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DuranDuranfan

A question for anyone AFAB

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DuranDuranfan

As an AFAB, when I was little, I remember being told that I had to wear undershirts. These are the little girls equivalent of a bra. I think I was told to start wearing them when I was in grade 2 or 3. “You need to be more modest.” I was told. I hated wearing them. Especially in the summer. Who wants to wear two layers of clothes in 25 degrees plus(Celsius)heat?! 

 

And one time, I went topless at a water park. I didn’t have my bathing suit and as far as my kid logic was concerned, both girls and boys are flat before puberty so I didn’t see it as problematic. I remember this because I was wearing a Real Ghostbusters t-shirt and shorts set. I only wore the shorts. But I got stared at. I think even my mom got questioned about it too.

 

Come to think of it, if boys and girls start out flat anyway, why are girls still expected to cover their chests even before puberty? Girls swimwear is still designed for coverage of the chest to this day.

 

So, any other AFABs here had these experiences when you were little? 

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Just Somebody

That's  a socio-cultural-historical behavior reinforced and imposed by cisgender men, native American females don't have to cover their nipples in their societies, nor do many females in many different societies in different places and epoques. Where I live (countryside ) I still see young girls bare chest as long as they don't have noticeable boobs .

 

It's  ridiculous behavior tho, like many societies accept females to show the whole boobs but the nipples are a no no, while the men can still go bare chest even if they have boobs larger than many women (transgender women and transgender men who have boobs are an exception because their nipples are still read as inappropriate just like their existances in many places ).

 

 

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sewbot

Imparting shame or sexual values via clothing, did not strike me as high importance on the list of strange things inferred of the adult world. Another nonsense 'because everybody else is' rule, which only carried a great deal of meaning to those who sought enforce it.  

 

 As a rule I instinctively limited my interactions with those people and their ilk. It felt irrational, demanding, projecting, hypocritical, and petty.

 Those formative fashion expectations have since evolved into a bigger, stranger debate about what I ought or not wear but I find that is still rooted in expectations that my body 'belongs' to these others who hold these judgements.

 

 

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DuranDuranfan
48 minutes ago, Just Somebody said:

That's  a socio-cultural-historical behavior reinforced and imposed by cisgender men, native American females don't have to cover their nipples in their societies, nor do many females in many different societies in different places and epoques. Where I live (countryside ) I still see young girls bare chest as long as they don't have noticeable boobs .

 

It's  ridiculous behavior tho, like many societies accept females to show the whole boobs but the nipples are a no no, while the men can still go bare chest even if they have boobs larger than many women (transgender women and transgender men who have boobs are an exception because their nipples are still read as inappropriate in many places ).

 

 

Yeah it’s ridiculous that man-boobs are acceptable but cisgender women boobs aren’t. WTAF?!

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RoseGoesToYale

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?! (Disclaimer: I seem to have had a vastly difference experience with gender than most people in my country for reasons unknown)

 

I've never experienced anything like that. I never wore undershirts growing up, ever. Not even in winter. Granted, I do live in Florida, where summer days are about 32/90 degrees at 70% humidity or more, and wearing an extra layer of clothing could be the difference between a child who's alive and a child who's dying of heatstroke. Not kidding, I decided to wear long sleeves one summer day, and almost wound up in the hospital. So that might be why. The first time I ever wore something under my shirt was a training bra when I was 11.

 

31 minutes ago, Just Somebody said:

That's  a socio-cultural-historical behavior reinforced and imposed by cisgender men

I never experienced this, either. No boy or man ever commented on my clothing choice. My dad never cared. Male teachers at school never cared. Boys at school never cared, even in middle school they said nothing (might be because they knew the girls would kick their tail if they did). Since I was six, I've never worn a bra at home with my mom and stepdad, and my stepdad does not give a flying fig newton. The only people who've ever cared were girls/women outside my immediate family.

 

When I was 11 in private school, one of the girls in the younger grades came up to me and asked if I was wearing a bra. I said no, and she said everyone could see my chest, and she called other girls over and they started making a huge deal about it. It made me feel self-conscious and ashamed, and I started crying. After that, I wore training bras. The few times I accidentally waltzed out the door without a bra, it was the girls who were giving shocked looks and making gestures, not the boys.

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griffinej5

I did not. I didn’t ever want to be topless. I don’t think I ever wore an undershirt growing up, and I rarely do now. Only a tank top under something that’s a little lower cut than I like. However, a friend of mine had this experience with her young daughter at swimming lessons. She didn’t want to wear a top, so my friend didn’t make her. Nobody said anything for a while, and then one day, they got pulled aside and something said about it. She pushed back on this a bit, a 5 year old girl doesn’t look different from a 5 year old boy. Where my niece goes to swim lessons, they suggest all the kids wear a rash guard, even though it’s an indoor pool. 

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kelico

I, too, wore undershirts...probably later than other little kids did...and the thing is, even when I grew boobs, I still only wore an undershirt because I was really averse to bras. So I was self-conscious because I was one of the only girls not wearing a bra in middle/high school. I didn't understand why I HAD to wear a bra. But I felt self-conscious anyway because it was frowned upon. They're uncomfortable and it just didn't feel right to me. Heaven forbid a vague shadow or shape of a female nipple, but not a male, show through a shirt.

 

So yeah...I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but I completely understand where you're coming from. 

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Just Somebody
48 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?! (Disclaimer: I seem to have had a vastly difference experience with gender than most people in my country for reasons unknown)

 

I've never experienced anything like that. I never wore undershirts growing up, ever. Not even in winter. Granted, I do live in Florida, where summer days are about 32/90 degrees at 70% humidity or more, and wearing an extra layer of clothing could be the difference between a child who's alive and a child who's dying of heatstroke. Not kidding, I decided to wear long sleeves one summer day, and almost wound up in the hospital. So that might be why. The first time I ever wore something under my shirt was a training bra when I was 11.

 

I never experienced this, either. No boy or man ever commented on my clothing choice. My dad never cared. Male teachers at school never cared. Boys at school never cared, even in middle school they said nothing (might be because they knew the girls would kick their tail if they did). Since I was six, I've never worn a bra at home with my mom and stepdad, and my stepdad does not give a flying fig newton. The only people who've ever cared were girls/women outside my immediate family.

 

When I was 11 in private school, one of the girls in the younger grades came up to me and asked if I was wearing a bra. I said no, and she said everyone could see my chest, and she called other girls over and they started making a huge deal about it. It made me feel self-conscious and ashamed, and I started crying. After that, I wore training bras. The few times I accidentally waltzed out the door without a bra, it was the girls who were giving shocked looks and making gestures, not the boys.

I was trying to say that who came up with these moral rules were cisgender men... in the cultures of nearly all societies females weren't the ones to take decisions even if about personal matters like their lives, futures or about their bodies, off course it was men who "decided for them" it was inappropriate for them to show their nipples in public,  just like it was inappropriate for them to not follow gender roles of submission.

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DuranDuranfan
46 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?! (Disclaimer: I seem to have had a vastly difference experience with gender than most people in my country for reasons unknown)

That’s very unusual, since I live in Canada so one would think that the experiences would be similar. Could it be the era? For me this occurred in the late 80s.

 

I can’t seem to remember any other girls my age at that time having to wear undershirts. But then again, I never changed in the common area of the change room for PE, where I would’ve been able to observe this, because even at eight and nine years old I was self conscious about my appearance. This stems from the bullying.

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Acing It

That's just plain silly. For children that age it shouldn't make a difference (says the person who was forced to do this as well, apparently because it would prevent me from becoming ill - against chills).. hmmm. On the other hand, I was allowed to go swimming (more like paddling) in my pants only, one time, in a public open air swimming pool, when I was four or five because I didn't have any swimwear (times were different back then!).

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RiliCat

I never really had any problems. My mom made me wear undershirts (she said they'd keep my kidneys warm), but I never objected, and I didn't really care that I had to wear them. Besides, I'm kind of self-conscious anyway.

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DuranDuranfan
19 hours ago, kelico said:

I, too, wore undershirts...probably later than other little kids did...and the thing is, even when I grew boobs, I still only wore an undershirt because I was really averse to bras. So I was self-conscious because I was one of the only girls not wearing a bra in middle/high school. I didn't understand why I HAD to wear a bra. But I felt self-conscious anyway because it was frowned upon. They're uncomfortable and it just didn't feel right to me. Heaven forbid a vague shadow or shape of a female nipple, but not a male, show through a shirt.

 

So yeah...I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but I completely understand where you're coming from. 

I think that’s the reason why my parents wanted me to wear an undershirt. They were worried that it was immodest to show nipples, even with a regular shirt on and even though the breast buds(the first stage of growth) hadn’t formed for me at that age. 

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Morgan123

Society has come up with the strange notion that bras are for modesty purposes. No- they are to stop me tits bouncing around. I doesn’t make sense why AFAB people should hide their breasts, apart from thinly veiled misogyny.

 

Or maybe that’s just me. Who knows?

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BlueSpruce

My mom usually me wear undershirts or thick shirts. She was super strict about modesty. She wasn't too happy about my sisters and me wearing swimsuits at all; if we ever wore a bikini or went topless in front of her, I'm sure it would have been a big issue. She seemed to have this idea that if we were showing any skin we'd get harrassed or even assaulted by men. I know she was just trying to protect us, but it's sad that we live in a world where she felt like she had to worry so much about that in the first place.

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DuranDuranfan
On 7/6/2019 at 3:46 AM, Morgan123 said:

Society has come up with the strange notion that bras are for modesty purposes. No- they are to stop me tits bouncing around. I doesn’t make sense why AFAB people should hide their breasts, apart from thinly veiled misogyny.

 

Or maybe that’s just me. Who knows?

Especially if you happen to be, blessed, with big ones. 

 

On side note, I like to call my bras my Over The Shoulder Boulder Holders or Double-barrelled Slingshots.

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Iridium

Personally, I would rather not see people of any gender topless out in public, unless it's a very hot day and/or I'm at the beach.  Some (mostly cis) men wildly overestimate how attractive their bare chests are.

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Albine
On 7/7/2019 at 9:37 PM, DuranDuranfan said:

Especially if you happen to be, blessed, with big ones. 

 

On side note, I like to call my bras my Over The Shoulder Boulder Holders or Double-barrelled Slingshots.

Over the shoulders boulder holders! LoL Interesting thoughts from   perspective of having  male breast augmentation procedure and living as a man without and now with boobs, changing dynamics. As a kid / teen / young adult while I was never big into going shirtless I had the freedom to do it and did so really only on hot days or at a pool or at the shore no issues. Now that I have boobs I guess technically I could still do so, however I would not even think of it as I would not be comfortable going out with a top. first time I went out to a pool party after my surgery which I was so excited ended up having a panic attack and that was wearing a modest swim top. Took me over a year to feel confident to go to a pool. Again my situation is a little different but  at least for me I would not feel very secure going shirtless or even braless out in public now 

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DuranDuranfan
6 hours ago, Albine said:

Over the shoulders boulder holders! LoL 

Thank you, I’m here all week!

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henshin

No never experienced this as a child. I loved having my shirt off and think my parents would have told anyone to fuck off if they'd commented. Wore a vest in cold weather but that was definitely about warmth and not modesty!

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KoiFishShoes

I remember owning undershirts when I was little in the late 80s, but I don't remember ever actually wearing them. We didn't have air conditioning yet, so I doubt my mother would have made me in the summer since we also slept in as little clothing as possible.  I remember owning swimming trunks, too, but I don't remember wearing them without a top. 

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Remmirath

I never was told to wear undershirts in general, no, and certainly not when I was a little kid. When I was a teenager and still not wearing a bra (something I only grudgingly started doing when I was eighteen and got back into doing more exercise and sport) I wore an undershirt while cast in shows so I'd have something on while changing costumes - people changed in large groups, not alone - but that's it. Nobody ever suggested more than that to me. I layered my shirts of my own accord during that time and tended to wear super-baggy shirts, but that's because I was hopelessly trying to pretend that the problem of having those things on my chest at all didn't exist. (It didn't work.)

 

I was told that I couldn't go out without a shirt on (again, nobody cared about this when I was a little kid), but that's because it's illegal here.

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DuranDuranfan
8 minutes ago, Remmirath said:

I was told that I couldn't go out without a shirt on (again, nobody cared about this when I was a little kid), but that's because it's illegal here.

I checked your location. It’s illegal in Michigan?! Just for AFABs?! Lemme guess AMABs can go topless but for them it’s not public indecency?🤬🤬🤬

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PoeciMeta

I never cared about covering my chest when it was flat. Why would I? 

I never really wore bras except for medical examinations where I was likely to need to take off my t-shirt, like for my back. Otherwise, I went directly from just a baggy t-shirt to unsafe DIY binding.

When I was little, I would frequently not even wear the top of my swimsuit, it just wasn't necessary. Everyone seemed to think it was normal, so I couldn't have cared less. 

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OutsidersEyes

It honestly bothers me that I'm expected to wear a shirt, especially in the summer when it's in the 90's. And I hate bras. But I've never had the nerve to go without a shirt because the reaction to it would be obvious. 

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Remmirath
On 11/13/2019 at 6:57 PM, DuranDuranfan said:

I checked your location. It’s illegal in Michigan?! Just for AFABs?! Lemme guess AMABs can go topless but for them it’s not public indecency?🤬🤬🤬

Unfortunately, yes.

 

When I was informed of this - which was somewhere around 2002 or 2003 - I was given the impression that it was illegal in the majority of the United States. Some quick research shows that it is now only explicitly illegal in 17 states (which does still include Michigan), so hopefully that's changing.

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DuranDuranfan
11 hours ago, Remmirath said:

Unfortunately, yes.

 

When I was informed of this - which was somewhere around 2002 or 2003 - I was given the impression that it was illegal in the majority of the United States. Some quick research shows that it is now only explicitly illegal in 17 states (which does still include Michigan), so hopefully that's changing.

That is bullshit!

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PoeciMeta

I already said it somewhere, but I think expecting little girls to cover their non-existent breasts is like anticipating the sexualisation of their body, and ew. 

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E Wildflower

My grandmother insisted that I wear undershirts starting at around second grade (age 7/8). I also hated it mainly because it was too warm.

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MaeveTheRaven

I think I wasn't told to cover my chest up until the age of 10 or so, until my boobs started to come out. We only wore undershirts on the colder days of winter, too.

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cp1213

I don't really like undershirts or bras in the firsts place but I wore it anyway cause my parents forced me to. 

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