If the consensus is that grey-sexuality is the same as sexuality

[bare_trees]

...then should those of us greys create our own community apart from AVEN?

 

Or does this community already exist? If so, can someone direct me there? I don't see myself as an ally; I see myself as part of the community. But if that's considered wrong, I'd rather someone official, such as a moderator, just said so.

 

Am I a gatekeeper myself? Sure. I don't think it's ok to have sexual relationships with minors and/or relatives. I think that relationships with machines, fictional characters, and others are fine but I don't think marriage between people and non-consenting entities should be legal. (This has come up, to be clear).

 

But I thought I understood that grey sexuality was a real thing, and that the label serves a purpose. 

[letusdeleteouraccounts]

I think you misunderstood what someone said. Greysexuality is a form of sexuality yet close enough to asexuality to be a part of the asexual community. But I also made a post just now about how I think a lot of asexuals mistake themselves as greysexuals

 

15 minutes ago, Star Lion said:

I think some asexuals mistake themselves as greysexuals if we’re looking at the practicality of labels. While not believing in a spectrum, I advocate for loose interpretation of the definition of asexuality. To be greysexual is to acknowledge that you do in fact experience sexual attraction even if only on rare occasion. If your experience of sexual attraction was a whole decade ago or you haven’t experienced sexual attraction in so long that you don’t expect to experience it ever again, I believe that fits the definition of asexuality rather than greysexuality. No, greysexuals are not asexual which means that we aren’t a spectrum, but they do still have an experience that relates some to ours which is why they’re in our community

My apologies if myself or anyone else has ever made you feel unwelcomed 🍰

[Snao Cone]

My stance is that grey sexuality is a useful label for people who are minimally sexual to the point that they feel much more connected to the feelings and experiences of the asexual community than the broader sexual population. I think confusion or disagreements sometimes come from people who identify as grey thinking that most sexual people are much more sexual than is actually the case, so it's important to make sure there's good communication and education on how common their experiences may be. That's not to push them out; it's to make them feel less alienated from society as a whole and to help them form realistic expectations of what their relationships might be like. 

 

If a person's experiences with sex and relationships closely align with those of asexual people, and if this is consistent over multiple stages of life (ie not just during adolescence when there's wide variation in the maturity process), then imo there's no reason they should feel excluded, at least not on the basis of their orientation. I know some demi folks have started communities and designed their own flags because they feel distinct enough from asexual people that it interferes with their sense of identity or community. But some demi people are also happy within the ace community, and find it relatable enough. 

[Philip027]

I have no issue with grey spectrum people feeling like they can more closely identify with asexuals rather than sexuals.  Totally understand that.

 

I just want it to be acknowledged that it's still not actually the same thing as asexuality, despite possibly often appearing like it.  Asexuality is so little understood and recognized in society that it really cannot afford to be represented inaccurately.

[Homer]

Asexuality as a concept and AVEN as a community are separate things. While no, greysexuals, demis etc aren't asexual per definition, everyone is welcome to hang out on AVEN regardless. No matter what's (not) going on in their bedroom

[letusdeleteouraccounts]

Just now, Philip027 said:

Asexuality is so little understood and recognized in society that it really cannot afford to be represented inaccurately.

This .

[Snao Cone]

One reason it's important to welcome grey-identifying folks is they may really be asexual but feel uncomfortable identifying as such because of other factors. I identified as grey at first because my mix of aesthetic appreciation and sex-positive views made me feel like I wasn't quite asexual enough. I've since decided, based on many discussions on AVEN and in private, that I'm better off identifying as asexual to assert that it's about internal experiences of lacking the attraction/desire to pursue sex, not about my past actions or ability to see beauty or views on sex in society as a whole. Without a community that acknowledges and accepts a grey area, I may never have understood this part of myself. 

[bare_trees]

33 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

I have no issue with grey spectrum people feeling like they can more closely identify with asexuals rather than sexuals.  Totally understand that.

 

I just want it to be acknowledged that it's still not actually the same thing as asexuality, despite possibly often appearing like it.  Asexuality is so little understood and recognized in society that it really cannot afford to be represented inaccurately.

That makes complete sense to me. And I don't identify as ACE because I recognize that's not right for me and I'm not out to take away from the actual definition. But I don't identify as sexual, either. I think the grey designation is important for me, until something more fitting and less nebulous comes along. 

 

I guess I either have to come to terms with the fact that a fair number of posters on here don't think gray/grey sexuality is real and stop responding to their posts or leave if I can't help but argue with them. Hopefully the former. I guess it's an agree to disagree and move on sort of thing.

[Kimmie.]

This is a hard question.

I will personally keep identify as asexual atleast until I have started transition (if I ever will) . Because I think my body and sexuality don't line up. So who knows what will happend after that. 

 

But I think that grays do fit in the community if they want to. And if there is something this community needs it is more insight in what sexuality is.

[Iam9man]

3 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

One reason it's important to welcome grey-identifying folks is they may really be asexual but feel uncomfortable identifying as such because of other factors. I identified as grey at first because my mix of aesthetic appreciation and sex-positive views made me feel like I wasn't quite asexual enough. I've since decided, based on many discussions on AVEN and in private, that I'm better off identifying as asexual to assert that it's about internal experiences of lacking the attraction/desire to pursue sex, not about my past actions or ability to see beauty or views on sex in society as a whole. Without a community that acknowledges and accepts a grey area, I may never have understood this part of myself. 

A million times this! 👍

 

Not for the first time, I note we’ve had very similar experiences 😊

[Puck]

Community and label are different things.

 

It might be easier to think of it as if asexuals were gay people and grey were bi. Bisexuals and gay folks have a ton in common and are going to find good community together, but at the end of the day, bisexuals just aren't gay people and won't face ALL the same stigmas or issues. However, both should feel at home in the LGBTQ+ community (if they choose to participate in it) the same way aces and greys should both feel at home in the asexual community.

 

Also, similar to bisexuals, there are actually many more grey-sexuals than asexuals, but (like gay people) asexuals get more attention because they are seen as more "extreme" and/or have the qualities that people reject all the time. (By that I mean, if a grey-sexual finds a sexual partner that they have regular sex with, the most people are going to see them as sexual enough to be accepted in greater society and not bug them. But an asexual never will so they will always be seen as "other" by certain people who might, in some circumstances, accept greys.*)

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

*To be clear, it's NEVER a competition of who "has it worse," it's just that the realities of different orientations do need to be acknowledged, understood, and appreciated so proper support and resources can be given to different folks.

 

[Omelette]

I guess one thing I'd like to point at is that we, as humans, like labels. We often see things as one way, or another, and fail to notice the things inbetween.

 

I've heard it called before 'the tyranny of the discontinuous mind' (here's an article that explores it - the author's a dick, but I think his science is solid). https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yFh-mNvkTHUJ:https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/12/issue-essay-line-dawkins+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

To draw a parallel, a previous post mentioned homo- and bi-sexuality. Some people may identify as gay, others as straight, others as bi. However, that doesn't capture the whole spectrum of the issue. For example, how would you call a man who is 99% of the time attracted to men, but rarely attracted to women - gay or bi? What if the percentages were more like 90% and 10%? What if it was 50-50, but he never acted on his attraction to women?

 

I guess the correct answer is: as long as it vaguely makes sense, you call people what they want to be called.

 

I guess it's the same with a-/grey-sexuality. If someone felt sexual attraction just once in their life, decades ago, can you really nitpick that they're greysexual rather than asexual, even though for most of their life they've dealt with typical asexual challenges? I guess they could identify as greysexual if they wanted, or as asexual. I thought greysexuality was supposed to be a way to accept that gap between asexuality and sexuality, to admit that things are complicated. That people don't always fall into neat categories.

 

I feel greysexual people might deal with similar challenges as ace people, or sexual people, and maybe even challenges unique to greysexuality. And I believes that sharing these perspectives is more valuable than deciding where to draw boundaries between labels with sub-molecular precision : )

[Philip027]

Quote

I guess the correct answer is: as long as it vaguely makes sense, you call people what they want to be called.

That's the thing though; a lot of times it just doesn't make sense.

 

I've lost count of the number of cases of "I'm ace or think I am ace but I want to do clearly sexual things with X person(s) but it still counts because I'm not ATTRACTED to anyone!! right??" I've seen in just the past week.

 

Quote

I feel greysexual people might deal with similar challenges as ace people, or sexual people, and maybe even challenges unique to greysexuality. And I believes that sharing these perspectives is more valuable than deciding where to draw boundaries between labels with sub-molecular precision : )

Why can't we have both?  Why do these need to be mutually exclusive things?

[Sally]

8 hours ago, CBC said:

Or their kitchen, or in the shower, or on the beach, or in the back row at the cinema during a late-night film screening, or in the confessional at their local church or...

 

Sorry, got carried away thinking of options.  

You forgot to mention in the middle of the street on 5th Avenue in New York City, although they should take care to not be run over, which would probably spoil the mood.  

[Omelette]

8 hours ago, Philip027 said:

That's the thing though; a lot of times it just doesn't make sense.

 

I've lost count of the number of cases of "I'm ace or think I am ace but I want to do clearly sexual things with X person(s) but it still counts because I'm not ATTRACTED to anyone!! right??" I've seen in just the past week.

True, although there's always a spectrum. (Not saying that you're wrong, because you're not. Just providing an additional perspective). A lot of aces might have experimented with sexual activity at some point, just to see what's the fuss about it. If you add being esthetically / sensually attracted to the other person involved, things can get really confusing...

 

I mean, I think you're right. In that some degree of boundary-setting is needed in order to strike a balance between 'inclusion' and the meaning that the words 'a-/grey-sexuality' get across. I'm not saying we should stop telling people 'Actually, I'm not sure if your description matches asexuality...' in extreme cases, just that we should be aware of the tendency of the human mind to over-label things, and ask ourselves in the moment 'is this distinction really meaningful?'

8 hours ago, Philip027 said:

 

Why can't we have both?  Why do these need to be mutually exclusive things?

I believe that that shouldn't be a hard boundary. The thing about hard boundaries is that people who fall along the border of one label to another, on opposite sides, are probably more similar to each other than to people sharing their label. (think of personality quizzes, like MBTI. A person with 51% introversion score and 49% extroversion will be counted as an introvert, and a person with the reverse scores will be counted as an extrovert, even though they're awfully similar. And with personality types, most people actually fall in the middle). I believe it should be a fuzzy boundary and that, to some extent, people should be free to choose their own labels (even if it might be different labels for people with precisely the same characteristics, as listed in my previous post).

 

I guess I've been a bit lengthy, but what I meant to get across it 'people are complicated, let's be considerate about it', that's all : )

[Marlow1]

@bare_trees No, you definitely should not leave. Without the input of Greysexuals my wife and I would never have figured out what was going on for us

 

I don't know if you know but I had a brain hemorrhage and lost my attraction to my wife. Following this all kinds of emotional problems set in for my wife. When we looked at my history we discovered that I had never been sexually attracted to anybody else, that I don't understand flirting well, that I have no interest in porn etc. And we learned a tonne of stuff about my wife too

 

It's complicated,  all relationships are, but finding out that my wife does get attracted to folk was an enigma for me. And her finding out that I cannot get attracted to others, well frankly she did not believe me. This led to many upsetting situations for both of us

 

Fortunately we found a Therapist that understands Demisexuality and they were able to guide us out of our mess. If Greysexuals stop posting about their experiences it will appear to others that Greysexualities are even more rarer than they are, and the help folk need to help themselves, it just won't be there

 

You guys are witnesses to the truth of all this, it is real, and often confusing to the person that lacks the attraction, and their partner

 

My wife was very scared when I lost my attraction to her, she thought maybe that I did not love her anymore. But nothing could be further from the truth.

 

It was not that I did not love her it was that I had forgotten our relationship. As we started dating and spending romantic, intellectual, fun times together etc, my attraction to her was restored and we are both doing well now

 

The fact that we deal with things, and experience things, very differently, very differently indeed, matters far less now. And it is because folk like yourself keep posting here, it helps folk like us understand the most important parts of our lives, and in our case AVEN allowing Greysexuals to post here has literally saved our marriage

 

 

[bare_trees]

@Marlow1 Thank you so much for sharing your story.  It's encouraging to know that AVEN has helped y'all to better understand each other and rebuild your relationship. ❤️

[rainbowocollie]

I can see the argument that greysexuality and demisexuality are moreso a flavor of sexual. I think of greysexuality as "almost asexual", typically someone who could not function like a normal sexual person in a relationship. I do think of demisexuality as grey but closer to allo than ace, since they can function in a relationship, they just need a lot of time before those feelings develop.

[aquariusabandoned]

As a grey-asexual, I label myself that because I’ve been through trauma as well as very limited sexual attraction. Grey gives me a bit more wiggle room as I experience it very differently from the norm and am a lot closer to a-sexual than allo-sexual.

[Grumpy Alien]

Everyone is welcome on AVEN. You’re definitely allowed to consider grey and demi as part of asexuality as a spectrum. There’s just a lot of us that will disagree. There’s no rule against it. If anything, I think some level of disagreement in a community is healthy because it creates intellectual dialogue. However, yes, AVEN has a lot of age old arguments that aren’t productive. C’est la vie.

[DuranDuranfan]

2 hours ago, aquariusabandoned said:

As a grey-asexual, I label myself that because I’ve been through trauma as well as very limited sexual attraction. Grey gives me a bit more wiggle room as I experience it very differently from the norm and am a lot closer to a-sexual than allo-sexual.

Same here.

[Lady.Saturnina.94]

I'm aceflux, which is a fluid form of gray-asexuality. Even though my orientation shifts from asexual to bisexual, I still feel more like I belong in the asexual community because I know I am not totally allosexual.

[Chihiro]

On 6/19/2019 at 9:39 PM, Philip027 said:

I just want it to be acknowledged that it's still not actually the same thing as asexuality, despite possibly often appearing like it.  Asexuality is so little understood and recognized in society that it really cannot afford to be represented inaccurately.

^^This

 

Personally, I would like to see a community where greysexuals can congregate and talk (I am not grey, I am asexual but who knows. One day I might experience sexual attraction once which would then make me greysexual). Simply because, 1) it can create awareness in society that there are people who experience sexual attraction minimally 2) It seems like they are hiding behind 'asexuality' by saying they are under ace umbrella. They should be proud of what they are 3) I have questions for them, but felt like those I have met here were busy trying blend into asexuality. It felt like they were afraid of being called out or they pretended to be certain way to not feel invalidated. And then there are some who constantly flip flop between grey sexuality and asexuality. I felt they were either doing it to fit in on AVEN or things said by asexuals were unnecessarily confusing them of their own identity and their needs/wants.

[FindingOutWhoIam]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 11:13 AM, Star Lion said:

I think you misunderstood what someone said. Greysexuality is a form of sexuality yet close enough to asexuality to be a part of the asexual community. But I also made a post just now about how I think a lot of asexuals mistake themselves as greysexuals

 

      On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:56 AM, Star Lion said:

I think some asexuals mistake themselves as greysexuals if we’re looking at the practicality of labels. While not believing in a spectrum, I advocate for loose interpretation of the definition of asexuality. To be greysexual is to acknowledge that you do in fact experience sexual attraction even if only on rare occasion. If your experience of sexual attraction was a whole decade ago or you haven’t experienced sexual attraction in so long that you don’t expect to experience it ever again, I believe that fits the definition of asexuality rather than greysexuality. No, greysexuals are not asexual which means that we aren’t a spectrum, but they do still have an experience that relates some to ours which is why they’re in our community

My apologies if myself or anyone else has ever made you feel unwelcomed 🍰

So asexuals can experience sexual attraction and don't experience it again for years, possibly many or forever? So lets say a person feels sexual- so they are single and do as they please. This person enters a relationship driven by sexual attraction however 9-12 months in it starts to fade. Thus fading ever more into oblivion and never really feeling it again. Nor are they attracted to others and don't want to leave the relationship. Almost like room mates at this point. Is that person asexual for having no interest in sex or attraction to others?

What if that relationship ended and the person who could be asexual regained sexual attraction however in the next LTR it ended up being the same after 9-12 months.?