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Hate from the 'sex positive' movement

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CBC

Um. Yeah. I would never have have sex with someone I didn't respect. I would prefer not to have sex with someone I didn't love, and inherent in love is respect. The act of sex, at least the type of sex I want/prefer, is an act borne of love, so to say that that's not compatible with respect sounds completely bizarre to me.

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neverlove
8 hours ago, Sally said:

You seem to be implying that anyone who has sex, and experiments with sex, is devoid of feelings of respect for their partners.   That's certainly untrue.  

Where on Earth did I say that? I was saying experimenting can be risky, and we shouldn’t just encourage experimentation willy nilly.

 

Example: bondage is something people enjoy, but it’s not for everyone, and if you pursue it have a safe word, talk about what’s okay and what isn’t, etc.

 

It’s fine to experiment, but not on a dare, not when you’re drunk, not with a stranger(imo). I just want people to be mindful of their emotional and physical health! 

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neverlove
2 hours ago, CBC said:

Um. Yeah. I would never have have sex with someone I didn't respect. I would prefer not to have sex with someone I didn't love, and inherent in love is respect. The act of sex, at least the type of sex I want/prefer, is an act borne of love, so to say that that's not compatible with respect sounds completely bizarre to me.

Loving and being in a relationship with them is the definition of not using them for sex. What did I say that was so confusing? 😣I’m saying people shouldn’t have sex if they don’t respect their partners. It can be ethical to experiment on people, but they need to know ahead of time and agree to it and stuff. Sexual experimentation can be pretty serious stuff and I just don’t think people should be jumping into it without a thought.

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Pheedre
On 7/19/2019 at 10:15 AM, uhtred said:

Today some people think asexuals are selfish women who regulate sex to control their husbands.   (to be clear I believe neither of the above is actually true) 

Wow I think this is so true! ( That people think this, I don't think it myself)

Edited by Pheedre
Clarification
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idkwmoi

I've never run into anything I would call hate and I frequent a lot of kink-friendly bars because they're the only ones that play my type of music. The biggest problem I have is that there are a lot of people that think they have the power to change me. Maybe it's a cultural thing in your area? 

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Anthracite_Impreza

I don't really run in the circles where I would be hated on for being ace, but I can believe it. Personally I've had some absolutely awful things said about me because I'm objectum though, including on AVEN.

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Sally
8 hours ago, neverlove said:

Loving and being in a relationship with them is the definition of not using them for sex. What did I say that was so confusing? 😣I’m saying people shouldn’t have sex if they don’t respect their partners. It can be ethical to experiment on people, but they need to know ahead of time and agree to it and stuff. Sexual experimentation can be pretty serious stuff and I just don’t think people should be jumping into it without a thought.

People have sex with people they are not in a relationship with, and do not love.  That is not "sexual experimentation"; it's simply having sex with someone who also wants to have sex.   Your attitude toward it does not automatically mean that it shouldn't happen.  

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crazy ace

@Anthracite_Impreza

3 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I don't really run in the circles where I would be hated on for being ace, but I can believe it. Personally I've had some absolutely awful things said about me because I'm objectum though, including on AVEN.

That's horrible! Where?

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Pheedre
Just now, crazy ace said:

@Anthracite_Impreza

That's horrible! Where?

I had to google objectum, I say, you do you! ❤️

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Anthracite_Impreza
15 minutes ago, crazy ace said:

@Anthracite_Impreza

That's horrible! Where?

All over ;) We are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to "legal" orientations.

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Iridium

I think that, as with many other movements, the ideals of "sex positivity" aren't always what its proponents actually put into practice in their lives. 

Thus, a community can be more accepting in theory than in practice.

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Iridium

@Anthracite_Impreza, *sends hugs*

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crazy ace
19 hours ago, neverlove said:

The sex positivity sort of grosses me, and I don’t really agree with it in a sense. I don’t think all sex is great as long as everyone consents. Rather than pushing a sexual agenda, I feel like we should promote personal health. Encouraging people to repeatedly put themselves in emotionally and physically vulnerable positions without also speaking to the personal toll that can take is irresponsible. How many people on this site ended up pursuing sex because they were told that was the healthy, normal thing to do and then regret it? I don’t think this kind of thing happens to asexuals alone. Sexual experimentation is literally treating ourselves and our partners as test subjects and we are not encouraged to consider the ramifications of this aside from “wear a condom”.

People should be treated with love and respect, and I don’t think using each other for sex is included in that.

@neverlove

You said that "using someone for sex is not included in respect", which may have implied that you thought sex and respect were mutually exclusive.

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Iridium

People are allowed to have different views about sex and romance.  And most of us are repulsed by one thing or another, so we shouldn't judge others for the things they don't want to do.

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neverlove
2 hours ago, crazy ace said:

 

You said that "using someone for sex is not included in respect", which may have implied that you thought sex and respect were mutually exclusive

I understand now that people are interpreting it that way, but my assumption was that it is obviously a good thing to respect our sexual partners and that by definition if you are  using someone as a tool you are not respecting them as a human being and that this would be understood. Now obviously everyone here agrees that respect is a good part of sex so I’m still wondering why people skipped over the “using” part and assumed I was denigrating sex as a whole.

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neverlove
3 hours ago, Sally said:

People have sex with people they are not in a relationship with, and do not love.  That is not "sexual experimentation"; it's simply having sex with someone who also wants to have sex.   Your attitude toward it does not automatically mean that it shouldn't happen.  

...I don’t know why you felt the need to say this. If you disagree with me tell me that. Explain how using one another for sex can be positive (🤢), and please assume I am not ignorant because both of your comments are predicated on me  having an incomplete understanding of things compared to yourself. 

 

know the world doesn’t change based on my whim. I do not believe I am God incarnate and I find it strange indeed that you would imply I am that narcissistic for merely stating my opinion. 

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acematt
On 7/19/2019 at 7:52 AM, alienanteater said:

I've pretty much experienced all of those. From threats of rape and emotional and even physical abuse (including actual rape) for not complying with people, saying that I shouldn't be allowed to exist, purposefully trying to sabotage my life, and on and on. To the point where its almost impossible for me to interact with most of the world.

Don't let those worthless idiots get under your skin. They're the ones with the hangup not you. Just be yourself and be proud to be an ace. 

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Sally
2 hours ago, neverlove said:

...I don’t know why you felt the need to say this. If you disagree with me tell me that. Explain how using one another for sex can be positive (🤢), and please assume I am not ignorant because both of your comments are predicated on me  having an incomplete understanding of things compared to yourself. 

 

know the world doesn’t change based on my whim. I do not believe I am God incarnate and I find it strange indeed that you would imply I am that narcissistic for merely stating my opinion. 

You consistently talk about "using" a person for sex, which sounds to me that you don't understand that in a sex act consented to by both partners, they are having sex with each other for pleasure.    

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neverlove
1 hour ago, Sally said:

You consistently talk about "using" a person for sex, which sounds to me that you don't understand that in a sex act consented to by both partners, they are having sex with each other for pleasure.    

...I don’t know how to respond to this quite...

 

Using someone for sex is only caring about their utility as a sexual object, many people consent to this. I don’t believe that is good for people in the long-term, or sometimes even as a one time deal depending.

 

What you just described is basically my definition of using someone for sex. There is more to sex than just that. So I still don’t understand what you are trying to say (which is still based on the assumption that I’m ignorant 😕). In fact, there is a pretty widely accepted idea/definition of using someone for sex and a concept of it being generally undesirable. I’m not breaking new ground here, so I fail to see why you don’t understand.

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Sally
1 hour ago, neverlove said:

...I don’t know how to respond to this quite...

 

Using someone for sex is only caring about their utility as a sexual object, many people consent to this. I don’t believe that is good for people in the long-term, or sometimes even as a one time deal depending.

 

What you just described is basically my definition of using someone for sex. There is more to sex than just that. So I still don’t understand what you are trying to say (which is still based on the assumption that I’m ignorant 😕). In fact, there is a pretty widely accepted idea/definition of using someone for sex and a concept of it being generally undesirable. I’m not breaking new ground here, so I fail to see why you don’t understand.

So you consider that people consenting to have sex for pleasure is not "good for people in the long-term"?  Or even as a "one time deal"?  
 

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neverlove
12 hours ago, Sally said:

So you consider that people consenting to have sex for pleasure is not "good for people in the long-term"?  Or even as a "one time deal"?  
 

🥳 Congratulations! 🎉 You have reached the end of my tolerance for passive aggression. In the unlikely chance you want to rephrase your question so that it is polite, or if someone else wishes to do it for you I will be happy to continue the discussion.

 

Apologies to OP for diverging from the original topic. 

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ben8884

Can we please refrain from any personal insults and derailing. I do not want to lock this thread.

Ben8884 Moderator for Asexual Musings and Rantings. 

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SithGirl

Personally, I would consider myself sex-positive in regards to overall society. I find sex to have a big stigma in America at least, and one that should be removed. People should be free to express their sexuality however they like as long as it's consentual.

 

I grew up around Christians, and while my parents were very accepting and a "Wait until you're ready" kind as opposed to "Not until marriage" kind, I still felt the pressure to wait and keep "that part" of myself private and secret. If this stigma were removed and kids were able to talk about sexuality and learn how to be safe and what consent is, then maybe we as asexuals won't be treated badly either. I was ignorant of my sexuality because I thought it was my religion, and then I thought it was a hold-out of my fading beliefs, and I thought those around me who were expressing themselves sexually were "bad" or "trouble makers". Imagine if I hadn't grown up being taught to believe this? I would've discovered my orientation so much sooner!

 

And there's this pervasive belief that women/girls/female-bodied individuals aren't interested in sex or need to be wooed or persuaded, and it would be amazing if you just took my "no" as a "no" and move on, thanks. I'm not repressed or in denial, and I fully support your right to go and have sex with someone else who's actually willing, just leave me out of it.

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gray-a girl
On 7/19/2019 at 9:57 AM, Chris Zulas said:

the sex positive movement is great when its doing what its supposed to instead of shoving hypersexuality and shittiness towards less sexual people at people who dont want it for themselves. not helped that the queer community LOVES sex positivity and shares with it the idea of erasing aspec identity. im leery of any non-aspec sex positive person i meet online same as i am when i meet someone whose bio is all political talk - u could be n prolly r good, but my experience has made me wince when i look at you

 

On 7/19/2019 at 8:52 AM, Guest said:

I've pretty much experienced all of those. From threats of rape and emotional and even physical abuse (including actual rape) for not complying with people, saying that I shouldn't be allowed to exist, purposefully trying to sabotage my life, and on and on. To the point where its almost impossible for me to interact with most of the world.

 

On 7/19/2019 at 10:48 PM, Guest said:

I honestly don't know what the person's motivation for doing it was. But I have had people basically tell me that my existence has no value because of my orientation. And yes, asexuality can be a lifelong orientation, as I'm fairly certain most of us agree on.

 

On 8/30/2019 at 5:26 PM, GlamRocker said:

The vast majority of my interaction with people discussing asexuality is on the internet because I'm not out in real life. The climate of most of the world is a sex positive one. Most of the self identified sexuals on the internet do seem to think that anyone reporting actively avoiding sex are antisexuals, and if not that, then they're repressed.

 

No one but self identifying asexuals seem to think asexuality exists. Well, them and people who have been in a relationship with someone they themselves have labeled an asexual because they wouldn't have sex with them.

 

Sort of ironic that so many people on here are concerned with asexual erasure, yet a huge majority in AVEN like to erase my identity and orientation.

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Chris Zulas
4 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

 

 

 

 

Sort of ironic that so many people on here are concerned with asexual erasure, yet a huge majority in AVEN like to erase my identity and orientation.

i didnt do that so id ask you to not get angry at angry people bc you dont see enough angry at you. allo, ace, aspec are all cool. im sick of assholes. please dont respond to bullshit with bullshit. if thats not what you meant than sorry, but none of these remarks they or i made relate to grey-ace erasure, which is real and terrible

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Some guy

There's a lot of virgin shaming in the sex-positive movement definitely. I've seen a lot of self-proclaimed champions of social justice basically call any man who doesn't have sex on a regular basis a creepy loser. Apparently this sort of behavior is discouraged in the feminist community, but that doesn't stop a lot of sex-positive feminists from doing it.

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neverlove
1 hour ago, Some guy said:

There's a lot of virgin shaming in the sex-positive movement definitely. I've seen a lot of self-proclaimed champions of social justice basically call any man who doesn't have sex on a regular basis a creepy loser. Apparently this sort of behavior is discouraged in the feminist community, but that doesn't stop a lot of sex-positive feminists from doing it.

Yeah, what's wrong with keeping myself to myself? Not wanting to have sex with a bunch of people doesn't mean I'm ashamed of my body or sexual urges. 

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Some guy
1 minute ago, neverlove said:

Yeah, what's wrong with keeping myself to myself? Not wanting to have sex with a bunch of people doesn't mean I'm ashamed of my body or sexual urges. 

Well, apparently if you're a virgin that means you're desperate and a rapist waiting to happen. These people don't seem to understand the concept of voluntary celibacy. Their entire lives revolve around getting laid, so the idea of someone not caring about sex is completely foreign to them, and they assume that everyone else is just as horny as they are.

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neverlove
19 minutes ago, Some guy said:

Well, apparently if you're a virgin that means you're desperate and a rapist waiting to happen. These people don't seem to understand the concept of voluntary celibacy. Their entire lives revolve around getting laid, so the idea of someone not caring about sex is completely foreign to them, and they assume that everyone else is just as horny as they are.

am horny. A lot. I just think if I go out and randomly have sex it will wreck my mental health. I'd also probably vomit.

 

And what's so great ANYWAY. STDs, pregnancy scares, ex drama, bad sex...since when did we stop telling people it's dangerous to go home with strangers? Television never made casual sex look good, and I never heard anyone say they loved everything about it. I am not going home with strange men whose only goal is to schtupp me and then send me on my way at best!

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theV0ID

I consider myself to be sex-positive, although I'm not really part of any 'movement' I interact with people who are pro-active about promoting sex-positivity and I haven't ever encountered any hate. The worst I've seen is people not really discussing asexuality, often because they don't really know anything about it. I've never encountered any negativity for mentioning it outside of the expected internet trolls. I have seen sexual people promoting asexual awareness.

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