Your friend Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 What is your opinion of him? I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but it's still fun to watch him debate, because his argument style is completely logical and flawless, and he completely destroys his opponents. He's actually convinced me to reconsider my views on a lot of things. I know AVEN is super-liberal for the most part, so I don't expect to see a lot of approval, but still, I'd like to see what people think, not so much of his opinions but of his rhetoric. Also, what do you think of him being branded as "Alt-Right" or a "conspiracy theorist" by the far left establishment? (I'm a moderate liberal/centrist in case anyone's wondering.) Link to post Share on other sites
NickyTannock Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I don't find him convincing. I think that he deflects and then attacks rather than respond, which is a cheap debate trick. Link to post Share on other sites
Hylethilei Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I started watching his videos online to try to understand a non-biased version of what it means to be a republican and what types of views that some republicans have that I agree with. With that being said I at least see why he is a republican, but I think the way he carries himself is very superficial and all the videos where he "Destroys" his opponents are mostly freshman in college and you never really see him debate someone on an equal level playing field. He talks about Gender Dysphoria like he knows what it is like to have that, I don't have that but I am understanding more and more what it is about and how people have to live with it on a day to day basis and he does not understand all the facts and claims that he knows better than people with live with it. This dude is supposed to have a high IQ but he constantly says things to just get a laugh in a debate using a horrid analogy to sway people into thinking that he is actually right. It's kinda messed up when you are trying to at least change someone's mind/opinion about a topic and turn it into a comedy show to invalidate peoples opinions. He likes to make people feel really stupid I guess for like no reason at all. He does not care about peoples feelings and emotions and talks to people in a belittling way to the point where they start to question themselves all because he has a high IQ? As far as him being labeled Alt-Right by the left, that quite ridiculous lol. Link to post Share on other sites
andreas1033 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 He is a typical know it all person, whom never suffered, but will come out with all these soundbites, telling everyone else how his view is great and works. He has an audience, as there is plenty whom want to hear people affirm there opinions, by listening to him. People will pay anyone in a position like his, to reinforce there beliefs. This is how such a person exists. He has every right to have opinions, but that does not mean his views are right. Just because you can think, does not equate to being right. He has his views, and has an audience whom will listen, like anyone whom is public, and the public rely on to reinforce there ideas of the world. The reason why some find him convincing, is that people in public resonate to those whom reinforce there ideas. If he does not reinforce your ideas, you will be put of him. In the age of the net, everyone and there son seems to be experts. But in reality most of them have there audience as people that follow him, just like hearing there views affirmed by someone, whom they think has a public presence. The net has made quite a few of these. Even though really they have not suffered, they understand everything they assume, and can tell everyone what to do. In a perfect world his views would matter, but in a imperfect world, know it alls like him, really are just speaking in general terms about his ideals. He has an audience as anyone as outspoken as him will. There will always be people whom will listen to those yelling the loudest. There are people like him, in all sections of society, proclaiming they know it all. If he resonates with you fine, but if he does not, just ignore him, like i assume most do. Link to post Share on other sites
Your friend Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 @UnderworldFan1988 Yeah, his views on gender dysphoria are one part that I really can't agree with him on. "Caitlyn Jenner is not a chicken, Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman." I think he is pretty insensitive to the struggles of trans people. However, he has made some good points about trans indoctrination in schools and how it could potentially lead to kids who are naturally cisgendered getting confused about themselves, deciding that they're trans, and then eventually killing themselves because of it. My solution would be "Let the individual decide, and don't try to influence them either way." Don't try to force a collectivist agenda on a population. The only good is what is good for the individual. Transgenderism is something that for whatever reason is part of some people's inherent psychology. It should not be "promoted" the way a particular brand or ideology is promoted. It's like trying to promote autism. You either are or you aren't. Let the individual figure it out for themselves, and don't try to confuse them about who they are. Link to post Share on other sites
Hylethilei Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 2 14 minutes ago, Some guy said: @UnderworldFan1988 Yeah, his views on gender dysphoria are one part that I really can't agree with him on. "Caitlyn Jenner is not a chicken, Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman." I think he is pretty insensitive to the struggles of trans people. However, he has made some good points about trans indoctrination in schools and how it could potentially lead to kids who are naturally cisgendered getting confused about themselves, deciding that they're trans, and then eventually killing themselves because of it. My solution would be "Let the individual decide, and don't try to influence them either way." Don't try to force a collectivist agenda on a population. The only good is what is good for the individual. Transgenderism is something that for whatever reason is part of some people's inherent psychology. It should not be "promoted" the way a particular brand or ideology is promoted. It's like trying to promote autism. You either are or you aren't. Let the individual figure it out for themselves, and don't try to confuse them about who they are. Can you get evaluated by a doctor if you have gender dysphoria to prevent that issue of indoctrination? Link to post Share on other sites
ColeHW34 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 He's a joke and not even a good one who promotes fascism and bigotry. Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 He fared very very poorly arguing against conservative Andrew Neil where he walked out of it https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/may/11/us-pundit-ben-shapiro-apologises-bbc-andrew-neil-interview Link to post Share on other sites
Hylethilei Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, iff said: He fared very very poorly arguing against conservative Andrew Neil where he walked out of it https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/may/11/us-pundit-ben-shapiro-apologises-bbc-andrew-neil-interview Lol is this the interview where he calls that Andrew a leftist? He was laughing really hard when he said that XD Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, UnderworldFan1988 said: Lol is this the interview where he calls that Andrew a leftist? He was laughing really hard when he said that XD I think everyone whose watched Andrew also laughed hard at that :d Link to post Share on other sites
GlamRocker Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Shapiro is a swaggering bully presenting as an intellectual. As @MichaelTannock said, he uses cheap schoolyard tactics to fluster his opponent rather than respond to their points. So many people are irresistibly drawn to bullies because it makes them feel powerful to be associated with power. This is part of the reason people voted for Trump. It has nothing to do with how sound his reasoning is. His reasoning is often unsound. Link to post Share on other sites
GlamRocker Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Shapiro is a super badass name, though. Always loved the sound of it lol Link to post Share on other sites
Your friend Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, UnderworldFan1988 said: Can you get evaluated by a doctor if you have gender dysphoria to prevent that issue of indoctrination? I definitely think anyone who does feel they are experiencing gender dysphoria should talk extensively to a psychiatrist and a therapist before making any decisions about what to do. Sometimes people who otherwise wouldn't have dysphoria can be influenced to have it by something external. Also, there's no one-size-fits-all solution to gender dysphoria. The individual should decide what solution is best for them after getting psychotherapy. I've found talking to a therapist to be very helpful in dealing with my own gender dysphoria, and though I have no desire to transition completely, I am working out a solution that is tailored to my specific needs. This is why I think transgenderism should still be treated as a mental illness. It is something that has a profound and often devastating effect on an individual's psychology, and any real transgender person will agree with me on this. It's not just a label that you can slap on yourself whenever you feel a little off. Gender dysphoria is a serious condition that needs to be dealt with by a professional and not by random people on the Internet, because the stakes are often literally life-or-death. I also think it's highly irresponsible of the WHO to remove gender dysphoria from the DSM just because they're afraid of bad press (because that is why they're doing it). It's not like homosexuality, where any problems the individual experiences are purely a result of society's inability to accept who they are. It is something that, by itself, causes significant distress to the affected individual. Treating it like just another label to be applied haphazardly is very trivializing to the struggles of those who actually have the condition. There seems to be this perception in society that calling gender dysphoria a mental illness is equivalent to saying that transgender people are bad or that their identities are invalid. It's quite the opposite actually. My schizoaffective disorder is a mental illness, but it's still a perfectly valid part of my identity and personality. Saying that psychotic or bipolar people are mentally ill doesn't invalidate them in any way. So why should it be so with gender dysphoria? Link to post Share on other sites
Hylethilei Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Some guy said: I definitely think anyone who does feel they are experiencing gender dysphoria should talk extensively to a psychiatrist and a therapist before making any decisions about what to do. Sometimes people who otherwise wouldn't have dysphoria can be influenced to have it by something external. Also, there's no one-size-fits-all solution to gender dysphoria. The individual should decide what solution is best for them after getting psychotherapy. I've found talking to a therapist to be very helpful in dealing with my own gender dysphoria, and though I have no desire to transition completely, I am working out a solution that is tailored to my specific needs. This is why I think transgenderism should still be treated as a mental illness. It is something that has a profound and often devastating effect on an individual's psychology, and any real transgender person will agree with me on this. It's not just a label that you can slap on yourself whenever you feel a little off. Gender dysphoria is a serious condition that needs to be dealt with by a professional and not by random people on the Internet, because the stakes are often literally life-or-death. I also think it's highly irresponsible of the WHO to remove gender dysphoria from the DSM just because they're afraid of bad press (because that is why they're doing it). It's not like homosexuality, where any problems the individual experiences are purely a result of society's inability to accept who they are. It is something that, by itself, causes significant distress to the affected individual. Treating it like just another label to be applied haphazardly is very trivializing to the struggles of those who actually have the condition. There seems to be this perception in society that calling gender dysphoria a mental illness is equivalent to saying that transgender people are bad or that their identities are invalid. It's quite the opposite actually. My schizoaffective disorder is a mental illness, but it's still a perfectly valid part of my identity and personality. Saying that psychotic or bipolar people are mentally ill doesn't invalidate them in any way. So why should it be so with gender dysphoria? I agree with all of this! Thanks for taking the time to write such a long response on this ❤️ Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Some guy said: What is your opinion of him? He is Satan incarnate. No one I know in the political sphere is as evil as him. He's on the wrong side of every single moral and political issue ever. One exception though, but I can't be bothered to even give him credit for that, since he was personally motivated on that one too. Link to post Share on other sites
Your friend Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said: He is Satan incarnate. No one I know in the political sphere is as evil as him. He's on the wrong side of every single moral and political issue ever. One exception though, but I can't be bothered to even give him credit for that, since he was personally motivated on that one too. I wholeheartedly disagree. The honor of Most Evil Person in Politics belongs rightly and squarely to Dick Cheney. Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, Some guy said: I wholeheartedly disagree. The honor of Most Evil Person in Politics belongs rightly and squarely to Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney has nothing on Shapiro Satan. Link to post Share on other sites
Your friend Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, Winged Whisperer said: Dick Cheney has nothing on Shapiro Satan. Eh? Last time I checked, Shapiro didn't slaughter a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians to boost profits for his oil company. Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, Some guy said: Eh? Last time I checked, Shapiro didn't slaughter a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians to boost profits for his oil company. Satan routinely vilifies all muslims and immigrants, and has been instrumental in the maintaining the far-right and alt-right pipeline. He's directly responsible for right-wing mass shootings and white supremacy's recent growth. He's been instrumental also in helping the right-wing in America maintain power [including getting Trump elected]. And he's doing all of this mostly for money. He's running a business which he spends $30k (or was it 80k? Not sure) a week on to advertise and spread his ideology of hate so he can then turn into more money. No one alive trumps Satan in evil. Link to post Share on other sites
Your friend Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said: Satan routinely vilifies all muslims and immigrants, and has been instrumental in the maintaining the far-right and alt-right pipeline. He's directly responsible for right-wing mass shootings and white supremacy's recent growth. He's been instrumental also in helping the right-wing in America maintain power [including getting Trump elected]. And he's doing all of this mostly for money. He's running a business which he spends $30k (or was it 80k? Not sure) a week on to advertise and spread his ideology of hate so he can then turn into more money. No one alive trumps Satan in evil. Dick Cheney is responsible for destabilizing the Middle East, which led to the rise of ISIS, which led to the Syrian refugee crisis, which is the entire reason there's so much Islamophobia and fear of immigrants right now. Ben Shapiro's just calling it like he sees it. He's not the one actually causing the problems. As for mass shootings, the blood is on the hands of the corporate media for intentionally pitting people against each other. Giant media empires funded by Wall Street run both Fox News and CNN alike, fanning the flames of war to get people at each other's throats - pitting Democrats against Republicans, pitting blacks against whites, pitting Mexicans against Americans, pitting men against women, pitting LGBT people against cishets. It's all a big scheme by the elites to keep the population divided so they won't unite and rise up and overthrow the establishment. If you partake in right-left politics in any way, be aware that you are propagating the problem. If you want to stop all the bloodshed and defeat the elites, become a centrist. The left is not your enemy, the right is not your enemy, the enemy is the elites who are pulling the strings on both sides. Stop buying into their hatemongering tactics, make peace with the rest of the 99%, and unite against the corporate war machine. Link to post Share on other sites
Calligraphette_Coe Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, GlamRocker said: Shapiro is a swaggering bully presenting as an intellectual. As @MichaelTannock said, he uses cheap schoolyard tactics to fluster his opponent rather than respond to their points. So many people are irresistibly drawn to bullies because it makes them feel powerful to be associated with power. This is part of the reason people voted for Trump. It has nothing to do with how sound his reasoning is. His reasoning is often unsound. Exactly. And he's often forced to recant wehn called on the facts. He himself admits that. I have to do a lot of commuting in this uber conservative area, and the Big Four conservative talkers are all one can get on the car radio during these. So, I listen to them even though they almost always pander to the people that would harm me so that I can be always ready to find the gaping defects in their logic. One other thing I've notice about these 'talk shows'? They started off as shows that talked to callers. Shapiro's show, in particular, has NO callers. People like Levin and Savage are so ungodly rude to all the callers who don't start out with 'Oh! I swoon on your every word....'. Maybe that's why they call them Right Wing Echo Chambers-- they purport to be objective, even while having no real opposition to argue against. Shapiro, in particular, has not always fared as well when put up against a logical, balanced opponent. Lastly, he always rails against identity politics while engaging in his _own_ brand of identity politics. Link to post Share on other sites
FindingTheta Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Natalie Wynn, Michael Brooks and Sam Seder (among others) have done excellent analyses of Ben Shapiro on various occasions. Ben Shapiro pushes a conservative narrative that appeals to people that lack the will to look at the underlying causes behind a certain topic. He's a grifter I don't waste my time on. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloomy Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I’ve never really watched Mr. Facts Don’t Care About Your Feelings Except When It Comes To Religion, but I like seeing people react to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Alawyn-Aebt Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Ben Shapiro, this will be a fun discussion. I myself am indifferent to him, I do not agree with him and his arguments have problems. That being said people seem to over-credit him for everything, be it positive or negative. That being said he has apologized on occasion when he grossly distorts the facts, which is something I appreciate (would have been nice if you got it right the first time though, but I accept the apology). 4 hours ago, Some guy said: his argument style is completely logical and flawless This is where he is not, I love to debate and watched (and still do to an extent) many debates to learn via observation on how to be a better debater. Ben Shapiro has a habit of straw-manning arguments and talking so fast so as to confuse his listeners/debating partners. He seems to approach a debate it seems under the idea to solely win. Debating is not about winning but rather proving or disproving something and hopefully start getting either your debating partner or any observers thinking in a new way. He also loves to rally against identity politics while relying on them himself. In some cases he can be a demagogue who decries demagoguery (which tends to be a feature of demagogues). Lastly he does really pick and choose his sources when he cites, or deliberately shift the Overton window to make himself appear more reasonable (e.g. calling the Brookings Institution "extremely liberal" when he cites them despite the fact the Brookings Institution is ranked on a scale of 1(conservate) to 100(liberal) as a 53, just about as equal as you can be.) 2 hours ago, Some guy said: if you want to stop all the bloodshed and defeat the elites, become a centrist. The left is not your enemy, the right is not your enemy, the enemy is the elites who are pulling the strings on both sides. On thing I will say about this, I am not criticizing your own beliefs or anything of that nature, but the people usually defined as centrist politically are generally not revolutionaries trying to overthrow any elites; they tend to be status quo supporters or cautious reformers. I am assuming you are an American based off of what you talk about. In America politics, on whatever part of the spectrum, is dominated by money, heavily dominated. Money can win an election, and a lack of money could mean even if you have great ideas you will never get out of the starting gate. (I assume that you, as do many people who use the word elites, mean wealthy when you say elites.) Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 it's always a little disappointing to read destroyed and debate in the same sentence... Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Wayne Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I watched him a bit some time ago, and couldn't stand it. I don't like people like him. Link to post Share on other sites
Kelly Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 A rather good write-up on him is here: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro Link to post Share on other sites
Calligraphette_Coe Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, Kelly said: A rather good write-up on him is here: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro Thanks, Kelly- it was rather good. Despite his droning transphobia, I listen to him because I like to see him squirm his way around all the kooky things DJT said/says. Myself, I know his transphobic straw men are just another form of Fan Service. I know this because all the right wing white nationalist where I work listen to him because of the trans bashing, but they make no bones about NOT liking Jews in general. They always say "He's OK when he's not playing The Jew Card". I often had to wonder how these guys feel about having to pay the piper by hawking typical AM Radio Schlockware, like "The IRS wants your money and will get it if you owe them back taxes." :::::boggle::::: From the Personal Responsibility Templars? Seriously? The contradictions these guys dish up between their ads and their monologues is like the ant walking up to the anteater saying 'Quick! HIDE ME!' Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 This sounds like the sort of person I'm glad I've never had the displeasure of meeting Link to post Share on other sites
FindingTheta Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 "Shapiro has also started selling doomsday prepper food" https://mypatriotsupply.com/pages/2-week-emergency-food-supply-preparewithben-com?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgpL7xeye5AIVApSzCh3lxA50EAAYASAAEgIe6fD_BwE WOW! That's some top-tier grifting: Peddle an ideology where you make people think they're under constant threat by communists, Muslims, and transsexuals then sell them Freedom food and Alpha supplements in case the world they're trying to burn actually burns! Link to post Share on other sites
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