What was it like growing up trans?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Skullery Maid said:

@questioning_trans_man_ So... any suggestions on how to approach my brother? He's a liberal guy who is only having an issue because, you know, his kid is having problems... If it was anyone else he'd be chill af. He was great for me coming out as gay when we were teenagers. But he and I do not talk to each other well. I have a backlog of Very Important Topics. But anyway, if you have suggestions... 

I would explain to him that exploration of gender identity and presentation at a young age is very normal and healthy, and not always an indicator of transgenderism. Suppressing a child's natural inclinations towards one kind of gender expression can be seriously harmful and leave them with feelings of shame that will impact their entire life. Just because his "son" likes to dress up doesn't necessarily mean that he, in actuality, has a daughter. But, the truth is that– if his child is trans– there will be nothing he can do to prevent that reality. Conversion therapy and negative reinforcement has never, ever succeeded in abolishing gender non-conformity or transgender identities in children.

 

In my country, every second trans person attempts suicide during adolescence, due to parental transphobia and peer rejection. For the sake of his child's mental wellness, he needs to understand that his child is not actually having any problems, and mental health issues will only arise if the child is made to feel ashamed. An AMAB child being feminine is not a problem, just like an AFAB child being masculine is not a problem. However his child ends up identifying, he will not be able to stop it. All he can do is help his child, allow them to wear whatever they want, protect them from judgement, and grow with them.

 

My mother was supportive of gay people, too, when I was growing up. She would have supported me if I had come out as a cisgender lesbian. She was even supportive of trans people too, to an extent– as long as they were other people. When I came out, I defied the narrow gender role she'd expected me to fit into, and in so doing I ruined the "path" she had envisioned for me. It sounds like your brother is struggling with his child not being the son he imagined he would have, much in the same way that my mother hated me for not being the daughter she wanted. (Though I would assume your brother's feelings are less intense than my mother's; she was particularly nasty about my transition.) There are lots of online resources to assist parents who are raising a gender non-conforming child. He needs to reach out and educate himself so that he doesn't end up like my mother.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

11 hours ago, Skullery Maid said:

I've not seen TRANS but I've seen Ma Vie En Rose like a million times... was one of my ex's favorite movies. We each had a few VHS tapes that we refused to throw out and lugged from apartment to apartment, and that was one of hers. 

Ma Vie En Rose came out in '98 and really helped some of the cis people I knew on the internet understand me somewhat better. I must have thought about that movie a million times, and I can look over on my media shelves, and there it is. Funny, but because of the title, I didn't have to hid it, both because of the language barrier and because if the person who saw the VHS tape had watched it, you could pretty much tell they were sympathetic. I really cried the first time I watched it, thinking it would have made a lot of difference had the times been the least bit more enlightened. A human had already been on the moon, but the society that accoplished that was still in the dark ages as far and LGBTQ, and was still insisting that homosexuals were suffering from a pathology and needed to be cured.

 

But even at the time the movie was set, the one thing that didn't change was that there were *phobes who exerted pressure on people who showed the least bit of tolerance. I think the tide is starting to turn, but here in the US, we just saw it again this week- how the people that see any kind of variance in gender and gender roles and sexuality will fight to have their worldview be the ONLY one permitted.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/25/politics/pride-lgbtq-gop-west-virginia-trnd/index.html

 

 

[Acing It]

On 6/23/2019 at 7:55 PM, Skullery Maid said:

@Anthracite_Impreza_ so the internalized transphobia is one of the things I'm worried about. This is my nephew, my brother's kid. I'm 100% sure my brother is the one shaming him. I've heard from my stepmom that my brother is very uncomfortable with all of it. My nephew likes to do his makeup with grandma, but my brother won't allow it.

 

I told my nephew to leave his nails painted! He said he took it off because he was afraid grandma (my mom) would be mad at him because he's not a girl. I said she wouldn't be. He said his other grandma tells him to wear it over there... He said "grandma and Ken say to keep it on and I'm like REALLY!?" and he was sooo excited about that. 

 

So I need to talk to my brother about what he's saying to his kid, but I don't know what to say right now. I talked to my nephew and told him that he has to be happy, and that anyone who cares about him will think he's cool as hell and that I think he's cool. I just don't know what to do exactly. 

I have no direct experience but from what I have observed over the years, it's always the dads who struggle most when their 'son' turns out to be a trans girl. I've always wondered whether it had something to do with them feeling they had failed as a man because of it or whether it had something to do with perceived lack of virility or them being worried their 'mates' would shame them if they allowed this or were ok with it. Others may see their dreams of playing football with their son and going fishing (I know I'm stereotyping, but this is what some of them say) with 'him' shattered... It's such a shame and I wonder if it's part of some sort of toxic masculinity and that a 'boy' presenting as a girl makes 'him' look weak (implying that femininity/the female is negative and shameful). Just my idea.

[Acing It]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:05 PM, Skullery Maid said:

I want to make sure I'm not projecting!

I think this is the nub of the problem, generally, not just in your case. My temptation would be to take a neutral stance (impossible in most cases because others around the child don't) and let the child get on with it. There are children who are not trans but present as 'trans' as small children and grow out of it. There are others who are trans. And it's nigh  on impossible to tell because a child at that age doesn't have an understanding or vocabulary that's sophisticated or mature enough to tell either way (even adults struggle to tell!). A [father] not accepting effiminate skews the opportunity for the child to 'get on with it' and let time work it out (hopefully before puberty arrives if possible' and troubles the waters for the child and everyone else, as would others around the child with a strong opinion either way. How do you intervene or do you intervene... that's a very, very difficult and sensitive question...

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Acing It said:

A [father] not accepting effiminate skews the opportunity for the child to 'get on with it' and let time work it out (hopefully before puberty arrives if possible' and troubles the waters for the child and everyone else, as would others around the child with a strong opinion either way. How do you intervene or do you intervene... that's a very, very difficult and sensitive question...

Omg thank you thank you thank you. 

 

I've actually settled with... My brother is a good guy, even if he just wants his kid to fit in, they know how to contact me, my sister in law is aware to keep her eyes open... for a kid who just turned 7 a couple weeks ago, that may be enough. I'm not sure there's much to do. I told my brother to keep in mind that what's normal for him isn't normal for me, and vice versa, and maybe that's all I need to say for now. I don't know, I really don't. 

[Acing It]

2 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

Omg thank you thank you thank you. 

 

I've actually settled with... My brother is a good guy, even if he just wants his kid to fit in, they know how to contact me, my sister in law is aware to keep her eyes open... for a kid who just turned 7 a couple weeks ago, that may be enough. I'm not sure there's much to do. I told my brother to keep in mind that what's normal for him isn't normal for me, and vice versa, and maybe that's all I need to say for now. I don't know, I really don't. 

[I should read my messages before posting - there are some horrible grammatical errors and omissions in there! :-)] I'm also thinking about how new this all is to your brother and whether he needs time to let this settle in his mind.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Acing It said:

[I should read my messages before posting - there are some horrible grammatical errors and omissions in there! :-)] I'm also thinking about how new this all is to your brother and whether he needs time to let this settle in his mind.

Yeah right, and feel things out, talk to people. He and his wife are both teachers, both have master's degrees and a shit load of child development knowledge in their corner. You're right, it's ongoing, it's a process for everyone. 

 

Tbh we've got a lot of family shit going on. My brother is talking to our father as I type this to tell him the kids aren't allowed to sleep over at grandpa's house anymore. Maybe a good time to just let it all rest a bit. 

[Fluffy Femme Guy]

Didn't find out any thing substantial about anything trans till I was 28 or 29, my bestie came out to me as a girl while I was over at her house celebrating my birthday.

I started doing research and it all started to click.

But there were signs when I was very young, a lot of things I did were isolated incidents, but there were persistent feelings, ideas, and behavior patterns, but my young mind could only perceive it as a quirky 'personality type' instead of what I'd now call a 'gender identity'.

4 year old cis-boys usually don't like it when people mistake them for a girl.

 

There were two thing s that stand out in my kindergarten memories:
Going as a witch for the Halloween party, and an incident were my whole class went to recess, and the vacant classroom was going to be borrowed by the girl scouts while we were outside.

So the girlscouts start walking in before the class goes outside, and I think one or two students in my class were part of the girlscouts, so they stayed.
They were borrowing the room to bake some cookies and treats.
The kids in my class start going outside (there was a door in this room that leads directly outside) and I stayed in my seat. The girlscouts start sitting at the tables.

Like I stated earlier, when I was very young I sometimes got mistaken for being AFAB instead of AMAB, so perhaps the adult(s) in charge of the girl scouts thought I was really supposed to be there or were just gonna let it go.

 

I was staying cause I was curious about what the girlscouts were up to. I'm pretty sure someone said something to me like "you need to be a girl to be part of this" or something to that effect.
I'm fairly certain I replied with "I can be a girl.", then I remember my teacher grabbed my arm an sorta dragged me outside and then closed the door.
I remember being a little upset and also really confused. Mainly confused. I didn't get what the big deal was or what I did wrong.

 

As grammar school went on it became very apparent I was NOT like the other boys, I was this gentle, friendly, emotional, open, sweet person.
I did not mesh at all with the boys. I was bullied and teased. I remember several instances of looking over at the female friend circles and wanting what they had, it seemed to me at the time that being a guy was just about being an aggressive, competitive jerk. Unfortunately I never got in with the girls because of being picked on for 'acting like a girl', and 'being so emotional', the whole nonesense that boys and girls should stay separate.

I thought of myself as a male at the time and desperately wanted the approval of the other boys so I generally stayed away from the girls.

 

I remember times my mother and I would go to the mall and of course I'd hit up the toy stores,and then my mother would want to browse clothing.
It was a bit boring to stand in one place while she looked at stuff, but I remember thinking it all looked so cool compared to the guy stuff. I remember looking at jewelry in some of those places and secretly wanting to buy and wear some.

I never did because I knew I would get teased for it and probably someone would take from me so they could throw it away or break it.

And I didn't want to buy it just to wear at home because I wanted people to see it and tell me how cool/nice, etc. it was.

I did end up buying a simple necklace but barely wore it for the same reasons.

I did the whole 'repression' thing but thankfully was never able to cover it up with exaggerated/toxic masculinity.

Eventually I even forgot most or all the stuff I was repressing but it had irreversibly alienated me from pretty much everyone I went to school with.