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Galactic Turtle

I think the presence of libido in asexual people is just as prominent as for non-asexual people. It's just that I presume asexual people have no issue with handling it themselves than seeking people out for a perceived better experience. 

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27 minutes ago, questioning_trans_man said:

I appreciate that :) My difficulty with this, though, is that I've heard asexuals say (in the past) that any amount of attraction or libido disqualifies you from claiming the asexual label, even if your attraction would never cause you to have sex with the person. They've said that there's no such thing as an "asexual spectrum", and that asexuality is ultimately black-and-white. Like it should be 100% obvious whether you experience sexual attraction or not.

Simply stated, that's BS man. That's like saying someone has two speeds: stop and go.

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Alejandrogynous

I have a high libido, an active fantasy life, and multiple orgasms a day on average. Never does any of that translate into wanting to engage in sexual activity with another human being, so I'm asexual.

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Anthracite_Impreza

I've found cars so "hot" (I'm mecha) I've literally had to fan myself before, but as I have no desire to engage in sex under any circumstances I'm still ace. Sexualities should be practical; why call yourself sexual if you never want to have sex?

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1 hour ago, questioning_trans_man said:

 

Thank you so much for the candid advice!! I suppose I've had one very narrow ideal of asexuality thrust upon me by certain people, and that's part of the reason I'm struggling to figure things out. Input from folks like yourselves is super helpful, cheers!
I could go the rest of my life without ever having sex, and would be absolutely fine with that. So I guess that's a pretty good indicator of my asexuality! :D 

You're most welcome. I've always been apt to do that sort of thing, I just had to learn to use that skill properly. ;)

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3 hours ago, questioning_trans_man said:

My difficulty with this, though, is that I've heard asexuals say (in the past) that any amount of attraction or libido disqualifies you from claiming the asexual label, even if your attraction would never cause you to have sex with the person. They've said that there's no such thing as an "asexual spectrum", and that asexuality is ultimately black-and-white. Like it should be 100% obvious whether you experience sexual attraction or not.

There’s unfortunately a fair bit of this around. I’m all for different opinions, but I don’t think people should act as (sometimes aggressive) gatekeepers of an arbitrary type of asexuality.

 

Logically, I can see where people are coming from when they state “there is no asexual spectrum”. The challenge is that loads of us already use this term to refer to asexual people’s experiences, which are absolutely on a wide wide spectrum; e.g. sex-repulsion to sex-favourable and everything in between, as one example.

 

I have a relatively high libido and experience aesthetic & sensual attraction very intensely. I definitely find some women “hot”. I don’t experience sexual attraction and don’t desire partnered sex, so I identify as asexual.

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everywhere and nowhere
5 hours ago, Galactic Turtle said:

I think the presence of libido in asexual people is just as prominent as for non-asexual people. It's just that I presume asexual people have no issue with handling it themselves than seeking people out for a perceived better experience. 

I doubt it, on the basis that - as some have pointed out in several topics - nonlibidoist people are asexual by default. However, it's clear that libidoist asexual people exist and probably even are a majority among asexuals.

Autoeroticism (sorry, I hate the M word) is also fairly common among asexuals. Here on the forum it's clear that asexuals can pleasure themselves, asexuals just don't desire partnered sex, but can have different feelings about solitary sexual activities.

 

I wouldn't say that I have a high libido, but I definitely have one. I pleasure myself once every few days, I have fantasies - only in third person too. I consider myself sex-averse, not sex-repulsed, because my negative feelings about sex don't extend to other people's sex - however, I'd absolutely object to any thinking that "sex-averse" just means "moderately uncomfortable about sex" - no, I feel as unable to have sex as those who identify as sex-repulsed, but I don't have any such negative feelings about sex not involving myself.

Fortunately, "sex involving myself" has never happened.

My aversion is not traumatic, but it's very strong nevertheless. The idea of personally having sex feels very frightening and distressing to me, I feel as if I was suffocating if I try to imagine it. I have suspected - and my recent very strong negative reaction to a straight sex scene in a book confirmed it - that I prefer fantasies about gay sex because they are the furthest from what I could theoretically experience: I could never have gay sex for the simple reason that I'm not a man. (On a side note, in Polish "gej" only means "homosexual man". But still, even if in English "gay" as an adjective can also refer to women, "gay sex" is almost always understood as sex between men.) I hate dominance/submission stuff (on a level higher than my libido - the level of political views - I support same-sex love also for being more equal and I believe that dominance contradicts equality. No, sorry, let others have the kind of sex they prefer, but I remain BDSM-repulsed).

Anyway, just be assured that having erotic fantasies and pleasuring oneself is fully compatible with being asexuals. Many asexuals do it, so don't worry.

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4 hours ago, questioning_trans_man said:

I appreciate that :) My difficulty with this, though, is that I've heard asexuals say (in the past) that any amount of attraction or libido disqualifies you from claiming the asexual label, even if your attraction would never cause you to have sex with the person. They've said that there's no such thing as an "asexual spectrum", and that asexuality is ultimately black-and-white. Like it should be 100% obvious whether you experience sexual attraction or not.

I do look at some people and think "wow, they're hot", I just won't have ever want to have sex with them. The most I'll do is compliment them and marvel at their prettiness. Whether this is how allosexuals feel about people, and whether this is their experience of sexual attraction, I have no idea, because I can't enter anybody else's mind.

 

I've been told by certain asexuals that this disqualifies me from being asexual, because they define that as sexual attraction. I'm going to assume that mindset isn't reflective of the whole ace community, but... It's caused me to have doubts, that's all. I'm probably overthinking things. Which is why I'm trying to reach out and find some clarity.

Erm. Ok, non-ace chiming in. 

 

I dont consider asexuality a spectrum, personally. Asexuality is no sexual attraction. Sexuality itself is a spectrum though, so there is black (ace) to white (sexual) with grey area in between the two. 

 

However, considering someone hot isnt sexual attraction. That is attraction. But, sexual attraction requires a sexual component. Meaning... if you love someone and desire to express that love through sexual means, see someone hot and think sexually about them, get horny and find someone to share that feeling with, etc. Being drawn to someone else in a sexual manner. 

 

Yes, finding people hot without wanting sex with them is something aces and non-aces alike can experience. But, a non-ace is never going to be fully satisfied going their whole lives just masturbating and never involving another person in their sexuality. I get turned on and dont think oh I should go take care of it, I actively want my partner to the point I will wait until they are in the mood too, because I want partnered activity, not solo. 

 

And I dont even experience finding randos hot, tbh. I dont get aesthetic attraction. My sexual attraction is 100% emotionally fueled by loving my partner. 

 

So anyone that tells you thinking people are nice to look at is sexual attraction is someone that doesnt have a clue what sexual attraction is. It isnt looking at a random person and going oh hot. Its being drawn to share sexuality with someone - for any reason, the reason are so varied - but it draws you to partnered activities. 

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letusdeleteouraccounts

Asexuals don’t experience sexual attraction. Sexual attraction is a desire towards people to have sex with them; libido is a need for sexual release. Libido =/= sexual attraction. Asexuals can have any frequency of libido as long as the desire for sexual relief is desired through masturbation and not sex

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Galactic Turtle
9 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

I doubt it, on the basis that - as some have pointed out in several topics - nonlibidoist people are asexual by default. However, it's clear that libidoist asexual people exist and probably even are a majority among asexuals.

Autoeroticism (sorry, I hate the M word) is also fairly common among asexuals. Here on the forum it's clear that asexuals can pleasure themselves, asexuals just don't desire partnered sex, but can have different feelings about solitary sexual activities.

Yeah. I don't have a libido but like I said, I'm pretty sure most asexual people do. The only difference is that asexual people with a libido probably don't feel the need to handle it with company just like the average person doesn't seek assistance going to the bathroom.

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Non-existent for me, but I’m sure that plenty of people have different experiences than I do.

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Winged Whisperer
18 hours ago, Jon A. said:

Simply stated, that's BS man. That's like saying someone has two speeds: stop and go.

Well ehh... at the end of the day you either do feel that wanting of sex or you don't. There's no real in-between here.

 

5 hours ago, questioning_trans_man said:

The difficulty has been that I thought what I was experiencing was sexual attraction, so I felt a lot of shame (almost as if I was an imposter) while trying to call myself asexual

Why would you do that? It's not like the asexual inquisition is going to be knocking on your door to demand you stop calling yourself that. You either feel it, or you don't, that's it really. What matters are your internal feelings.

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everywhere and nowhere
55 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

Well ehh... at the end of the day you either do feel that wanting of sex or you don't. There's no real in-between here.

For me it's clearly "stop": I couldn't have sex simply because it is as it is, because its qualities are in a very strong conflict with what I could find psychologically comfortable. But there are people for whom it's not so clear. Some people have doubts. Some people may think "I could desire sex if sex wasn't .........". Or they may confuse curiousity with desire. Yes, on this forum it's generally agreed that just wanting to try sex to know what the fuss is all about "doesn't count" as sexual attraction. But people have their doubts, it's not so clear for everyone.

6 hours ago, questioning_trans_man said:

Thank you for that! :) I suppose I've been wondering about my identity in the vacuum of my own headspace, so figuring out that what I experience is aesthetic attraction (as opposed to what's defined as "sexual attraction") has been difficult.

You know... actually I experience something I personally define as sexual attraction. I just don't agree with those who say that if an attraction doesn't lead to desiring sex with the object of attraction, it isn't sexual attraction. For me attraction without desire is possible: it's more than admiring someone'e appearance, finding a person "hot" - it includes arousal, but still no break in my sex aversion. Which is why a more accurate description of my orientation would be "effectively asexual due to (non-traumatic and fully accepted) sex aversion" (by "fully accepted" I mean: I wouldn't want not to be sex-averse, I don't want circumstances in which I could desire sex and have sex to ever materialise). But still I fully satisfy the most popular alternative definition of asexuality: "An asexual person is someone who doesn't desire partnered sex". A lot of users find this one better - less confusing and simpler, first of all.

For trans people distinguishing between sexual attraction, esthetic attraction, romantic attraction and "gender envy" can be yet more difficult. Particularly for those in more conservative countries, where doctors who give them a diagnosis needed for legal sex reassignment may still expect trans people to be heterosexual. Which equals "seemingly homosexual with regard to their gender assigned at birth" and so seems to grow out of outdated, discredited, homo- and transphobic ideas that trandgenderism is supposedly an extreme form of homosexuality (or homosexuality - a milder form of transgenderism, that's what doctors thought in late 19th / early 20th century. Hence the belief that a gay man should be "effeminate", a lesbian should be a butch and so on. Which could even be liberating to some extent in those circumstances - cutting one's hair and wearing more masculine clothes could, at that time, be a sign to family: "stop nagging me, I'm a real sexual invert and I can't be fixed"). Actually, even in those countries it may be more of a self-perpetuating myth than reality - but still, at least here in Poland a lot of trans people fear that if they admit being non-heterosexual, they might get rejected by the doctor. It's considered to be more lenient for women and stricter for men, but still - "ironically", all trans men I personally know are homo- or bisexual and I also know at least one who got through the diagnostic process without lying to the doctor and hiding the fact that he prefers men.

Because of this prejudice against non-heterosexuality in trans people ("ironically", despite this it also seems clear that the number of non-heterosexuals is higher among trans than among cis people), they may themselves at first fail to notice and acknowledge their attraction. I have seen trans men writing about how what they considered "gender envy" - admiring a man because of wanting to be like him - turned out to be sexual attraction. There's no reason why it couldn't work the other way around: a trans person may have doubts whether they experience sexual attraction (particularly if they already know that they have a romantic attraction to that gender), when in fact they are admiring what they want to have themselves.

Asexual trans people may also have it harder because indeed, some trans people feel asexual at first because their gender dysphoria is stronger than desire (and it certainly rings a bell for me - it seems that I'm not strictly speaking asexual, but my sex aversion is stronger than any potential desire). There is a widespread belief that because of this, in all asexual trans people it will change once they transition. And yet sometimes it never happens. There's no point in wondering "whether a person would have been asexual anyway if they weren't trans" because if they weren't trans, they would have been a completely different person - but still it's a fact that some trans people are asexual (and just like there is a statistical overrepresentation of non-heterosexuals among trans people, there is an overrepresentation of trans people among asexuals) and it doesn't make them "broken" or somehow "not fully transitioned" compared to allosexual trans people.

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We could gather enough paper to rewrite War and Peace and still not have enough room to write down all of the opinions/arguments surrounding sexuality, or lack thereof.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a high libido I identify as asexual as I don’t have a desire to engage in partnered sex, Iam divorced I have had piv sex with 2 partners but never really enjoyed it, I get more pleasure from masturbation than I ever did from partnered sex.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just came across this thread while looking for some definition on libidoist.  I'd just been using sex-favorable asexual before.

I'm sure I'm wandering into a $h1tstorm here, but I don't understand why libido satisfaction via masturbation vs. libido satisfaction via partnered sex somehow negates asexuality.

In my case, I'm not attracted to anyone.  No "chemistry", no looking at someone and thinking or feeling that I want to have sex with them.  No sexual crushes or thinking someone is "hot".   I do find people aesthetically pleasing, but not in a sexy sort of way, if that makes sense.  Humans, in their all their variety and the way they express their personalities visually, are interesting.

However, I do like sex.  In the same way that I enjoy any other activity that brings physical enjoyment.  I can take it or leave it, certainly don't need it.  But it can be physically enjoyable just like masturbation can be.  I guess maybe I'm "masturbating" with another person?     Trying to figure out whether or not sex is something that I would actually engage in with someone else is problematic in that there isn't any attraction to anyone.   Most of the time it's been when someone just suggests it, and I say OK, sure.  Usually it's enjoyable, sometimes it's boring.  I'm not going to seek it out or initiate it, but if it seems like something that might feel good then, I'm game.  

- Hey, you want to get ice cream?  

... Sure, ice cream sounds good right now....

> Huh.  Well, strawberry ice cream was OK, but pistachio probably would have been better.  Meh.
> That ice cream hit the spot.  Maybe we can get some again sometime (probably not, but you never know).
... Nah, I'll just get some at home later.  (more likely)
... nah, I'm not really feeling like ice cream at all this month. (most likely)

And going out and intentionally SEEKING ice cream?  Trying to find an appealing flavor?  Yeah, right.

So.  By a lot of definitions I'm seeing here, I'm not asexual?   But I'm not attracted to anyone.  

What is the definition of a libidoist?  In the context of attraction?   I'm so confused.

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I'm sure I'm wandering into a $h1tstorm here, but I don't understand why libido satisfaction via masturbation vs. libido satisfaction via partnered sex somehow negates asexuality.

In my case, I'm not attracted to anyone.  No "chemistry", no looking at someone and thinking or feeling that I want to have sex with them.  No sexual crushes or thinking someone is "hot".   I do find people aesthetically pleasing, but not in a sexy sort of way, if that makes sense.  Humans, in their all their variety and the way they express their personalities visually, are interesting.

However, I do like sex.  In the same way that I enjoy any other activity that brings physical enjoyment.  I can take it or leave it, certainly don't need it.  But it can be physically enjoyable just like masturbation can be.  I guess maybe I'm "masturbating" with another person?     Trying to figure out whether or not sex is something that I would actually engage in with someone else is problematic in that there isn't any attraction to anyone.   Most of the time it's been when someone just suggests it, and I say OK, sure.  Usually it's enjoyable, sometimes it's boring.  I'm not going to seek it out or initiate it, but if it seems like something that might feel good then, I'm game.  

Generally speaking, if you're pursuing sex with someone for your own sexual gratifications, whatever the reasoning or motivations behind it, that's pretty much being sexually attracted to them.  Whatever other sort of meanings you're trying to put behind the definition of "attraction" is just nitpicking after a certain point.

 

And even if you don't agree with defining sexual attraction in this way, your own experiences (which are not an uncommon experience among sexuals, mind you) pretty much make it obvious why basing sexuality solely on one's capacity to feel *attraction* is patently insufficient.  What defines sexual people is that they desire/pursue sex, and you presumably fall in that same boat.  It will make no sense to anyone in society to try to pass this off as asexuality.

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15 hours ago, ClearWater said:

I'm sure I'm wandering into a $h1tstorm here, but I don't understand why libido satisfaction via masturbation vs. libido satisfaction via partnered sex somehow negates asexuality.

It doesn’t. Asexuality is defined by lack of attraction, not behaviour. I also personally fully support anyone who prefers the “doesn’t desire partnered sex” definition and applies it to themselves; but not if they try to force it onto others.

 

This thread from 2010 explains attraction vs. behaviour well:

 

 

15 hours ago, ClearWater said:

In my case, I'm not attracted to anyone.  No "chemistry", no looking at someone and thinking or feeling that I want to have sex with them.  No sexual crushes or thinking someone is "hot".   I do find people aesthetically pleasing, but not in a sexy sort of way, if that makes sense.  Humans, in their all their variety and the way they express their personalities visually, are interesting.

More or less the same here (I can appreciate “hotness”).

 

15 hours ago, ClearWater said:

However, I do like sex.  In the same way that I enjoy any other activity that brings physical enjoyment.  I can take it or leave it, certainly don't need it.  But it can be physically enjoyable just like masturbation can be.  I guess maybe I'm "masturbating" with another person?     Trying to figure out whether or not sex is something that I would actually engage in with someone else is problematic in that there isn't any attraction to anyone.   Most of the time it's been when someone just suggests it, and I say OK, sure.  Usually it's enjoyable, sometimes it's boring.  I'm not going to seek it out or initiate it, but if it seems like something that might feel good then, I'm game.  

And same here as well.

 

I don’t experience sexual attraction and don’t desire partnered sex. I am happy to have sex occasionally, it’s a good way to get rid of libido and I enjoy the physical feeling of parts of it. I identify as asexual.

 

There are many of us on the more sensual/favourable side on AVEN, but it would appear our voices are getting somewhat drowned out recently.

 

Happy to chat on PM if this thread gets unpleasant 😊

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Janus the Fox

Asking questions should be answered only, Q&A forum isn’t a place to debate sexuality to me anyway.

 

I have had a historically low libido, even when it was higher during puberty and under manic episodes during mood changes.  Once weekly to twice monthly is about it now, slowly dropping off with advancing age.

 

At no point there is any sexual attraction, even after 36 months with a homosexual partner.  We both share similar fetishes which does not include sex.  I compromise on once or twice weekly sex, libido does not function at every sexual encounter, being the submissive there’s a hard limit on anal intercourse, for majority of people in any case, especially having health issues with that area in mind.

 

I find I can go without physical contact indefinitely, romantic contact included, it’s also difficult to place a relationship as a friendship either, while it’s quite the opposite for the significant other.  

 

There’s been also a history of health issues surrounding being morbid obesity and generalised fatty liver disease relating to the weight and alcohol.  Hormones are normal if the balance favours lower testosterone and slightly high oestrogen, I’ve also had an intersex condition corrected.  In between I’ve also got confirmed with Tourette’s-Aspergers and associated co-morbids amongst included major depression-bipolar, OCD migraines etc.

 

Even when all those have been treated with significant changes with diet and daily exercise, libido stays low and no attraction.  Discovered being trans-non binary as well.

 

 

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