Poll of your thoughts/opinions on multi-stalled public restrooms

[Anonymous Axolotl]

(This is my first poll, so I'm really sorry if I'm messing up somehow.) I also want to apologize for so many questions and answer choices, but I wanted to be as thorough as possible. If you have any other question/answer ideas to add on, please let me know.

 

I’m really curious about what others think of this sort of thing since I’m honestly sick of the binary restroom model. Why aren’t bathrooms open to all genders and you just use any stall, while urinals are off on a little side room of their own within the restroom, or all within one or more “stall(s)” themselves? I know that gender-neutral restrooms are an environment that can make people feel uncomfortable or even unsafe, but I am personally fine with them and would find them very beneficial, as long as people can be respectful and have common sense. I really hope for a time when everyone can feel safe and find it natural to use gender-neutral restrooms, but if anything, that is many years down the road.

 

I’ve drafted a couple of gender-neutral restroom layouts in my mind and discussed the topic with someone in the education system. I was told that gender-neutral multi-stalled restrooms "can’t" be implemented at public (high) schools because people would go into a stall together and have sex. I’m sure some other aces can relate when I say that something like that never would have crossed my mind had it not been pointed out to me. (And do people really do that? Disgusting!) Also, that argument seems incredibly weak considering the exact same thing can happen in binary restrooms.

 

With that being said, I do know of a place where I live that recently remodeled to have eight to ten single-toilet restrooms next to one another that aren’t gendered. It looks a bit funny to see a bunch of doors lined up so close to each other down a hall, but at least it’s something. However, I can imagine it’s much more expensive to construct and more annoying to maintain than one large restroom with multiple stalls considering the individual sinks/soap dispensers/paper towels/trash for each room in addition to the toilets.

[uhtred]

Hmm, none of those quite apply to me. 

 

I never feel "unsafe" in any of those situations. I find it socially awkward  / embarrassing to use a toilet, especially to dedicate in close proximity to another person. That is worse if the person is opposite gender. 

 

That said, I'll deal with it. 

[Alawyn-Aebt]

15 minutes ago, Anonymous Axolotl said:

I was told that gender-neutral multi-stalled restrooms "can’t" be implemented at public (high) schools because people would go into a stall together and have sex. [. . .] Also, that argument seems incredibly weak considering the exact same thing can happen in binary restrooms.

Exactly.

I have overheard more than one person at Community College mention how certain restrooms are rarely occupied and not under surveillance (wink wink, nudge nudge), and those were gendered restrooms, the thought that non-gendered restrooms would be the only ones to have those issues are ludicrous. More likely, maybe, but it happens anyways.

 

I will admit the thought of two people having sex in a restroom is really gross, the when I overheard that conversation the first time my mind was trying to think what "doing it" meant and other euphemisms in the context of a restroom, not in the context of sex.

21 minutes ago, Anonymous Axolotl said:

can make people feel uncomfortable or even unsafe

This is probably just me but as someone who, following the anthropological definition of gender is male, the thought that something would be socially uncomfortable or awkward never crossed my mind. I understand the safety concern, but again that would seem to effect the afab crowd more than me.

[matt_lock]

I don't mind using public bathrooms. I prefer home, but that's more convenience/familiarity.

 

My only objection to gender-neutral bathrooms is that I find urinals etc. more convenient than toilets, but aside from that minor inconvenience, I wouldn't mind (plus, some male bathrooms only have toilets anyway, so there actually wouldn't be any difference).

 

I haven't seen any multi-stalled public gender-neutral restrooms in this country, but I don't get out much, so I can't guarantee they don't exist.

[Anonymous Axolotl]

@uhtred

Sorry I wasn’t able to make enough diverse answers, but thank you for sharing. I hadn’t even thought of a more in-between (in this case, “discomfort”) option for the safety question.

 

@Aebt

Yeah, putting all of the blame on that sort of thing happening only in non-gendered restrooms just seems like a thinly veiled excuse to not have them. That, or it really didn’t even cross some people's minds that it can (and does) happen in gendered restrooms.

 

@matt_lock

I think it’d be possible to have gender-neutral restrooms with urinals if the urinals were all in a stall together or in a little side room within the restroom itself. For the second case, the side room could have its own door or dogleg at the entrance of the urinal area, preventing the urinals from being seen if you're in the general part of the restroom.  If they’re not out in the open, I can’t see them causing much of a problem (if any) for people who are averse to them, and for people who do use them, I can imagine that slight bit of privacy may be beneficial. At worst, that extra door or additional steps to where the urinals are might be a slight annoyance.

[everywhere and nowhere]

As far as I know, there are no gender-neutral toilets in Poland. So no option is fully correct for me.

As for the rest... I'm really not sure. I know one thing: I'm a woman and what I know of male restroom behaviour feels somewhat disgusting to me.

Aspect 1: urinals. The default if a man only needs to urinate. Really, where is intimacy?! People should be taught that they have a right to value privacy more! This really reminds me that in this case I'm better off as a woman: as a nudity-averse girl I was at most considered a weirdo, if I was a nudity-averse boy who, for example, refused to participate in willy comparison rituals, I could even get beaten by other boys.

Aspect 2: the disproportionate value some men attach to Standing To Pee (hence capital letters - I used them as a form of parody). The mere fact that men are usually physically able to stand to pee doesn't mean that they should - sitting down on the toilet is more hygienic, at least at home. (Although, yes, in a public toilet it's different - standing is more hygienic, I just don't see a reason for urinals to not be placed in small locked stalls. I really know a thing or two about it as a woman who, due to lack of physical fitness, is unable to urinate in a "skier" position and always needs to put toilet paper on the seat so that I can sit down without touching it.) I have noticed a phenomenon I call "sexual hyperdimorphism" - that is, artificially creating gender differences where there are none. (For example, both adult men and adult women naturally have hairy legs - but the sociocultural standard demands hairy legs in men and smooth legs in women. Again, I refuse obedience; I stopped shaving my legs over ten years ago.) Isn't position used to urinate another example of sexual hyperdimorphism - that is, men refusing to sit to urinate only because it's coded as "female"?

By the way, it leads to much more serious problems. Think of hypospadias, an intersex condition in which the urethral meatus isn't placed on the tip of the penis, but further down. In fact, the further down it's placed (in extreme cases at the perineum, fully below the penis), the more intermediate is the appearance of external genitals. Urethra is typically inside the penis and below the clitoris, so hypospadias suggests that the genes "didn't know" whether it's supposed to be a penis or a clitoris. The condition is typically "repaired" by extending the urethra with skin grafts - however, it doesn't work well (also because a natural urethra is lined with mucous membrane, not skin), often leads to inflammations, occlusions etc. So: a boy's ability to Stand To Pee and blend in is perceived as more important than his health?!!!

Aspect 3: not washing hands after urinating. Men will sometimes defend their laziness by saying that "urine is actually sterile", or - this is what I've been told myself - that I'm "exercising body hatred" and shaming others by demanding that a friend washes his hands after urinating. Sorry, I really don't want to indirectly touch someone's penis (not even speaking of doing it directly ) and framing it as "body hatred" is huge exaggeration.

(A Polish saying which really suits such situations: literally "to make a pitchfork out of a needle". )

[SithLord]

I don't think I've ever seen gender-neutral multi-stalled public restrooms. The gender-neutral ones I saw in Sweden were single stalled, or else I didn't pay attention. Everywhere else I've been, the bathrooms have been single-stalled if gender-neutral and divided by gender if multi-stalled.

 

My opinion though is it's extremely inconenient that I can't just go into the boy's restroom during a big event when guys go in and out in a minute but you have to wait fifteen minutes just to see the inside of the bathroom for the girl's restroom. I've had times where my parents would tell me it was okay just to use the boy's room if there was no one around and it was an emergency, and times when one bathroom was broken so everyone using the same one was the only solution. 

 

I really don't think it's dangerous at all. Only thing would I'd find it gross if dudes whipped out their penises to use urinals around girls. Not that it's dangerous because if someone was going to do something (why would they need a gender-neutral bathroom to do so?) but because not all girls have been exposed to male anatomy and might find it gross in general. Boys kind of have to see that gross stuff, just like girls have to deal with the gross stuff about being biologically female.

 

The only time I've felt unsafe in a bathroom is when it was in a more shady neighborhood or there were creeps hanging out nearby. Those would make me feel unsafe regardless of if the stalls are single-stalled or gender-neutral.

 

 

 

To deviate from this topic, though, can I point out how I hate American bathroom stalls in general? A kid can just crawl under it and there are small gaps along the side of the door too. It's extremely creepy thinking someone could just crawl under and into someone else's stall. I prefer the kinds I've seen outside the US where they're more like mini- rooms with less openness in general.

[Grimalkin]

Here's the thing: I would love to have more gender-neutral bathrooms around. I especially think it's silly to have single-room bathrooms be gendered; when there's someone occupying one, I just go in the other anyway. 

 

The only problem is that sometimes, female-exclusive bathrooms are the only way women can escape a potentially unsafe situation or unwanted male attention in public. And it would be kind of silly to have one bathroom designated "female" and one bathroom designated "gender neutral." 

 

In a perfect world, we could have three bathrooms. Gender-neutral, male, female. And in smaller places that can't afford that, they could just do gender-neutral single-room restrooms. 

[RakshaTheCat]

24 minutes ago, Nowhere Girl said:

if I was a nudity-averse boy who, for example, refused to participate in willy comparison rituals, I could even get beaten by other boys.

Luckily it wasn't that bad, no one ever wanted to compare things with me. That said, I don't think I ever been in school toilet, so maybe that's how I missed it... 😺
 

28 minutes ago, Nowhere Girl said:

I have noticed a phenomenon I call "sexual hyperdimorphism" - that is, artificially creating gender differences where there are none. (For example, both adult men and adult women naturally have hairy legs - but the sociocultural standard demands hairy legs in men and smooth legs in women. Again, I refuse obedience; I stopped shaving my legs over ten years ago.) Isn't position used to urinate another example of sexual hyperdimorphism - that is, men refusing to sit to urinate only because it's coded as "female"?

I definitely agree. I'm actually wondering how many women shave their legs just out of fear? There seem to be strong pressure to do that, it's terrible... These are actually double standards I think, since men can have hairy or smooth legs, only women are expected to be always shaved. I'm glad you've freed yourself from it, keep it up! Wonder what I could do to promote choice in that regard?

Also, standing position for urinating while using normal toilet is like the stupidest thing ever, I have no idea why it's so widespread... I got taught to do it like that too, but quickly reverted to sitting way since it's way more practical and comfy.

 

[Zagadka]

There are a lot of gender-neutral single-stall (well, room) restrooms around here. Very few multi-stall.

 

When I was in college we did have gender-neutral restrooms with many stalls (in 1998). The parents freaked out at the orientation lecture, but the students never had a problem. After a week we only thought about it because one student's parents flew in from India and we had to switch the signs so they thought the floors were entirely gender segregated. That entire experience made me far more comfortable with the idea.

 

For comfort, we basically declared 2 stalls urinals. I'm sure the cleaning staff loved that.

 

The main issue I see is for women to feel safe, and not being one, I can't speak for that. I would think, though, that having a gender-neutral bathroom would create fewer situations where people are alone.

 

The curve here is if you feel safe in *any* public restroom. A lot of people don't. And it depends on the restroom's location. A lot of men will say "Yea it is safe", but only when they just need to pee.

[daveb]

I've been to a place in my town that has multi-stall gender neutral restroom, and it works quite well. The way it's setup is each toilet is in a little room, but the sinks for washing up after are all in one big main room that the "stalls" branch off from. It's in a restaurant that hosts a lot of LGBT events, so I don't know if that makes any difference. But to the best of my knowledge there have never been any issues and people seem to be fine with it. And there is no reason why anyone would be exposed to anyone else's genitals (at least not without their consent  ).

 

I am not a fan of stalls that are too open, with large gaps near the bottom and between the door and frame. I am less a fan of open urinals. In some places there isn't even any sort of divider between them. Still, most guys aren't "looking" or wanting other people to "look". Relieving oneself is personal, private, and feels vulnerable. Who wants to feel in any kind of danger while doing that?

[Anonymous Axolotl]

1 hour ago, Nowhere Girl said:

The mere fact that men are usually physically able to stand to pee doesn't mean that they should - sitting down on the toilet is more hygienic, at least at home. (Although, yes, in a public toilet it's different - standing is more hygienic, I just don't see a reason for urinals to not be placed in small locked stalls.

I completely agree about it being much more hygienic to sit, but I’ve heard that due to the anatomy of the male sex, it’s actually easier to void the bladder when standing than it is sitting down. Though I wouldn’t know myself due to being the opposite sex. I also think it's vulgar that urinals are so open. I can’t imagine having to be in that sort of situation with strangers.

 

1 hour ago, Nowhere Girl said:

For example, both adult men and adult women naturally have hairy legs - but the sociocultural standard demands hairy legs in men and smooth legs in women. Again, I refuse obedience; I stopped shaving my legs over ten years ago.

The double standard that women are expected to shave and men aren’t is infuriating. I don’t shave my legs either, but I have to wear compression stockings for medical reasons, so the status of my legs being shaved or not isn’t noticeable anyway because of that. I really feel for women pressured into feeling like they have to shave, or being shamed because they don't.

 

1 hour ago, Nowhere Girl said:

not washing hands after urinating. Men will sometimes defend their laziness by saying that "urine is actually sterile", or - this is what I've been told myself - that I'm "exercising body hatred" and shaming others by demanding that a friend washes his hands after urinating. Sorry, I really don't want to indirectly touch someone's penis (not even speaking of doing it directly ) and framing it as "body hatred" is huge exaggeration.

Ugh, don't even get me started on the not washing hands thing. I know that it happens with people of the male sex, but it’s utterly disgusting and surprisingly common where I live for it to happen with the opposite as well. (Especially on college campuses, for some reason.) I remember one time as I was washing my hands in a women’s restroom, I saw someone walk directly out of a stall then approached the sinks and mirror only to check their make up, and then walked out of the restroom. Not even glancing at the sink! I gave them a disgusted glare, but they didn’t notice. I get annoyed enough if they head straight to the door from the stall, but that one especially rubbed me the wrong way since they were leaning over a sink! What do they think it’s there for? Decoration?

 

48 minutes ago, sithgirlix said:

My opinion though is it's extremely inconenient that I can't just go into the boy's restroom during a big event when guys go in and out in a minute but you have to wait fifteen minutes just to see the inside of the bathroom for the girl's restroom. I've had times where my parents would tell me it was okay just to use the boy's room if there was no one around and it was an emergency, and times when one bathroom was broken so everyone using the same one was the only solution. 

I can't agree with you more! I've gone into men's rooms for the same reason if need be. At one location I frequent where I live, the men's restroom is far closer (about 20 meters) to everything then the women's, which is pretty upsetting. You have to walk down a dead-end hall to get to either restroom, and you pass the men's restroom then continue walking for an absurdly long distance (in terms of how far away from one another restrooms typically are) before getting to the women's. I sometimes use the men's if I desperately need to go or don't feel well enough due to health reasons to walk all the way to the women's and back.

 

59 minutes ago, sithgirlix said:

To deviate from this topic, though, can I point out how I hate American bathroom stalls in general? A kid can just crawl under it and there are small gaps along the side of the door too. It's extremely creepy thinking someone could just crawl under and into someone else's stall. I prefer the kinds I've seen outside the US where they're more like mini- rooms with less openness in general.

I think one of the major oppositions to gender-neutral restrooms in the US is because of how the stalls are like that. I feel like if they were more like how you describe they are in other counties, there wouldn't be nearly as much discomfort around it, but there's no way to tell for sure. However, I will say that those gaps under stalls in US restrooms could have potentially saved my life when I was in elementary school if the scenario was real and not a drill. There was a surprise fire drill one time that occurred during a lunch break while I was in the restroom. The two other people in the surrounding stalls got out of there as quickly as they could. I, on the other hand, was struggling with the lock (the lock had always been a little uneven and difficult to use, but it was completely jammed this time) and could not get it to unjam with my weak elementary school strength. I ended up having to crawl under the stall (much to my disgust, but it was better than staying stuck) and head to the evacuation location. I was lectured by a teacher for not showing up promptly, but when I explained things and showed them the issue with that stall, they forgave me and the lock was soon replaced.

 

1 hour ago, Grimalkin said:

The only problem is that sometimes, female-exclusive bathrooms are the only way women can escape a potentially unsafe situation or unwanted male attention in public.

This is a very valid point that never crossed my mind. I've thankfully never been in that position myself, but I have heard of cases where women's restrooms have sheltered women from unsafe scenarios or unwanted attention.

 

59 minutes ago, Zagadka said:

When I was in college we did have gender-neutral restrooms with many stalls (in 1998). The parents freaked out at the orientation lecture, but the students never had a problem.

That's pretty awesome to hear about a gender-neutral restroom as early as then! It seems like gender-neutral restrooms are only something that's been mentioned within the past decade, but knowing they've been around for longer is nice to know.

 

26 minutes ago, daveb said:

The way it's setup is each toilet is in a little room, but the sinks for washing up after are all in one big main room that the "stalls" branch off from.

This is the type of set up I think would be ideal, and if you add another little wing with some sort of dividing area (such as one large "stall") branching off from the main/sink room, you could add urinals if you want.

 

 

[RoseGoesToYale]

I think the way we've been designing public restrooms (and definitely so in my country) has been all wrong for over 100 years. They're unsafe, inefficient, awkward, barely sanitary, and degrading.

 

I'll begin on the issue of safety, since this poll focuses on that. Public restrooms have long been sites of violence, bullying, and fear, for everyone regardless of anything, because of a fundamental design flaw of multi-stall restrooms: they only have one entrance and exit, and they're the same door. Any person can follow you in, and once you're in, you're trapped. This is made worse by "privacy designing", i.e. walls, curvatures, or tiny corridors that obstruct views into the room, supposedly so the opposite sex doesn't accidentally "see something" (and the heck are they going to see? People don't pull their pants down outside the stall!) These also increase the amount of movement necessary to exit the restroom in an emergency. Compound this with that restrooms are often tiled and have thicker walls to accommodate plumbing, which makes it harder for screams to travel outside (while inconveniently amplifying every sound made within). Finally, stalls often have flimsy doors, poor locks, and are open top and bottom, so hiding in a stall is almost completely useless. In short, public restroom were designed for quickness/cheapness rather than safety.

 

Some arguers against gender-neutral restrooms say it's because they don't want the opposite sex seeing/hearing what they do in the bathroom because it would make them self-conscious. This is bs, because all public restrooms are designed to make you subject to scrutiny, even from your own sex and/or gender. See "stalls" above. Something embarrassing happens? Everybody in the room can hear that shit, literally. And being that the sinks are located outside the stalls, except for accessible stalls, you are forced to exit and face the shame of your fellow restroom goers and it's awful. Approximately 6.6% of the population has paruresis, or difficulty going in public restrooms. The frame-n-shame interior design of these rooms does not help. For men it's worse, because stalls are for number two and there are always fewer stalls than urinals, and urinals force you to stand in a position where another person next to you could see your business (as if being made self-conscious about penis size weren't bad enough...)

 

Some women argue gender-neutral bathrooms would inconvenience them because men won't put the seat down. As a woman, I will say we need to stop griping about this. It takes exactly 1 second to put the seat down. Your entire world will not be inconvenienced by taking this action. It will be inconvenienced, along with the rest of the people in the bathroom, if you stand there ranting about all of manhood to a very disunderstanding toilet. Just put the seat down and go.

 

Speaking of inconvenience... women's bathroom lines. The way binary public restrooms are designed, there are either equal stalls per gender, or equal stalls in the women's to stalls/urinals in the men's. This cannot ever work, because female anatomy dictates it taking longer, especially if you're menstruating or pregnant. To be fair and conducive to dignity, women's restrooms need twice the number of stalls the adjoining men's room has, but even this is untenable, because apparently that could cost too much. So then what?

 

Then you've got logistics. If one toilet in one bathroom in a building overflows, that entire bathroom has to be closed for sanitary reasons. Which means the other bathrooms have to now handle the dispersed volume of goers. Which means lines for all genders, running around the building with screaming bladders, and possible accidents. Just... no.

 

The only solution I see is genderless single-room water closets, each containing one toilet, one sink, and one changing table, the size of what current accessible stall dimensions are, dispersed in adequate numbers throughout the building at strategic locations. Ideally each room would be equipped with an assistance button for emergencies and a status indicator outside so there's no unnecessary queueing. It would silence every detractor and solve gender-related issues. Why wouldn't everyone want their own private room?

[SithLord]

2 hours ago, Anonymous Axolotl said:

At one location I frequent where I live, the men's restroom is far closer (about 20 meters) to everything then the women's, which is pretty upsetting. You have to walk down a dead-end hall to get to either restroom, and you pass the men's restroom then continue walking for an absurdly long distance (in terms of how far away from one another restrooms typically are) before getting to the women's. I sometimes use the men's if I desperately need to go or don't feel well enough due to health reasons to walk all the way to the women's and back.

I've been in buildings where there was only one restroom on each floor, so if you were on the first floor but the girl's bathroom was n the second, guess who's taking a trip? It was so stupid.

[Zagadka]

There is a big problem with usable space for restrooms. They are usually crammed into whatever room is left over, since floor space is limited in most places. Stalls are the best answer anyone has come up with. And they absolutely suck. I think the best we can do is design better stalls, but this is a problem that has been attacked for decades, and there have been few lasting solutions that survive all of the trials. Restrooms are heavily used, frequently physically abused, have a lot of surfaces, contain complex mechanisms (toilet paper rolls, toilets themselves), very unsanitary, the opposite of private... it is easy to meet one of those goals, but all of them is tough. They have to be cheap, durable, replaceable, cleanable, and accessible. Everything down to the screws has to meet these requirements.

 

That is what we're left with: tiles, metal frames, huge gaps, recessed equipment.

 

And overcoming taboo isn't easy. Even discussing hygiene is hard, especially if you talk about periods etc. Men don't even like talking about women farting (though for some reason find it hilarious in other men). My main concern is safety, but then you have to ask how safe gendered restrooms are in the first place. We need to address these issues, but people just don't talk about them.

 

I do find the number of women's stalls versus men's to be just insane though. 90% of the time in a crowded men's room, most of the stalls are just used as urinals anyway. You might have one or two stalls being pooped in, but the rest...

[Anonymous Axolotl]

3 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

These also increase the amount of movement necessary to exit the restroom in an emergency.

This is something that's bothered me for a long time. I especially think of it in the context that almost all doors into/out of a restroom open by pushing on the door to enter/pulling on it to leave. This makes zero sense to me. In an emergency, wouldn't it be logical to be able to push the door to evacuate? People aren't going to want to pull the door towards them when they're trying to go outward. Make the door go in the same direction that you're going in to save time.  Plus, a push-exit door would be much more sanitary. You wouldn't have to use your hands on the handle at all. Considering how many people don't wash their hands, this just seems like it's better for everyone.

 

7 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

Compound this with that restrooms are often tiled and have thicker walls to accommodate plumbing, which makes it harder for screams to travel outside (while inconveniently amplifying every sound made within).

I've never thought of this, but it's very true. I mentioned earlier a case when I was stuck in a restroom:

2 hours ago, Anonymous Axolotl said:

I will say that those gaps under stalls in US restrooms could have potentially saved my life when I was in elementary school if the scenario was real and not a drill. There was a surprise fire drill one time that occurred during a lunch break while I was in the restroom. The two other people in the surrounding stalls got out of there as quickly as they could. I, on the other hand, was struggling with the lock (the lock had always been a little uneven and difficult to use, but it was completely jammed this time) and could not get it to unjam with my weak elementary school strength. I ended up having to crawl under the stall (much to my disgust, but it was better than staying stuck) and head to the evacuation location. I was lectured by a teacher for not showing up promptly, but when I explained things and showed them the issue with that stall, they forgave me and the lock was soon replaced.

I had forgotten to mention in my last post, but I had called out for help while I was struggling with the lock.  Between the fire alarms and likely due to the reasons you mentioned, I'm assuming no one heard me. Restrooms really aren't designed with safety in mind at all.

 

33 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

The way binary public restrooms are designed, there are either equal stalls per gender, or equal stalls in the women's to stalls/urinals in the men's. This cannot ever work, because female anatomy dictates it taking longer, especially if you're menstruating or pregnant.

That reminds me of this article which shows just how ridiculous those wait times for women's restrooms get.

 

34 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

The only solution I see is genderless single-room water closets, each containing one toilet, one sink, and one changing table, the size of what current accessible stall dimensions are, dispersed in adequate numbers throughout the building at strategic locations.

Something similar, but not quite exactly the same, was recently implemented at a place I frequent. Rather than having one of those types of restrooms at any given location and evenly spreading them out, they're all lined up in one area of the building. However, only one (which was labeled as an accessible restroom) had the changing table. The others had the toilet, sink, soap dispenser, paper towel dispenser, and trash bin just as the accessible one did, but no changing table. Regardless of the way it's done, this set up of individual stalls with all of their own amenities will inevitably be more expensive than a traditional multi-stalled restroom. In the case you mentioned, having all of that additional plumbing to reach an array of locations is something I can see potentially raising the construction costs.

 

35 minutes ago, sithgirlix said:

I've been in buildings where there was only one restroom on each floor, so if you were on the first floor but the girl's bathroom was n the second, guess who's taking a trip? It was so stupid.

I know that laws vary from country to country, but I’m wondering how/if this is even legal in the case you’re mentioning. From my understanding, at least in the US, accessibility laws for people with disabilities state that there has to be at least one restroom (two, one “men's” and one “women's" in the case of gendered restrooms) with wheelchair access on the first/ground floor. That may not be the case in other countries, and it might not even be that way in the US, but I thought it was so.

 

30 minutes ago, Zagadka said:

There is a big problem with usable space for restrooms. They are usually crammed into whatever room is left over, since floor space is limited in most places. Stalls are the best answer anyone has come up with. And they absolutely suck. I think the best we can do is design better stalls, but this is a problem that has been attacked for decades, and there have been few lasting solutions that survive all of the trials. Restrooms are heavily used, frequently physically abused, have a lot of surfaces, contain complex mechanisms (toilet paper rolls, toilets themselves), very unsanitary, the opposite of private... it is easy to meet one of those goals, but all of them is tough. They have to be cheap, durable, replaceable, cleanable, and accessible. Everything down to the screws has to meet these requirements.

 

That is what we're left with: tiles, metal frames, huge gaps, recessed equipment.

I'm really hoping that a solution can be found at some point in the future, but as you've described, it doesn't seem like there's going to be an affordable, universal answer.  Maybe that will be proven wrong one day, however.

[Skycaptain]

Gender free toilets in public places are almost unheard of here, and then generally in places like universities. 

[uhtred]

I can't think of any reason single stall restrooms shouldn't be gender neutral. 

 

In general I've never understood the "safety" question.  If someone is planning to commit assault, surely a sign on the door isn't going to stop them. 

[daveb]

11 hours ago, Anonymous Axolotl said:

Make the door go in the same direction that you're going in to save time. 

Or doors that swing both ways.  

I do prefer it when I can push the door on my exit, rather than having to pull it after washing my hands. I see a lot of people using a paper towel to grab the handle on exiting and then having to dispose of the paper towel somewhere (I do it, too).

[Salmiakki]

I have a very bad social anxiety disorder and agoraphobia. I feel unsafe and scared almost everywhere I go. Adult men are the scariest to me, though I really am scared of everyone. And I absolutely hate public restrooms and I avoid them as much as possible. All are awful, whether they’re gendered or not, multi-stalled or not. I’m always scared that I’m gonna get locked up in there. The bathrooms give me so much anxiety. The longer I have to stay there the worse my anxiety symptoms get and I get this urgent need to get the fuck out of there. Multi-stalled bathrooms are  worse than single-stalled cause they can be very crowded. I can’t relax when a lot of people are around me, and I fear that I’m gonna run out of air or something. I'm scared that I'm gonna get stuck in a sea of people. Also I’m scared that someone is right in front of the stall's door so I can’t get out. It’s really awful. My heart is beating like crazy, my  chest tightens, I'm sweating, I'm shaking, I feel like I can't breathe and like my throat is closing, etc. It’s the same with crowded buses, trains, etc. There’s no quick way out, there’s not enough space, and if someone is blocking me I’m gonna have to tell them to move, except that I can’t cause I’m too scared and anxious. 

 

Also I’m scared that the place where the restroom is is going to be closed when I’m in the restroom and then I’m gonna be stuck in that place until it gets opened again.  

[Grumpy Alien]

I think gender neutral multistall bathrooms make sense. It does not impact my feelings of “safety.” It’s a saver on time and money with the same amount of space. I don’t believe it makes anyone less safe. It might make trans or nonbinary people feel more comfortable. Makes sense to me. 

 

I avoid public toilets unless I really have to go simply because they’re gross and I don’t like to go with people around. However, bodily functions must happen sometimes and will not comfortably wait until I’m home. Shrug. As long as there’s enough toilets and they’re mostly clean, it’ll do.

[iff]

I know of and have used a gender neutral multi stalled toilet. There is one at the lighthouse cinema in Dublin. You go in and there are three stalls, side by side, man, woman and disability. 

 

I was at a music venue last night with toilets upstairs. The toilets didn't have their own room but were stalls  in corridors with walls separating each, 2 with the man picture outside and 2 with the woman picture outside. Don't think the venue would be very disability accessible which is a pity.

[Anonymous Axolotl]

5 hours ago, uhtred said:

In general I've never understood the "safety" question.  If someone is planning to commit assault, surely a sign on the door isn't going to stop them. 

That's a valid point, but I think a lot of it has to do with perceived safety rather than actual safety. Sort of like how the whole idea of something going wrong while flying in a plane is really blown out of proportion, whereas isn't made as big a deal of when it comes to being in a vehicle on the road, despite the latter being far more likely to happen.

 

3 hours ago, daveb said:

Or doors that swing both ways.  

I do prefer it when I can push the door on my exit, rather than having to pull it after washing my hands. I see a lot of people using a paper towel to grab the handle on exiting and then having to dispose of the paper towel somewhere (I do it, too).

Both ways is definitely best. I always try to use a paper towel as well, but unfortunately, where I live, they aren't very common since hand dryers have replaced so many of them. That leaves me with either using a sleeve on the door handle (or if I'm wearing a short sleeved shirt, standing right up against the door handle and awkwardly grabbing part of my shirt at the stomach area to use as a grip) or using just my bare hand.

 

@Salmiakki

Agoraphobia in the context of public restrooms is something I've never thought of. Thank you for sharing that insight. I hope you don't have to use the restroom often when away from home. 

 

2 hours ago, disGraceful said:

I think gender neutral multistall bathrooms make sense. It does not impact my feelings of “safety.” It’s a saver on time and money with the same amount of space. I don’t believe it makes anyone less safe. It might make trans or nonbinary people feel more comfortable.

I've heard that some people feel less safe in gender-neutral bathrooms because of the higher chance of people of the opposite sex peeping in on them or assaulting them. However, I've never heard of that actually happening.

[Rupa]

My university now has in some buildings, not all, converted one female bathroom containing 2-3 cubicles into a gender neutral one. I personally value having the choice to use one that is gendered or not as I’m a somewhat anxious individual and prefer to be in an all-female environment during that monthly week of joy :’) . The rest of the time I’m perfectly happy to use the gender neutral ones and in fact prefer to as there is never a queue 😂

 

I’ve come across them as the only option in various countryside pubs which is interesting (probably saves a lot of space too) and seen no issues there, other than the odd sarky comment from my step-father who is a bit, shall we say old fashioned. He thinks he’s being funny but underneath I do think he’s wholly comfortable using them. 

 

I’ve never really thought about safety, I’ve not been bothered by this, but rarely is there someone else in the gender neutral loos I’ve visited.

On the ‘people having sex’ front I think, like many of us here, I would feel extremely uncomfortable and likely leave, however as also pointed out that could happen in any kind of toilet.

Sanitation is a point I suppose. On the most part gender neitral facilities in my experience have been quite clean

Been a number of times in disabled toilets though when the old gentleman before me didnt clean up after himself... if everyone were considerate and aware of that kind of thing itd be better for everyone but hey xD

[Chihiro]

I am not okay with multi stall gender neutral restrooms. However, I advocate for single unit restrooms- errr like a single room that comes with toilet, washroom etc which can be used by either sex. My primary concern as a woman is safety. I have used such multi stall once and I was surrounded my men in such a tiny hand-wash space, I felt very uncomfortable. If these multistalls are big like... I dunno office spaces or conference rooms where there is enough personal space around you when you walk by, then I think I will be fine. And if there are urinals, then a big NO. 

 

You might argue that guys can enter women's stall and threaten them, but my personal experience speaks otherwise. Dudes who wanted to harass my friends waited outside the bathroom and then stalked/harassed them even though they could have entered women's restroom to do the same. And the bathroom door was open, so they knew there were only us girls in there, nobody else. I dunno why, but the label "women's restroom" seems to deter them from entering.... perhaps society's taboo of entering other gendered bathroom is a strong deterrent. I know both females and males who have been very embarrassed for entering the wrong bathroom even though no harm was done and half the time, there weren't any people in there.

 

I will also add that women's restroom also serves as a place to gossip and cry about males who have upset them without the fear of said males seeing them like that or overhearing them. And based on my experiences, these mean males have been the one to stalk/harass, break hearts, bully them at workplace etc and the reasons why women needed privacy of the bathroom. Only once I had to use the bathroom because a female was upsetting me (but had to stifle my crys unfortunately) and since then I have vowed never to work for a female boss if possible  

[Anonymous Axolotl]

4 hours ago, Rupa said:

My university now has in some buildings, not all, converted one female bathroom containing 2-3 cubicles into a gender neutral one. I personally value having the choice to use one that is gendered or not as I’m a somewhat anxious individual and prefer to be in an all-female environment during that monthly week of joy :’) . The rest of the time I’m perfectly happy to use the gender neutral ones and in fact prefer to as there is never a queue

I'm kind of amazed I didn't think of the "monthly week of joy" as you put it considering I go through as well. I already feel awkward enough in an all-female multi-stalled restroom when I have to change my pad. Being in a gender-neutral one would probably feel more awkward.

 

3 hours ago, Chihiro said:

I am not okay with multi stall gender neutral restrooms. However, I advocate for single unit restrooms- errr like a single room that comes with toilet, washroom etc which can be used by either sex. My primary concern as a woman is safety. I have used such multi stall once and I was surrounded my men in such a tiny hand-wash space, I felt very uncomfortable. If these multistalls are big like... I dunno office spaces or conference rooms where there is enough personal space around you when you walk by, then I think I will be fine. And if there are urinals, then a big NO. 

The multiple single room restrooms is something that has been recently implemented at a place near to where I live. There are about eight to ten of them all lined up in a public area of the building. Each comes with the toilet, sink, mirror, soap dispenser, paper towel dispenser, and trash can. Only one (the accessibility one) has a changing table. As convenient as that is, however, it would be much more expensive than converting an already existing gendered multi-stalled bathroom into a gender-neutral one. Even the maintence and upkeep on the separated room/stalls is greater. Although, there are also quite a few up sides. One "stall" floods or gets clogged? The rest can stay open. (As long as the plumbing leading to the others ins't affected in any way.)

 

With regards to urinals, if the urinals are off in their own "section" of the multi-stalled bathroom, do you think that would be more okay? Such as if they were all in their own stall/room of their own within the restroom so you can't see them unless you go through another door or around another corner/dogleg from the main area of the bathroom.

All of the discussion people have been contributing is making me want to draw some of the restroom ideas I've drafted up in my head.

 

3 hours ago, Chihiro said:

You might argue that guys can enter women's stall and threaten them, but my personal experience speaks otherwise. Dudes who wanted to harass my friends waited outside the bathroom and then stalked/harassed them even though they could have entered women's restroom to do the same. And the bathroom door was open, so they knew there were only us girls in there, nobody else. I dunno why, but the label "women's restroom" seems to deter them from entering.... perhaps society's taboo of entering other gendered bathroom is a strong deterrent. I know both females and males who have been very embarrassed for entering the wrong bathroom even though no harm was done and half the time, there weren't any people in there.

 

I will also add that women's restroom also serves as a place to gossip and cry about males who have upset them without the fear of said males seeing them like that or overhearing them. And based on my experiences, these mean males have been the one to stalk/harass, break hearts, bully them at workplace etc and the reasons why women needed privacy of the bathroom. Only once I had to use the bathroom because a female was upsetting me (but had to stifle my crys unfortunately) and since then I have vowed never to work for a female boss if possible

Those are some really good points you bring up. I think traditional gender roles have become so ingrained in so many people that, as you said, just the label of the opposite sex can deter people from entering the other restroom.

 

Someone else had mentioned the value of the women's restroom being a "safe haven" from men when they need it. It seems like it's more common than I ever realized.

[gymgirl]

Since my surgery over 30 years ago, when my plumbing had to be changed extensively, I have not used a toilet at all, so the matter does not apply to me.

My wife uses the disabled toilets, of course, where available. We have talked about these things, and, as we have trangendered friends, we both think that some sort of gender-neutral public toilets should be commonly available. Almost all objections seem to just come from people who cannot deal with any change. And many are just horribly bigoted. They make up problems that do not really exist or are insignificant.

[ColeHW34]

I don’t pee in public bathrooms unless I really need to. 

[Chihiro]

9 hours ago, Anonymous Axolotl said:

With regards to urinals, if the urinals are off in their own "section" of the multi-stalled bathroom, do you think that would be more okay? Such as if they were all in their own stall/room of their own within the restroom so you can't see them unless you go through another door or around another corner/dogleg from the main area of the bathroom.

Hmm, I am not sure what kind of urinals you are talking about. Mens urinals? Womens?

 

Womens urinals are still in use in parts of asia and I didnt like using them. Its weird to see asses hanging out ugh. And I have used men's toilet when women's had huge line and no men were inside mens multistall.... there was such a strong stench coming from where urinals were located, I dont think men flush urinals at all. Which brings me to another reason why I not okay with men nd women sharing toilets..... MENS TOILETS ARE GROSS (completely forgot about this point) . They stink from a mile away. Scratch what I said about being okay with individual units of unisex bathrooms. I changed my mind. (Oh I am also worried that men might use urinals as an excuse to flash and might pretend like it was an accident.... we all know men love showing their dicks, not all but its kind of become a stereotype because of how often it happens).

 

Whenever I have had to pass mens toilets I have had to hold my breath like 80% of the time. Even with all the blood and other gross things women have to deal with, I have very rarely come across dirty women's toilets (tissues flying everywhere or water on the floor are typical problems but not that big of a deal and I dont pay attention to this kind of problem, probably mens toilet have the same problem too). Sometimes women forget to flush, but thats no big deal either..... most times non-flushing doesnt cause a stink. I just flush and use the toilet. Have very rarely seen blood on seat, which is remarkable. The few times I had to use men's or unisex toilet...... pee was all over the toilet majority of times (I have seen pee on womens only toilet often but most times it was just drops- something that can be cleaned by using the toilet paper so I dont mind). Oh, btw, this isnt country specific problem. I have lived and traveled in many countries- developed and developing and this has been the problem everywhere and have used unisex in both developed and developing countries. Until society teaches men to be clean, this is going to be a persistent problem.

[griffinej5]

I wish we had just gender neutral bathrooms without cracks in the doors so people couldn’t see through. The building where a company I contract with has an office had some gender neutral bathrooms in the area where we had a room for training last year. Nobody seemed to care. The men got to have the annoying experience women always have of having to stand in line. I think gender neutral, non see through bathrooms as the standard in new construction or remodeled spaces should be the norm. I think this would prevent problems for some people, and should really make no difference for the rest of us.