Moon

[Balance]

I was watching some NASA and PBS videos/tv shows of the moon landing (50th anniversary July 20th pbs.org  https://www.nasa.gov/specials/apollo50th/index.html ). I'd obviously heard of the 1969 moon landing but didn't remember any of the 1970s stuff when I was probably kindergarden age. I probably saw a clip of the 69 moon landing just like everybody else but I never saw the full video that was shown back then including simulations. I was surprised that there were so many in the 70s. I was never the type to be all about space camp, etc so just curious what you all remember since this is kind of before my time I guess.

[daveb]

A bit fuzzy in my memory, but I do seem to recall having assemblies in the school auditorium in elementary school to show all of us kids some of the Gemini and/or Apollo missions on live tv. I am sure I watched the moon landings live, too, but after all these years it's hard to separate out that with all of the media since then, both actual clips and depictions from movies and tv. I also seem to recall how thrilling and awe-inspiring a lot of that stuff was. I still get similar feelings these days from stuff like the probes to Mars, flybys of the outer planets and Pluto and all that. One thing that often comes to mind for me is that when I was born we hadn't sent anything into earth orbit, much less past it. From sputnik to the moon landings to Space-X and everything going on these days, all that happened in my lifetime.  

[uhtred]

It is one of my first memories.  Sadly I didn't watch it live - I was a little child and my parents "didn't want to wake me", so I saw it the next day.  It is the only thing I have never forgiven them for.  To me it was the greatest moment in human history.  

 

 

 

 

[Nick2]

That was when we could solve problems and accept challenges.  Now we can't even keep the bridges working or the lights on.

[Karst]

I wasn't alive for the first one, but I'm dearly hoping that I can be involved in the upcoming set of missions.  I'm a geology major, and I actually know someone who worked on the last Mars lander, so this isn't a totally unreasonable dream.

[Nick2]

Unmanned missions are the way to go.  Cost affective and you can get info for years.

[uhtred]

13 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Unmanned missions are the way to go.  Cost affective and you can get info for years.

Depends on the goal.  For science I completely agree.  If the goal *is* to get human into space, then I think manned missions make sense. 

[Kelly]

I attended the launch of Apollo 11 and watched the landing and moonwalks. It was a big thing then and now. But there seems to be little progress since then. Artemis and Spacex's Starship sound good if they work.

[uhtred]

22 hours ago, Kelly said:

I attended the launch of Apollo 11 and watched the landing and moonwalks. It was a big thing then and now. But there seems to be little progress since then. Artemis and Spacex's Starship sound good if they work.

It took me a long time to recognize that the space age was over. 

 

We were so close, but we failed. I'm not convinced we have the resources for another go.  Its sort of like a chick hatching out of an egg.  If it doesn't make it after a try or two, it runs out of energy.  

[Kelly]

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

It took me a long time to recognize that the space age was over. 

 

We were so close, but we failed...

The Space Race basically ended with the Apollo-Soyuz docking in 1975. It was won on 20 July 1969, when Neil and Buzz walked on the moon. I hope that people go back. And visiting Mars would be quite an achievement. I hope I live to see it.

 

Today is the 50th anniversary of the launch of Apollo 11. As mentioned, I was at the launch. Was anyone else?  

 

If not, what are your memories of that day, if you saw it on TV?

[gisiebob]

we didn't win the space race just like we didn't win the cold war. we overtook our adversary and then rolled over.

at least in the cold war we were not the good guys (neither folk holding the world hostage with nuclear war were)

 

I hope we can go back with gusto, but the world has a hard time caring.

[uhtred]

10 minutes ago, gisiebob said:

we didn't win the space race just like we didn't win the cold war. we overtook our adversary and then rolled over.

at least in the cold war we were not the good guys (neither folk holding the world hostage with nuclear war were)

 

I hope we can go back with gusto, but the world has a hard time caring.

I think we clearly won the cold war. The Soviet Uniion is gone. We pretty clearly won the space race as well since it was understood the goal was a manned moon landing. USSR gave up trying after we got their first. 

 

We gave up after we won the moon race- an no one went any further. 

[daveb]

3 hours ago, Kelly said:

If not, what are your memories of that day, if you saw it on TV?

I'm sure I saw it on tv, but my memories are very fuzzy, and it's hard to separate everything I've seen on the matter since then (actual clips, tv/movie re-enactments, and other media).  

[Balance]

Thanks for your replies! Interesting to hear about these!

[gisiebob]

3 hours ago, uhtred said:

I think we clearly won the cold war. The Soviet Uniion is gone. We pretty clearly won the space race as well since it was understood the goal was a manned moon landing. USSR gave up trying after we got their first. 

 

We gave up after we won the moon race- an no one went any further. 

we did not win the cold war. nuclrear armaments are still a lasting burden to us, the military-industrial complex lazily soaks up our taxes and our concept of manufacturing was transferred to a country that grew from communism.

 

I was born into a country that was certain it was great but couldn't recall why. I have seen not the celebration of victory, only the hangover.

 

should you find yourself in a race, and you having lapped your competition, and they having conceded in a way, would you leave that track as well? we, a country of frontiersmen reached out to the first rock across the waters and said 'that is good enough'

 

 

[uhtred]

1 hour ago, gisiebob said:

we did not win the cold war. nuclrear armaments are still a lasting burden to us, the military-industrial complex lazily soaks up our taxes and our concept of manufacturing was transferred to a country that grew from communism.

 

I was born into a country that was certain it was great but couldn't recall why. I have seen not the celebration of victory, only the hangover.

 

should you find yourself in a race, and you having lapped your competition, and they having conceded in a way, would you leave that track as well? we, a country of frontiersmen reached out to the first rock across the waters and said 'that is good enough'

 

 

The cold war us usually seen as a conflict for political / military dominance between the US and the USSR. It wasn't a war against nuclear weapons, it was a war where the threat of nuclear weapons played a large part.   The USSR is gone, and the Russia of today much more closely resembles the US than it does the old Soviet Union.   The winner of a war isn't required to give up its weapons in order to declare victory. 

That said, I'd like to see us get rid of nukes if we can find a safe way t do so.   (MAD has kept the peace between major powers for decades - we would need something to replace it).

A race ends when you get to the finish line. You don't normally keep running after you cross the finish.

That said I wish we had continued. 



 

[gisiebob]

the cold war was a conflict of ideologies. both were shown to be lacking, to be disinvested with the human spirit. two competitors who had no inclination of a fair fight. one didn't die, sure, but it lost its faith. and that is a good thing.

 

do you think we would not have been safe had we given up our assurance of destruction? maybe, if we were no less belligerent. or maybe we would not have been so irredeemably belligerent if we didn't have the apocalypse button to impower us.

the arsonal certainly didn't protect us from irradiating ourselves in an overture of 'tests'

 

 

...we should probably stop being off topic, but I welcome your last word on the matter

[uhtred]

11 hours ago, gisiebob said:

the cold war was a conflict of ideologies. both were shown to be lacking, to be disinvested with the human spirit. two competitors who had no inclination of a fair fight. one didn't die, sure, but it lost its faith. and that is a good thing.

 

do you think we would not have been safe had we given up our assurance of destruction? maybe, if we were no less belligerent. or maybe we would not have been so irredeemably belligerent if we didn't have the apocalypse button to impower us.

the arsonal certainly didn't protect us from irradiating ourselves in an overture of 'tests'

 

 

...we should probably stop being off topic, but I welcome your last word on the matter

Maybe a new discussion?   My believe though is that without nuclear weapons there would have been a conventional WW3 , that likely was worse than WW2, as WW2 was worse than WW1, and the Napoleonic wars etc - with increasing european wars throughout the last thousand years. 

[Karst]

Maybe this thing about the Cold War should be split off into another thread?

[ColeHW34]

12 minutes ago, Ardoise said:

Maybe this thing about the Cold War should be split off into another thread?

Yes.

[Karst]

I'm way too excited about future Mars missions.  At my university, we had a party when the most recent lander, InSight, got there.

 

I hope that one day, we actually manage to build a colony there.  It would give us room to expand without displacing any wildlife or native peoples.  Just give me some seed potatoes and a spacesuit, and I'll volunteer to go.

[Nick2]

There is more technology in your car and/or smart phone than what was available for the moon landing back then.  It is amazing we pulled that off.

[Skycaptain]

4 hours ago, Nick2 said:

There is more technology in your car and/or smart phone than what was available for the moon landing back then.  It is amazing we pulled that off.

We probably managed it because there wasn't the technology. KISS worked 

[timewarp]

5 hours ago, Nick2 said:

There is more technology in your car and/or smart phone than what was available for the moon landing back then.  It is amazing we pulled that off.

That's why nowadays space transportation is mostly done by Russia. Whereas the western world is completely obsessed with technical gimmicks, the Russian approach is still to keep it simple and easy to repair.

[andreas1033]

What you people totally ignore, is the original cold war, was agreed upon, by stalin, churchil, and truman, after ww2.

 

It ended, when the reasons for its being were completed.

 

For those that do not know

 

1) To find out what is the best way to run society, and people, and whats the best system.

2) To weaponise the earth against attack from outside.

 

Those two objectives were completed and thats why the cold war ended.

 

Usa in 90's renaged on the deal to end cold war, and tried to use it to destroy russia, as a functioning country. America thought russia was gone.

 

The cold war was ended by mutual consent, as like i said, the world had did what it set out too.

 

America totally broke the agreements on how it ended, and used the mutual agreement to pretend they won. They saw the chance to have a unipolar world.

 

Well thats long gone, and now we are back with a multi polar world, and there will never be another cold war. America has no interest in sharing the world with russia or china. The original cold war was agreed upon, it did not just happen. Stalin, churchil, and truman, all agreed on it after the ww2.

 

I personally had no interest in original cold war, as i was at school when it ended, do not know about you people.

 

So many americans are brainwashed into believing what happened. What ever was supposed to happen during 90's, america went back on there agreements, and no wonder russia understandably feel betrayed by giving there trust to america to mutually end cold war.

 

Russia to end cold war, totally gave america an enormous amount of trust. America in return kicked them to the ground in 90's, and tried to turn russia into a non functioning hell of a country, for future operation by american military to clean up.

 

Putin knows exactly what happened, and putin even wanted russia to join nato, but america refused. America thought they had the unipolar world, and russia for them was gone. Well russia came back against the wishes of america, and america has to accept russia is a voice in the world again.

 

Thankfully putin getting in, and putin getting rid of the people america put in there to ruin russia, turned russia around.

 

People should understand how these things happened, rather then just make judgements, on how american media push what they think happened.

 

The cold war ended when i was at school, and it ended with mutual consent. Its bull that the soviets what ever. The soviets had to tell the countries to end it, and let it go.

 

Like i said, the objectives of the original cold war were completed and they came to understand how best to run society for people, and the best overall system for people.

 

Thats a combination of usa, and soviet system. Today america is as much socialist, as todays russia is capitalist. You see, countries understood from cold war, what was right and what was wrong in running a fair society.

 

America during cold war, did as many human experiments as both russia or china, but you never heard of them.

 

There is no absolute capitalism, or absolute communism in todays world. Look at china, and how they are pushing hard to give drive to there society to create.

 

There will never be another cold war. America has no interest in sharing this world, and russia, and china whom both need each other, have no interest in being usa thumb or control.

 

So what ever the space race was(it was over before i was born i think, ie moon stuff), you can be sure, its far more complicated then what people were led to believe. I doubt it ever was the race those living during it, ever saw it it as.

 

More corporation happened during cold war, between usa, and russia, then people know. Even more so then today. Of course bad things happened too, but more things went on together then people know. Far more then today, like i said, america has no intention of sharing todays world, and they will never again be able to isolate russia.

 

You people take alot at face value, and the world is never so cut and dry.

[daveb]

alrighty then

[Tanwen]

I don't know about it being 'agreed', more it sort of happened and Churchill didn't have much say in it - at the end of WW II, Britain was wiped out (as was the rest of Europe)and far too occupied trying to restore infrastructure, and care for its population. I don't recall much co-operation between the USA and the USSR during the Bay of Pigs affair; but I was only about 13 or so at the time and rememeber being scared going to bed at night because we didn't know whether we'd wake up the next morning or if the missiles would fly during the night

But, back to the original topic - the mool landings were a magical time, it was incredible looking up at the moon and knowing that there were men up there -- surreal.I watched the landings on tv; grey and grainy images that captured the imagination. The first pictures of earthrise from the moon showed what a breathtakingly beautiful home we have and I cut out the pictures, pinning them up on the walls of the library where I was working.  It reinforced my commitment to environmental issues (I'd read 'Silent Spring' by Rachel Carson which was the first book of the environmental movement), we should take far more care of her.

[Kelly]

I recently attended an Apollo 11 anniversary dinner party. I did not know anyone at my table, but when we started talking shop, I learned that the woman sitting next to me is Colonel Nancy Currie-Gregg, a veteran shuttle astronaut of four space flights, including the original International Space Station build and a mission to service the Hubble telescope.

 

 

Yes, she really is that short. Too short to ride a Soyuz to visit the Space Station she helped build.

 

Wow. We had some mighty interesting discussions. For one of her missions, her team worked with John Glenn for a month. Glenn was still petitioning to go back to orbit, and he was finally allowed, at age 77. He would fly one mission, and her team would fly a few weeks after they got back. There were seven crew members in that flight--five experienced shuttle astronauts, Glenn, and the first Spanish astronaut (Pedro Duque). The five called the two John and Juan, and pranked them.

 

When the seven reached the top of the elevator to the shuttle, a SWAT team stopped them and said, "Boarding passes, please." The experienced astronauts dutifully pulled out shiny green boarding passes and handed them to the Swat team. Glenn was confused. He (and “Juan”) searched everything that they carried, and opened each zipper, looking for their pass.

 

“I don't recall getting a pass,” said Glenn.

 

“You can't board without one,” said a SWAT member.

 

He actually fell for it.

 

Shortly after that mission, Colonel Currie-Gregg's team launched. Her team had one rookie astronaut, so they played the same prank. But this rookie was a Colonel in the Marine Corps. He did not take this sh*t lightly. He picked up the guard and tossed him aside, and entered the shuttle.

 

Prank backfired. But, she did end up playing quite a doozy on everyone later on her next flight.