception of their looks and their behaviour and their personality and everything!! That shit makes them seem perfect when they're not. And when that fades and you see them for what they really are...and you're over them and can't work out what the hell you saw in them to begin with 😕 I want to be able to see them as they are; funny nose.. weird eyes... balding... overweight.. shit dress sense, whatever. And to still know that they're who I want and who I respect and who I want to give my support to and who I want to wake up with every morning, forever.

 

I want to see their imperfection but want them anyway, not want them because I can't see their imperfection.

 

Romantic love (the way I've always felt it) is scary because it makes me blind and I don't want to be blindly in love again; it makes me insane and leaves me hurt and alone in the end because I fell in love with an idea of a person and not an actual person :c

 

 

 

 

 

 

[neverlove]

8 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

I want to go into something without that obsession blinding me. I want to want someone the way they are, for who they are, without being blinded by the frikken acid-trip of being obsessively in love with someone: it literally changes your perception of their looks and their behaviour and their personality and everything!! That shit makes them seem perfect when they're not. And when that fades and you see them for what they really are, you're over them and can't work out what the hell you saw in them to begin with

This is basically my opinion as well. I don't see romantic love working out for people, but everyone told me I'd feel it and it would be life changing and I'd see how truly wonderful it is...well, that hasn't happened yet, I never wanted it to begin with and I'm starting to think I don't need to worry about it anymore. However, it seems to be really important to people. Some completely abandon previous relationships for it, give up their families, the lives as they know them and the light at the end of the tunnel is a screwed up human being...that shit is scary! I don't want to be anyone's Juliet, and I really just want someone to explain to me why is this ephemeral desire so vitally important to a relationship??! I just want to love people as people and maybe sleep with one of them!

[Anthracite_Impreza]

7 hours ago, neverlove said:

I've always pretty much defined romantic love as a nice way of saying lust (no offense intended to anyone) and that love is basically love no matter what, just that there are some people you choose to have sex with

Well, romantic aces exist, so no that's not what defines romance. It's just different, not better or worse. Some people get more obsessive than others, some like flowers, some prefer making a washing up rota. It is a lovely feeling, but so is hanging out with the buds, so is alone time, so is fulfilling work... I wouldn't be happy without my romantic partner, but he is not my sole source of happiness and comfort (and frankly I find that level of co-dependence unhealthy).

[anisotrophic]

6 hours ago, neverlove said:

have you tried cognitive therapy? Like DBT?

DBT helped me where CBT never did with enduring these negative emotions, which I would also get. It didn't get the emotion to go away, it trained me to ignore it.

 

With T they seem to be going away. The unhappy emotions aren't sharp. Things are more dull. maybe this is good for me. Calmer.

 

Maybe it's bad. I think it's dulling a reflexive, often pathologically painful, empathy/worry for others. Maybe I'll be more prone to hurting others, less to hurting myself. That's not a good thought.

 

I really thought these differences were socialization, socially constructed.

 

I... can only report what it's like.

 

I can report I didn't really believe transfolk that reported things like "E made all my emotions real, like colors were more vivid, I started crying for no reason" and "I can barely squeeze out a couple tears on T. It's the one big downside, I miss the catharsis."

 

I thought it was in their head. I think I was wrong. I'm humbled, worried about needing to learn to notice/feel emotions -- instead of enduring/ignoring them.

 

6 hours ago, neverlove said:

you might still look up DBT, you don't have to see anyone for it

I kind of did need someone? the dialectical part seemed to be "arguing with me" which worked really well, and eventually I learned to do it myself internally, but I needed someone challenging me.

[Guest]

Pan, sounds like you're describing limerence ... which can make a person nuts. 

 

I experience limerence at first then it fades. And I am left with a calm romantic love. Its still powerful, just not obsessive crazy. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Serran said:

Pan, sounds like you're describing limerence ... which can make a person nuts. 

 

I experience limerence at first then it fades. And I am left with a calm romantic love. Its still powerful, just not obsessive crazy. 

 WARNING SELF-HARM MAY BE TRIGGERING

 

Yes I think so too. But for me, limerence always seems to come with the romancy feels and that's why I want to try to avoid them to the best of my ability. I know it's common for limerence to come with those feelings for most people, but most people seem to deal with it better than I do even if they go a bit crazy in the process 😕 ..im talking like, actual suicide attempts over someone not replying to a text, smashing a bottle on the middle of town and stabbing myself with it when my ex wouldn't come out of a club (got taken away in a white wagon for that one), obsessive cutting that I just can't stop, even after like an hour, buying cigarettes even though I don't smoke just so I can burn myself with them Y_Y All over a little argument or he's a bit late home from work or didn't reply to a message or whatever 😕 Then of course there's the drinking which is a LOT worse if I'm experiencing those feelings. I just can't stop when feeling that way T_T

 

..I mean, it's dangerous for me to feel those things, and I can't risk it again now that I have kids (and survived the last 3 messes I got myself into on AVEN over the last 5 years. I need to not go there again.)

 

SIGH

 

So yes, while I definitely suffer from limerence, it's so intertwined with those romantic feelings for me that I just don't know how I'd ever separate them. It seems safer to just avoid the whole damn lot :c

 

edit: well, of course it's the BPD more than anything I suppose. 😕

[anisotrophic]

@Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) I have a strong impulse for self harm; usually I freeze up rather than acting out. I agree it's not just limerance. I agree limerance is especially dangerous.

 

The problem with suicidal thoughts and self harm is they break through the natural repulsion. It's easier for you to hurt yourself. Easier to take those actions you shouldn't. That's a dangerous skill to have acquired, and it's likely you'll have that danger for the rest of your life.

 

I mean that from a clinical, epidemiological viewpoint; suicide rates go down when you make it a bit harder - fences on bridges actually work, people don't just find another bridge. You've torn down some fences. It's not a great club to have joined, where "not killing myself" is a secret life skill. You can't get out, not easily, maybe never; you can just deal with the danger.

 

Mostly an aside, but I switched from cutting to hitting myself - I'm so practical, as always 😞 - aiming for pain over permanent damage. I might give myself an assignment like "I need to feel suicidal for at least a week".

 

(I was suicidal a couple nights ago. I didn't say much -- I don't like the manipulative effect this has -- but I guess I touched my neck, he figured it out. He told me it was a mood swing with the T and I snapped out if it. I think on some level I didn't notice I was experiencing the emotions, they were different... colder, still dangerous. T has been strange.)

 

I share these to explain that I do have these experiences.

 

CBT seemed focused on teaching me the the distress is an overreaction. As if I could stop having the reaction. Didn't work.

 

My DBT therapist helped me learn distress tolerance. Don't take actions, endure until it's passed. I think it's a solid recommendation.

[uhtred]

@neverlove I'm not quite following what you want.  Maybe sex just for fun, but not particularly tied to a relationship?

 

There are people who are happy to have sex just for fun - but that doesn't work for many people.  Many people who think it will work end up falling for their sexual partner.   For many people (including  me), sex, romance and love are all tied together.    I'd like to believe I could just have fun-sex with someone, but I know myself well enough that it wouldn't really work for me.  

 

If you are honest about what you want though you will find partners.