Back Again 12 Years Later, Trying on Demi for Size

[firebird8]

One paragraph below has some TMI, it's marked.

 

I first discovered AVEN back in 2007 when I thought I was probably asexual. I had until that point never experienced sexual attraction and as my 20s got closer to my 30s I had come to realize that something was different about that. Then in 2008 I got into a relationship that lasted for a few years which was sexual and that made everything confusing. Now, 12 years after first considering it, here I am back wondering about this again.

 

Some of the things seem really obvious. Going through my daily life I never, not once that I can think of in my entire life, have had a spontaneous sexual attraction. I never "get turned on" or start wondering what someone would look like naked or any of that. I remember when I was in my early 20s talking to a couple of girls who were younger than me and who were giggling over a foldout page in Seventeen! magazine (shirtless guy in jeans, it was a thing back that, not sure if it still is). One of them said something about how "hot" he was, and I asked, puzzled, before I could think to censor myself, "How can you tell?" They asked what I meant and I couldn't explain, but what I meant was that I couldn't tell much of anything about a person from a still picture. I have sometimes tried, after realizing something was odd about me, to consider whether a person I saw was sexually attractive and I get anything from puzzled to sick to my stomach trying to go there mentally when looking at strangers.

 

My first romantic relationship was with a gay male minister who was trying so hard to become straight but not at all succeeding. (I can gladly report he gave that up and is happily married to the man of his dreams now.) I was sincerely in love with him and we spent so much time together and were so close that people often assumed we had just been married a long time so that we weren't touchy feely anymore. But I was never once attracted to him. It kind of grossed me out, honestly. Other people talked about how attractive he was (straight women, that is), but I didn't see it, no matter how close we were. That's part of what sent me here thinking I might be ace.

 

I don't remember ever seeing the stuff about being able to appreciate aesthetic beauty before but it makes sense. I do that a lot with women, but as soon as the clothes come off I lose all interest (at least, on TV/movies).

 

But then I got into a relationship with someone I met online and lived with him for several years. After he broke up with me, I had a few other experiences before ceasing all activities (both dating and sex) and finally feeling comfortable in my own skin again. There's a couple things I haven't been seeing people mention about being/identifying as grey or demi and I am curious if others experience these things also, maybe less commonly.

 

*Flirting: it seems commonly mentioned in definitions and articles that demisexuals find flirting confusing and would rather just talk to people and get to know them. I absolutely agree, but I am frequently accused of flirting. I am always perplexed by this because I don't know what I'm doing that's flirting so I don't know how to stop. It's usually mutual friends who see me interacting with someone else, so perhaps they are just overly sensitive to trying to pair me up with someone. But I recently had a friend tell me that when they first met me a few years back they constantly thought I "desperately wanted to sleep with" them, all the time, every time they saw me. And now I feel super awkward with that friend because I never felt that way and I don't know what I did that made them think that.

 

*Sex itself: Here's where it goes TMI: I have always been perplexed by the way everyone seems to think of orgasms as this major thing. I am fairly sure my body has them; my feet get hot and...I dunno there's other physical signs I can kind of coldly note, mentally, particularly if I'm alone. But it doesn't feel very special, or final or anything I would put forth any extra effort for. I mentioned this a while back to my therapist (I'm in therapy for major depression and general anxiety, get to that in a minute) and she said "well, then you haven't had one". But I don't think that's it. I just always feel frustrated and disappointed and...gross and kind of ashamed. When I am with another person I have to be thinking about them, as a person and trying to feel emotionally close to them, and that can be kind of satisfying, but it never lasts. When I'm alone I have to distract myself and not think about it - usually I read a (non erotic) book. I have sometimes described it as being like scratching a mosquito bite. It feels good, for a minute, but it just makes the bite itch more. That's because if I'm in a relationship and having sex, I can't stop thinking about it (it doesn't help that the people I've dated have been rather distant and infrequent and not very attentive, so there's that). I stop feeling comfortable in my own skin, like I'm not ok without it and that's actually kind of scary to think about ever going back to. Especially since I don't remember it being all that much fun to begin with. The thing is, I grew up super religious and with a lot of shame around sex and just being born a woman, so much so that I went through some gender dysphoria as a teenager and young adult. I never thought I was a man, I just felt so awful about being a woman that I completely disassociated and didn't recognize myself in mirrors and didn't know what I looked like and such. And to a greater or lesser degree, all of the sexual relationships I've had have been abusive and trampled on consent. So I don't know how much of this is me and how much of it is trauma-induced me.

 

*Making sense of the world: On a much lighter note, over the past few days I have noticed that when I'm scrolling through Facebook and see that person who is constantly complaining about dating and then complaining about being alone and then talking about watching romantic movies and so on or when I see that marriage announcement or whatever it is and I find myself thinking "why...." I feel less like I have to force myself to feel like what they are doing makes sense and I would want it too, and more like they are different from me and I don't have to pretend to understand. I'm curious whether deciding that you weren't a malfunctioning allosexual that needed to find a way to work correctly and instead that you were ok the way you were was freeing in that way.

[1compositionbook]

Hey firebird8! Before I start, you should know I think you are super strong and don't need to worry about being confused at all! Look to yourself to find who you are, not who others think you are or should be! Everyone experiences these things differently and you in no way need to change who you naturally are, you are loved! 

About flirting, I am totally on the same page. I feel like flirting is a waste of time because only end up learning so much about the actual person, you only voice your physical interest. Don't think to hard about how others take what you say as "flirting", chances are you are having a completely normal conversation and the other person has a different perception because they are either looking for a relationship, avoiding a relationship, etc. I understand how awful and/or awkward it can feel to accidentally lead someone on and make them you think you like them, when you're really don't. This is in no way your fault and the best advice I have is to try and let it go. In the situation you described, you still kept your friend despite the perceived "sexual tension" on their end awhile ago, so the past doesn't need to poorly affect your friendship in the present! If they are past that, you don't need to hold on to it either! Even if someone thinks you are flirting and everything goes downhill, there are so many more people out there who won't get the wrong signals and you'll be even greater friends with!

 

If you think you have had an orgasm, you probably have. Everyone experiences orgasms differently, especially depending on their sex drive. I might get a little TMI here, but I completely relate to having orgasms like the ones you described. It doesn't feel special and after it I feel embarrassed. I highly stress that you don't need to feel ashamed or guilty one bit! Orgasms are a natural body function and sometimes they can be unpredictable. I promise you, a bunch of other people feel the same way We are humans and sometimes our mind and body aren't on the same page. On the other hand, I have had some stronger orgasms that do feel special. Speaking form this standpoint, your orgasms are totally valid and your therapist probably hasn't been through the same stuff as you. Basically, I've has orgasms that feel special and ones that don't, and they are virtually the same, only in the ones that feel more special I'm having a higher sex drive at the moment. Your gut feeling about your sex life is probably better than your therapist's, so if you think you've had an orgasm, you have. I encourage you to try not feel frustrated or disappointed at all! After all, sex is a very small part of a full life and sexual orientation is a teeny tiny piece of who you are! Don't allow anyone or anything to cause you to feel pressured to have either full blown or no orgasms! Your sex life is your own and other people can just deal with it. If you don't have fun during sex or enjoy it at all, you by no means have to! The most important and the strongest relationships in life are based on connection, not sex! Even romantic relationships only last if a personal connection is made.

 

Your religion is your choice, not your parents or anyone else's! A little disclaimer before I begin; religion is a really tricky subject these days, and I'll do my best, but if in some way I offend anyone who reads this, I totally didn't mean to imply anything negative! If you want to get involved in a religion and it causes you to fell ashamed about being a woman or having sex, I personally don't encourage you to follow that religion, as you will only feel bad about yourself. Womanhood is an amazing thing, don't let anyone convince you it's not! Many religions have different beliefs about sex, and some view sex as good. However, I'd suggest learning more about your religion if you want to pursue it, because there can be many different viewpoints on topics like these in a single religion! Again, your religion is your choice; get informed and make a decision that you are at peace with! If you choose to be nonreligious, don't let anyone make you feel bad about that!

 

Getting who you are and who your trauma made you mixed up can be really difficult. It gets confusing and overwhelming. Do the best you can to continue taking steps to overcome your trauma, and in the meantime, love yourself! What's helped me more than therapy is taking a step back from life, stop chasing who others are telling me to be, and start finding who I actually am! This helped me love myself, which in turn helped me start looking forwards in life. You are a valuable person who has survived so much! You deserve respect and love, don't let anyone, not even yourself, make you feel like you are less!

 

What's been most freeing for me is accepting who I am in the moment! In all honesty, as I've continued with therapy among other things, my sexual orientation has changed from time to time. Instead of reading about how you should feel, look to yourself to find how you personally feel, then try reaching out to find others who feel the same! There are more people than you think who can relate to you, and they all support you! No matter what you are feeling, you are worth love and don't need to change!

[firebird8]

Thank you so much for your lovely reply. I think you are very right that being myself and not worrying about who other people think I am or think I should be is important. I actually saw my therapist again recently and we were talking about trusting myself to know my own feelings and emotions and desires instead of second guessing all the time. 

[firebird8]

So the more I think about it and read other things in this forum, here's what I keep thinking:

-I don't recall ever being sexually attracted to anyone. I have had sex, but I actually tended to think people were just "not repulsive" rather than attractive. Even when I was in a long term relationship with someone I cared about, I never could shake the idea that he just really wasn't very good looking (the consensus of all his friends was that he was indeed very good looking, so this was something that puzzled me). I can't explain, though, why I continued to be sexually active. 

-i don't recall ever having a crush. I used to think I had a crush on this one older woman in my life (older than me) who was like a mentor and now is a good friend. But I really respected her writing and wanted her approval of my writing, so I worked hard to become a better writer, especially when I was writing for her (I contributed to her blog). That's...Apparently not how crushes work.

-I can't wrap my head around romantic attraction. I've never understood jealousy either, so I've never understood why people care so much about relationships being monogamous. I always assumed I wasn't a jealous person because I had never been cheated on, but maybe that's about romantic feelings? I always feel like if our relationship is good, what business is it of mine what other relationships you have? 

 

If I try to reconcile everything that has happened in my past I might never figure it out. But I feel like now if I don't get attracted to people I might as well identify as asexual moving forward. 

[Guest]

I don't think what you experienced was gender dysphoria, as gender dysphoria is related to people being trans. It was still obviously stress and you're still very much valid. But it sounds (quite obviously) like internalized misogyny to the breaking point. Possibly body dysmophoria? Is there a term for what you experienced? (

[firebird8]

Sorry I think that's the term I wanted. And yes, it was due to internalized misogyny. I don't think most people who use the bible, either Christians or Jews pay much attention to passages in the old testament about women being ritually unclean due to menstruating, but my mother emphasized reading the whole book, cover to cover, on a regular basis, so I did pay attention to those types of passages. 

[Philip027]

Quote

I don't think what you experienced was gender dysphoria, as dysphoria is strictly related to people being trans.

Dysphoria simply is the opposite of euphoria (much like how dystopia is the opposite of utopia) and all of these terms can refer to all sorts of things, not just trans- related.

[Guest]

i've been oofed 

 

ok