Struggles of 21st century man

[Pandark]

This is a man's world. Isn't it? Men generally aren't keen on discussing their struggles. There are exceptions, of course. In an effort to bring ever so slightly closer together the two sides of the seemingly tremendous divide between today's male and female experiences (sorry, leaving out others for simplicity's sake), I will attempt to bring to light some of man's struggles. Where to start? It is often said men call the shots. But do they? Alpha males seem to have plenty of decisions to make. They are a minority, however. What about an average male?

 

The average male's environment can be quite harsh. When a woman isn't on top of her game, she's regarded a damsel in distress. Any good person would help her. When a man isn't on top of his game, he is a liability. It is best to steer clear of such men. Then, there is the ultra competitive job market, where it's all about achievements and personal presentation. Men lacking either of these will not easily get a job. Sure, you can always let yourself be exploited by some postal service and get paid below minimum wage, plenty of jobs there. Be prepared to pay 60% of your income to rent a ridiculously small apartment. The remainder is spent on food and basic insurance. Not much left, is there? But this is just materialistic shit, right? It's all about love, as you all would know?

 

So, as a less than attractive male, you take your chances on the ever growing online dating scene. Hey, that's weird! No one is responding! I wonder what's going on. After doing some homework, it's easy to see what is happening. There are too many other males to compete with! What do they have that you don't? After some investigating it seems they either have better jobs, are more charming or better looking or aren't as "autistic" as you. According to some women, dating sites are full of autistic males. Reactions like, "*sigh*, plenty of autistic men here" are not uncommon. I hope it doesn't seem I'm implying autism is a bad thing, because I'm not. It just baffles me how easily men are deemed autistic because they don't "get" women. Oh well, at least you made the effort to give me a reply, and supposedly something to work on...

 

Life can be pretty bleak when you don't have that edge over your peers. Talking about these things, though.. It mostly gets you nowhere. It will certainly not earn you much respect. Many women say how they love it when men are open and speak what weighs on their heart, but in truth, men who do so are often perceived as sub-standard. Making oneself vulnerable may be brave, but sharing the contents of one's heart is often perceived as weak, by other men and women alike. Women simply think you aren't the independent man they're looking for, which is totally their right. But to say men are calling all the shots in society... They're not. In fact, when it comes to partner selection, it's mostly women who do the choosing today. Men just have to show lots of initiative and always have to be on top of their game. I haven't even started on asexuality yet. Failing to please women will make the best of men end up alone, possibly relieved of a good part of their fortune (this applies to sexual men too, of course).

 

Life is harsh for many of today's men. Just felt like ranting.

[Acing It]

33 minutes ago, Pandark said:

There are exceptions, of course. In an effort to bring ever so slightly closer together the two sides of the seemingly tremendous divide between today's male and female experiences

Slightly controversial and not an accusation, merely an observation of the world around me. Each time people talk about it in those terms serves they both confirm the perceived different experiences and strengthen them. IMO the experience of 'real' women or men (to duplicate your simplification) is much more individualised and often a-typical, in spite of pressure of different agencies in society towards the extreme (male/female representation), especially in the media and advertising. I do notice you used the word seemingly, so again, what I'm saying is not a direct reaction to what you said, but more to how people talk about this in general. Most wouldn't used the word seemingly.

 

I don't really have anything to contribute when it comes to the rest of your message, and it sounds like you've had a rough time, but I can understand what you mean with what you said below.

 

33 minutes ago, Pandark said:

In fact, when it comes to partner selection, it's mostly women who do the choosing today.

.

 

 

[ColeHW34]

(Rolls eyes)

Toxic much?

Everyone has it far better than they realize. At least your not being ridculed your entire life and having people lie through the teeth at you.

[Grimalkin]

They say men are valued for what they do (productivity, money-making capabilities, etc.), and women are valued for what they are (how they look, how submissive they are, motherhood). Men do, women have done to them. Women get to be the "choosers" of men because they get to have done to them (be impregnated). Just look at any crazy bird mating dance. Men have unlimited seed, women can only be pregnant so often. Biology. Bleh.

 

It creates a weird grass-is-always-greener situation for everybody. Men want to be valued for what they are sometimes, and women want to be valued for what they do. And the good thing is, the world today is better than it's ever been for that. Gradually, we're shifting towards the idea that everyone should be allowed to do everything, whether it's be the wage-earner and be assertive, or be emotionally vulnerable and parent. 

 

 But man, you know where all that progress goes out the window? Dating sites. 

 

They suck for everybody, trust me. Men are frustrated that they're unheard or can't measure up. Women are frustrated that they're inundated night and day by hundreds of truly gross messages. Men get desperate, women get overwhelmed. It's icky. And believe me, it's not the right culture for asexual people. It's not really healthy for anyone. 

 

I recommend staying the hell away from dating sites. Try instead to join a lot of hobby or activity groups. I'm not saying go in there and be immediately chasing down the women, but they allow for so much easier socializing and more organic meetings. People have been shown to be a lot less choosy in real life. They're not desperate or overwhelmed, and they tend to be nicer, too. 

 

A last note-- seriously, ditch the "alpha male" thing. Women don't look for the "alpha" traits that men talk about cultivating. They look for people who mesh well with them on all levels. And yes, they look for attractive people, but so does everyone. And even if you don't think you're so great in the looks department (definitely get a professional style consultation if you're worried!), there's just as many women out there who feel the same insecurity.  

[Pandark]

Thanks for the replies.

 

@Grimalkin Thanks for the kind words. I guess I put a lot of emphasis on the dating site experience, but my frustration is how as a man you always have to be positive, even if you're not at all feeling like it. I know you don't have to be a dominant alpha male to be loved and respected, but society frowns at any kind of negativity from man. Also, to maintain some kind of social status (which, whatever anyone says, IS important), it seems one needs to continuously be seizing opportunity. I just felt tired of it. I appreciate you empathizing, though.

 

@Moonman I posted this to vent and to see if others can relate. Some people may relate to this, some may view a perspective they aren't so familiar with. I'm not trying to please anyone. Maybe I'm not great at bringing down barriers and getting people to speak about issues. I probably wouldn't talk about this outside of an internet forum. Anyway I just feel tired of living in this dog house and being dismissed all the time. I would want to claim a small bit of land and build something for myself, but those bloody humans won't let me. They just tell me I belong to them and make me work for them. OK, done venting my feelings of estrangement.

[Acing It]

2 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

They say men are valued for what they do (productivity, money-making capabilities, etc.), and women are valued for what they are (how they look, how submissive they are, motherhood). Men do, women have done to them. Women get to be the "choosers" of men because they get to have done to them (be impregnated). Just look at any crazy bird mating dance. Men have unlimited seed, women can only be pregnant so often. Biology. Bleh.

 

It creates a weird grass-is-always-greener situation for everybody. Men want to be valued for what they are sometimes, and women want to be valued for what they do. And the good thing is, the world today is better than it's ever been for that. Gradually, we're shifting towards the idea that everyone should be allowed to do everything, whether it's be the wage-earner and be assertive, or be emotionally vulnerable and parent. 

 

 But man, you know where all that progress goes out the window? Dating sites. 

 

They suck for everybody, trust me. Men are frustrated that they're unheard or can't measure up. Women are frustrated that they're inundated night and day by hundreds of truly gross messages. Men get desperate, women get overwhelmed. It's icky. And believe me, it's not the right culture for asexual people. It's not really healthy for anyone. 

 

I recommend staying the hell away from dating sites. Try instead to join a lot of hobby or activity groups. I'm not saying go in there and be immediately chasing down the women, but they allow for so much easier socializing and more organic meetings. People have been shown to be a lot less choosy in real life. They're not desperate or overwhelmed, and they tend to be nicer, too. 

 

A last note-- seriously, ditch the "alpha male" thing. Women don't look for the "alpha" traits that men talk about cultivating. They look for people who mesh well with them on all levels. And yes, they look for attractive people, but so does everyone. And even if you don't think you're so great in the looks department (definitely get a professional style consultation if you're worried!), there's just as many women out there who feel the same insecurity.  

I can definitely agree with this^^

[LeChat]

Were you looking for a thread like this one?

 

 

[RoseGoesToYale]

2 hours ago, Pandark said:

This is a man's world. Isn't it?

It's nobody's world. We're all stuck in an oppressive system of gender that exists out of uneducated ancient fears that humanity would die out. The system exists to perpetuate human reproduction and humans exist to perpetuate the system. Unsurprisingly, it's the positive feedback loop that has resulted in overpopulation and depletion of natural resources. Every gender suffers under it, including men.

 

3 hours ago, Pandark said:

Then, there is the ultra competitive job market, where it's all about achievements and personal presentation.

It's why I (a woman) can't get a job, either. The entirety of the working world was designed to make sure the humans with the provider role, males, would provide for the humans with the birth giver role, females, so that the birth givers would have everything they need and feel more inclined to have sex and babies. Of course, now, capitalism and industrialization put that system on steroids, and just the men working wasn't enough to keep up with the rapid-growing need for more profit. The reason capitalism lets women work outside the home isn't because corporations want women to be empowered or have gender parity... it's because capitalism figured out that larger pool of workers = more profit opportunities = no brainer. If we truly had gender equality, we'd have job application and interview procedures that'd look waaaay different than they do know. Achievements would be on the same level as informal, demonstrable skills. Work roles would suited to personality types and talents, not resumes. The government would actually give a damn about getting people work that benefits everyone in society, not letting corporations gatekeep perfectly capable people out with archaic and restrictive hiring policies. Because then it wouldn't be about just profits anymore, but making lives better. See: Nordic Countries.

 

3 hours ago, Pandark said:

So, as a less than attractive male, you take your chances on the ever growing online dating scene.

Online dating is a crock. It does the exact same thing to human relationships that the above does to the job world, turn it into a rat race of who's got the better plumage, as it were. You can't seriously get to know a potential life parter via a social media profile, it just doesn't work. It leaves too much room for assumptions, bias, and outright lying. Not to mention I've known women who go on those sites (ex-roommate cough) who aren't seriously interested in dating, but do it to see who's out there, or just to mess with poor men who are taking it seriously. No moderation at all there. I seriously think we should bring affordable real-life matchmakers back, they do a way better job at determining compatibility and don't leave people hanging.

 

3 hours ago, Pandark said:

Many women say how they love it when men are open and speak what weighs on their heart, but in truth, men who do so are often perceived as sub-standard. Making oneself vulnerable may be brave, but sharing the contents of one's heart is often perceived as weak, by other men and women alike.

A lot of women, when they say that, want men to say only certain romanticized things they've heard in movies, songs, etc. They want to hear sweet nothings and beautiful poetry, not what makes their partners depressed or feel inadequate or ashamed, the things that are really going on in their lives. For a lot of men, their romantic and/or sexual partners are their only source of emotional support, because they don't know who else to turn to who will take their problems seriously and not judge them as failed pieces of manhood. But hetero women who expect their male partners to be pillars of strength, happiness, and steady income all the time may not even be willing to seriously listen. Or maybe the guy can't find a partner and has no one to talk to. What then?

 

Seek community online? In places like 8chan, where depressed men like themselves have taken to extreme ideology? Where the same men find their out of life by carrying out horrendous mass shootings before shooting themselves?

 

Modern feminism has greatly worsened the divide between the genders by making it near impossible to constructively discuss actual equality where all the people in the system are taken care of. I truly believe if men had listening ears for their problems and actual support, the mass shootings would stop. Problem is, any person with a uterus is allowed to call themselves feminist even if they're not interested in gender equality and want to use it for their own gains, to perpetuate the system. Gender equality means having women willing to listen to men and financially support them. It means halting the sexualization of certain body types over others in the media. It means making sure all young people, boys as well as girls, develop the emotional vocabulary necessary to communicate and have their needs met. It means giving dads paternity leave and letting fathers hold their children's hands and braid their hair without society throwing a hissy.

[LeChat]

1 hour ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

...I truly believe if men had listening ears for their problems and actual support, the mass shootings would stop...

I'm confused. I remember reading family members of some of the shooters (who were diagnosed with a medical condition, mental illness, etc.) say that they did try to be a listening ear and help them, beforehand (also, taking them to doctors and therapists), and that a few of the shooters mentioned in their manifestos that they decided to stop taking their medication(s).

 

Some women have tried staying in an abusive relationship with their boyfriend/husband, thinking that they could change them and get them to stop being abusive, by trying to be a submissive, people pleaser, doing whatever their boyfriend/husband wanted, and it still didn't change anything; sadly, some have ended up being murdered by their abusive boyfriend/husband.

 

Despite people's hardest intentions at trying to help others, it's not possible to prevent someone who has a mental illness/medical condition, etc. from committing violence against others, if that person refuses or is unable to understand that there are people around them who are listening to them and trying to help. That person has to want to change, themselves; others aren't able to do that for them, make them take their medication, etc.

[RoseGoesToYale]

1 hour ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

I remember reading family members of some of the shooters (who were diagnosed with a medical condition, mental illness, etc.) say that they did try to be a listening ear and help them, beforehand (also, taking them to doctors and therapists), and that a few of the shooters mentioned in their manifestos that they decided to stop taking their medication(s).

Key word being "tried". No one can say for certain how well the people around the shooters were actually listening, if they were listening at all, because I don't have a window into their personal lives. I always err on the side of suspicion, perhaps because I came from a broken household myself. I don't automatically give families the benefit of the doubt. Also, there is a chance that shooter's parents/guardians would lie and say they did try to listen and be helpful, even if they didn't, because it not only makes them look like incompetent parents, it's national media attention. News readers who believe the parents didn't do everything possible to prevent the shooting would pin blame on the parents, which is of course unfair, no parents are perfect and it was the shooter's actions alone, but the public doesn't always think rationally after tragedies happen.

 

Plus, medication for mental health issues doesn't always work. People stop taking medication for a number of reasons, one being that it's not working. In some people, depression medication can make suicidal thoughts worse, especially young people. I also firmly believe that the vast majority of depression diagnoses (and mine would fall under this) are way more than just something going wrong in the brain. I believe external factors do play a role. It would be very convenient for society to spin it the other way because if it's just a chemical imbalance, then rest of us are innocent and don't have to change our ways. I was first diagnosed with depression at age 8, and nothing in my life was going right. I had trouble seeing the board (the adults didn't notice until two years later), which was killing my grades in math, and by extension making my mother scream at me every night after reading the teacher's notes in my planner. I was also being bullied. Did the bullies themselves cause my depression? Y'know, that's hard to say... but it sure doesn't feel right that I should have to take medication and/or seek therapy for the natural reaction to uncivil behavior that shouldn't be happening in the first place.

 

There's a reason why anti-bullying programs exist instead of "free-SSRIs-for-bully-victims" programs, because bullying can lead to depression, and some very beautiful people out there have decided that it's the bullying behavior that should not be tolerated.

 

1 hour ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

Despite people's hardest intentions at trying to help others, it's not possible to prevent someone who has a mental illness/medical condition, etc. from committing violence against others, if that person refuses or is unable to understand that there are people around them who are listening to them and trying to help. That person has to want to change, themselves; others aren't able to do that for them, make them take their medication, etc.

I have to hope beyond hope this is not true, because if it is, humanity has already lost the battle to mental illness and mass shooters, and there's no point in trying to fix the system. If some people are just destined to commit violence, there's nothing we can do, nothing we can change. Innocent people will continue to die. And the part about people "having to want to change"? The only reason people say this is because our mental health system is so broken and so underfunded, and people's attitude toward mental illness is still so far behind, that it's easier to blame individuals for this predicament they're in when we are all perfectly capable as a species of identifying people who are struggling and proactively helping them get better. When you're depressed, you don't want to get better, because it's hard to want anything when you feel too hopeless and drained to even get out of bed and feed yourself. Alcoholics don't just up and drag themselves to AA after an epiphany of "wanting to get better", they hit rock bottom so hard that the people around them finally notice and have to stage an intervention. Nobody can get better without real, consistent support from people who care.

 

Sorry, OP. This thread is supposed to be about men's issues. I'd be happy to expand upon the above in a separate thread, if anyone wishes, but do bear in mind, it's a bit of a sore subject.

[anisotrophic]

@Pandark I do think men do have struggles -- I'll be learning more about that as I start T.

 

But the framework of alpha/beta male vs women often fails to appreciate what it's like to be a "beta female" in this world. Please be careful not to descend into misogyny, that's typically where this pattern of thinking goes.

[Pandark]

9 hours ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

Sorry, OP. This thread is supposed to be about men's issues. I'd be happy to expand upon the above in a separate thread, if anyone wishes, but do bear in mind, it's a bit of a sore subject.

Don't be. I'm glad there is some kind of conversation going on. It gives me something to reflect upon and also a little insight into what's on other peoples minds and how they perceive what I'm struggling with.

 

One thing that struck me is how it seems I remind you of the shooters. I'm not sure if this says something about me or about the world we live in. I just feel like I have no choice but to be a functioning cog in this disgusting machine, because there's not a single patch of land that hasn't been already claimed by humans. Not in temperate regions anyway. So much for independence. I just felt like spitting out some bile. In reality I know I'm part of this as much as any other person. I just felt frustrated and there seems to be no one to talk to. I talked to professionals. They seem to not care and be too busy with more urgent cases. To be fair, in the past some of them did care, and I do my best to remember that. Outside of health care I can talk to family and friends of course. They're emotionally invested in me, though. I know I have really hurt them by venting about these topics on several occasions.

 

8 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

Please be careful not to descend into misogyny, that's typically where this pattern of thinking goes.

I know. I'm sorry if I was passing blame and generalizing. I was just pissed off at society's unreasonable expectations in general and also in partner selection. I know it's a natural process and I can't blame women for not wanting me. I guess I can be somewhat arrogant too. Sometimes I meet guys who are total jackasses (like me, haha), but they have excellent social skills and are well liked by everyone. Any kind of social interaction is a struggle for me! I managed to train myself to be able to be among people for two hours without falling back into my default glass stare and slow speech. This is like wearing a mask for me. I takes great effort and works only at a superficial level. I find it very hard to connect with people. I do observe others a lot. I *think* I understand them, but at other times I think I don't. Anyway it aggravates me if people tell me/ask me if I'm autistic. I don't think I am. Even if I am, so what? Anyway, I'm no misogynist. In fact I love women (I think? would depend on your definition of love). I can see a kind of beauty in all humans, but as a whole humanity sometimes seems like a plague to me.

 

 

Ugh.. I feel like somewhere I just gave up hope of ever becoming a proper gentleman. I need some time to rearrange the contents of my brain. At the next best opportunity I guess I'll go do some bushcrafting or something. 😏

[RoseGoesToYale]

5 hours ago, Pandark said:

One thing that struck me is how it seems I remind you of the shooters.

Omg, not you specifically! You don't seem like a shooter. Reason I brought it up in that way was to illustrate the most extreme path a small demographic of males take when they're distressed and don't know what to do with their feelings. Plus, the instances of shooters has been shown to be overwhelmingly male, and psychologists, and even sociologists, seem more interested in labelling the problem as just an unfortunate chemical imbalance in the brain rather than investigating why these men are rationalizing extremism as a solution to whatever they're facing, and trying to solve that problem.

 

One thing people often forget, especially after a shooting, is that mentally ill people are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators of it.

 

The vast majority of men turn to inward destruction rather than outward when they don't have any sort of supportive outlet... binge drinking, taking drugs, engaging in risky behavior like daredevil stunts or lots of unprotected sex. Especially in young men, this behavior gets written off as just "boys being boys", or that they're just attention-seeking. And I want to scream, yes, of course they're seeking attention because either the people they love won't give them any, or they don't have the emotional vocabulary to say what's wrong! Or they're scared that if they even say something is wrong, they'll be criticized for not being man enough to deal with it themselves.

 

6 hours ago, Pandark said:

I talked to professionals. They seem to not care and be too busy with more urgent cases.

I've had a few outright bad experiences with mental health professionals, so I sympathize. The whole system is a mess... psychologists are allowed to charge whatever high price they want per session. It makes sense to me that they'd dote more time and energy to patients who go twice a week rather than once a week, because the psychologist makes more money off the former patient. It's way too easy for them to get greedy. And there are major loopholes in standardization and accountability, by which I mean if patients have a bad experience with a psychologist, it's never "this psychologist isn't doing a good job", it's "oh, the patients just didn't fit with the psychologist's style." It leaves way too much room for sub-par mental health care, and at a price people who need it most can't even afford!

 

6 hours ago, Pandark said:

Outside of health care I can talk to family and friends of course. They're emotionally invested in me, though. I know I have really hurt them by venting about these topics on several occasions.

That's good to hear.  And you're allowed to vent, even if it's not what everyone want to hear (and let's face it, vents never are), people who really care about you will listen to you. It's far less hurtful than keeping all that stuff bottled up and having it come out passive-aggressively or worse.

[Pandark]

@RoseGoesToYale Thank you. You made me feel better and I really appreciate it.

[ben8884]

Moved to Philosophy Politics and Science

Ben8884 Moderator for Asexual Musings and Rantings 

[Skycaptain]

 

 

How I used to feel 

 

 

[InDefenseOfPOMO]

On 8/20/2019 at 1:43 PM, Pandark said:

This is a man's world. Isn't it? Men generally aren't keen on discussing their struggles. There are exceptions, of course. In an effort to bring ever so slightly closer together the two sides of the seemingly tremendous divide between today's male and female experiences (sorry, leaving out others for simplicity's sake), I will attempt to bring to light some of man's struggles. Where to start? It is often said men call the shots. But do they? Alpha males seem to have plenty of decisions to make. They are a minority, however. What about an average male?

 

The average male's environment can be quite harsh. When a woman isn't on top of her game, she's regarded a damsel in distress. Any good person would help her. When a man isn't on top of his game, he is a liability. It is best to steer clear of such men. Then, there is the ultra competitive job market, where it's all about achievements and personal presentation. Men lacking either of these will not easily get a job. Sure, you can always let yourself be exploited by some postal service and get paid below minimum wage, plenty of jobs there. Be prepared to pay 60% of your income to rent a ridiculously small apartment. The remainder is spent on food and basic insurance. Not much left, is there? But this is just materialistic shit, right? It's all about love, as you all would know?

 

So, as a less than attractive male, you take your chances on the ever growing online dating scene. Hey, that's weird! No one is responding! I wonder what's going on. After doing some homework, it's easy to see what is happening. There are too many other males to compete with! What do they have that you don't? After some investigating it seems they either have better jobs, are more charming or better looking or aren't as "autistic" as you. According to some women, dating sites are full of autistic males. Reactions like, "*sigh*, plenty of autistic men here" are not uncommon. I hope it doesn't seem I'm implying autism is a bad thing, because I'm not. It just baffles me how easily men are deemed autistic because they don't "get" women. Oh well, at least you made the effort to give me a reply, and supposedly something to work on...

 

Life can be pretty bleak when you don't have that edge over your peers. Talking about these things, though.. It mostly gets you nowhere. It will certainly not earn you much respect. Many women say how they love it when men are open and speak what weighs on their heart, but in truth, men who do so are often perceived as sub-standard. Making oneself vulnerable may be brave, but sharing the contents of one's heart is often perceived as weak, by other men and women alike. Women simply think you aren't the independent man they're looking for, which is totally their right. But to say men are calling all the shots in society... They're not. In fact, when it comes to partner selection, it's mostly women who do the choosing today. Men just have to show lots of initiative and always have to be on top of their game. I haven't even started on asexuality yet. Failing to please women will make the best of men end up alone, possibly relieved of a good part of their fortune (this applies to sexual men too, of course).

 

Life is harsh for many of today's men. Just felt like ranting.

 

The thread title does not fit the issues presented.

 

You are talking about men in the so-called developed world, not all men.

 

In the so-called developed world dating, marriage, children, and even sex are not necessities for men or women. Nobody dies from not having a mate and/or not having children. Sex is almost completely recreational--just like trips to the beach, Hawaii vacations, Netflix binges, etc. What constitutes family is now morally, legally and politically defined as almost any household arrangement that has the consent of all adults involved. Even living alone is now considered a lifestyle choice, not an unfortunate set of circumstances.

 

So what if women now have the power in relationships that you say they do? Men have their own new power. For example, fathers now have active roles in their children's development. In the past fathers were probably too busy with protecting and providing to spend a lot of time helping their children grow. Now men say "My wife raised our children by herself" with regret, because it is understood that it does not have to be that way.

 

This is not a man's world. This is a citizen of the Global North's world. The gains that women in post-Industrial societies enjoy have been made at the expense of the overwhelming majority of people--male and female--in the rest of the world. Women in the U.S. now graduate from medical school at higher rates than men? Well, we would not even have those medical schools if we did not first conquer the New World. Meanwhile, speaking of online dating, have you noticed how many of those women you say "do the choosing" like to talk about and/or post pictures of their vacations in places that were once indigenous settlements and are now resorts for affluent Westerners?

 

We are supposed to believe that men, with their testosterone, Y chromosomes or whatever else we have come up with to attribute moral inferiority to them, have murdered the Earth and its inhabitants while women, oppressed and powerless to stop any of it, watched in horror. So now that women in the Global North are liberated we see them in great numbers working to repair the damage and correct injustices from men's oppressive patriarchal reign of terror? That is not what I see. I see the overwhelming majority of women indulging in the spoils of conquest and blaming men born long after that conquest for every past and present horror. I see most women who speak up playing the misogyny card in a political game rather than showing empathy and compassion when contemporary men try to raise consciousness of their problems, such as high suicide rates and shorter life expectancy than women.

 

Of course, there are women in the Global North who forgo the spoils of conquest and instead dedicate their lives to fighting for those who have suffered from the unprecedented prosperity of a privileged few. But there are also men who do that.

 

It all depends on what kind of world one wants.

 

I would argue that if one wants a world rebuilt around the truth and justice then women have the greater struggle. Not because they are oppressed but because they have invested so much in women's liberation--they have gone so far down one particular path--that reorientation as a class could be a struggle. Women who supported Bernie Sanders in 2016 rather than the female presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, were viciously attacked by feminists. Men may have had most of the power historically, but they have never organized as a class. Therefore, dissent against the root causes of the avoidable suffering in the world may be easier for men.

 

Instead of talking about the struggles of privileged Western men we should be talking about how the good people in the world--male, female, gay, straight, black, white, Western, non-Western, religious, non-religious, etc.--can all organize and mobilize in spite of their differences.

 

Struggle is the one true equal opportunity employer.

[Pandark]

@SkyenAutowegCaptain Thanks. Realizing I can still laugh at myself failing to shed my boyishness I guess I'll be fine for now.

 

7 hours ago, InDefenseOfPOMO said:

Instead of talking about the struggles of privileged Western men we should be talking about how the good people in the world--male, female, gay, straight, black, white, Western, non-Western, religious, non-religious, etc.

If we should all work together, then we should all be heard.

 

7 hours ago, InDefenseOfPOMO said:

It all depends on what kind of world one wants.

Absolutely. I don't want a world where I'm forced to deal with all kinds of restrictive social constructs that make me work for a society in which I'm a total stranger. For example, having to pay 60% of my income on a ridiculously small living space is just me working for the housing corporation. Even if I manage to get some land, as soon as I start building the goverment will come to stop me. I can either pay a ridiculous sum I don't have to some corporation to get some of the monopolized land where I'm allowed to build or I can pay rent to the same bloody corporation. My problem is that the government is protecting the corporation at the expensive of civilians' freedom. Sure, they have to maintain some kind of order, but there are much simpler solutions to this where both civilians and corporations maintain their liberties. Just an idea: urbanization is the trend, right? Rather than protecting the monopolists the government could just buy up/maintain a ring of unused agricultural land around every city, to sell to civilians at a fair price to build on. They wouldn't even need to lose money on subsidies or anything (they could even gain from it). Besides that, the corporations would have to lower their prices, because they would lose their monopoly. You would think this a good thing, but it's not going to happen and guess why. This is just one example of how I feel kept down. I considered joining Hell's Angels, but apart from wanting liberty I fear we haven't much in common. So here I am, ranting.

[Lucinda]

Have you ever considered boondocking on public lands?

 

Lucinda

[Pandark]

Did that some years ago. It was quite nice. Not going anywhere the next 12 months because obligations but after that I'll definitely do more outdoor stuff.

[uhtred]

A few thoughts:

 

Pepole do not date / get into a relationship with an "average person". The do so with a specific person, so "average" is not as important as it seems.   Personally I have a thing for female nerds.  It doesn't matter at all to me that the majority of men may want women with different characteristics.  My wife is a nerd, and is also attracted to nerds.  We are not competing with the majority of people and don't care. 

 

I think the whole alpha / beta thing is just wrong. Its no how humans work, we are not wolves.  I'm an omicron,  outside the monkey cage looking in.  Its a nice place to be - I suggest moving there.  (and I save a lot of money by not buying truck with big knobbly tires). 

 

Better jobs? Is being an astrophysicist better or worse than being CEO of a company, or a good artist?  Who knows. Who cares.  There is no metric.   

 

If someone is highly competent at something, that is often considered attractive by others. Find something you are good at (which is probably something you enjoy) and do it. 

 

 

[Your friend]

On 8/20/2019 at 2:46 PM, Member114264 said:

(Rolls eyes)

Toxic much?

Everyone has it far better than they realize.

Including you.