What if my partner isn't willing to compromise/meet half-way?

[everywhere and nowhere]

5 hours ago, Sally said:

No, I don't often do it.  In fact, I just decided that for once, I want to present the asexual  equivalent (and it is an equivalent) to the sexual saying that they can't stay in a relationship where there's no  sex.  I decided that because what's usually presented is the difficulty that sexuals have with having no sex, and everyone understands that, and feels sympathy for the sexual.  (That includes me.)   But hardly ever does anyone see that asexuals who have sex deserve some sympathy also.  It's as though since sex is the "default" in relationships, not having it is unusual enough to gain sympathy, just because sexuals are in the majority.  But every asexual who has sex that they don't want deserves just as much sympathy.  Having sex you don't want can be emotionally difficult, and often physically difficult, just as not having sex is for a sexual.  

That's it.

I, at least, openly admit feeling unhappy with the impression that most asexuals in mixed relationships have sex. Because I'm personally sex-averse, the idea of having sex feels deeply frightening to me, and so I cannot help but ask: are all these people really fine with having sex? I simply doubt it. And I'm an absolute opponent of unwanted sex.

[Philip027]

Quote

Also, there is a disparity on actually leaving. The ace would get all the sympathy as the victim and the sexual would be demonised as breaking up the relationship simply for their base wants.

Maybe on AVEN the ace would get most/all the sympathy.  In the real world?  Yeah no; usually they're the one that faces scorn because they're the atypical one in the relationship.

 

Quote

There is an inequality in the situation, with the sexual at a disadvantage. The ace has complete control. If they don't want sex, sex doesn't happen*.

This doesn't just apply for mixed relationships.  It applies for ANYONE.

 

Just stating this because it's not like two sexual people in a relationship are each going to want sex at all the same times either.  Mismatched libidos happen even in a sexual/sexual relationship.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Serran said:

 

And who would blame the sexual leaving ? Everyone I know would blame the ace for not wanting their partner and tell the sexual they were right to leave and give the sexual all the sympathy.

Um yeahhhh. Even by religious and legal standards, not having sex is the "wrong" position. As a sexual, I'm very well aware that I have the cultural upper hand. No one's going to tssk tssk me for wanting a sexual relationship. 

[uhtred]

I don't think the situation is symmetric, but a mismatched relationship is unhappy for both in different ways.  There is no way to "measure" unhappiness, so the question of which has it worse doesn't mean anything for me. 

 

So this leads to my feeling that it is OK to leave a relationship for any reason someone wants. No need to figure out who was suffering more, just end the suffering if its happening. 

[glyders]

19 hours ago, Philip027 said:

This doesn't just apply for mixed relationships.  It applies for ANYONE.

 

Just stating this because it's not like two sexual people in a relationship are each going to want sex at all the same times either.  Mismatched libidos happen even in a sexual/sexual relationship.

Oh, certainly. There is even the widely held perception that it is the norm for men to want it and women not to (not saying that's true). But where one wants sex and the other doesn't ever want sex this is a very powerful imbalance.

[Sally]

1 minute ago, glyders said:

But where one wants sex and the other doesn't ever want sex this is a very powerful imbalance.

No one -- certainly not asexuals -- has said it isn't.   I as an asexual who had sex to please my partners lived that imbalance.  

[glyders]

On 8/12/2019 at 6:14 AM, Sally said:

But every asexual who has sex that they don't want deserves just as much sympathy.  Having sex you don't want can be emotionally difficult, and often physically difficult, just as not having sex is for a sexual.  

Looks like my long post last night didn't save.

 

The most important bit was expressing complete support for your comment above. For an ace to completely freely choose to give sex to their partner would be a wonderful, selfless act of love. I suspect that whether this is actually possible depends where on the ace spectrum they are.

Alongside that, I can't shift myself from the view that if the sexual deliberately puts any kind of pressure on an ace to have sex then that is straying into an abusive relationship and the one putting the pressure on is both morally and legally guilty.

That leaves a situation where an ace feels they should give sex even though it repulses them. This could be due to perceptions of an outdated social expectation or knowing their partner is unhappy. I guess I don't tend to encounter people who would bow to that pressure.

[glyders]

20 hours ago, Serran said:

And who would blame the sexual leaving ? Everyone I know would blame the ace for not wanting their partner and tell the sexual they were right to leave and give the sexual all the sympathy.

I know there would be huge blame for splitting up the family and hurting the children, whichever one of us left. But I'd be seen as the bigger baddie.

Perhaps it depends on your social circle. I know in mine it would be at best 'couldn't you have just made it work for the children' to me and 'oh you poor thing, weren't you so brave all those years' to her.

[Guest]

The thing that annoys me the most about all of this is that sexuals won't have sex with people they don't fancy. I (as some kind of asexual) have done the whole grit-my-teeth-and-get-on-with-it to make a sexual happy, only to put on weight/cut my hair and have them turn around and say they don't fancy me and go find someone else!

 

My ex husband watched his ex wife give birth, which put him off sex with her. He then said she was having an affair and left her, but i reckon it was only to give him an excuse to leave a wife and 2 year old son (ironically his search for sexual gratification then led him to me)

 

My point is, you will never see a sexual have sex they don't want to please somebody else.

[glyders]

17 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

My point is, you will never see a sexual have sex they don't want to please somebody else.

It is very common, actually. It shouldn't be, but it is. Most women I know well enough to have that kind of conversation with have mentioned times they didn't want sex but their husband did, so they did.

That upset me. Partly at the emotional level of jealousy, but mostly at the intellectual level of outrage.

My feelings are clear: no-one should have sex they don't want. Which is why I don't see compromise as possible if one party genuinely doesn't like sex, as opposed to can take it or leave it.

[Guest]

@glyders it's hard to generalize I guess. Yes, probably a lot of women have sex they don't want because their husbands want it, but I bet if they put on 3 stone the husbands wouldn't return the favour if their wife wanted sex...I've heard men talk about women...(didn't mean to make this gendered, it's just what I have observed sometimes)

[Guest]

3 hours ago, glyders said:

 

My feelings are clear: no-one should have sex they don't want. Which is why I don't see compromise as possible if one party genuinely doesn't like sex, as opposed to can take it or leave it.

I agree. The thought makes me die inside, I can't stand to read the word 'compromise' on here...

[glyders]

1 hour ago, Sea horse said:

didn't mean to make this gendered, it's just what I have observed sometimes

It's a difficult area to touch on.

 

I've never personally heard of it the other way round (I know it can be, just never met any man who said his wife wanted too much sex). 

But then I've never really have close male friends so might just not be having those conversations like I do with women. Also, it would likely be hard for a man to admit to if he was bothered by social assumptions.

 

Of course, there is a big social assumption still surviving that men want it and women don't.

There's lots of evidence that the majority of women's first times were purely to satisfy their boyfriend. There are also statistics showing the biggest reason for men visiting a prostitute is because their wife no longer has sex with them (not sure if that is menopause- related). So that plays into the stereotype.

 

I can see that that would make things particularly difficult in an ace male allo female relationship in terms of extra psychological loading. 

[anisotrophic]

5 hours ago, Sea horse said:

My point is, you will never see a sexual have sex they don't want to please somebody else.

I can and have. I think you're doing a lot of stereotyping of sexuals as bad/abusive people. Sexuals often lose attraction to their ace partner once they understand (if they didn't already understand); there's also a dynamic of sexuals going off sex and the ace partner getting worried about them & their relationship, and maybe that's reasonable, because sexuals typically have a strong connection between sexuality and love.

 

I had sex with a close friend that was strongly attracted to me. I felt no attraction for him, but it was nice to see how happy it made him.

 

I don't regret it. I'm glad I could give him something he wanted. It was also gut-wrenching to realize this was what sex had always been like, for my partner. I don't think it would have been a good idea to be in a relationship with this friend (I had turned him down in this respect years before), unless it were open/poly.

 

Frankly I don't think it's a good idea to attempt to start or persist in mixed ace/allo relationships without open/poly. This  respects the asexual by removing implied pressure to be the "provider" and it respects the sexuals own sexual orientation as they aren't "trapped" in forever losing this fundamental aspect of themselves.

 

I get that not everyone can be ok with open/poly but people try to do this game with a requirement of monogamy and it just seems to suck in all directions.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, glyders said:

 

I can see that that would make things particularly difficult in an ace male allo female relationship in terms of extra psychological loading. 

I think you're right.

 

I don't know about the rest. My brain has gone on strike and refuses to think about it so I just don't know any more..

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

 I think you're doing a lot of stereotyping of sexuals as bad/abusive people. Sexuals often lose attraction to their ace partner once they understand (if they didn't already understand); there's also a dynamic of sexuals going off sex and the ace partner getting worried about them & their relationship, and maybe that's reasonable, because sexuals typically have a strong connection between sexuality and love.

 

I know it might sound like stereotyping but everything I say comes from experiences I've had, or things people have told me. Sometimes I think the world of sexuals is portrayed as much more rosy than it actually is (by sexuals), it's not all loving and consensual, sadly.

I've seen circumstances where in a relationship between two sexuals, one loses attraction for the other (and in my experience it's always been the man) and the man the  sees no point in continuing the relationship because they don't want to have sex with their partner any more. No sex, no point. So they've left. But where they discover the partner is ace there seems to be this idea that it's some kind of special case where they can stay and the ace should have sex with them, and I don't get it.

 

I agree with what you said about mixed relationships I think. 

[glyders]

19 hours ago, Sea horse said:

But where they discover the partner is ace there seems to be this idea that it's some kind of special case where they can stay and the ace should have sex with them, and I don't get it.

I suspect those are the kind of people who would think the same of their partner regardless of them being ace or not.

 

I do get the confusion when a partner comes out as ace. I was the same, though I went through it years before she came out as that happened about 5 years after we were last intimate and 9 after we stopped any semblence of a happy sex life.

First it is they enjoyed sex before, why not now? Then it becomes they were ok with pretending before, why not carry on? Those are natural and acceptable internalisations. What makes the measure of the man, or woman, is what they then say and do. 

[Guest]

Perhaps aces shouldn't say what sexuals experiences are, given they aren't living them ? Just like sexuals shouldn't say aces all have it easy in a sexless relationship with a sexual...

 

I have had a lot of sex I didn't want. And, despite an attraction issue, not left my marriage. 

[Guest]

@glyders that makes sense thank you for explaining 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Serran said:

Perhaps aces shouldn't say what sexuals experiences are, given they aren't living them ? Just like sexuals shouldn't say aces all have it easy in a sexless relationship with a sexual...

That would seem fair...

 

I think it's important to see both sides. 

 

My ex often used to say to me 'what's it like to feel so wanted?' in relation to him wanting sex and me not wanting it. I could never explain to him how bad it felt because it would have sounded really unreasonable. I wonder if I'd known about asexuality before would it have made any difference? Would he have seen me as less cold and manipulative? Because that is how he saw me. As if I deliberately made him feel needy, then made him feel rejected. That then made him aggressive. So it was much easier to have sex immediately than try to get out of it. 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, glyders said:

I suspect those are the kind of people who would think the same of their partner regardless of them being ace or not.

I've been thinking this through in relation to my ex, we didn't know I was ace but had a lot of problems. 

 

I wondered if it would have made a difference, had we known, but I always felt that, for him, the whole function or purpose of the marriage (and me) was sex. It's nice to think that there are other types of (sexual) people. (Edit, I know I'm probably misunderstanding)

[alibali]

1 hour ago, Sea horse said:

That would seem fair...

 

I think it's important to see both sides. 

 

My ex often used to say to me 'what's it like to feel so wanted?' in relation to him wanting sex and me not wanting it. I could never explain to him how bad it felt because it would have sounded really unreasonable. I wonder if I'd known about asexuality before would it have made any difference? Would he have seen me as less cold and manipulative? Because that is how he saw me. As if I deliberately made him feel needy, then made him feel rejected. That then made him aggressive. So it was much easier to have sex immediately than try to get out of it. 

My ex assumed I didn't love him because i didnt want sex, which was not the case. I assumed eventually that he didnt love me as an individual, which was probably also not the case. Now we are divorced we both know we care about each other.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, alibali said:

My ex assumed I didn't love him because i didnt want sex, which was not the case. I assumed eventually that he didnt love me as an individual, which was probably also not the case. Now we are divorced we both know we care about each other.

That's really nice.

 

That probably was how it worked in my relationship too. I understand it a bit better now. He contacted me not very long ago to say he missed me, but that just made me angry because all he did was bitch about me when I was there! So I said, I don't think you do really - to which he replied 'no, I just miss cuddling you'. Which made me even angrier because he doesn't mean cuddling - what I heard was that he only wanted sex from me. So I said something like that, and the whole text conversation ended with him calling me names and me blocking his number.

 

I sort of wish that we could both feel better about it. I don't know if it's worth trying to talk to him, but often he's so angry that his brain is basically not able to take in any new information, or it just adds to his sense of outrage. It might just drag it all up again. 

 

 

[uhtred]

The phrase "have sex they didn't want" covers a very wide range.  It can be sex you are content to have for a partner but you are not particularly in the mood to rape. 

 

I think its not at all uncommon for people to have sex when they are not particularly in the mood but are happy to please their partners.  As long as things are overall balanced, I think that is fine.

 

As the "don't want" becomes stronger, it becomes more of a problem. 

[Sally]

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

As the "don't want" becomes stronger, it becomes more of a problem. 

And that unfortunately does happen over time.  

[Guest]

Having sex when it is not wanted can't really be separated from the 'why' is that happening. There is obviously some external pressure or the person wouldn't be having the sex. How intense is that pressure, where is it on a scale of 'no pressure but want to please them' to 'better do it or they're going to get angrier and angrier and end the day by smashing up my stuff in an unrelated argument that is clearly a result of frustration'/shout at the kids/start drinking too much..? Just as an example. Not speaking from experience or anything...

 

Also the OP contains this line 'I don't want to force her to do something she doesn't want to but...'

[CONFUSED&MARRIED]

I’m married and a lesbian . Me and wife haven’t had sex in 8 months. We talk over and over again about what’s going on . Have tried libido pills and all but we get no where. I don’t bring it up anymore because I don’t want to seem , you know , creepy or

give weird vibes and make her uncomfortable. I’ve googled many many things and this is the first tome I stumbled upon something that’s kind of educating me and hurting me at the same one. A sexless marriage won’t work for me. We’ve been married for a year now but together for 6 years and I came here looking for a compromise . There is no compromise . It’s a lost cause. I don’t want to cheat & I don’t want to leave . We used to have great sex . I just want it back . Can someone become asexual over time ??? I need answers!!!

[PetalsOnTheShamrock]

12 hours ago, CONFUSED&MARRIED said:

Can someone become asexual over time ???

I'm probably not the best person to comment because I'm still working it out myself.  According to what I've read the answer is "yes" - identity is fluid.  Speaking from my experience though, the truth is probably more hurtful. Only recently have I realized I'm probably asexual - I hadn't even know it was a thing until a year ago when I was at a panel at a gaming convention and it was mentioned.  It immediately spoke to me as - OMG, that's me!  It's possible the same is for your wife - that she honestly didn't know.
 

12 hours ago, CONFUSED&MARRIED said:

We used to have great sex .

That's what my husband says.  We've been together for 15 years.  He says "when we do it, you always say it's great, we always have a good time, so I don't understand why you're never in the mood and so resistant to getting in the mood".  (Important context - I haven't told him yet I think I'm asexual, see my thread: Seeking Feedback - a "sex plan" for saving my marriage to a sexual partner).

 

The truth is I've always pretended to like sex because I love him and I want him to feel good.  I don't want to hurt him, and I know that when we have sex, that it would hurt him to know I don't enjoy it - so for our entire marriage I've just faked it.  I'm sure people are going to react very poorly to the fact I've been doing that, but it's the truth.

 

Why you ask?  Because I thought there was something wrong with me.  That I was broken.  That it's my fault I don't like sex.  That I'm not sexually attracted to the man I love - to any man (or anyone).  And because I love him, and know that my pleasure is important to him, I've always felt it was important that I "give him what he needs" - and that included at least occasional sex, and when we had sex - the illusion it was good sex.

But now that I know about asexuality, things are different.  Perhaps I'm not broken, perhaps I'm just different. And I'm deeply regretful I haven't been able to be truthful about my aversion to sex all these years because when I do tell him everything I know it will hurt him immensely.

Please consider this.  Just because your wife may not want to have sex does not mean she doesn't love you deeply.  And it doesn't mean she may not be willing to have sex ever - after all, she married you knowing you are sexual.  It just means you'll need to find something that will work for both of you.  Openness, communication and refraining from blaming one another/leaping to judgement will be key for your conversations.  

 

12 hours ago, CONFUSED&MARRIED said:

There is no compromise . It’s a lost cause.

I'm deeply saddened by this. I truly hope it's not a lost cause.  If it's a lost cause for you, perhaps my husband will think it's a lost cause for my marriage too 😢

[Philip027]

Quote

Please consider this.  Just because your wife may not want to have sex does not mean she doesn't love you deeply.  And it doesn't mean she may not be willing to have sex ever - after all, she married you knowing you are sexual.  It just means you'll need to find something that will work for both of you.  Openness, communication and refraining from blaming one another/leaping to judgement will be key for your conversations.  

The problem, though, is something you've probably already caught on to yourself back during your "faking it" phase -- sexuals typically don't just want sex; they also want their partners to be into them too (that is, not "faking it").  They want their partners to want sex with them, not just be "willing" to do it.

 

To a lot of them, "willing" just isn't very sexy.  This is why even in mixed relationships where the ace is perfectly willing to have sex, there can still be problems in this department.

[PetalsOnTheShamrock]

1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

They want their partners to want sex with them, not just be "willing" to do it.

Yes.  That does seem like "the line".   And no matter what way I look at it, I don't see a way around it - is it simply an incompatibility that can't be overcome?