For asexuals who have had sex.

[DianeL]

"For a sexual, sex expresses intimacy, but, for an asexual, it compromises it."

This is just how I feel. I can only imagine what it could be like to be in a relationship with another asexual that feels the same way I do. I love holding hands, some kissing, and cuddling alot but that's as far as it goes. I could never be in a relationship where I'd have to have sex now and than.

Diane

[T_Hinker]

*Somebody run go get the paper shredder....QUICK!!!*

*SPEW> DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO*

I agree with everyone about sex being boring. Here's how I would describe it. It is about as much fun as doing laundry or mopping the floor. They are not fun but at least with these things have some nominal reward in that I have a clean floor and clothes. I absolutely HATE watching football but would rather have to sit and watch football once a week than have to have sex or fight about not doing it. At least with watching football, I am not asked to exhaust myself doing degrading things for absolutely no reward but having to wash some more laundry!

I don't have (too much) trouble compromising (resigning myself is more like it)......The problem is in the frequency and the neverendingness of it! I don't have to mop the floor, wash the clothes, clean the bathroom 3 Times a Week! Why must I do THAT 3 times a week?!

I am with Sunset and Helena in what they say about abuse. I think that perhaps asexuals who managed to get through unabused are simply bored. Those of us who have experienced abuse adopt attitudes that color sex in a more negative light even in the best relationship.

In my opinion, sex is the price for companionship. I view everything we do as a couple as simply his version of foreplay; the more things he does with/for me the more reward he is going to expect.

I have had more bad experiences than good ones beginning when I was about 2 years old. There has never been a time in my life when I have not been faced with this 'obligation-insistance-ultimatum-intrusion'. It gets BEYOND old!

I waited as long as I have before bothering to find someone to marry figuring that 'they' would 'outgrow it' or 'get over it'.....I got here and find out that they NEVER do! DAMMM!

NOW I'll have to screw some OLD guy! Oh, it just gets better and better, don't it! And THEN there's Viagara!

Chiaroscuro please explain to me WHY: If he can't get it up> He Still feels that he HAS TO!!! Why can't he just say, "oh well, it don't come up anymore> And let it go!> NOOO! He's hell bent! Viagara time!

I have now been divorced for 16 years. It's been 11 years since my last 'real' relationship and 3 years since my last 3 month mistake. I have a zero batting average for getting a 3rd date. Then I found AVEN and now understand that the longer I go without 'having to' have sex, the more I dread it. I'm pretty sure this is what these potential suitors are picking up from me (body language) explaining the lack of 3rd dates.

[Chiaroscuro]

Chiaroscuro please explain to me WHY: If he can't get it up> He Still feels that he HAS TO!!! Why can't he just say, "oh well, it don't come up anymore> And let it go!>

I can't explain that, not being in the viagra-zone myself yet. I'll report back when I get there.

Look, the bottom line is that sexuals and asexuals need DIFFERENT things from their partners. Neither is "correct" for needing what they need, and neither is a monster either. The anger and disappointment that both sides of the divide are feeling is a result of differing expectations. Sexuals can't imagine a partner not feeling what they feel (and vice versa). The same outrage is heard on the sexual side, believe me. It comes from ignorance... from not being here talking to you folks. So I understand the rage, I really do. As a sexual person, I get it. I'm married to it! I love my wife, so there's some resolution she and I have to come to to bridge the gap between our different needs. What that is we haven't worked out yet. But I don't blame her for being who she is, and I hope she doesn't blame me.

-Chiaroscuro

[SilentClips]

You know when does pleasing someone else become hurting yourself to be something your not. If that makes sense?

this is something i've been toying with a lot lately myself.

[starrysky]

I've made the comparison, with Sunset, my wife, that not being able to have sex with your beloved is like being not able to cuddle your dog. Can you imagine having a pet and not being able to touch it? Every time you tried to, it would snarl and snap at you. You could show the dog your love by feeding it, taking it for walks, speaking kindly to it... but the ability to stroke its fur, kiss its snout... all of that was prohibited. It feels like that. Only more powerful :)

Hmmm that analogy is actually something I can relate to... thank you for the insight!

[vits3k]

Speaking as an A...

The "sexual attracted to an asexual" scenario always reminds me of those news stories where a moose or elephant seal falls in love with a (somewhat bemused) cow, and hangs around outside the fence moo-ing, lowing and pining.

I hasten to add that humans are NOT the same, and equitable and highly rewarding relationships can be worked out.

But the basic scenario always makes me want to say, "Dude, wrong species. The ones you want are over there."

* Patiently waiting for the Vulcan Gene to complete its sweep of the globe *

[Chiaroscuro]

But the basic scenario always makes me want to say, "Dude, wrong species. The ones you want are over there."

Ha ha! The idea that asexuals and sexuals are like different species is nearly right, I think. A more accurate parallel for me is homosexuality vs. heterosexuality. Nobody expects a homosexual man to fall for a woman. That's understood. The feelings are just not there.

Asexuality is more confusing than homosexuality for a couple of reasons. The primary one is that it hasn't been "branded" as a lifestyle as thoroughly as homosexuality has been. So most people (sexual and asexual alike), don't know it exists. That causes a lot of self-doubt on both sides.

The second thing is that, once you identify asexuality as a sexual preference, it avoids a clear definition. Some asexuals are trauma victims for whom sex is horrifying. Some are "wired" asexually, and sex is something they can't understand. There seem to be people for whom germs is an issue.

So homosexuality is easy to understand. Asexuality is much harder to classify, even once you admit that it exists as an orientation. But from my point of view, Asexuality is as strong and implacable as Homosexuality, and should be approached in a similar way. No fair-minded person thinks a gay person can be "changed" into a straight one. Asexuality is harder to grapple with, because asexuals have so many different feelings about sex, but the underlying difference between the asexual and sexual communities needs to be understood and respected... as different, not better or worse.

-Chiaroscuro

[oneofthesun]

The "sexual attracted to an asexual" scenario always reminds me of those news stories where a moose or elephant seal falls in love with a (somewhat bemused) cow, and hangs around outside the fence moo-ing, lowing and pining.

There are a lot of stories like that??

[vits3k]

The "sexual attracted to an asexual" scenario always reminds me of those news stories where a moose or elephant seal falls in love with a (somewhat bemused) cow, and hangs around outside the fence moo-ing, lowing and pining.

There are a lot of stories like that??

My favorite is the elephant seal in NZ who came back every mating season for 10 years, all noisy and proprietary about a herd of cows he seemed to feel were his harem.

Fortunately, I think he didn't like the fence, and so stayed out of the paddock. I am both horrified and amused to think what might have happened otherwise...

Poor guy :(

* Wonders how one goes about suggesting alternatives to a multi-ton bull elephant seal with amour on his mind *

[Helena]

Ha ha! The idea that asexuals and sexuals are like different species is nearly right, I think. A more accurate parallel for me is homosexuality vs. heterosexuality. Nobody expects a homosexual man to fall for a woman. Asexuality is much harder to classify, even once you admit that it exists as an orientation. But from my point of view, Asexuality is as strong and implacable as Homosexuality, and should be approached in a similar way. No fair-minded person thinks a gay person can be "changed" into a straight one.

-

I Sooo agree I'm sick of having to change just because everyone else is sexual...

[pickles.]

The thing that puzzles me, reading this thread (and others on Aven), is the experience of sex as boring. I understand revulsion, or fear, or disgust, but I don't really understand boring (or more specifically why something that is just boring is such a line-in-the-sand between sexuals and asexuals). I do many things with my wife that I find boring. I enjoy being with her though, so the boring-ness is diminished. If sex is just boring, it strikes me that there's room for compromise there.

The boringness of sex can feel quite different from the boringness of other things because your partner (usually) is hoping you will be quite involved. Moaning, writhing, groaning with pleasure--you know the drill.

And, yes, it's no fun to play poker with those who show little enthusiasm either, but other activities don't seem to have the same expectations riding on them as sex does. Sex is the big whammy.

--T

[Helena]

Yeah if you say nothing they go whats wrong then you have to fake it and make a big old seen about it like a television show. It's just sad like putting on a show like a dancing dog.

[Chiaroscuro]

The boringness of sex can feel quite different from the boringness of other things because your partner (usually) is hoping you will be quite involved. Moaning, writhing, groaning with pleasure--you know the drill.

What if you told your partner this? That sex is fine, but you're not going to be moaning, writhing and groaning the whole time? If the big problems is that your expectations differ, it seems you could try to get everyone on the same page.

Understand, I say this from the perspective of a (nearly) 16 year old marriage. I can see where it would be more difficult coming to this sort of arrangement with someone you've known for a few weeks or months.

-Chiaroscuro

[Seattleoutsider]

I think some people get their feelings hurt if you tell them you're bored or you find something revolting about their sex organs even if you explain its just not them. They don't get that you can love them, want to be close to them but you're just not into sex with them if they don't have the same feelings towards sex.

I found it difficult to say anythin and when I finally said something.to my last partner I am not sure if I hurt his feelings or not but he definitely witdrew from me and found someone else.

[Chiaroscuro]

I think some people get their feelings hurt if you tell them you're bored or you find something revolting about their sex organs even if you explain its just not them. They don't get that you can love them, want to be close to them but you're just not into sex with them if they don't have the same feelings towards sex.

I found it difficult to say anythin and when I finally said something.to my last partner I am not sure if I hurt his feelings or not but he definitely witdrew from me and found someone else.

It's funny. Knowing what I know now, I don't know how I'd initiate a new relationship. It seems like one of the first conversations would have to be about how sex is percieved by both of us. Is it distasteful? Is it no big thing? Is it very important? Since sex seems to be such a deal-breaker, it seems that it should be one of the first things discussed, (as your example here points out... you brought it up, he walked).

But our culture makes that really difficult. Sex isn't something men and women talk about (except jokingly). It's assumed up-front that everyone's heterosexual and interested. It's part of the social fabric.

And complicating things, a lot of people don't KNOW what their sexual orientation is. In my case, my wife didn't know she hated sex until we were 10 years into the marriage. I don't know what the answer is, but if I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to invest a lot of time in a relationship that wasn't workable right from the start. It's not fair to anyone involved.

-Chiaroscuro

[T_Hinker]

I am not sure if I hurt his feelings or not but he definitely witdrew from me and found someone else.

Seattleoutsider is quite right. Just about everything a man does is usually a reflection of his attitude towards sex. His materialism (car), his job, his personality, his choice of wife.

Men have more than their conscious choices tied up in their attitudes about sex. It's primordial, see any psychology reference and sooner or later they state that the male is out to 'spread his seed'. (Present company excepted Sir)

You can toss out all his old furniture when you begin cohabitation, he'll put up a fight about that 20 year old college sweatshirt but give it up, but don't MESS with his URGES! "Hey! There's another one of YOU right down the street (he says to himself)"

[T_Hinker]

Chiaroscuro,

I'm picturing how that would work..."Hi, I'm a horndog. Are you a nymphomaniac? Good ta meet ya. Now, let's see if we get along!"

I think every female who was more conservative that an outright nympho would be left in the dust because the males who also had less drive would never admit it. He'd fear not being 'manly' enough!

[Chiaroscuro]

Chiaroscuro,

I'm picturing how that would work..."Hi, I'm a horndog. Are you a nymphomaniac? Good ta meet ya. Now, let's see if we get along!"

Ha ha! Sure, the horndogs and nymphomanics of the world have to get together somehow! Like I said, I have no idea how one would bring it up. Something I was thinking about re: another thread, was how do homosexuals identify one another? A gay guy can't just go up to a Horndog and ask him to go out, he'll get thrown off a building. So how is it done? Is there some way for non-homosexuals to self-identify? It seems silly at this point to just assume that the cute guy across the street is heterosexual/sexual.

I think every female who was more conservative that an outright nympho would be left in the dust because the males who also had less drive would never admit it. He'd fear not being 'manly' enough!

Come on, all you male asexuals! This isn't true is it?

Oh, and from my own experience, my wife was never in the nymphomaniac catagory, but I never left her in the dust (and believe me, I don't have "less" drive). :?

-Chiaroscuro

[T_Hinker]

I think the gays do it with adornments. I know at one time it was done with a hanky hanging out of the left rear pocket then it was an earring in the left ear. I was going to design a rainbow ring and went on the web to look it up recently and found that rainbows (and this ring) are a symbol for gays. People tell me that there are many gays in this small town, I look around and I cannot spot them. In big cities they stand out. Not here!

Now that the internet is coming together, I hope that if we can get noticed as a group, there can be a 3rd choice for orientation. I have begun putting ads with that in the first line. See my posts under the topic; Prevalence of Asexuals. (near 'most recent')

[Chiaroscuro]

Now that the internet is coming together, I hope that if we can get noticed as a group, there can be a 3rd choice for orientation. I have begun putting ads with that in the first line. See my posts under the topic; Prevalence of Asexuals. (near 'most recent')

What better place to come up with the Asexual Adornments than Aven? Headbands? No, too sixties. Come on, one of you start a thread. You can change the world!

-Chiaroscuro

[Hallucigenia]

I think every female who was more conservative that an outright nympho would be left in the dust because the males who also had less drive would never admit it. He'd fear not being 'manly' enough!

Come on, all you male asexuals! This isn't true is it?

*injects a more cheerful note into the discussion* It's not always true, no.

Without launching into a vast TMI... I'm dating a guy who's sexual but not excessively so (which is how I interpreted your "more conservative than an outright nympho" categorization) and is totally open and honest about that, so I would know.

(And I wouldn't have it any other way! :P)

[Hallucigenia]

(Double post because I didn't see Chiaroscuro's previous comment)

There have been some attempts to come up with asexual adornments in the past - everything from black hematite rings on the middle finger to tweed to little pendants and keychains with the AVEN symbol on them. However, not every asexual is comfortable adorning themselves that way. Some feel that it's discriminatory or awkward.

[T_Hinker]

If we could come up with an agreeable adornment. I could get them at cost and with quantity discounts. Or I could make them.

I did think of the black ring but thought it would be the perfect 'Divorced' ring!

[pickles.]

What if you told your partner this? That sex is fine, but you're not going to be moaning, writhing and groaning the whole time?

How 'bout, "Honey, you don't mind if I knit, do you?"

[ghosts]

Eh, I'm not too interested in any adornments, but obviously everyone else is free to wear one. ;)

[secretstar]

I have had sex with one partner a handful of times. It did not feel right and if anything it solidified the perception in my mind that I am asexual.

It is not that I find sex disgusting like some, but I do feel disinterested and boring. The best word is it feels hollow to me.

[Chiaroscuro]

It is not that I find sex disgusting like some, but I do feel disinterested and boring. The best word is it feels hollow to me.

Hollow is an interesting description. Can you go into some detail?

This also makes me wonder about how much the who/when/how element applies in sex. I've had some awful sexual encounters. I've had some very boring sexual encounters. I've had some where, for whatever reason, my head wasn't in the game, and I was watching like a detatched third person. I've had the mood die in the middle, and felt I had to keep up the act to not embarass my partner.

But I've had wonderful sex too. It makes me wonder how I would feel about it if I hadn't.

-Chiaroscuro

[T_Hinker]

This also makes me wonder about how much the who/when/how element applies in sex. I've had some awful sexual encounters. I've had some very boring sexual encounters. I've had some where, for whatever reason, my head wasn't in the game, and I was watching like a detatched third person. I've had the mood die in the middle, and felt I had to keep up the act to not embarass my partner.

Now imagine that was every time. You don't think that after a while, you'd get 'bored'? You know what's coming and you know it's going to be a while before it's over and you know that she isn't going to give it up until she's finished. How long before you lost interest all together knowing it was going no-where!

What if you got to that point but she 'needed' her thrice weekly 'fix'![/b]

[secretstar]

The thing is I do not have a sexual drive at all. The reason it felt hollow is not because of the person I was having sex with, but rather because the sex itself was an empty act to me. It is really hard to explain, but the only way I can describe it is it felt hollow.

[T_Hinker]

Secretsar,

Hollow as in: Why am I doing this? What am I supposed to be getting out of it? I was feeling SO in love with you and it makes you HAVE to do this? ARE you through yet?