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1 minute ago, Sally said:

I've involved in advocacy around homelessness in my city and state for almost 20 years -- meaning I've known a lot  of homeless people during that time -- and I've never -- NEVER -- met anyone who has been able to make more money while  they are homeless than they would while working.  And in fact, many people who are homeless in my city are working, and if you don't think it's difficult to be homeless and try to maintain a job, I invite you to try it.

I think what people are talking about are the "fake" homeless. People who have homes, but who pretend to be homeless and panhandle. There are some places where a person with a convincing story can make quite a bit of money.  

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Just now, uhtred said:

I think what people are talking about are the "fake" homeless. People who have homes, but who pretend to be homeless and panhandle. There are some places where a person with a convincing story can make quite a bit of money.  

Not in my big city, and I doubt that's true in any other big city.  And in small towns, people would know they're not homeless so that wouldn't work.  People who have homes generally either have to  pay rent  or pay mortgages, and to do either they'd have to work.  Tell me why, instead, they'd be out on a street corner, in all weather, making not quite a bit of money.  That's an urban myth (just like a lot of other beliefs about homelessness).

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6 minutes ago, Sally said:

Not in my big city, and I doubt that's true in any other big city.  And in small towns, people would know they're not homeless so that wouldn't work.  People who have homes generally either have to  pay rent  or pay mortgages, and to do either they'd have to work.  Tell me why, instead, they'd be out on a street corner, in all weather, making not quite a bit of money.  That's an urban myth (just like a lot of other beliefs about homelessness).

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Some-of-SF-s-panhandling-moms-really-are-11818771.php

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/bart-panhandlers-begging-roma/

 

Not just the US

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7783587/fake-homeless-woman-uk-begs-owns-flat-prostitute/

 

And also online

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/us/gofundme-homeless-scam-guilty.html

 

 

I wish it wasn't true, but there are people who will take advantage of the charity of others.  Back when I was in college a scam artist got a lot of money from students by pretending to be in desperate need.  (figured out when people who were taken compared stories). 

 

I've had remarkably few "homeless and hungry" people actually accept my offer to buy them food at a local fast food place.  One let me buy him food, then just threw it on the ground and cursed me. 

 

There are people who really need help, but they don't compete that well with the professional scam artists.

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Mostly Peaceful Ryan
23 minutes ago, Sally said:

I've been involved in advocacy around homelessness in my city and state for almost 20 years -- meaning I've known a lot  of homeless people during that time -- and I've never -- NEVER -- met anyone who has been able to make more money while  they are homeless than they would while working. That's a really silly thing to say.  In fact, many people who are homeless in my city are working at low-paid jobs, some of  them fulltime, and if you don't think it's difficult to be homeless and try to maintain a job, I invite you to try it.

It’s really not silly. I have no idea where you live Sally, but in Arlington virginia where I used to work, There was one guy who begged on the same corner everyday and I asked him how much he would get and it was well over minimum wage and it was tax free He wasn’t there because he couldn’t work it was the way he could make the most money and he didn’t want to work. Now this is in a rich area of the United states, but I talked to some down in Orlando  as well when I lived there and it was the same with many I talked to. I can see there are places in america where begging won’t get more money than minimum wage, however there are places that if someone begs on the right corner at the right time of day they actually will actually make well over minimum wage. We might also be talking to two completely different type of homeless person, if you aren’t talking the ones begging on the streets and just talking to ones in homeless shelters or soup kitchens, than you are likely missing these people because none of them would go to a shelter or soup kitchen from what they told me because they didn’t like it.

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Having just rolled out of Victoria BC and watching the migratory tent cities move about, or having taken a walk down the lovely Pandora avenue, and having conversed with many homeless people as I traveled about, I can say this.

 

It's not an easy fix. Some people are homeless because it's in the mindset. They don't care about anything, so they can simply live homeless and on charitable handouts because society enables it. Some of them have major mental health problems, and Canada's mental health treatment systems and facilities are failing. Some of them are druggies, hooked by their dealers. And some of them where even people who held jobs, but couldn't pay rent because housing costs are absurd these days.

 

This is a multi-sided problem that needs to be approached from multiple angles.

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One of the major issues here is inadequate mental health care.  Many of these people could be functioning "members of society" if they had the right support.

Another is the high cost of living in some urban areas- New York City, for example.  The government needs to fund more affordable, or even free, housing.

 

The evidence is clear that simply providing housing, in addition to being a humane approach to the problem, actually saves money in the long run.  People who have a decent place to sleep are less likely to end up in jail or the emergency room.

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On 7/2/2019 at 8:55 PM, thylacine said:

I feel sad about people who are homeless or otherwise living in poverty, but it seems to me that a majority of people just don't give a damn about other people's suffering.  It's this awful selfish society we live in, I guess.

I wouldn't say awful. It's just hard to have true caring feelings for complete strangers, especially since some of them can be terrible human beings themselves to some degree.

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Went for a walk through a park a block away that has a creek in it, the entire thing was filled with tents and sleeping bags. It was horrible. And I though about it... that is exactly where I would go.

 

I was also researching local protocol. The city I live in has had a dramatic rise in homelessness. Lots of counts of drug/alcohol police calls, but then... just as many mental health calls. The police have no idea what to do. Though they did ask people not to shoot them (literally), which was nice.

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21 minutes ago, Zagadka said:

Went for a walk through a park a block away that has a creek in it, the entire thing was filled with tents and sleeping bags. It was horrible. And I though about it... that is exactly where I would go.

 

I was also researching local protocol. The city I live in has had a dramatic rise in homelessness. Lots of counts of drug/alcohol police calls, but then... just as many mental health calls. The police have no idea what to do. Though they did ask people not to shoot them (literally), which was nice.

We destroyed our mental health system years ago and those people ended up in our jails and on the street.  Drugs have also crippled so many people who could have been productive and treatment programs are almost non existent.  Put all that together and you have the homeless problems we have today.  No easy answer but currently we have a government who is not trying to find answers.

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On 03 July 2019 at 1:19 AM, Sir_The_Last said:

Where is the out cry for the homeless in USA? If you live in California you see camp after camp in big cities like LA But smaller cities also have a huge problem. No more housing is the cry... But what do you think ?

 

In the 80s ,90s we had malls filled with customer. We had clean air ...  Now we have homeless camps ... And many other types of camps..  what happened?

It's not just an issue in the US, it's happening everywhere, it's as bad here in the UK too, over here, I blame people of my age group, they bought homes, selling them on quickly to make a profit on them, now, there's loads of empty properties, properties owned by the banks/building societies/lenders that can't be sold due to the outrageous prices being asked for properties, over here, a previous government sold all the council properties in the late 70's, early 80's, again, the people of my age bracket bought them, sold them, moved on to something bigger, not necessarily better, mortgages were being given away at much higher amounts than they should have, then we had the big, worldwide recession of 2007/8 which we haven't really recovered from, many are still paying negative equity on their properties, some let their homes go, then the greedy landlords came in buying to let, they had the money, now they let the properties out, don't maintain them properly, charge an absolute fortune in rent, wages aren't high enough to cover the costs of rent, people can't save enough for a deposit on a home of their own, outpriced by rent, they end up on the streets, all of this started off by greed, I'm sorry to say that over here, it was mainly people who are now in their 50's and older that are the cause of this, I live in the same studio apartment I bought back in 1996, I spent over 75k renovating the property, if I were to sell it, due to the location, I may be lucky enough to get 50k for it when it's all complete, do I care? no, do I want to buy something else? no, it's big enough for my needs, okay the area isn't the best, the location isn't the best for me for work, but with all I've done to the place, if I moved, I'd only have to start again as my place is totally individual, it's not like anywhwere else I've seen or lived in, it appeals to some, others hate it because it's small and very basic, but I don't want to sign myself back into debt with another mortgage, especially at my age, and, although I've spent a small fortune on my home, I did it to live in, not to sell, not to make a profit, possibly why I'm brassic all the time.

 

It's the case of the rich getting richer by taking away from the ones that should be making them richer, to the point where they make people homeless, governments help support that too, but then, you have to ask yourself, when do you see a poor politician, CEO, banker etc, even sports stars, movie stars, musicians etc, we even have the Times rich list published every year, if I had the money of Trump, May, Blair, Merkel, Tusk, Putin etc, I'd be putting my money to good use, especially as I know I could look after all those around me financially and still never get to spending a small part of my fortune in my lifetime.

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On 7/2/2019 at 9:28 PM, UnderworldFan1988 said:

Some people just like being homeless, I honestly have been thinking about just living at a campsite in a really nice tent because I just love love looove nature. I would be 100% happy with that, to be honest!

I doubt people like being homeless due to poverty, sleeping in a cardboard box in the winter.  What you describe is more like camping out, but probably you could go home to a warm bed and a hot meal anytime.

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I've been camping my entire life. I'm an Eagle Scout. I would be happy to run off and camp for life. I know plenty of places around Southern California that I could comfortably illegally live in the wild, if I had access to food.

 

But I definitely view not having access to things like healthcare or changing that situation as entirely unacceptable, and that is where most homeless people are.

 

Not having a mailing address or a place to shower is enough to disqualify you from both a job and government assistance, and that is just ridiculous. Those are the people that need help the most. I was recently talking to someone about how I would be incredibly disadvantaged without my cell phone (which I hate using, but have because things simply require it). In a society with those kind of conveniences...

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InDefenseOfPOMO

Somewhat related: I read not too long ago that economic contraction, competition from online retailers, etc. are not the reason so many brick-and-mortar retail stores closed in the U.S. in a short time. Those things may have played a small role, but the real cause was that there were too many stores. Policies implemented in the 1990's--I don't remember if they were federal, state, local, or all of the above--encouraged the construction of a lot of big box retail space. That space needed to be leased, so a lot of stores were opened--way more than can be supported.

 

It would not surprise me to learn that similar market distortions in housing contribute to a rising homeless population.

 

We need to learn to be disciplined and live within our means. Are there any powerful elites calling for that? I don't hear any.

 

Would a presidential candidate who tells voters that we need to start living within our means have a chance at being elected? A real leader, not another vending machine saying that he/she will dispense the most goodies, would be nice for a change.

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If college enrollments drop because of tuition hikes and loans, we may see a long term change. A lot of young adults enter a market they can't afford, especially in rapidly expanding cities (not only the large ones, the expanding ones like Atlanta). People just can't afford it now, after decades of being told that everyone NEEDS to go to college. I have no idea what the future holds (though I would support far more attendance of community colleges instead of 4 year universities for most people).

 

So many things have happened over the last 20 years that it is hard to point to causes for widespread homelessness, but I can't imagine that healthcare and wages don't matter.

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I'm from San Francisco (a city infamous for its homelessness problem) and it's crazy how bad it's gotten lately. I've never been pressed for donations by random people while riding public transit until recently. Having traveled around the world last year, it seems like so many places have seen their homeless populations skyrocket. I think it's completely related to skyrocketing property prices and the consolidation of wealth.

 

It can be pretty hard to access social services here. Mental health? Even though I have health coverage, my friends and I have had trouble getting low-cost counseling services. I once tried to apply for state disability benefits for my mom - when I had a question and tried to call the hotline, I immediately got a message saying there were too many people on the hotline waitlist so I couldn't join and got bumped off the call immediately. What about food stamps? I recently applied and although went through the whole application process, got a rejection letter because my case worker pretended she never interviewed me. It's hard for people to get help. And it's hard for people to admit that they need help.

 

My last job was at a food bank and I was struck by how often people would tell us that they didn't normally use food bank services... it's just that this month they didn't as many hours at their job as they normally do. This was a one-time handout, they swore. A lot of people are embarrassed to seek help and despite getting a little bit of help from organizations like ours, I don't doubt that some of them were under threat of eviction.

 

My friend lives across the street from a school. There's a family that lives in a trailer in the school parking lot. My friend and her sisters wondered how they could best help the family... her sister, a social worker, suggested that the family probably would prefer to be ignored in comfort. The school seems aware that they're living there. That's sad.

 

But another very sad story reached me this week: a homeless guy had been sleeping in lecture halls at my alma mater. One morning, the students were puzzled at the smelly guy in the corner of the room. Turns out he was dead (!!!). The students were understandably spooked, but god it happens - a few months ago, there was another dead body (probably another homeless guy) found on the school track.

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@RoseGoesToYaleI recently saw a video on YouTube in which there are streets upon streets of empty mansions, some part built, some in very poor ststes of decay, all of which have enough room to house plenty of people, some been lived in, some have swimming pools that are bigger than the place I live in, no taxes are being paid on these properties, some, they don't even know who owns them, the ownwers are keeping them as land in the area is at a premium value, as far as I'm concerned, there should be a cap on rent charges from private landlords countrywide, this would stop so many taking up properties from the ones that will never be able to afford to buy or rent in an area that's more convenient for work purposes, and these mansions, they should be reclaimed by the government and turned into state owned properties and converted into dwellings for the less well off and those that wouldn't otherwise be able to get a roof over their heads, it would be expensive, but by charging a reasonable rent, they'd get their money back, in some cases, those mansions could be divided up into maybe 20 plus individual apartments. Sadly, our government and all other political parties are no longer based around the working classes, they're all based around the multi millionaires, we have more politicians than ever before over here, when do you ever see a politician that's not a millionaire? these politicians have no idea what it is like to not be able to afford basics like food or heating, clothes etc and it's only getting worse as they look after the rich that give them their backhanders. Over here now, we're wasting multi billions on this Brexit rubbish, it's all run by a bunch of billionaire dictators who want to charge each other a fortune to be in an exclusive club which basically pays those in charge billions a week in wages, we also pay for their homes, their entertainment meals, transport etc, but that's considered more important that they're looked after rather than the ones at the bottom who ask a minimum wage to contribute to making the wealthy even more wealthy.

 

Homelessness, poverty, crime, addictions etc in the majority of cases come from the greed of the haves being looked after at the expense of the have nots

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16 hours ago, Zagadka said:

So many things have happened over the last 20 years that it is hard to point to causes for widespread homelessness, but I can't imagine that healthcare and wages don't matter.

They absolutely do.  

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  • 1 month later...

I'm currently homeless. It sucks more than I can explain. But by gods, I'm trying. I'm trying.

 

Essentially, my roommates couldn't handle me becoming disabled rather quickly, and one of them freaked out and went nuclear on me. I left the area for my own safety. I've been estranged from relatives since I was a teenager (they were the direct cause of me being homeless at 15), and I constantly have to answer the question, "Don't you have friends or family that can help you?" with, "If I did, I wouldn't be seeking assistance." Everyone assumes that you haven't tried to cover the most obvious basics that are the first ideas to pop into their heads.

 

Being homeless has caused and worsened the mental health issues I do have. What little counseling that's available has wait lines for months, and doesn't actually help much. Applying for benefits is like trying to solve a complex puzzle with thousands of pieces, you have absolutely no reference picture to go on, and there are no edges. A shocking number of people running the organizations that give assistance don't care about their jobs, and treat you like dirt. God forbid you miss one qualification or date that you weren't told about--if you aren't excluded from that assistance completely, you'll have to start over again, which could take weeks or even months. The "system" honestly feels like it's set up to cause people to fail at every step.

 

Most non-governmental agencies that offer assistance rarely offer much to begin with, and hardly anyone is truly connected. I can't tell you how many resource lists I've been given that are 90% inaccurate. The "resources" either don't offer what's described at all, have requirements a lot of people could never hope to meet, or just refer you to someone else (who frequently says, "No, we don't actually offer that service, I don't know who told you we do"). The shelters are always full, or have requirements I myself can't meet--I'm too much this or not enough that. I've put myself on all the lists I can find. Most of the time, I simply don't have enough problems to be considered for aid. I'm disabled, but not listed as such officially on any paperwork yet. I'm a woman, but I don't have children and I'm not pregnant. I'm homeless, but I'm not on any substances other than a couple of legitimate prescriptions that I honestly don't really want to take in the first place. Don't even ask me how many caseworkers I have, because I stopped counting after a half dozen.

 

It's taken me months to get to a point where I feel I can remotely consider myself kind of stable right now. I applied for welfare benefits, and after a stupid SNAFU with the caseworker, got them (less than $200 per month for food seems like an insult when there's nowhere to store or cook it, but it's something). I managed to obtain a very discounted bus pass through one organization, and have been able to keep it loaded every month since I got it. I got myself a tiny PO Box, so for most things, I now have an address. A friend got me a membership to the local YMCA, so I can take showers and have a small locker to store things in (and hey, the pool and spa and sauna aren't too bad after a particularly hard day). I tend to stick around an area that has a mall with some seating spaces, and a Starbucks that's friendly and hasn't blocked off their outlets to charge my devices. I finally just got a part-time job, and hope to gods I can keep it long enough to make a difference in my situation, though I have no illusions that I'll be sleeping indoors anytime soon.

 

Despite the amenities I've managed to acquire, things are by no means easy. I try my damnedest to not "look" homeless, because I know I'll immediately be thought less of and treated differently. Laundry is difficult, because my locker isn't big enough to hang things in so they don't wrinkle. I can't keep many clothes to begin with, so my wardrobe is extremely limited. I'm currently sleeping on a bench in a fairly public area that I feel safe in, but only very late at night. It's off the ground, but uncomfortable, and I have to leave no trace by about 6AM or risk being fussed at. I'm not getting a fraction of the sleep I need, and it greatly affects everything I try to do. I am constantly concerned that the authorities will ask me to sleep somewhere else, or worse arrest me, and then I'll have a criminal record just for existing. Someone at work will catch me bringing my blanket because I work too late to get back to the Y and swap out my night and daytime stuff... and word might get around. If someone decides to have an altercation with me for whatever reason, I'm in no position to defend myself. If things fall apart, I've got no resources to fall back on. Nobody who can do anything about it gives enough of a damn. Literally everything is either physically, mentally, or emotionally exhausting (frequently all three).

 

There are days where I'm pissed off that I failed suicide. Days where I know that no matter what I do, nothing that matters is going to happen. Days where I question WTF the point of doing anything at all is, because nobody's going to care. Even if I crawl out of this pit, it can happen again in an instant because someone in a position of power relative to myself does something I can't fight back against.

 

I don't fear any concept of Hell. It can't be much worse than being homeless.

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In baltimore I saw dozens of houses that tenants were kicked out of and left to rot and diminish just so some pathetic rich college can build new dorm rooms after they tear the houses down.

By far the most disgusting and saddening thing I've seen in baltimore.

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FindingTheta

There was one that did pretend to be homeless in my city, but the percentage of such people that do this is so low that it doesn't affect my giving.

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On 8/30/2019 at 6:32 PM, Scooter said:

I'm currently homeless. It sucks more than I can explain. But by gods, I'm trying. I'm trying.

 

Essentially, my roommates couldn't handle me becoming disabled rather quickly, and one of them freaked out and went nuclear on me. I left the area for my own safety. I've been estranged from relatives since I was a teenager (they were the direct cause of me being homeless at 15), and I constantly have to answer the question, "Don't you have friends or family that can help you?" with, "If I did, I wouldn't be seeking assistance." Everyone assumes that you haven't tried to cover the most obvious basics that are the first ideas to pop into their heads.

 

Being homeless has caused and worsened the mental health issues I do have. What little counseling that's available has wait lines for months, and doesn't actually help much. Applying for benefits is like trying to solve a complex puzzle with thousands of pieces, you have absolutely no reference picture to go on, and there are no edges. A shocking number of people running the organizations that give assistance don't care about their jobs, and treat you like dirt. God forbid you miss one qualification or date that you weren't told about--if you aren't excluded from that assistance completely, you'll have to start over again, which could take weeks or even months. The "system" honestly feels like it's set up to cause people to fail at every step.

 

Most non-governmental agencies that offer assistance rarely offer much to begin with, and hardly anyone is truly connected. I can't tell you how many resource lists I've been given that are 90% inaccurate. The "resources" either don't offer what's described at all, have requirements a lot of people could never hope to meet, or just refer you to someone else (who frequently says, "No, we don't actually offer that service, I don't know who told you we do"). The shelters are always full, or have requirements I myself can't meet--I'm too much this or not enough that. I've put myself on all the lists I can find. Most of the time, I simply don't have enough problems to be considered for aid. I'm disabled, but not listed as such officially on any paperwork yet. I'm a woman, but I don't have children and I'm not pregnant. I'm homeless, but I'm not on any substances other than a couple of legitimate prescriptions that I honestly don't really want to take in the first place. Don't even ask me how many caseworkers I have, because I stopped counting after a half dozen.

 

It's taken me months to get to a point where I feel I can remotely consider myself kind of stable right now. I applied for welfare benefits, and after a stupid SNAFU with the caseworker, got them (less than $200 per month for food seems like an insult when there's nowhere to store or cook it, but it's something). I managed to obtain a very discounted bus pass through one organization, and have been able to keep it loaded every month since I got it. I got myself a tiny PO Box, so for most things, I now have an address. A friend got me a membership to the local YMCA, so I can take showers and have a small locker to store things in (and hey, the pool and spa and sauna aren't too bad after a particularly hard day). I tend to stick around an area that has a mall with some seating spaces, and a Starbucks that's friendly and hasn't blocked off their outlets to charge my devices. I finally just got a part-time job, and hope to gods I can keep it long enough to make a difference in my situation, though I have no illusions that I'll be sleeping indoors anytime soon.

 

Despite the amenities I've managed to acquire, things are by no means easy. I try my damnedest to not "look" homeless, because I know I'll immediately be thought less of and treated differently. Laundry is difficult, because my locker isn't big enough to hang things in so they don't wrinkle. I can't keep many clothes to begin with, so my wardrobe is extremely limited. I'm currently sleeping on a bench in a fairly public area that I feel safe in, but only very late at night. It's off the ground, but uncomfortable, and I have to leave no trace by about 6AM or risk being fussed at. I'm not getting a fraction of the sleep I need, and it greatly affects everything I try to do. I am constantly concerned that the authorities will ask me to sleep somewhere else, or worse arrest me, and then I'll have a criminal record just for existing. Someone at work will catch me bringing my blanket because I work too late to get back to the Y and swap out my night and daytime stuff... and word might get around. If someone decides to have an altercation with me for whatever reason, I'm in no position to defend myself. If things fall apart, I've got no resources to fall back on. Nobody who can do anything about it gives enough of a damn. Literally everything is either physically, mentally, or emotionally exhausting (frequently all three).

 

There are days where I'm pissed off that I failed suicide. Days where I know that no matter what I do, nothing that matters is going to happen. Days where I question WTF the point of doing anything at all is, because nobody's going to care. Even if I crawl out of this pit, it can happen again in an instant because someone in a position of power relative to myself does something I can't fight back against.

 

I don't fear any concept of Hell. It can't be much worse than being homeless.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation.  What you say states exactly what people experiencing homelessness in my city, Seattle, and so many other cities and towns go through, every day.  It is shameful that this rich country -- the US -- allows so many of its residents have such difficult lives.  I won't go into a political rant in this thread but damn, it IS political, because our political leaders could make legislation that funds support for those in need.   You are doing everything you can to help yourself and I admire and respect you and others going through the same things.  

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Homelessness is greatly increased here in the UK too.  The use of food banks has shot up.  In work poverty has increased.  Universal Credit is being rolled out and leaving terminally ill people having to reapply for benefits because they didn't die soon enough.  The current systems of social welfare have become cruel, private companies have responsibility for assessing people for benefits, the safety net we all thought was there when we needed it has been taken away.  Even the state pension, which is pitifully low in this country, has been threatened with rising to an age of 75 to qualify, which means many working class people especially would never reach retirement age.  Something has to change.

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I recall an article I read about this: Even if there might be facilities or shelters for homeless, they feel safer out on the streets than in those facilities. The facilities are overpopulated, require a waiting period, won't guarantee privacy, are not always in good condition, and residents risk being robbed by others seeking shelter. These people feel as if they truly have nowhere to go, so they just give up.

 

 

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16 hours ago, uhtred said:

@Scooter

Many of us never see your side of homelessness.  What sort of changes would make the system work for you.

For myself? I think organizations just being more coordinated in general would be extremely helpful. All those resource lists I mentioned? It's practically a part-time job just to continually go through everything, call every number, make notations on the page about what they do and don't actually offer, record who I spoke to (because it's extremely common to get different answers from different staff people), correct their office hours, and determine whether or not I need to repeatedly call them about assistance or cross them off the list entirely. Many organizations have multiple names and numbers for the same thing. Honestly, it could easily be a full-time job for an outside person (or even a few) to just continually record and update this information for a webpage or something. It is immensely frustrating to have to do this so often, especially when getting so little in results. Personally, I have given up on trying to actively find a safe place to sleep indoors. More than half the amenities I do have access to, I had to procure by myself because I could not get help from the exact type of organizations that exist to do so. I tried and failed so many times, I took other humans out of the equation as much as possible. It's costing me far more than it should, and I can't save any money, but it's the only way I've found to get what I need.

 

Because people can become (and stay) homeless for so many different reasons, in so many different situations, I don't have any specific or major ideas on how to change the system to work better for everyone. There are just too many variables. But I do have some broad concepts that would make everything, even in its current status, a whole lot better.

  • More reasonable qualifications. Making people jump through 22 hoops that all have different requirements and due dates is enough to make even the most settled and organized person want to rip their hair out. I guarantee at least half the people running assistance programs would not be able to meet most of the qualifications and dates set if pressed to do so. Also, most of us aren't psychic. Don't disqualify us from things that had deadlines we were never made aware of.
  • Accountability. My welfare caseworker was new. He had a backlog for a long time. Instead of rush-approving my cash benefits because I'm homeless (which, when approved, would potentially make me eligible for other benefits elsewhere), he just sat on it. I had all of my qualifications in well before the deadline, could never reach him on the phone, and nobody else could tell me why my case wasn't approved yet. After a month and a half of calling or showing up at the office every few days as I was able, I finally demanded a supervisor and threatened a sit-in and reporting to the local news. The hang up? He was too embarrassed to ask for help. Once it was apparent I wasn't leaving without results, my case was pushed through in about 10 minutes. That caseworker now literally hides every time he sees me come into the office. Because nothing happened to him for not doing his job, I now triple-check everything I have to do there, and only speak to supervisors. Which leads into my next point.
  • More compassion. I've worked plenty of service jobs. I get how it is. People have off days. We're all only human. But if it's your job to help people in difficult situations, for god's sake, act like you give half a crap. Don't treat us like dirt under your shoes. It's hard for most people to ask for help even when they really need it. Don't make it even harder, and don't talk down to us. If you don't want to be there, I guarantee you'll have a much easier time finding another job than any of us will. In fact, many of us would be happy to do your job.
  • Some common sense. I live in the Los Angeles area. Don't tell me I need to try and find an apartment for $200. That will cause my eyes to pop out of my head and question what substance you're on, or what planet you're from. Don't give me fewer dollars in food stamp benefits when I'm homeless--I cannot store or cook food, and therefore mostly rely on fast food or prepared foods, which jack up the price considerably. Stretching the budget can be done when including church meals and outreach centers, but it is very difficult and doesn't always work due to timing or transportation. Don't schedule me for required job search training when I already have a job. Don't tell me there's an app to log into my account when it's only available for iPhones and I have an Android.
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12 hours ago, Feys&Florets said:

I recall an article I read about this: Even if there might be facilities or shelters for homeless, they feel safer out on the streets than in those facilities. The facilities are overpopulated, require a waiting period, won't guarantee privacy, are not always in good condition, and residents risk being robbed by others seeking shelter. These people feel as if they truly have nowhere to go, so they just give up.

 

 

I can attest to this. As I stated before, navigating the system is a nightmare in itself, and things can get ten times more complicated when throwing a shelter into the mix. Every single one of them has different qualifications and rules. Sometimes those rules can make it next to impossible to get assistance outside of the shelter. Many have strict hours and simply don't care if you have a job that requires you to work outside of those times--you're just SOL. Some will require you attend therapy or classes, which seems reasonable. But I had to attend AA meetings that interfered with my job hunting in order to stay at one shelter. I've had maybe a dozen drinks in my entire life. It's great that those services exist, but forcing people who don't need them to go is a complete waste of time and resources. I have no idea how to contribute to that sort of conversation.

 

I stayed in one many years ago that forbade cell phones, but the staff was very bad about taking messages. How the heck were we supposed to get interviews and calls from jobs? I kept mine anyway, and the other residents helped me keep it hidden as long as I occasionally let them use it (a more than fair trade, I thought). I was able to get employed and move out within 3 months, which resulted in my being banned from said shelter ever again. Their program was a strict 6 month deal, and getting on my feet before that was unacceptable.

 

Most of the shelters that I could qualify for right now are down near Skid Row, and they generally have very lax requirements. But it would take me multiple bus transfers and at least 2-3 hours to get down that direction in the first place. Several people have been killed in that area in just the past couple months. Drugs and weapons are rampant. I currently stay in an area that really doesn't offer much in the way of homeless services, but I've decided I would rather deal with that than trying my luck downtown. I would get even less sleep there with one eye open than I do here outside with the few hours available to me at night. You have to weigh your options and determine what you will and won't put up with. It's harder for me to get help where I am, but in general I feel safe.

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@Scooter your comments all seem reasonable to me.   I don't know how to make those things happen. Around here every new politician claims that they will fix the problems, then nothing changes.   There is actually quite a bit of money spent on services to the homeless, but it all seems to go to useless bureaucracy. So much money is wasted trying to stop money from being wasted - its insane. 

 

On a different track.   One problem here is that real estate is insanely expensive. What about the idea of providing good housing for the homeless, but in a lower cost area.   I don't mean some dump but say Toledo rather than New York city.  There are a lot of places were $500/month pays for a quite reasonable apartment, here $1000/month is a complete dump.    OTOH it means moving away from friends .  Still it seems crazy to try to house homeless is some of the most expensive real estate in the world.  Some people in my group commute over an hour each way because they can't afford to live in the city on a $150K/year salary. 

 

 

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You would think location would make things cheaper, but it isn't necessarily that easy. One area is usually less expensive than another for many reasons, and that usually includes what's available. You can live further out of a big metropolitan area, but at some point you're going to have to travel back there anyway because something you need (a doctor appointment, business with some governmental office, etc.) isn't going to be something you can do locally. The more people in an area, the more services... which then drives up costs. That's yet another cycle that needs to get under better control somehow. Real estate in general (at least in the US) is completely out of control right now. Almost everything is overpriced to the point of just being obscene.

 

And yes, the bureaucracy is straight-up stupid these days. There's article after article, debate after debate, motion after motion for building more homeless shelters and housing here as well. Where is it? Tied up in stupid discussions mostly centering around NIMBY mindsets. I honestly feel like at some point, the powers that be simply need to buy the land/property they feel will best suit the need, build what needs to be built, and just let the neighbors kvetch about it. They're going to complain no matter what happens with the homeless in their areas anyway, whether we actually get housed or not. "We don't want our property values to go down!" Well, Karen, they're going to go down if people have to live on the curb next to your doorstep anyway, so either shut your trap and deal with it like a decent human being, or move. You've got the power to do that. Or better yet, help out so we don't have to live on the curb next to your property! </rant>

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@Scooter  I wasn't so much thinking of something distant form an urban center, but rather of moving to an urban center where prices are not as high.  While a lot of real estate pries are high in the US, some areas are insane even by US standards. 

 

I agree on the bureaucracy. I think part of the problem is that there are no "powers that be"- its bureaucracy all the way down.  Just an endless morass of bureaucrats, and local politicians who do whatever they can to get elected - because if they don't, someone who did takes their office.    Its not clear to me how to get a handle on the problem. I don't know how to make the local government actually act. 

 

Helping out is tricky. As you said, you dress in a way to make it not obvious that you are homeless  - if I saw you I wouldn't know you needed help.  Other times people can be actively frightening.  A guy on the train recently looked homeless, but was carrying a small sharpened spike as a weapon.  To dangerous to approach.    Other times the problem is just so big.  I walk down the streets of a nearby city and there are homeless everywhere - it just seems so unfixable as an individual.   I give people money sometimes but its a drop in the bucket.  I want the government to fix things, and I'm happy to pay my share of what it takes - but somehow it never happenes. I saw that the budget to house homeless here ends up at $300,000 per year per person housed.  I don't know where to begin to fix that

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have "liked" just about every comment here because I'm impressed with the knowledge and sympathy/empathy expressed by all of you, and also depressed because it's proof that this is happening in areas/countries which are "rich" in resources.  Governmental officials are not doing their duty to humanely spread those resources to everyone in society, instead depending on charities and wealthy individuals to provide funding.   Charities and wealthy individuals can decide, at any moment and for any reason, to stop the funding; only dedicated governmental funding can change this situation.   

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