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Traveler40

“Overwhelming Advice”

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anisotrophic
54 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

I know, I mean that's fine it's just I can hear the views of sexuals aka normal people  all the time...

You don't, actually, hear from "normal" people. It's rare for sexual people to have experienced and discuss what it's like to be loved and not desired by someone they love, the confusing dissonance of never being enough even when everything is good.

 

It's rare for sexual people to introspect and recognize the emotional importance of sex.

 

Furthermore there's sexuals on AVEN that used to identify as asexual. The journeys and things they learned over the years can have lessons for others.

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On 7/26/2019 at 2:34 PM, Winged Whisperer said:

  "damn these selfish asexuals" is a a viewpoint I feel that's rooted in treating them the same as a sexless marriage between sexuals. It's unhealthy and unnecessary and anyone who does this should knock it off.

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6 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

..the confusing dissonance of never being enough even when everything is good.

This is precisely how it feels to be an asexual trying to satisfy a sexual partner.

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On 7/27/2019 at 4:06 AM, anisotrophic said:

You don't, actually, hear from "normal" people. It's rare for sexual people to have experienced and discuss what it's like to be loved and not desired by someone they love

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Telecaster68

And you have all of the rest of AVEN apart from the guess what - Partners, Friends and Allies section - where you'll be relatively unsullied by sexual people and their feelings. Meanwhile, there are even fewer sexual people who've been in relationships with asexuals than there are asexuals, and almost nobody outside that group understands what it's like and this is pretty much the only place we can discuss it with people who do get it. 

 

If you find us annoying, simply use the other 90pc of AVEN instead. 

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anisotrophic
18 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

This is precisely how it feels to be an asexual trying to satisfy a sexual partner.

Yes. The state of being in a mixed relationship is not "normal". Sexuals who have that experience aren't "normal" in that sense.

 

honestly your relationship sounded super sexist and it's alien to me. It didn't sound loving. It sounded entitled, not fundamentally respectful and caring. I wouldn't be attracted to someone that behaved like that that. "everything is good" -- nope your relationship was not good? so you weren't having the experience I describe.

 

when you say "I heard from sexuals because I heard from my toxic ex that I wasn't attracted to" I'm just hearing you map a nasty relationship with a person that wanted sex to "being sexual". It's the same conflation I feel sexual folks make when they decide their partner who doesn't want sex represents "being asexual" -- but it's their bad/toxic relationship, that's what's going on.

 

My partner and I care pretty deeply about each other and love each other and communicate really well. We've been together for a decade and a half and have kids, the sexuality stuff is hard but the most important thing is to feel loved for who we are.

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On 7/27/2019 at 10:58 AM, anisotrophic said:

Yes. The state of being in a mixed relationship is not "normal". Sexuals who have that experience aren't "normal" in that sense.

 

honestly your relationship sounded super sexist and it's alien to me. It didn't sound loving. It sounded entitled, not fundamentally respectful and caring. I wouldn't be attracted to someone that behaved like that that. "everything is good" -- nope your relationship was not good? so you weren't having the experience I describe.

 

when you say "I heard from sexuals because I heard from my toxic ex that I wasn't attracted to" I'm just hearing you map a nasty relationship with a person that wanted sex to "being sexual". It's the same conflation I feel sexual folks make when they decide their partner who doesn't want sex represents "being asexual" -- but it's their bad/toxic relationship, that's what's going on.

 

My partner and I care pretty deeply about each other and love each other and communicate really well. We've been together for a decade and a half and have kids, the sexuality stuff is hard but the most important thing is to feel loved for who we are.

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Serran
12 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

That is such a good point!

Also, it's so true that having sex is not always enough. In my case I never refused but the resentment from my spouse was still there - because as hard as I tried, there was something missing, I wasn't enthusiastic enough or whatever. And how could I know what I was supposed to be feeling/demonstrating when I'd never felt or experienced  it?

My exes used to complain I was "too quiet" or "looked bored". I got told to moan and pretend to be excited about it. 15 years of being told how to do it cause my natural responses didnt satisfy (though, granted, my responses were omg again.. can we not... fine lets get it over with....)

 

Though, I still dont make noise and am pretty... not super animated even now when I like it, so go figure. My current spouse likes it, cause she finds all the noises fake and annoying. :lol:

 

I think what it boils down to is actually people want what they want. And if you dont match it, they will never be happy.

 

My ex ended up with some 20 something year old instagram sex play person who goes by Bunny and likes to call him Daddy. That was never, ever going to be me. And he tried hard to make me fit his fantasy, rather than finding someone who actually did. 

 

I ended up with someone from AVEN who dislikes PiV and oral like I do and is super chill about sex in general, which allowed me to be open to desiring it for once since it wasnt pushed from the get go. 

 

People refuse to just find compatible partners, but it really is better than trying to force it. Either it works in a healthy way, or it turns toxic from forcing things that dont fit. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

But I heard all about this from my husband, all the time and all the way through our relationship. Maybe all asexuals who have been in a relationship with a sexual have also heard quite a lot about this.

 

But this is the only place where I've found a language to describe MY experience, which had never before been acknowledges as real or valid.

And this is the only place these sexuals can find people who get being with an asexual partner. Or hear advice from the ace perspective. They cant go anywhere else to discuss these relationships, or they get a lot of just leave, something is wrong with them, they are cheating on you etc useless advice. 

 

As was pointed out... you cant treat an ace/sexual relationship like a sexual/sexual one. Which is why sexual partners have nowhere else they can talk about their relationships other than ace spaces. It will be treated like a sexual/sexual relationship where one is rejecting the other. Which doesnt help. 

 

Also, no offense, but your ex sounds like as big a jerk as mine was. So, it isnt quite the same as sexuals talking about how to lovingly support their ace while also not sacrificing themselves. The OP post is from a sexless group for sexuals with sexuals... you see what kind of junk you find if you go off AVEN to discuss it. Most the posts on AVEN from sexuals isnt like this one. 

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Telecaster68

A really good way to ensure sexuals stick with pretty much the attitudes in the OP - and we pretty much all start there, with hurt, rejection and resentment - would be to push us off AVEN, because we'd have no way to get our heads round asexuality. 

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:11 AM, Telecaster68 said:

A really good way to ensure sexuals stick with pretty much the attitudes in the OP - and we pretty much all start there, with hurt, rejection and resentment - would be to push us off AVEN, because we'd have no way to get our heads round asexuality. 

 

On 7/27/2019 at 10:52 AM, Telecaster68 said:

And you have all of the rest of AVEN apart from the guess what - Partners, Friends and Allies section - where you'll be relatively unsullied by sexual people and their feelings. Meanwhile, there are even fewer sexual people who've been in relationships with asexuals than there are asexuals, and almost nobody outside that group understands what it's like and this is pretty much the only place we can discuss it with people who do get it. 

 

If you find us annoying, simply use the other 90pc of AVEN instead. 

.

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Winged Whisperer
5 minutes ago, Serran said:

 

As was pointed out... you cant treat an ace/sexual relationship like a sexual/sexual one. Which is why sexual partners have nowhere else they can talk about their relationships other than ace spaces. It will be treated like a sexual/sexual relationship where one is rejecting the other. Which doesnt help. 

And yet all I read in this forum reads just like that. Aces are constantly treated as oblivious jerks who are incapable of love and are selfish by some resentful posters.

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Serran
Just now, Winged Whisperer said:

And yet all I read in this forum reads just like that. Aces are constantly treated as oblivious jerks who are incapable of love and are selfish by some resentful posters.

Then you dont seem to read a lot of this forum. 

 

Lady Girl has given up sex for her relationship and talks about her spouse very lovingly. 

 

Padante occasionally pops in and he talks about feeling selfish himself, because he cant just be happy with his wife and sometimes needs support. He is voluntarily celibate and knew his wife was ace before marriage. 

 

@anisotrophic just in this thread has said how loving and caring and not selfish their partner is. 

 

Martin used to frequent this space and he was so appreciative of learning about the ace perspective, he felt it saved his marriage. He doesnt come by much anymore, but he used to PM me a lot about things and I guarantee you he never called his wife selfish. 

 

Etc, etc, etc.

 

Do sometimes the posts become a little bitter ? Yeah. But, if you read the flip side, so do the aces posts about their mixed relationships. "Why cant they just love me, why is it about sex, why do stupid animal urges count more than me, why do they have to be so selfish as to not just be happy with what we both like"... 

 

Is the OP post bitter and angry? Yeah. And, isnt about an asexual partner. Its from a sexual/sexual forum. And just shows how gross those forums can become. You really want sexuals to be hearing only that stuff about their partners who are ace ?

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Winged Whisperer
2 minutes ago, Serran said:

Then you dont seem to read a lot of this forum. 

I dunno, AVEN is literally the top url in my browser above Twitter, Youtube and Reddit, I don't know how much more I have to visit here for it to be enough. I have been driven out of here in the past because of the attitudes of some posters that just becomes unbearable after a while you know. For some it just boils down to "we good; asexuals bad". Sure there are some really great people here too that are understanding of their ace partners, I have a lot of admiration for the likes of anisotropic and xstatic. I didn't mean to say everyone holds that resentment, but from my experience I bump into them or people who are treating a mixed relationship similarly to a sexually compatible one a lot more than the understanding ones.

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Telecaster68
21 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

What you said made me cry and I said that in a response but you refused to drop the conversation.

I understand this isn't the place for me and I'm sorry but maybe you could show some consideration on other parts of this site?

Honestly? No, if by consideration you mean not saying anything at all. 

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:11 AM, Telecaster68 said:

A really good way to ensure sexuals stick with pretty much the attitudes in the OP - and we pretty much all start there, with hurt, rejection and resentment - would be to push us off AVEN, because we'd have no way to get our heads round asexuality. 

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Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

I do agree. 

But it would be nice if there was a place on this site where sexual don't comment, or only post sensitively. I didn't even realise sexual were on the site - since I did I've become more guarded. 

Echo chambers are seldom a good idea. 

 

There's also no need to be guarded, as long as you're not being nasty about people. Same rules apply to sexuals. 

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:39 AM, Telecaster68 said:

Honestly? No, if by consideration you mean not saying anything at all. 

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:41 AM, Telecaster68 said:

Echo chambers are seldom a good idea. 

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Sea horse said:

So the other 90pc of the site is my for asexuals as you said in your previous post?

Anyway you can comment as much as you like as I'm ignoring your posts. I just happened to view that comment and like most of what you say it made me angry/upset

 

I can only surmise you must have a problem with other people having a different opinion to yours in that case. 

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Telecaster68
Just now, Sea horse said:

My thread even began 'Women:' so you commenting was an example of male entitlement to monopolize any and every conversation

Not monopolise, but take part in. Surely a women only conversation would be just a bad. 

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Serran
23 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

I dunno, AVEN is literally the top url in my browser above Twitter, Youtube and Reddit, I don't know how much more I have to visit here for it to be enough. I have been driven out of here in the past because of the attitudes of some posters that just becomes unbearable after a while you know. For some it just boils down to "we good; asexuals bad". Sure there are some really great people here too that are understanding of their ace partners, I have a lot of admiration for the likes of anisotropic and xstatic. I didn't mean to say everyone holds that resentment, but from my experience I bump into them or people who are treating a mixed relationship similarly to a sexually compatible one a lot more than the understanding ones.

There are some bad attitudes, sure. Though, a lot of them end up 1) being slammed by a group when they start 2) banned eventually if they are too bad

 

I can think of three sexuals and a couple asexuals that just kind of owned the site for a bit with their toxicity. But, they didnt stick around for reason 1 or 2. A few others are around but I just ignore them cause... there are more good than bad, especially compared to other places on the net. 

 

 

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Serran

I just found the thread you two are arguing about...

 

And, mm. While I can see the logical value in the advice, it was kind of callously given, considering the emotional context of recently escaping an abusive and toxic relationship. So, I can see why shes a bit upset.

 

However... I dont think being upset at one user really means you need to be upset with all of us that dont ID as ace. Anymore than your ex being a jerk means all of us are jerks. 

 

Overall, the userbase on AVEN tends to be respectful. You get a few here and there, as with any community, but the strict modding tends to not allow much. 

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Homer

Folks, could we drop the bickering and get back on track, please. Thanks 

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TimeDelay
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

 Meanwhile, there are even fewer sexual people who've been in relationships with asexuals than there are asexuals, and almost nobody outside that group understands what it's like and this is pretty much the only place we can discuss it with people who do get it. 

 

Statistically you're likely correct but since I found iliasm it's opened my eyes to the possibility there are a lot more of us than acknowledged. It's definitely true that there are fewer sexual people who've come to realise they're in relationships with asexual people. On ILIASM I'm in danger of becoming that person who tells everybody to ask their partner how they reeeealllly feel about the lack of sex/intimacy. There are a surprising number of folks who mention their partner were never very demonstrative but they carry on thinking of every reason under the sun except a sexual orientation difference. Most of the time it's self blame and that can last for decades unfortunately. The challenge is persuading people to talk after years of learned avoidance behaviours.  

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iff

please can we get back onto the topic of the thread.

 

Thanks,

iff,

moderator, sexual partners, friends & allies

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Telecaster68
2 hours ago, Serran said:

I just found the thread you two are arguing about...

Can you give me a link? I have no idea what it was.

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TimeDelay
45 minutes ago, iff said:

please can we get back onto the topic of the thread.

 

Thanks,

iff,

moderator, sexual partners, friends & allies

Confused by this as the topic of this thread is what I was commenting on, can you advise how I went wrong here? Sorry, I'm very new to this forum.

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anisotrophic

@TimeDelay I think it was more a request not to get distracted the way tele did...

 

I think it's important to recognize that there's a global absence of intimacy characterized in the first post.

 

And often that means no-sex is a symptom/consequence of a relationship that has larger issues, not about sex (and asexuality). (And again, that is something the original quoted material observed.)

 

@Traveler40 has noted that she realized her husband is probably aromantic as well. The "split attraction model" may be important here.

 

@TimeDelay it may be as you say, many people went into default-het patterns that were really something else. If their partner is aro as well as ace, then one can imagine the outcome is as described.

 

But in many cases aces still experience romantic attraction. Thus you get the ace folks who are compromising (often not consciously), trying to perform sexuality for their partner, who they love. And a sexual partner nevertheless feels rejected and inadequate because absence of sexual interest implies their partner doesn't love them (because that's how it usually works, romantic love usually leads to sexual attraction).

 

I can say it is/was very confusing to adapt to understanding I'm loved without being desired sexually. And I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone that wasn't otherwise intimate.

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TimeDelay
57 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

 

@Traveler40 has noted that she realized her husband is probably aromantic as well. The "split attraction model" may be important here.

 

 

But in many cases aces still experience romantic attraction. Thus you get the ace folks who are compromising (often not consciously), trying to perform sexuality for their partner, who they love. And a sexual partner nevertheless feels rejected and inadequate because absence of sexual interest implies their partner doesn't love them (because that's how it usually works, romantic love usually leads to sexual attraction).

 

I can say it is/was very confusing to adapt to understanding I'm loved without being desired sexually. And I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone that wasn't otherwise intimate.

I've been mulling over this (very new concept to me) aromantic element. Starting a new thread..I'd really appreciate input!

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Traveler40
1 hour ago, anisotrophic said:

The "split attraction model" may be important here.

I have no idea what that is, but will look it up. Thank you for your thoughtful post @anisotrophic.  

 

Rather than think about the OP, I was busy feeling it and since regretted the post having considered it from various angles.  Additionally, I went on to wonder if perhaps I’m harboring some deep seated anger I was unaware of? 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

My conclusion is I don’t think so: I felt her pain and followed her path of conclusions.  I know that path and that pain too well.  

 

The likely basis, as noted, is the lack of intimacy and support due to Aromanticism.

 

The last two years have altered me in ways I can’t put into words. My lover has taught me about humility, shown me empathy, led me to sensuality, loved me regardless and exposed me to intimacy.  I never knew any of that with a partner before him, and it only makes things harder actually.  It’s not about the sex, it’s about the bundle.

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