Jump to content

W


Guest

Recommended Posts

everywhere and nowhere

Generally speaking - no. I have never been in a relationship. I would desire a relationship, but only a same-gender and nonsexual one. Which, basically, means that I have no motivation at all to enter a relationship with a man. I also take care to look good (which for me means wearing impressively colourful clothes and hippie jewellery) without being sexually attractive - and it seems to work, I hardly ever encounter problems such as catcalling. Though it may also be related to my age - after all, I'm close to 40 years old.

However, one of the very few people who have proposed me sex (I of course refused immediately, he kept being pushy - not in a dangerous, but rather just annoying way) was a definitely irresponsible man. Though I should add something: I still kinda feel some respect for him. I would never have sex with him, these are multiple layers of unwillingness: my general sex aversion which, given all available data, could probably never wane for anyone; the added factor of my political and esthetic aversion to straight sex (something I generally don't feel towards lesbian sex: I remain sex-averse at the level of just being way too afraid and too nudity-averse to ever consent to even trying sex, but I don't have this political aversion - on the contrary, I consider same-gender sex much more acceptable because it's more equal and therefore has less potential for coercion); and just the basic fact that I don't consider him attractive in the slightest. However... you know the Timothy Leary slogan "turn on, tune in, and drop out"? It's not like I consider it something to follow - my political direction is "progressive reformist", not "progressive separatist", I consider it a bad thing to isolate oneself from the "square" (as the hippies said) society instead of trying to make it a place for everyone. But really, that guy is the only person I know who really "dropped out", who is really able to function at the margin of society. I wouldn't want to live like this - I value just plain comfort, having my apartment, 3000 books of my own and a library nearby - but I can't deny that I do feel a little bit impressed by how that guy is able to live like this.

So, generally speaking, maybe there is some pattern of attracting the least responsible people? :huh:

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have trouble saying no, the dudes who keep pushing (that you eventually give in to) are going to be terrible people. Good men will respect a no and leave you alone (and thus you won't end up in a relationship with a good one). Bad men will try to wear you down, and if they succeed, then there you are in another bad relationship. 

 

Remember, no is a complete sentence. If you get bad vibes from someone, trust your instincts and don't be afraid to shut it down. Bad guys and abusers in particular will prey on women who are too polite or uncertain to say no firmly, and to walk away if they try to escalate. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Galactic Turtle

I definitely attract a certain type that tend to seem like they want to crack the code to my disinterest like a conquest. Eventually I'm either not worth the effort or it's not as exciting as they wanted it to be or they resent me and become aggressive.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2019 at 1:02 PM, Nowhere Girl said:

Generally speaking - no. I have never been in a relationship. I would desire a relationship, but only a same-gender and nonsexual one. Which, basically, means that I have no motivation at all to enter a relationship with a man. I also take care to look good (which for me means wearing impressively colourful clothes and hippie jewellery) without being sexually attractive - and it seems to work, I hardly ever encounter problems such as catcalling. Though it may also be related to my age - after all, I'm close to 40 years old.

However, one of the very few people who have proposed me sex (I of course refused immediately, he kept being pushy - not in a dangerous, but rather just annoying way) was a definitely irresponsible man. Though I should add something: I still kinda feel some respect for him. I would never have sex with him, these are multiple layers of unwillingness: my general sex aversion which, given all available data, could probably never wane for anyone; the added factor of my political and esthetic aversion to straight sex (something I generally don't feel towards lesbian sex: I remain sex-averse at the level of just being way too afraid and too nudity-averse to ever consent to even trying sex, but I don't have this political aversion - on the contrary, I consider same-gender sex much more acceptable because it's more equal and therefore has less potential for coercion); and just the basic fact that I don't consider him attractive in the slightest. However... you know the Timothy Leary slogan "turn on, tune in, and drop out"? It's not like I consider it something to follow - my political direction is "progressive reformist", not "progressive separatist", I consider it a bad thing to isolate oneself from the "square" (as the hippies said) society instead of trying to make it a place for everyone. But really, that guy is the only person I know who really "dropped out", who is really able to function at the margin of society. I wouldn't want to live like this - I value just plain comfort, having my apartment, 3000 books of my own and a library nearby - but I can't deny that I do feel a little bit impressed by how that guy is able to live like this.

So, generally speaking, maybe there is some pattern of attracting the least responsible people? :huh:

I

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2019 at 1:51 PM, Grimalkin said:

Good men will respect a no and leave you alone (and thus you won't end up in a relationship with a good one). Bad men will try to wear you down, and if they succeed, then there you are in another bad relationship. 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Galactic Turtle said:

I definitely attract a certain type that tend to seem like they want to crack the code to my disinterest like a conquest. Eventually I'm either not worth the effort or it's not as exciting as they wanted it to be or they resent me and become aggressive.

I'm glad it is not just me! I have had the resentment and aggression too, even when I've been really clear about my feelings etc - they seem to think it's some kind of game we're playing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere
45 minutes ago, Newperson said:

I could also respect someone living at the margin of society, although I couldn't do it either! But by sociopath I meant more 'psychopath' I guess - someone who doesn't understand or care about other people's feeling, lies all the time, can be abusive etc. 

Yes, I realised it. But that guy I mentioned - let's call him Yeshe, it's the Tibetan name he prefers using (he claims that some Tibetan monk had named him) - can be really irresponsible. He has fathered at least one child, with a married (and very Catholic) woman - the arrangement in which he was living at that time is baffling, because the husband claimed that he's only with his wife for the children's sake, that he doesn't care if his wife has another man, but Yeshe's period of living with that family ended with a scuffle between the two men, after which Yeshe was thrown out. ;)

He also seems to think that sex with minors is OK as long as the minor consents. And I stand by a strong, sex-negative interpretation of the law: that as long as someone can't fully understand sex and its consequences, they should be considered unable to give valid consent.

 

Yeshe's father used to be an officer in the army and for me it's really kinda visible by the way Yeshe rebels...

I admit that I have done a few risky things with him, for example went to the home where he was living at that time to smoke hash with him. ;) But nothing bad happened.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2019 at 6:02 PM, Nowhere Girl said:

Yes, I realised it. But that guy I mentioned - let's call him Yeshe, it's the Tibetan name he prefers using (he claims that some Tibetan monk had named him) - can be really irresponsible. He has fathered at least one child, with a married (and very Catholic) woman - the arrangement in which he was living at that time is baffling, because the husband claimed that he's only with his wife for the children's sake, that he doesn't care if his wife has another man, but Yeshe's period of living with that family ended with a scuffle between the two men, after which Yeshe was thrown out. ;)

He also seems to think that sex with minors is OK as long as the minor consents. And I stand by a strong, sex-negative interpretation of the law: that as long as someone can't fully understand sex and its consequences, they should be considered unable to give valid consent.

 

Yeshe's father used to be an officer in the army and for me it's really kinda visible by the way Yeshe rebels...

I admit that I have done a few risky things with him, for example went to the home where he was living at that time to smoke hash with him. ;) But nothing bad happened.

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I always attract teething male puppies that my friends got but that's about it for me 🤔 not as bad a human men but their bites and little scratches hurt so much.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, the men who won't take no for an answer are the ones to stay away from. They may say they think you are playing hard to get, but ultimately they aren't respecting you, and they will continue to not take for an answer on other issues. 

 

Also, it's entirely possible that reasonable people can tell you don't want a relationship (like your friend said), so only the assholes who don't care what you want are approaching you. Not much you can do about assholes except try to avoid allowing them access to your life.

 

It is always possible that you are spending time with people who wouldn't be good friends, much less partner material, which would go to your own "picker" as my therapist calls it. That's the hard one to fix. These days I pick my friends more carefully and in a lot happier for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. So much this. I don't what it is about me that attract the creeps.

 

Like others have said, they like that 'hard to get' attitude. We're seen as a sort of challenge. Ugh, it makes me cringe.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 12:02 AM, firebird8 said:

It is always possible that you are spending time with people who wouldn't be good friends, much less partner material, which would go to your own "picker" as my therapist calls it. That's the hard one to fix. These days I pick my friends more carefully and in a lot happier for it.

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 8:39 AM, Mythos1 said:

Yes. So much this. I don't what it is about me that attract the creeps.

 

Like others have said, they like that 'hard to get' attitude. We're seen as a sort of challenge. Ugh, it makes me cringe.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 12:13 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Clearly men not taking 'no' for an answer is wrong,  but let's be clear: plenty of women see part of the fun of flirting as that kind of light teasing and game playing, and for most people, flirting is playful, and that's a lot of the fun. It's kind of the beginnings of seeing if you share a sense of humour and an interest in creating your own world. There's a point where 'no' is 'no', but during the verbal sparring phase, the whole 'playing hard to get' thing is a legitimate interpretation of what's happening in many cases.

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 1:10 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Often, when people have a pattern of getting involved with a particular type of partner, it's because they're playing out issues from their childhood, rather than anything specifically to do with asexuality. I know it was for me, because I'm not asexual. 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 2:35 PM, Telecaster68 said:

My point is that there's a pattern in your behaviour there, of choosing certain types of men, and the way to break that pattern is to understand yourself better. It's not blaming anyone, it's not saying they were right or you were wrong, but clearly you have a choice over the kind of men you couple up with, and it's saying 'here's the way to stop choosing abusive ones'. 

 

It's not blaming you, it's recognising that you're able to change the kind of choices you make. The alternative is to cast yourself as powerless and an eternal victim.

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 3:00 PM, Telecaster68 said:

 At some point, regardless of whose actions were wrong and whose were right, who was powerful and who was powerless, who was harmful and who was harmed, you just have to find a way to stop it happening over and over, and you can, logically, only be responsible for what you do. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 3:53 PM, Telecaster68 said:

You can focus morally, emotionally and intellectually on the philosophy being victim blaming if you want, but if the only consequence is that victims stick around to have the shit kicked out of them a bit long in the name of philosophical purity, I'll take pragmatism every time.

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2019 at 4:13 PM, Telecaster68 said:

I agree, but that doesn't help the victim you have in front of you, then and there. Do you say to them 'well, yes, you've had the shit kicked out of you, but I'm not going to help you because conceptually it's victim blaming and the problem needs to be tackled at source'?

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Newperson said:

I think this is the answer. I'm easy going but also could be described as passive, maybe that is taken as submissive...I don't pick people so much as let them pick me!

Actually it's probably a confidence issue. I tend to assume people don't like me unless they make it very clear they want to spend time with me, and that s how I only end up around pushy people who might also be assholes! I just realised this!

Well good, maybe that will help! I also used to have friends by default. I felt like I had to be friends with everyone in my small church because...well because. These people didn't happen to treat me very well in some cases. Then I dated someone and he insisted his friends were also my friends - but they weren't, they were often actively unkind. 

 

Later, I joined a local meet up group (on the website, meetup) and went to events and became involved and met a lot of the people I am friends with now. I also have for a long time interacted with people I met in various places online and some of them have become real friends (forums like this, a blogger that I used to follow and became friends with, friends of friends, etc.) If you want to meet new people as an adult, it can be challenging. I suggest things like meetup, taking a class, volunteering for a cause you care about, anything you can think of that would have you spend time with other people but without the pressure. Classes could be things like yoga, pottery, cooking, computers - maybe I'm spoiled but there are inexpensive options for all of these in my area. 

 

Then there's small talk to break the ice. Let me tell you my secret: everyone loves to talk about the weather. It never fails. People always want to talk about it and tell you what they think and what happened when and all kinds of stuff if you bring it up. When people mention something about themselves, like say "my dogs really don't like going outside when it rains like this", then you can ask about whatever they say about themselves that you think is interesting, like "oh, what kind of dogs do you have?" And there you go! Out of small talk, into regular conversation.

 

I have to work at the above, because I host meetup events now and I try to keep the new comers engaged so they don't feel isolated. The switching over to making a friend out of the acquaintance you get from chatting at an event I'm not so good at. But what's worked for me is when it feels right saying something like, "hey I'm going to grab lunch at x place after this, would you like to come?" That way it's super informal and easy for them to say they are busy if they don't want to. 

 

And yeah, don't feel bad. It's hard to make good friends as an adult, and I think we need good friends more than allosexual people do. Regarding the other conversation here, I mentioned I see a therapist, and if you are suffering from depression or anxiety or PTSD or something like that, I can't recommend quality treatment highly enough. I suffered for many years before getting help. But if it's just about being treated badly by men who don't know how to take no for an answer, you probably won't find a quality therapist that would treat that. That's not a mental health condition, and in my experience, they want to diagnose a real mental health condition in order to justify talk therapy - not least because your insurance won't pay for it without a diagnosis! And in any case, it sounds like good friends will be a good thing. I needed therapy and meds and to distance myself from a toxic family, but I also need good friends and a good job and decent place to live and plenty of books to read (I promise, I need the books like I need food!)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2019 at 12:12 AM, firebird8 said:

Well good, maybe that will help! I also used to have friends by default. I felt like I had to be friends with everyone in my small church because...well because. These people didn't happen to treat me very well in some cases. Then I dated someone and he insisted his friends were also my friends - but they weren't, they were often actively unkind. 

 

And yeah, don't feel bad. It's hard to make good friends as an adult, and I think we need good friends more than allosexual people do. Regarding the other conversation here, I mentioned I see a therapist, and if you are suffering from depression or anxiety or PTSD or something like that, I can't recommend quality treatment highly enough. I suffered for many years before getting help. But if it's just about being treated badly by men who don't know how to take no for an answer, you probably won't find a quality therapist that would treat that. That's not a mental health condition, and in my experience, they want to diagnose a real mental health condition in order to justify talk therapy - not least because your insurance won't pay for it without a diagnosis! And in any case, it sounds like good friends will be a good thing. I needed therapy and meds and to distance myself from a toxic family, but I also need good friends and a good job and decent place to live and plenty of books to read (I promise, I need the books like I need food!)

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2019 at 11:31 AM, Telecaster68 said:

Newperson, can I PM you? I'm in the UK too and got some NHS mental health services fairly easily... 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Newperson said:

 

 

Yeah, in terms of therapy - I do feel as if I'm just not confident in who I am and don't even recognise my own feelings sometimes, and because of that other people tell me who I am and how I feel. I think that's what causes a lot of the problems. Deep down I think I just need to learn to trust my own feelings and accept them as valid. I think therapy might help with exploring this, but in the UK mental health services are only free if you have quite serious problems, and I am outwardly fine, fully functioning and able to cope. I wouldn't be able to afford to see anyone...but maybe one day I will be able to..

 

I am the same re the books - they're like a life support!

Oooh yeah that's not a nice feeling when you feel like other people are changing your mind for you and notice it happening but have trouble stopping it from happening. I remember once some decision that I was facing my opinion kept changing every time I talked to someone different to match what they told me and I got frustrated with myself for not having my own opinion.

 

I don't have a step by step plan or easy answers for that. All I know is to check inside myself and think "wait, what do I think? What do I feel? What do I want?" It's easy, if you're the type of person to go along and get along, to value your own needs less, but I've learned I need to at least know what I want, think and feel before I decide to give it up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...