neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 TMI alert So I don't experience any particular romantic, sexual, or aesthetic interest for people, but I am interested in sex. I had to really think about whether I was asexual because I am interested in sleeping with men (though I haven't even kissed so far) and if that was possible etc. Ultimately what convinced me was this, if I could take a pill that gave me the same sensations as sex without side effects I wouldn't consider a "romantic" relationship again. So this is my question, how would that feel for you? I'm not really interested in blanket statements as much as I am in taking a poll of how people would feel in committed platonic love relationships with a sexual component. How important are romantic and sexual attraction if you could still be loved and have frequent sex? I feel like if I had a relationship I'd be using someone I loved for sex, and I'm not sure if my conscience would allow that. (feel free to ask personal questions, no holds barred) Everyone is still welcome in the discussion. We are currently trying to define terms and in doing so mention things that may be triggering. Please proceed with caution and an open mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy Alien Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Sexual here. I would not be happy with meaningless sex, personally. I don’t know what a platonic relationship with sex looks like - is that a friends with benefits situation or just a regular relationship? What makes it platonic? Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 Just now, Kimchi Peanut said: Sexual here. I would not be happy with meaningless sex, personally. I don’t know what a platonic relationship with sex looks like - is that a friends with benefits situation or just a regular relationship? What makes it platonic? Someone I love as a friend, but don't have any other attraction towards. Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy Alien Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, neverlove said: Someone I love as a friend, but don't have any other attraction towards. If you love them as a friend and want to have sex with them... I struggle to see how that isn’t romantic. But I’m not someone who could ever have a friend with benefits so perhaps I can’t imagine that. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 I wouldn't call it friends with benefits, because that implies that you are uncommitted and probably involves at least sexual attraction. I'm not really sure...it's hard for me to know what life would be like with romantic and sexual attraction. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 I think it would technically be a romantic relationship, just that I'd probably be considered cold in some aspects. I don't really know. My brother would happily vouch for me not "getting it" and I'm not interested in grand gestures of love or even little notes and flowers. What else is there to romance? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 To be honest, I'm actually done with 'romance', as I feel it's been pretty destructive for me in the past. By romance I mean that hardcore emotional ache you get inside that makes you feel a bit crazy and like the world is spinning. But at the same time, I really want a balanced, wholesome, 'best-friend' type relationship. Almost like really close siblings, but...you know.. with some sexy stuff, and kink, included... and a LOT of physical (but non-sexual) intimacy etc so not like siblings at all 😛 But you get what I mean? I want total monogamy, and to know we're bound together forever as introvert loners who don't really relate to most other people, but.. I don't know. Without the jealousy and worry and crying etc that seems to come with romance. I admit, I was diagnosed with BPD many years ago.. and I'm not sure if that's why I'm afraid of the 'romance' word. To me, romance comes with so much destruction. Buuut.. best friends who are also very intimate with each other, and monogamous, and have a very deep emotional bond... That sounds awesome (even if to others it probably just sounds like romance, haha) ....Does any of that make sense? Link to post Share on other sites
Alawyn-Aebt Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 23 minutes ago, neverlove said: I'm not interested in grand gestures of love or even little notes and flowers. What else is there to romance? Romantic love is much more than just the stereotypical tropes of outward signs of affection. Romance is very hard to describe but it is a form of love (romantic love) and love involves caring, therefore romantic love involves caring. People box people and things into categories but the lines between different forms of love are very blurry. We can attempt to simply by instead of focusing on the love side, focusing on the attraction side and that sometimes helps. (E.g.; Sexual attraction is the desire to have sex, etc.) Sadly even that breaks down on romance, e.g., Romantic attraction is the desire to have romance. That definition doesn't help at all. My point is this, romance is much more than just grand outward public gestures, it is a feeling and a love. Do not equate romantic feelings/attraction with the outward displays of it culture often features, many people in romantic relationships do not partake in these Hollywood-style displays of romance but that does not make them any less romantic. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: To be honest, I'm actually done with 'romance', as I feel it's been pretty destructive for me in the past. By romance I mean that hardcore emotional ache you get inside that makes you feel a bit crazy and like the world is spinning. But at the same time, I really want a balanced, wholesome, 'best-friend' type relationship. Almost like really close siblings, but...you know.. with some sexy stuff, and kink, included... and a LOT of physical (but non-sexual) intimacy etc so not like siblings at all 😛 But you get what I mean? I want total monogamy, and to know we're bound together forever as introvert loners who don't really relate to most other people, but.. I don't know. Without the jealousy and worry and crying etc that seems to come with romance. I admit, I was diagnosed with BPD many years ago.. and I'm not sure if that's why I'm afraid of the 'romance' word. To me, romance comes with so much destruction. Buuut.. best friends who are also very intimate with each other, and monogamous, and have a very deep emotional bond... That sounds awesome (even if to others it probably just sounds like romance, haha) ....Does any of that make sense? Yeah, that's basically the dream. I tend to say I don't want to marry for love, but I want to love whom I marry. I don't see romance working out for people, so yeah, I'm not sure why they want it. Of course, I don't feel it so maybe that's why I don't get all the fuss! 😂 Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy Alien Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 36 minutes ago, neverlove said: I think it would technically be a romantic relationship, just that I'd probably be considered cold in some aspects. I don't really know. My brother would happily vouch for me not "getting it" and I'm not interested in grand gestures of love or even little notes and flowers. What else is there to romance? Lots of people aren’t “romantic” types. I hate soppy stuff like Valentine’s Day. That’s not me. But I’m still romantic as in (hetero)romantic. What you’re describing sounds a lot like your typical sexual/romantic relationship, to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, Aebt said: My point is this, romance is much more than just grand outward public gestures, it is a feeling and a love. Do not equate romantic feelings/attraction with the outward displays of it culture often features, many people in romantic relationships do not partake in these Hollywood-style displays of romance but that does not make them any less romantic. I know, I was being sort of glib...sorry. Like you said it's hard to define so I can only really say I don't think I feel it because of the reactions I seem to be missing. My brother's pointed out a question I asked when we were kids. If you and the one you love are dying, why would you care that the one you love died a minute or two before you? I still feel this way, what difference do those few minutes make? 5 minutes ago, Kimchi Peanut said: Lots of people aren’t “romantic” types. I hate soppy stuff like Valentine’s Day. That’s not me. But I’m still romantic as in (hetero)romantic. What you’re describing sounds a lot like your typical sexual/romantic relationship, to be honest. You may be right. It's part of what I'm trying to figure out. I guess what I tend to think is that a practical relationship would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, CBC said: I have absolutely no interest in banging someone I like only as a friend and also share a life with, if that's what you're getting. I need my partner to desire me and I need to feel sexual desire for them. Fucking a friend that I'm somehow platonically committed to sounds shitty, and I'm basing that on having lived something like that scenario for a while. The sex eventually stopped for multiple reasons (the major one being that I realised I was gay and it was a relationship with an opposite sex partner, although he also happened to be asexual). So, massive nope. Being able to connect emotionally during sex, and both desiring each other, is absolutely vital. I'm not wasting my time on anything less. Thank you.😂 That's helpful. I expect that a lot of people feel this way. Link to post Share on other sites
Alawyn-Aebt Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, neverlove said: If you and the one you love are dying, why would you care that the one you love died a minute or two before you? I still feel this way, what difference do those few minutes make? I see the same thing, if I and someone I love are dying within a minute or two of each other what difference does a minute make? And I am actually heteromantic. Interesting question though, I am not sure as to its accuracy as an aromantic-romantic predictor. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, CBC said: I imagine most sexual (and romantic) people do, yeah. Obviously some sexual people seek out casual sex (and there's nothing wrong with that), but when it comes to committing to a serious relationship, it generally has to be the whole deal -- romantic love, sexual desire, etc. Yeah, and that's just it, I'm not interested in casual sex either. I don't like people I'm not close to touching me so this is out. *sigh* 1 minute ago, Aebt said: I see the same thing, if I and someone I love are dying within a minute or two of each other what difference does a minute make? And I am actually heteromantic. Interesting question though, I am not sure as to its accuracy as an aromantic-romantic predictor. I don't know, but my brother was more relieved about me saying I'm asexual that I was figuring it out. He was apparently very frustrated with my opinion on these things (i.e. that they're stupid or lust). Link to post Share on other sites
Alawyn-Aebt Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, neverlove said: I don't know Please do not misinterpret me, rereading my posts I realized it is possible for someone to misconstrue my meanings. I am not trying to say you are not aromantic, I am only relating my experiences in the field of romance and in no way mean for anything to appear to invalidate you. If you completely understood the context in which I meant it then ignore this, I just wanted to clarify in case there was a mix up and for any observers who might have misunderstood me. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, CBC said: Yeah. Nor do I, I hate it. Really hate it. Well, there's one exception -- I've given hugs to strangers a handful of times under specific circumstances. (One example: when I was in my early 20s, my mum and I spent some time talking to a fellow patient when I was at the emergency department, sharing some pretty personal stuff, and we both gave him a hug when we left.) But besides those rare hugs, I haaaaate touching people I'm not very close to. Being able to touch my partner though, and be touched by them, including non-sexually of course, is essential to me. I crave it. I can actually do the hug as a greeting thing. When I was little my family got to be really close to a large hispanic family: hello culture shock, got over the hugging thing though. Formal touching is fine, accidental touching is fine, but I was raised to ask people for permission and that people had to ask for mine before touching. This was to protect my brother and I from abuse and it doesn't feel unnatural when my mom asks if she can hug me, it also doesn't feel like a personal rejection on the occasions when we tell each other no. Yet older ladies coming up behind me to play with my hair or some guy deciding to put his arm around my shoulder...GRRYAHAH! 11 minutes ago, Aebt said: I am not trying to say you are not aromantic, I am only relating my experiences in the field of romance and in no way mean for anything to appear to invalidate you. Don't worry, I don't feel invalidated. This is something I'm still trying to figure out, I only know something is different about me (or the same) because there is something to compare it to, right? Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, neverlove said: committed platonic love relationships with a sexual component. How important are romantic and sexual attraction if you could still be loved and have frequent sex? My partner loves me, doesn't have sexual desire, and is willing to have sex fairly frequently. I'm sexual. Using him in this way sometimes makes me feel nauseous, humiliated and/or abusive. He has put a lot of effort into reassuring me that it's ok. I wish I could have his attraction. Sometimes I use him and he comforts me (don't mock me 😖) ... sometimes I feel like the trust and vulnerability is an experience of love. But we do have a strong love. To echo others, I think you might have a narrow conception of romantic love. My own tends to be very pragmatic, loyalty, empathy, long term commitment, strong trust, supporting each other to grow together. Flowers are annoying, they wilt and die. Eventually he bought me an artificial bouquet and I was like, "you truly love me!! 😍" (true story, and we still have them! fake flowers ftw) That... that's a real world version of romantic love. 😄 Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, anisotrophic said: My own tends to be very pragmatic, loyalty, empathy, long term commitment, strong trust, supporting each other to grow together. That sounds lovely, but then what is romantic attraction and how are they related? I know I don't experience sexual attraction and yet I want sex. Is it possible that I don't experience romantic attraction, but want a romantic relationship as well? This is difficult because it seems like we're trying to differentiate terms that are inextricably linked. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, CBC said: Lilies, carnations, freesias... that's more like it Did you know that the word for lily in Japanese "yuri" also refers to lesbian relationships Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, anisotrophic said: Flowers are annoying, they wilt and die. Eventually he bought me an artificial bouquet and I was like, "you truly love me!! 😍" (true story, and we still have them! fake flowers ftw) That... that's a real world version of romantic love. 😄 My "romantic" gifts from people have been things like them knowing me well enough to ignore all the advice and buy me RAM instead of flowers. Or, a little owl I hang in my car that I lost when my old car got totaled, so was a replacement as a gift. Or ... basically just knowing me well enough to know what I like. Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, neverlove said: That sounds lovely, but then what is romantic attraction and how are they related? I've never had friends that are someone for whom I would say: "I want to grow together with you, I will endure and struggle to have this, I want to know you as long as I possibly can" Maybe a sense of scale? I've dated people I didn't have much romantic attraction to. Romantic attraction this strong has only happened three times over 20-25 years. 6 minutes ago, CBC said: Lilies, carnations, freesias... I like alstromeria because they last a long time without wilting. 😄 . 8 minutes ago, neverlove said: I know I don't experience sexual attraction and yet I want sex. Is it possible that I don't experience romantic attraction, but want a romantic relationship as well? I think maybe you have a perfectly understandable case of curiosity. You might start wanting these things once you do them. I don't recall feeling much of either form of attraction until I started dating and having sex. I'm not saying you will, but it's totally reasonable to want to try. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Serran said: My "romantic" gifts from people have been things like them knowing me well enough to ignore all the advice and buy me RAM instead of flowers. Or, a little owl I hang in my car that I lost when my old car got totaled, so was a replacement as a gift. Or ... basically just knowing me well enough to know what I like. Coffee...coffee is obviously romantic. And books. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, anisotrophic said: I've never had friends that are someone for whom I would say: "I want to grow together with you, I will endure and struggle to have this, I want to know you as long as I possibly can" This is the sticking point for me, because I do. I have a friend I could spend the rest of my life with and be perfectly happy, but I don't want to have a sexual relationship with her. Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Just now, neverlove said: This is the sticking point for me, because I do. I have a friend I could spend the rest of my life with and be perfectly happy tbh I've been pretty bad with friends. So I'm not sure whether there's much difference. Over time, romantic relationships will resemble enduring friendships. Maybe that's what they become, in the absence of sexuality. (I could ask my partner but how could we really know? We have kids together, too. That's not a "friend" thing, usually.) I've been trying to convert the most recent "love" incident into a lasting friendship and I think I'm pretty happy about that. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, anisotrophic said: tbh I've been pretty bad with friends. So I'm not sure whether there's much difference. Over time, romantic relationships will resemble enduring friendships. Maybe that's what they become, in the absence of sexuality. (I could ask my partner but how could we really know? We have kids together, too. That's not a "friend" thing, usually.) I've been trying to convert the most recent "love" incident into a lasting friendship and I think I'm pretty happy about that. That's kind of what I always thought. I've always pretty much defined romantic love as a nice way of saying lust (no offense intended to anyone) and that love is basically love no matter what, just that there are some people you choose to have sex with. Now I'm starting to think maybe not so much and this is just how it is without attraction while still having an interest. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Oh, yeah, the love I feel for my partner is Very Different than the love I feel for friends. I described it in another thread and don't feel like digging it up now, but there's a deep connection that feels spiritual, metaphysical, transcendent, like you've always known each other, like your lives are somehow... necessarily intertwined... something that makes you want to share your inner, outer, past and future life... a willingness to let go of other paths to walk a new one with them... The sex really comes out of this love and passion that's so big that there's no other way to express it. It's a physical craving for a degree of closeness and intimacy that isn't otherwise attainable. It's really not just... I like you, I like sex, let's mix that shit up. Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, skullery said: I like you, I like sex, let's mix that shit up. This...is perfect. This is exactly how I feel...and also what I'm concerned about. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, CBC said: I need my partner to desire me and I need to feel sexual desire for them. Yeah I need that too, I need to desire them and for them to desire me too. But, I want that without also wanting to self-destruct if they don't reply to my message after 4 minutes, which is what seems to happen to me when I have the romantic feels Y_Y (is my writing really tiny? I'm on my phone and it seems to be really tiny) Link to post Share on other sites
neverlove Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 Just now, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said: Yeah I need that too, I need to desire them and for them to desire me too. But, I want that without also wanting to self-destruct if they don't reply to my message after 4 minutes, which is what seems to happen to me when I have the romantic feels Y_Y You stated that you have BPD, have you tried cognitive therapy? Like DBT? A guy I met said it helps with that (but maybe not that much because we met in a mental hospital). Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 34 minutes ago, skullery said: Oh, yeah, the love I feel for my partner is Very Different than the love I feel for friends. I described it in another thread and don't feel like digging it up now, but there's a deep connection that feels spiritual, metaphysical, transcendent, like you've always known each other, like your lives are somehow... necessarily intertwined... something that makes you want to share your inner, outer, past and future life... a willingness to let go of other paths to walk a new one with them... The sex really comes out of this love and passion that's so big that there's no other way to express it. It's a physical craving for a degree of closeness and intimacy that isn't otherwise attainable. It's really not just... I like you, I like sex, let's mix that shit up. warning - a bit of self harm Yes, all the above without my whole 'damn I need to cut myself up now I haven't heard from him for 4 minutes so he must have left me, time to die' Y_Y ...I think I've taken a big step forward with being able to acknowledge how destructive relationships are for me emotionally though, so maybe next time I'll somehow be better prepared to curb the negative aspects of my feelings regardless of what label we put on it ps I think my writing might still be tiny Y_Y Link to post Share on other sites
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