Sexuality, Romantic Orientation, and Gender Correlation With ASD

[QuirkyGeek]

I'm curious as to how identities vary between autistic people and allistic people. Some people and organizations say that there is a correlation between autism spectrum disorder and being asexual, aromantic, and non-binary, so I want to see if we can spot a correlation here on AVEN.

[no-longer-in-use]

I'm allistic, ace, alloromantic, and nonbinary!

[BambooRiver]

I'm allistic, asexual, aromantic, and I identify as agender (as I feel you can be nonbinary and still have a gender outside the binary while I myself feel no gender at all, so agender is more accurate for me).

 

I do know someone very close to me who has autism and they are (from my current knowledge) heterosexual, heteroromantic and cisgender. 

[matt_lock]

Autistic. Ace, aro, have no reason to consider myself non-male, so not non-binary.

 

My dad's self-diagnosed himself as autistic, and although I highly doubt he's aromantic (been in a loving marriage for over half his life) I do wonder if he's asexual, or somewhere on the asexuality spctrum.

 

A disproportionately high number of trans/non-binary people are autistic (7.8% of the sample according to linked study, as opposed to ~1% of general population). This study claims that autistics are more likely to be non-heterosexual, and, much more likely to be asexual.

 

This survey is interesting IMO, but I get the feeling that placing it on this website will get you a strong sampling bias, due to this website having a disproportionately high asexuality rate, and self-selection bias.

[Grumpy Alien]

Allistic? When did that become a term?

[Anthracite_Impreza]

30 minutes ago, disGraceful said:

Allistic? When did that become a term?

Has been for years, possibly decades.

[Grumpy Alien]

2 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Has been for years, possibly decades.

Is it not the same as neurotypical?

[Anthracite_Impreza]

2 minutes ago, disGraceful said:

Is it not the same as neurotypical?

 No, allistic just means 'not autistic', whereas neurotypical means not having any neurodiversity at all (bipolar, down's etc).

[Grumpy Alien]

1 minute ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

 No, allistic just means 'not autistic', whereas neurotypical means not having any neurodiversity at all (bipolar, down's etc).

Whoa okay so what counts as neurodiversity?

[Anthracite_Impreza]

5 minutes ago, disGraceful said:

Whoa okay so what counts as neurodiversity?

I'm quoting cos I'm lazy.

Spoiler

The neurodiversity paradigm was initially embraced by individuals on the autism spectrum,[17] but subsequent groups have applied the concept to other neurodevelopmental conditions such as ADHD,[18] developmental speech disorders, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, dysnomia, intellectual disability, and Tourette syndrome;[18][19] and mental health conditions such as bipolarity,[20][21] schizophrenia,[22]schizoaffective disorder, antisocial personality disorder,[23] and obsessive–compulsive disorder.[24]

 

[Karst]

Based on the people I know IRL, my anecdotal evidence would support the idea that neurodiversity and being LGBTQ+ tend to correlate with each other, but not so strongly that one predicts the other.

[HonoraryJedi]

I have an old and vague aspergers diagnosis (as it was called at the time), so it is a little unclear if I count as 'autistic'. I am definitely on the ace/aro spectrum though.

 

I think it is important to note that you don't get a random selection this way, so the answer from this poll should likely count as anecdotal evidence as well, as noted above.

 

Added personal experience, when diagnosed, I thought that my disinterest in sex and romance was tied to my asperger diagnosis. I was surprised when I found out that people on the autism spectrum also in fact fell in love. Then what was going on with me? So I certainly thought there was a connection at the time.

[no-longer-in-use]

14 hours ago, HonoraryJedi said:

I have an old and vague aspergers diagnosis (as it was called at the time), so it is a little unclear if I count as 'autistic'.

I believe because Asperger's is considered an outdated diagnosis, people who were diagnosed with it when it was a valid diagnosis are now considered autistic.

[Skycaptain]

Neuro diverse, asexual, aromantic, non-binary. In my case the latter has nothing to do with autism, I fall within the clinical definition of intersex. 

 

There have been a few tentative studies suggesting that there may be some correlation between autism, asexuality, aromanticism and non-binary gender identity, but, and it's a big but, I don't think there's been a sufficient sample size to draw clear conclusions yet 

[Haze.]

I'm autistic, ace, alloromantic, and nonbinary.

[Larkaloke]

This probably won't be the best sample you could get, but at least it'll be anecdotal. 

I'm aro, ace, and nonbinary, and almost certainly on the autism spectrum (it's been strongly suspected/assumed by most people close to me since I was a child, and my own research to try to disprove it only ended up making it sound very likely, but I've not been to see anyone who could officially diagnose). I should probably also point out that all of the other people I know - which is, as far as I know, three people - who are autistic are straight and cis. 

 

My take on this is that people who are autistic may be more likely to be out about whatever their gender identity and/or sexual/romantic orientation is, but not necessarily more likely to have any particular orientation or identity. 

[OmegaTheMetamorphicDreamer]

1) Asexual

2) NA

3) Gyneromantic (possibly pan)

4) NA

5) Agender

6) NA

[Guest]

As for me, I'm a high functioning autist, asexual and aromantic. I'm definitely a cis girl though!

 

I don't think it correlates with ASD but I've heard that there is a higher percentage of LGBT+ people (not necessarily ace) in the autistic population than in the allistic population. Maybe it's because autistic people tend to be very honest (and consequently out)? I don't know, but it's rather intriguing.

[Lost Robot]

Hi everyone, I'm probably not a textbook example of anything, but for what it's worth...

 

I'm non-binary, demi-sexual, panromantic and neuro-diverse (definitely on the autism spectrum, & currently being tested to see if I'm bipolar).

 

Although I was AMAB, I was diagnosed with what would have been female-presenting Asperger's syndrome, & told at the time that the "female-presenting" part could be something to do with my gender identity. The psychiatrist (I think - I get the technical terms muddled) even suggested that this could indicate female neurochemistry/biochemistry, which I suppose could make me technically intersex (although, to be clear, I haven't ever been identified as such medically). So, it was a kinda strange diagnosis all around...

 

Anyway, I've been part of the trans community for years, & I've met a lot of family on the spectrum (at least one of whom is medically intersex). Most of those people have had non-binary gender identities like me, so I guess in my own IRL experience, I'd say I've noticed a correlation - but obviously that's just one person's observations ^.^

 

Hope this was/will be helpful to somebody in some way! This is a really interesting thread ^.^

[DuranDuranfan]

I’m on the spectrum, I’m Grey-A(a mix of cupio and demi), heteroromantic and as for my gender identity/expression, right now I consider myself a gender nonconforming cis female, but leaning more towards a demiguy or androgyne identity.

 

Off topic, I purchased a chest binder and can’t wait ‘til it arrives! 😃

[Lost Robot]

Follow-up to my last post, but I was at a trans and non-binary meet-up in Brighton (UK) last night, and 3 of us were diagnostically on the spectrum (as well as a few others who suspected that they were and/or were awaiting their diagnoses). Found out that there's a bit of talk in the city about starting up an intersectional trans/NB/autism group, because the crossovers are seen as so common that people are really starting to notice...

 

Also, amongst these people, I met 2 new aces & one ace-questioning person (we identified each other by our ace rings like a secret society!) - it definitely feels significant, y'know... ^.^

[fooledbysecrecy]

on the spectrum(on the waiting list to be formally diagnosed), ace, most likely aro, gender questioning but somewhere under the nb/agender umbrella i suppose

[DragonSpirit]

I'm on the autistic spectrum, more to the normal side, I think. I'm aroace and cis. I don't think they're related, though, in my case.

[Lost Robot]

On 8/18/2019 at 10:17 AM, fooledbysecrecy said:

on the spectrum(on the waiting list to be formally diagnosed), ace, most likely aro, gender questioning but somewhere under the nb/agender umbrella i suppose

Hey, I just noticed your name on the Big Purple Picnic thread - I was there too, but I don't think we met! It would have been cool to talk to you ^.^ I generally stayed with the group I came with, and just broke off to spin poi at the back...

[fooledbysecrecy]

@Lost Robot hmm the people who ended up spinning back there were mostly from the group i came in, the waterloo group? 👀 maybe we met after all? 😂 i was so nervous i barely registered anyone's name tags. i was the one with green  & pink hair.

 

/ off topic

[Lost Robot]

32 minutes ago, fooledbysecrecy said:

@Lost Robot hmm the people who ended up spinning back there were mostly from the group i came in, the waterloo group? 👀 maybe we met after all? 😂 i was so nervous i barely registered anyone's name tags. i was the one with green  & pink hair.

 

/ off topic

Oh, I saw you & sat near you, but pretty much just waved awkwardly & asked you about your cool sunglasses on the walk over! I was in ace colours - purple blazer/tie, black trousers/waistcoat, & a black, white & grey checked shirt! (OgnamFire & I were accidentally uniform buddies...) I really should make more effort to talk to people, but when I'm in groups, I sort of go into "I'm confident really" fronting mode & end up kinda shutting down observationally... (my ASC is "female-presenting", so I "mask" a lot) Anyway, as a fellow a-spec, ace-spec enby, it's cool to find out (late!) that you were there! 😅 

[fooledbysecrecy]

3 hours ago, Lost Robot said:

Oh, I saw you & sat near you, but pretty much just waved awkwardly & asked you about your cool sunglasses on the walk over! I was in ace colours - purple blazer/tie, black trousers/waistcoat, & a black, white & grey checked shirt! (OgnamFire & I were accidentally uniform buddies...) I really should make more effort to talk to people, but when I'm in groups, I sort of go into "I'm confident really" fronting mode & end up kinda shutting down observationally... (my ASC is "female-presenting", so I "mask" a lot) Anyway, as a fellow a-spec, ace-spec enby, it's cool to find out (late!) that you were there! 😅 

ahh you were one of them with the cool outfits!! meant to say i loved that aesthetic but probably forgot.

 

i'm the same in groups as well, it's a lot more difficult when there's a lot of people around and you don't know what to focus on. but i suppose i managed to talk quite a bit with a few people, if someone initiates the conversation i can do it, i have no idea how to start one myself.

[WanderingKate]

I'm allistic./neurotypical, definitely on the aromantic spectrum, cisgender. 

Of the other aces I've met...I'd say its pretty varied. 

[Ferocious Cub]

Looks like just about everyone here identifies as being aspec.  Makes sense, this is AVEN.

A bit more autistic people identify as aro than allistic people.  Though, again we are talking about the folks who are on AVEN, so both those numbers are higher that usual.

And a good deal more autistics identify as nonbinary.  A full half of the autistics who are on AVEN.  Cool.

But would really love to see these results in a more typical pool...  Like are a full half of autistics really nonbinary, or only autistics who are also ace??

[matt_lock]

2 hours ago, Ferocious Cub said:

Looks like just about everyone here identifies as being aspec.  Makes sense, this is AVEN.

A bit more autistic people identify as aro than allistic people.  Though, again we are talking about the folks who are on AVEN, so both those numbers are higher that usual.

And a good deal more autistics identify as nonbinary.  A full half of the autistics who are on AVEN.  Cool.

But would really love to see these results in a more typical pool...  Like are a full half of autistics really nonbinary, or only autistics who are also ace??

I commented on that above.

On 7/13/2019 at 7:56 AM, matt_lock said:

A disproportionately high number of trans/non-binary people are autistic (7.8% of the sample according to linked study, as opposed to ~1% of general population). This study claims that autistics are more likely to be non-heterosexual, and, much more likely to be asexual.

 

This survey is interesting IMO, but I get the feeling that placing it on this website will get you a strong sampling bias, due to this website having a disproportionately high asexuality rate, and self-selection bias.

 

I also found a newly published article (https://www.europsy-journal.com/article/S0924-9338(19)30101-4/fulltext#sec0050 ) which has interesting results. 14% of trans+Non-binary people were diagnosed as autistic, vs 4% cisgender (although the 4% is above baseline autism rate, which feels iffy, although the paper acknowledges that). 28% of Trans+NB could have plausibly had undiagnosed autism, and nobody in the cisgender group.

 

Note that the above discusses autism given trans+NB, not trans given autism.

 

The article also claims that autistics have lower empathy than neurotypicals, which IMO is bullshit. This article ( https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-autism-can-read-emotions-feel-empathy1/ ) casts doubt on that claim. I would argue that at most, us autistics might have difficulty empathising with neurotypicals, and vice versa.

 

For more maths:

 

This article ( https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/read-the-journal/all-issues/2010-2019/2018/vol-131-no-1468-19-january-2018/7463 ) seems to imply that probably the trans+NB population is around 1% to 5%.

 

Let prob autism be A, let prob trans+NB be B. By Bayes, we have P(B|A) = P(A|B)*P(B)/P(A) . 

 

P(A|B) is 14-42%. P(A) is around 1%. P(B) is 1% to 5%

 

Using this, we find that P(B|A) = prob trans+NB given autism is somewhere between 14% and 210% (obviously wrong), with a geometric mean of 54%. So odds are around 50% of autistics are trans or NB. Which more or less matches the survey. Huh.