Is a Modern Day Tiananmen Looming in Hong Kong?

[Skycaptain]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-cathay-pacific/cathay-pacific-airways-ceo-rupert-hogg-resigns-amid-mounting-chinese-scrutiny-idUKKCN1V60S1

 

This is one of many articles on the issue 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, SkyenAutowegCaptain said:

 

This is one of many articles on the issue

The link is broken for me, but wound up looking into it. 

 

I hadn't heard about this, but what makes it surprising is the fact this is a private company based in Hong Kong. Truly showcases how far reaching Beijing's influence and power is.

[Skycaptain]

If it's Chinese then Beijing always have an influence. Its why Huawei aren't trusted by western security services. 

 

So far as Cathay Pacific go China would sooner take them down than lose face. They can just use Air China to replace them (and as that is, so far as I'm aware, government owned they'd prefer that

[Guest]

Crazy. 

 

The protests are showing no signs of stopping. A mass protest is planned for tomorrow according to my friends there. This one may turn quite violent as the volume expected is quite large. 

 

However they are calling for a mass peaceful protest, so hopefully that is how it remains. 

 

It's to the point for them just to head out, they must avoid certain colors to be worn or risk assault, arrest or tear gas strikes o_O

 

Am I ever glad I didn't prebook a vacation there for September.

 

A lot of my clothes are black so I would likely inadvertently become a sitting target. 

[Guest]

I think China is starting to chomp at the bit to intervene. Will be curious to see whether they ever make a concession vs risk catastrophic economic damage in sending troops over.

[andreas1033]

What the chinese need is brainwave entrainment techs, that calm people to the point, that they are not aggressive.

 

The horrible uk gov, has this now.

 

They use the mobile phone network in london as a massive array, to use it for brainwave entrainment, to clam people down, whom want to riot in london.

 

It was first activated in 2011, with the london riots, that were instigated by the gov, to test these techs, the year before london held the olympics. The london riots in 2011, were set up to test these techs, and its what calmed down the population of london.

 

This is the sort of thing china needs to do, to clam down the situation there.

 

The horrible uk gov stole these ideas from someone, whom has lived with there targeting for 27 years, like they steal everything from him.

 

The uk gov laughs at the french gov, whom do not have these techs. While the french are forever this year dealing with those protestors, while the uk gov laughs.

 

For people that do not know, uk gov now uses the mobile phone network as a massive array of energy to use when they want to clam down people, and keep them calm, in potential moments of unrest. They assume these techs will stop any rioting, or anger, in such scenarios as brexit thing.

 

This is the sort of thing china needs to deal with the hong kong protests, and the only way gov can stop protests really, or rioting.

 

This is the only real way to deal with protesting today.

 

Like i said, the vile uk gov stole these ideas from someone they violate. The techs work, and the uk gov laughs at the french this year having there problems, and the way the french do not have these techs.

 

Its the way of the future to control protesting.

 

Ie to calm down areas, with brainwave entrainment techs, using the mobile phone masks as one big energy array.

 

Of course these techs could also cause anger, but for purposes of controlling rioters, they can also emit a freq to keep people calm, and relaxed. lol

 

This is the only real way to deal with riots and protests in 21st century.

[Skycaptain]

Believe that, and you'll believe Boris Johnson wants to abandon Brexit 

[Guest]

On 8/19/2019 at 6:56 AM, andreas1033 said:

What the chinese need is brainwave entrainment techs, that calm people to the point, that they are not aggressive.

 

Or put more fluoride in the water system and state it's for "dental care". 

 

Its obviously a working chemical in Prozak and is used in our society. 

 

I don't think you can calm a crowd that angry other than talking to them about their grievances. 

 

People are willing to die for their freedom. I gladly would for mine.

 

So either you create a massive blood bath, or get down to business at the bargaining table.

 

They have made a promise to talk, but I don't think it will kill any movement until there are actual concessions put in place. 

 

They said the extradition bill couldn't be terminated due to "technicalities". 

 

Not elaborating. Its almost like they forget that this is a free society, and that people don't have media access to further read on an issue vs what you control and feed to it. 

[andreas1033]

16 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't think you can calm a crowd that angry other than talking to them about their grievances.

I disagree.

 

One way to stop people acting mad, is to microwave them. This will impact areas of the brain, thats associated with anger, and such things. This would calm anyone down, and this is one way they protect top secret military bases, to make sure people or crowds cannot get close. Microwaving people or crowds, would give them headaches, and depending on how powerful, will give them small migraine to massive headache.

 

Microwaving anyone, would stop them acting mad, or with anger. As it hits the part of the brain, associated with that behaviour, and numbs it in effect.

 

You will find in many bad areas of big cities, local gov, are microwaving in small amounts these areas, to limit the madness of the population. Top secret military bases will have microwave weapons, to stop people or crowds going near them.

 

But its also a way for gov, and military to be able to deny the techs exist.

 

You ever see those collars you get for dogs. Its like these, they give of an energy, that numbs the area of the brain, which when the dog is barking, is energised. The collar, effectively numbs this area, meaning the dog does not bark. This is how these collars work.

 

So behaviour modification works.

 

But remember with these things, there will be freq that when targeted at humans, will cause anger. But there will also be freq that will cause people to be calm.

 

Like i said, the chinese need to work out which freq causes calmness in people, and they can control the situation like this.

 

For every emotion you feel, an area of the brain has to be energised. How does the brain get triggered? Which energy will trigger what emotion? You can be sure gov know that long ago, its just needs to be put into operation. Like i said the mobile phone network already exist, and it can be used as a massive array, and can easily be used for behaviour modification.

 

There will be some freq that causes people to be calm. Enough said.

 

Nature uses behaviour modification, and always has done, but humans do not notice it.

[Skycaptain]

On a more serious note it has transpired the the Chinese have arrested a UK consular official and held them for two weeks. This is not a positive development 

 

[andreas1033]

2 minutes ago, SkyenAutowegCaptain said:

it has transpired the the Chinese have arrested a UK consular official and held them for two weeks. This is not a positive development 

 

The chinese would be right to assume, uk, and usa are egging on the protests.

 

So whats wrong with this news, if true?

[Skycaptain]

It is an escalation. A consular official is part of, or attached to the diplomatic corps. This was a member of the British civil service in China on official business, not some random tourist who'd photographed a piece of military equipment for example. Britain especially, has not been egging on the protesters, because, as I posted earlier, we're desperate to keep China sweet. That's why we've not publically condemned the Chinese reaction, why our response to the allegations against Huawei are much more reticent than the Americans

[andreas1033]

9 minutes ago, SkyenAutowegCaptain said:

It is an escalation.

Thats your interpretation.

 

The chinese have a right to target anyone they think are pushing these things. We know uk ran hong kong, and its likely never gave up total power over there.

 

So one would assume the chinese think the uk gov, is driving this as well as the americans.

[Knight of Cydonia]

There were pro-Hong Kong protests here in Vancouver this weekend. Naturally, anti-democracy Chinese counter-protesters showed up in response.

 

I can't help but find it so ironic that the Chinese contingent was utilizing Canadian freedom of speech and freedom of assembly to protest people in Hong Kong wanting freedom and freedom of speech.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, andreas1033 said:

Microwaving people or crowds, would give them headaches, and depending on how powerful, will give them small migraine to massive headache.

I hope you do realize that Hong Kong has freedom of press. 

 

The globe finding out this is how China handles it's people, would hurt their standing as a G8 nation. 

 

This would clearly be a violation of their human rights, in a part of the country where those said rights are enforced. 

 

Harming people to silence, vs serving them like a real leader would in a democratic or near democratic state would be no different than throwing further oil on a dying fire. 

 

There was a recent peaceful protest. 

 

Another is being planned this weekend. The peaceful nature of them is expected to attract near record crowds this weekend. 

 

They also encourage even more to join. 

 

You have a peaceful crowd, and this is your timing to discuss. 

 

Use of force is utterly unacceptable and China knows this, which is why they have patiently waited. 

[Guest]

Carrie Lam is a puppet for Beijing and looks as inept in resolving this, as Donald Trump does in fixing any immigration issues in his country. 

[Guest]

Beijing is ramping up the pressure on Hong Kong, but its hard to gauge how likely they are to order troops into Hong Kong. 

 

It would bring carnage if they did, as they would not back down in the name of human rights. 

 

Carrie Lam invited protesters to sit down and talk, already aware nobody would have the guts to show their face in doing so, due to the risk they would be taking on their safety. Main reason so many order masks anonymously via websites like Amazon to avoid detection, which could result in your arrest and charges for up to 10 years in jail. 

 

I have already see a group of police rush an individual (when I was last there right before the protests) and they are a prominent sight in the shopping districts, showcasing you that while you are in a democratic part of China that there are still some communist ties that are very visible in the country. 

 

I know someone who was rushed by cops and thrown in a police truck for littering. This comes with a jail sentence of up to 6 months if caught. 

[Guest]

Beijing is systematically eroding at the rights of the people. 

 

I heard one say, that to destroy a country, you must start "with their language". 

 

Essentially a greater part of their identity.

 

Cantonese as a result is the language of Hong Kong, but propaganda pushing Mandarin onto the children is already being seen. 

 

This, along with curriculums being told to show the benefit of the new system. 

 

Definitely a very ugly scene in the making. 

 

However with the school year looming, expect the bulk of this movement to lose its momentum.  

 

Something Beijing is likely betting on.

[andreas1033]

58 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Beijing is systematically eroding at the rights of the people.

I do not believe that. Controlling 1.4 billion people is no easy task, when you have usa, and or uk trying to cause problems.

 

China has to work with controlling this massive population, while leaving them enough of some freedoms, while usa, and or uk are causing problems in population centres to do with china.

 

Thats no small task, as usa, or uk interfering, they do not care who they exploit to cause problems for there adversaries.

 

I doubt there is anyone in china, that has had less privacy then me, in last 27 years. Being a target of uk/usa surveillance to ruin my life.

 

So just as bad things happen to people living in uk, or usa, or anywhere in nato, which has usa underground bases all over nato, dominating these countries, and dictating to them.

 

For anyone that thinks running a place with 1.4 billion is easy, while both usa, and uk are trying to cause problems, then you are very naive to the world, and what these countries do.

 

There is no perfect society.

 

America after 911, disappeared loads around the world, just for being anti american. That does not justify any other countries actions, but it shows how usa are hypocrites, and uk too.

[Skycaptain]

Britain is doing nothing because we daren't, we're so in hock to the Chinese that they almost tell us what to do, more than the USA 

[ben8884]

4 hours ago, SkyenAutowegCaptain said:

Britain is doing nothing because we daren't, we're so in hock to the Chinese that they almost tell us what to do, more than the USA 

Also Britain really can't do anything. Britain is on the other side of the world whereas the Chinese army is right there. This was sort of made clear to Thatcher when she tried to negotiate keeping the island of Hong Kong in the 1980s.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, andreas1033 said:

I do not believe that. Controlling 1.4 billion people is no easy task

China does a better job controlling that volume of people, than the US does far less people.

 

Fear, propaganda, and early indoctrination are highly effective.

 

16 hours ago, andreas1033 said:

I doubt there is anyone in china, that has had less privacy then me, in last 27 years.

I'd like to disagree:

 

Spoiler

 

 

With smart cameras throughout the country, many of which that have face detection capabilities, and many other high tech means of meticulously monitoring people, there isn't a place in the world that is more heavily monitored than in China.

 

Its the same concept of a bank often having a monitor at the entrance letting you know you're being watched. Or some train stations having mirrors, near the end of the platforms (for those wanting to kill themselves).

 

Its psychologically proven. In knowing you are being watched, your behavior dramatically changes.

 

Russia, China and North Korea and similar states have varying degrees of such control, but are highly effective.

 

Good luck finding a major protest in mainland China.

 

[Guest]

China is applying pressure systematically.

 

One of the leaders of an upcoming protest who was barred the permit to do so was viciously beaten by thugs with bats and knives a couple days ago. They didn't kill him, as this was clearly sending a message. It's far more effective if he can deliver it himself. 

 

School starts next week for many students. The bulk of the protesters, which is why China is betting heavily on the momentum dying as of then. Some chinese political leaders have even mentioned this publicly. 

 

Some are planning a mass walk out, which likely will see China apply maximum pressure to the schools who allow it. 

 

They are essentially making it clear.

 

Facilitate the protesters and you will be heavily punished. 

 

Lam also made it clear a couple days ago. There will be zero concessions. 

 

Something has got to give, and it will not be the iron resolve that China is reputed for.   

 

The true tipping point where things are at a no return point (where you buckle and make concessions or make them buckle and quit by lethal force) will be when someone directly gets killed as a result to an officer using lethal force. 

 

They are going out of their way to avoid it but with tensions its only a matter of time before such a mistake occurs. 

 

What Beijing is underestimating, is the power of freedom and that many in Hong Kong were born with such liberties. Many are gladly willing to die for them. 

 

I have only known a free Hong Kong and was looking to open a business there down the road. 

 

Many foreigners will invest elsewhere should those very liberties that attracted them disappear.

[LeChat]

😔 What a mess all of this is...

 

About school starting--I'm not sure whether that would stop the protestors. This recent interview with a few Hong Kong citizens had a couple of young people who mentioned that some of the protestors go to work, school, etc., then go protest, afterwards.

 

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/28/20799049/hong-kong-protests-first-person

[Guest]

15 hours ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

I'm not sure whether that would stop the protestors.

This is what Beijing is betting on. We will know next week. 

 

The momentum will either be hampered, or will die according to them from that point onwards. 

 

I mean, you walk through Hong Kongs business districts and can't help to see the major foreign business influence. You just look up. The skyscrapers with foreign name brands show that China has a lot to lose in intervening. 

 

I can only speak for myself. I would refuse to open a business in a place where free speech would be systematically snuffed out. 

 

What is happening to Cathay, is a wake up call to who calls shots there.

 

Where me having an opinion could get me thrown in jail or killed. 

 

It being a tax free haven that facilitates business and investment, isn't enough to offset those perks.

[Guest]

Disclaimer. Below is the subway scene yesterday sure to bring international condemnation (scenes are violent, but this is the least violent of them) - should this be against TOS please delete and my apologies but this or similar needs to ramp up international pressure:

 

Spoiler

 

 

With tensions this high and further protests planned, something will have to give. Lam is backed into a corner. Anger her bosses in Beijing and interests, or Hong Kong. 

 

Beijing was seen having some of their top soldiers used for crowd control interventions in other high tension hostile regions doing drills near the Hong Kong bordering city of Shenzhen. 

 

Propaganda at first, but the more serious these protests get, the closer Hong Kong is getting to a declared martial law state. 

 

This would be ugly and deadly. 

 

More due to the freedom of press Hong Kong enjoys, making it a little more difficult to do so without millions of eyes witnessing it. Possibly the only thing that is stopping them.

 

Some of my friends there are scrambling to come back to Canada, looking for work in Taiwan and South Korea or panicking fearing that imminent threat of martial law being declared which is looming according to many. 

 

Such a shame. One of the most beautiful places I have been to. By far one of the freest in South east Asia. 

 

With 156 years of freedom and the rule of law, I just don't know how one adjusts to communist dictatorship. 

 

This will cripple its economy as foreign businesses will leave in droves. 

 

Chinese intervention would crush it.

[Sally]

On 8/15/2019 at 11:01 AM, Perspektiv said:

I don't think China would be this foolish, having spent decades growing in influence and in standing as a global leader. 

 

China is not a global leader; it's a global owner.  As the latter, they don't have to care about how they are seen.  

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Sally said:

China is not a global leader; it's a global owner.  As the latter, they don't have to care about how they are seen.  

Correct. But killing civilians would cause international condemnation which could result in crippling sanctions being administered. 

 

It also would cause foreign investors to leave in droves.

 

They may not care, but aren't foolish enough to overlook the damage they would do to themselves hence their deciding to stand down. 

[Skycaptain]

China has made a concession. They've officially scrapped the extradition bill which started this. Cynical me says that it probably means they've found another way to detain those they want to detain. But, hopefully, it may calm things down 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, SkyenAutowegCaptain said:

But, hopefully, it may calm things down

Sadly, is very doubtful. 

 

People are still angry. Carrie Lam waited this long, and amplified the anger of the people. 

 

Ever see an angry customer with a single demand? Many even highly reasonable. 

 

Give them the run around, and they now want a fix to their issue, free stuff, a letter of apology and likely giving you a star on Google along with a scathing letter to the head office. 

 

People are still demanding for her to step down as she created this mess. 

 

Doubled down on her refusal to do anything and antagonized the protesters vs attempting to find a solution when the demand simple initially. 

 

Albeit she in a tough spot (she can't go against those who elected her, yet can't afford to infuriate Hong Kongers as this causes economic pressure which comes back to her).

 

They are still demanding an inquisition of the brutal use of excessive force by police. See the video above.

 

These demands are unwavering due to her out of touch silence due to the protests. 

 

There are more protests in the works. 

Here's to hoping they remain peaceful if so, considering the concession that made. 

 

With the heavy youth movement, that is unpredictable. 

 

Hopefully this takes the momentum away, but I see more of the same this upcoming weekend. 

 

She's broken the trust of the people.

 

People have respect for the authority of the police. She even damaged that trust.

 

Many police officers speaking anonymously made it clear. They were doing their jobs, but that the sentiment is that the government was at fault for the chaos.

 

She has to do more to earn it back. 

 

Many are saying "too little too late". 

 

Like giving the death penalty to an inmate then years later declaring him innocent and clearing his name. 

 

Good luck weathering the blistering anger of that person's family with "look. You wanted his name to be cleared. Here you go."