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“Overwhelming Advice”


Traveler40

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:11 AM, Telecaster68 said:

A really good way to ensure sexuals stick with pretty much the attitudes in the OP - and we pretty much all start there, with hurt, rejection and resentment - would be to push us off AVEN, because we'd have no way to get our heads round asexuality. 

 

On 7/27/2019 at 10:52 AM, Telecaster68 said:

And you have all of the rest of AVEN apart from the guess what - Partners, Friends and Allies section - where you'll be relatively unsullied by sexual people and their feelings. Meanwhile, there are even fewer sexual people who've been in relationships with asexuals than there are asexuals, and almost nobody outside that group understands what it's like and this is pretty much the only place we can discuss it with people who do get it. 

 

If you find us annoying, simply use the other 90pc of AVEN instead. 

.

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Winged Whisperer
5 minutes ago, Serran said:

 

As was pointed out... you cant treat an ace/sexual relationship like a sexual/sexual one. Which is why sexual partners have nowhere else they can talk about their relationships other than ace spaces. It will be treated like a sexual/sexual relationship where one is rejecting the other. Which doesnt help. 

And yet all I read in this forum reads just like that. Aces are constantly treated as oblivious jerks who are incapable of love and are selfish by some resentful posters.

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Just now, Winged Whisperer said:

And yet all I read in this forum reads just like that. Aces are constantly treated as oblivious jerks who are incapable of love and are selfish by some resentful posters.

Then you dont seem to read a lot of this forum. 

 

Lady Girl has given up sex for her relationship and talks about her spouse very lovingly. 

 

Padante occasionally pops in and he talks about feeling selfish himself, because he cant just be happy with his wife and sometimes needs support. He is voluntarily celibate and knew his wife was ace before marriage. 

 

@anisotrophic just in this thread has said how loving and caring and not selfish their partner is. 

 

Martin used to frequent this space and he was so appreciative of learning about the ace perspective, he felt it saved his marriage. He doesnt come by much anymore, but he used to PM me a lot about things and I guarantee you he never called his wife selfish. 

 

Etc, etc, etc.

 

Do sometimes the posts become a little bitter ? Yeah. But, if you read the flip side, so do the aces posts about their mixed relationships. "Why cant they just love me, why is it about sex, why do stupid animal urges count more than me, why do they have to be so selfish as to not just be happy with what we both like"... 

 

Is the OP post bitter and angry? Yeah. And, isnt about an asexual partner. Its from a sexual/sexual forum. And just shows how gross those forums can become. You really want sexuals to be hearing only that stuff about their partners who are ace ?

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Winged Whisperer
2 minutes ago, Serran said:

Then you dont seem to read a lot of this forum. 

I dunno, AVEN is literally the top url in my browser above Twitter, Youtube and Reddit, I don't know how much more I have to visit here for it to be enough. I have been driven out of here in the past because of the attitudes of some posters that just becomes unbearable after a while you know. For some it just boils down to "we good; asexuals bad". Sure there are some really great people here too that are understanding of their ace partners, I have a lot of admiration for the likes of anisotropic and xstatic. I didn't mean to say everyone holds that resentment, but from my experience I bump into them or people who are treating a mixed relationship similarly to a sexually compatible one a lot more than the understanding ones.

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On 7/27/2019 at 11:11 AM, Telecaster68 said:

A really good way to ensure sexuals stick with pretty much the attitudes in the OP - and we pretty much all start there, with hurt, rejection and resentment - would be to push us off AVEN, because we'd have no way to get our heads round asexuality. 

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23 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

I dunno, AVEN is literally the top url in my browser above Twitter, Youtube and Reddit, I don't know how much more I have to visit here for it to be enough. I have been driven out of here in the past because of the attitudes of some posters that just becomes unbearable after a while you know. For some it just boils down to "we good; asexuals bad". Sure there are some really great people here too that are understanding of their ace partners, I have a lot of admiration for the likes of anisotropic and xstatic. I didn't mean to say everyone holds that resentment, but from my experience I bump into them or people who are treating a mixed relationship similarly to a sexually compatible one a lot more than the understanding ones.

There are some bad attitudes, sure. Though, a lot of them end up 1) being slammed by a group when they start 2) banned eventually if they are too bad

 

I can think of three sexuals and a couple asexuals that just kind of owned the site for a bit with their toxicity. But, they didnt stick around for reason 1 or 2. A few others are around but I just ignore them cause... there are more good than bad, especially compared to other places on the net. 

 

 

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I just found the thread you two are arguing about...

 

And, mm. While I can see the logical value in the advice, it was kind of callously given, considering the emotional context of recently escaping an abusive and toxic relationship. So, I can see why shes a bit upset.

 

However... I dont think being upset at one user really means you need to be upset with all of us that dont ID as ace. Anymore than your ex being a jerk means all of us are jerks. 

 

Overall, the userbase on AVEN tends to be respectful. You get a few here and there, as with any community, but the strict modding tends to not allow much. 

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Folks, could we drop the bickering and get back on track, please. Thanks 

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

 Meanwhile, there are even fewer sexual people who've been in relationships with asexuals than there are asexuals, and almost nobody outside that group understands what it's like and this is pretty much the only place we can discuss it with people who do get it. 

 

Statistically you're likely correct but since I found iliasm it's opened my eyes to the possibility there are a lot more of us than acknowledged. It's definitely true that there are fewer sexual people who've come to realise they're in relationships with asexual people. On ILIASM I'm in danger of becoming that person who tells everybody to ask their partner how they reeeealllly feel about the lack of sex/intimacy. There are a surprising number of folks who mention their partner were never very demonstrative but they carry on thinking of every reason under the sun except a sexual orientation difference. Most of the time it's self blame and that can last for decades unfortunately. The challenge is persuading people to talk after years of learned avoidance behaviours.  

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please can we get back onto the topic of the thread.

 

Thanks,

iff,

moderator, sexual partners, friends & allies

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45 minutes ago, iff said:

please can we get back onto the topic of the thread.

 

Thanks,

iff,

moderator, sexual partners, friends & allies

Confused by this as the topic of this thread is what I was commenting on, can you advise how I went wrong here? Sorry, I'm very new to this forum.

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anisotrophic

@TimeDelay I think it was more a request not to get distracted the way tele did...

 

I think it's important to recognize that there's a global absence of intimacy characterized in the first post.

 

And often that means no-sex is a symptom/consequence of a relationship that has larger issues, not about sex (and asexuality). (And again, that is something the original quoted material observed.)

 

@Traveler40 has noted that she realized her husband is probably aromantic as well. The "split attraction model" may be important here.

 

@TimeDelay it may be as you say, many people went into default-het patterns that were really something else. If their partner is aro as well as ace, then one can imagine the outcome is as described.

 

But in many cases aces still experience romantic attraction. Thus you get the ace folks who are compromising (often not consciously), trying to perform sexuality for their partner, who they love. And a sexual partner nevertheless feels rejected and inadequate because absence of sexual interest implies their partner doesn't love them (because that's how it usually works, romantic love usually leads to sexual attraction).

 

I can say it is/was very confusing to adapt to understanding I'm loved without being desired sexually. And I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone that wasn't otherwise intimate.

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57 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

 

@Traveler40 has noted that she realized her husband is probably aromantic as well. The "split attraction model" may be important here.

 

 

But in many cases aces still experience romantic attraction. Thus you get the ace folks who are compromising (often not consciously), trying to perform sexuality for their partner, who they love. And a sexual partner nevertheless feels rejected and inadequate because absence of sexual interest implies their partner doesn't love them (because that's how it usually works, romantic love usually leads to sexual attraction).

 

I can say it is/was very confusing to adapt to understanding I'm loved without being desired sexually. And I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone that wasn't otherwise intimate.

I've been mulling over this (very new concept to me) aromantic element. Starting a new thread..I'd really appreciate input!

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1 hour ago, anisotrophic said:

The "split attraction model" may be important here.

I have no idea what that is, but will look it up. Thank you for your thoughtful post @anisotrophic.  

 

Rather than think about the OP, I was busy feeling it and since regretted the post having considered it from various angles.  Additionally, I went on to wonder if perhaps I’m harboring some deep seated anger I was unaware of? 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

My conclusion is I don’t think so: I felt her pain and followed her path of conclusions.  I know that path and that pain too well.  

 

The likely basis, as noted, is the lack of intimacy and support due to Aromanticism.

 

The last two years have altered me in ways I can’t put into words. My lover has taught me about humility, shown me empathy, led me to sensuality, loved me regardless and exposed me to intimacy.  I never knew any of that with a partner before him, and it only makes things harder actually.  It’s not about the sex, it’s about the bundle.

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2 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

I have no idea what that is, but will look it up. Thank you for your thoughtful post @anisotrophic.  

 

Rather than think about the OP, I was busy feeling it and since regretted the post having considered it from various angles.  Additionally, I went on to wonder if perhaps I’m harboring some deep seated anger I was unaware of? 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

My conclusion is I don’t think so: I felt her pain and followed her path of conclusions.  I know that path and that pain too well.  

 

The likely basis, as noted, is the lack of intimacy and support due to Aromanticism.

 

The last two years have altered me in ways I can’t put into words. My lover has taught me about humility, shown me empathy, led me to sensuality, loved me regardless and exposed me to intimacy.  I never knew any of that before him, and it only makes things harder actually.  It’s not about the sex, it’s about the bundle.

Guessing its a matter of perspective. 

 

You related to the pain. 

 

I became viscerally disgusted by the anger and bitterness. 

 

You identify strongly with the hurt of it all. I, and others, have been targets of the anger. 

 

So different experiences shape our views of it. 

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AceMissBehaving

I agree that an echo chamber is rarely a good idea. Took a look at ILIASM for context, and ouch. Even looking at posts where asexuality had been accepted was rough (not all, but a lot). I might have missed something, but didn't see anything from the other side (ace folks, folks who don't want sex for other reasons), and maybe that would have helped with some of the resentment and anger, at least in regards to asexuals.

 

I've been grateful for the input from the sexuals here, it's helped clear up a lot for me. I used to experience some resentment towards my sexual partner because I couldn't get my head around the idea of sex as a need instead of a want. I felt like he was putting his want above my need. Hearing from sexuals without the usual assumption of shared knowledge has taught me a lot about myself, and my partner.

 

If my husband was looking for help or support, I would 100% rather they landed and participated here than ILIASM. It wouldn't be great for me because it would make it almost impossible to be open and frank, and this is currently the only outlet I have for that, but I would rather lose my network than have him find his away amongst what I saw there.

 

 

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"Sexless marriage" is seen as less than 10 times a year, scientifically, not never.

Ah, so that's why people who want to fuck can still be "asexual", and why people who eat meat can still be "vegetarian", so long as it's just like once a month or so. :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, TimeDelay said:

Confused by this as the topic of this thread is what I was commenting on, can you advise how I went wrong here? Sorry, I'm very new to this forum.

The message was in general and not at any one in particular just that the thread seemed to be going off-topic on that page

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Yeah, I'm not trying to dismiss it as a potential problem (for the people that must have more than that to feel fulfilled) but I feel like the choice of terminology could have been better >_>

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anisotrophic
2 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

I have no idea what that is, but will look it up. Thank you for your thoughtful post @anisotrophic.  

Oh, I'm sorry! I'll unpack the "split attraction model" for others, it's one of the first things I learned when learning about asexuality. (Also I have a bit of caution about the attempts to categorize interpersonal attraction, but contained within this model is a true observation that it varies.)

 

Many asexuals also identify as aromantic: they don't feel romantic love for people, their feelings are "friendship".

 

Others identify as experiencing romantic love, but for whatever reason, their experience of love and feelings of intimacy (emotional and physical) don't translate to sexual desire. These are romantic asexuals, and they can be heteroromantic, bi/panromantic, and homoromantic.

 

My (cismale) partner previously identified as bisexual, and now privately identifies as biromantic asexual. (Slightly before this I started to identify as non-binary, I was previously female; I learned about asexuality from my LGBTQIA+ therapist.) We've been together a decade and a half, the changes have been good so far!

 

Also: there are people that identify as aromantic and sexual. (Sexual desire isn't always romantic!) I don't have much experience with this, iirc @AspieAlly613 is one. (It's worth noting that the aro community struggles with questions around "what is romantic attraction" just as the ace community tries to understand sexual attraction.) AVEN has an aromantic subforum I don't pay attention to (I tend to stick to this, relationships, and gender 'cause I'm kind of trans) and there are other non-AVEN places like Arocalypse.

 

It's a prevalent concept in the community, you'll see the these identities in people's orientation they put in profiles. In symbolism sometimes an ace of spades is used to describe an aro ace, and an ace of hearts for a romantic ace.

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On 7/27/2019 at 10:58 AM, anisotrophic said:

when you say "I heard from sexuals because I heard from my toxic ex that I wasn't attracted to" I'm just hearing you map a nasty relationship with a person that wanted sex to "being sexual". It's the same conflation I feel sexual folks make when they decide their partner who doesn't want sex represents "being asexual" -- but it's their bad/toxic relationship, that's what's going on.

d.

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anisotrophic

@Sea horse some of the people that didn't care much for it are sexual, including me. I've been a bit more constructive about it, I hope, by sharing the split attraction model with folks.

 

Sorry you have to hear from normal people like me 🙄

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On 7/28/2019 at 12:11 AM, anisotrophic said:

@Sea horse some of the people that didn't care much for it are sexual, including me. I've been a bit more constructive about it, I hope, by sharing the split attraction model with folks.

 

Sorry you have to hear from normal people like me 🙄

.

 

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anisotrophic
2 minutes ago, Sea horse said:

Since I identified as asexual last week I've been reading everything I can on the site.

I've moved from sheer joy at the feeling of acceptance and for the first time in my life reading about experiences that matched my own, to feeling shame about my orientation and self hatred from seeing what a burden I would be/have been.

I have not cried so much for years.

You've been identifying as ace pretty recently, it's going to be a process.

 

I had strong reactions, as a sexual partner in a good & loving relationship. I went on hours long walks to nowhere, I say at the edge of the road and cried. (And I navigate my gender stuff.) I appreciate the discovery and process and emotions. I appreciate that there is relief, there is misery. 

 

I think it's important not to let your process of discovering identity result in a tribal mindset.

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On 7/28/2019 at 12:26 AM, anisotrophic said:

You've been identifying as ace pretty recently, it's going to be a process.

 

I had strong reactions, as a sexual partner in a good & loving relationship. I went on hours long walks to nowhere, I say at the edge of the road and cried. (And I navigate my gender stuff.) I appreciate the discovery and process and emotions. I appreciate that there is relief, there is misery. 

 

I think it's important not to let your process of discovering identity result in a tribal mindset.

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AspieAlly613
21 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

Also: there are people that identify as aromantic and sexual. (Sexual desire isn't always romantic!) I don't have much experience with this, iirc @AspieAlly613 is one.

I don't think that I'm aro, but other people speculate that I am.

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