Guardian newspaper on demisexual pride cups

[Prufrock, but like, worse]

1 hour ago, Dreamsexual said:

Was.

Is no longer, at least not in any systemic or legal degree, except perhaps for a small number sexual preferences to a minor extent.

Um. Maybe that's true across the pond, but there are still places in the US where you can legally be fired for being gay, and "gay panic" is considered justification for murder on a similar level as self-defense. And that's not to speak of theocracies and such where it can get you killed by the state itself, or impossible-and-undesirable-to-legislate-against persecution floating around in the culture.

 

...this is just a definition debate about pride, isn't it?

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 8:42 PM, J. ALFRED PRUFROCK said:

where you can legally be fired for being gay

..

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 9:02 PM, Telecaster68 said:

lity, etc now.

.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 10:17 PM, Telecaster68 said:

So what does Pride stand for that the average liberal dinner party doesn't, in that case? 

.

[bare_trees]

9 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Is this one of the quotes from the piece people are objecting to?

 

Could someone actually list actual persecution and oppression of demis and greys though (persecution, rather than feeling a bit awkward in sex conversations, that is)?

Many are queer, so we fall into the LGBTQ umbrella, anyway.  And for those who are straight, well I'm not about to be someone who polices them, any more than I would ask someone going into a bathroom if they're the right sex to go into that bathroom. (Referring to the Target hullabaloo). (sp?)

 

Re: the quote.  I read it as mocking and belittling people and their identities.

[BeakLove]

8 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

The identity is 'liberal tolerance of all reasonable varieties of sexual preference', it doesn't need to be locked down to a specific number of identities anymore.  If it does that, not only will it become exclusionary and start to look like Gatekeeping (or worse, bullying), but all that will happen is that you'll get a proliferation of various Prides who will each have to fight for their specific identities ... Which is silly.  We're last the point of limiting human sexuality to just a half dozen boxes, IMHO.

Then it just becomes "Pride" march about literally nothing, because presumably heterosexuality is also a member of "reasonable varieties of sexual preference".  I don't get what's wrong with so-called gatekeeping i.e. having categories/groups with defined boundaries. 

 

On the piece generally, unfortunately the exasperation of the author is actually the reaction many people have when they encounter terms like gray-ace, demisexual, demi-ace, fray-mantic, etc.; a chopping up of the sexual spectrum into useless, tattered, meaningless ribbons. It's hard to take claims of oppression seriously when half of these identities lack a definition within any denotations, and many of them are indistinguishable from being a normal, straight person to a would be abuser. So as someone else asked: what is the mechanism by which they can be oppressed?

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 5:21 AM, BeakLove said:

Then it just becomes "Pride" march about literally nothing, because presumably heterosexuality is also a member of "reasonable varieties of sexual preference".

.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:49 AM, CBC said:

I don't see the point in straight cis women being in a Pride parade

. .

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:56 AM, Telecaster68 said:

hey're not

.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:54 AM, Telecaster68 said:

when someone's choice of gender to partner with is no more commented on than their hair colour by anyone, ever, Pride should let go of any idea of fighting oppression.

.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:58 AM, CBC said:

What's the point then. It's just a big party with no meaning.

.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:58 AM, CBC said:

Because transracial is not a thing.

 

I really really want to make an otherkin comment, however I'll refrain save for this sentence I'm typing right now.

.

 

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:03 AM, Telecaster68 said:

What on earth is the point of that

.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:15 AM, CBC said:

geared towards the black community?

I.

[Homer]

2 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

My whole arguemnt is that I don't think it is anymore, nor should it, and that it should become 'Sexuality Pride' not 'Gay Pride'.

My stance is that pride requires an accomplishment, which does not apply to sexuality altogether. You are who you are. So from my POV, they don't make any sense to begin with. Note that does not mean that people shouldn't get together to celebrate whatever they feel like celebrating. You do you, I just don't see the point in being proud of things you were born with. That's about as useful as brown eyes pride or tall pride. I'd rather have celebrations based on accomplishments, gay marriage, certain genders being officially recognised, that kind of thing.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 12:14 PM, Homer said:

My stance is that pride requires an accomplishment, which does not apply to sexuality altogether. 

.

[Homer]

Nah, I'm too lazy to fight a pointless internet debate. I've tossed in my two cents and now you're free to agree with it or think that I'm a douchecanoe or whatever you like. No skin off my trunk

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 12:30 PM, Homer said:

Nah, I'm too lazy to fight a pointless internet debate. I've tossed in my two cents and now you're free to agree with it or think that I'm a douchecanoe or whatever you like. No skin off my trunk

.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 12:42 PM, CBC said:

Honestly I'm a pretty reasonable gatekeeper, I think. Not trying to cause personal offence.

..

 

[Homer]

3 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

Do they not a have a right to see their sexuality accepted and tolerated?  I have no desire to play 'minority' or 'oppression' cards.

You know what the shortest path to acceptance is? Not to make a big deal about it. "This is my friend Mark.", not "This is my demisapiopanplatonic* friend Mark." Honestly, not giving a shit is the ultimate sign of acceptance.

 

* that hurt to write tbh

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 12:52 PM, Homer said:

Honestly, not giving a shit is the ultimate sign of acceptance.

 

[Homer]

I know it's not for me. There are many things that contribute a lot more to who I am than not wanting to bang. It's .5% of my personality, at best.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 1:00 PM, Homer said:

I know it's not for me. There are many things that contribute a lot more to who I am than not wanting to bang. It's .5% of my personality, at best.

 

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 2:55 PM, CBC said:

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious (?), but that doesn't sound particularly healthy. My sexuality is important to me but so is a helluva lot of other stuff.

 

[Dreamsexual]

,

 

 

 

 

[bare_trees]

7 hours ago, CBC said:

Tolerating and accepting everyone is not the precise point of Pride and similar events, though. Minority celebrations are (duh) celebrations of minorities, often borne of historical oppression.

 

But ok sure, everyone just get together and celebrate being a person. Or, you know, whatever else they identify as.

 

I don't feel like I can make my point any further. 🤷🏼‍♀️

This makes complete sense.  I can't argue with it.  We're not at a point in society wherein we can just be like "lEt'S CelEbRAte diVeRSitY iN EverYOnE!" because the point is that no one is firing, denying marriage licenses, health care, the right to exist to people because they are straight and cis.  I know you and others have already made this point.  But stay with me.

 

Practically speaking, are we really going to go to organizers of these events and be like, "Ok, this person riding this float is like, ace, but are they gay ace or what?"  "That lady who's demi...is she a lesbian or bi....or just a straight demi lady?  'Cause if it's the latter, she has to go."  I get the argument that a straight demi or ace individual fits more into the ally box than the LGBT+ box, but how does one police this without unnecessary drama that takes away from just enjoying Pride?

[BeakLove]

1 hour ago, Dreamsexual said:

So heterosexuality is 'literally nothing'?  Like, invalidating the majority of the species is not the ultimate orientation elitism, lol

I think you have to put in a very hard shift at the mental acrobatics gym to come to that conclusion.

 

Quote

Yes, I totally would include straight people.  Do they not a have a right to see their sexuality accepted and tolerated?  I have no desire to play 'minority' or 'oppression' cards.

Heterosexualty is already accepted and tolerated. For many people in same sex relationships it is not a semantic card game; a lack of acceptance is a real, tangible, practical problem. Gay marriage wasn't exactly passed a lifetime ago. And it is still not legal in most countries. They are a minority. They are oppressed. It's getting better but there's plenty of way to go.

As for the other minority "identities", I can only repeat that you're not going to get spat at, rejected for a job, nor discriminated against for bring "grey-a" because nobody in the known universe outside of AVEN and a guy selling Budweiser cups knows what it is, or how to even tell. At worst, you'll get lightly mocked by people who don't think it's a "thing". I'm sure it doesn't feel pleasant but that's not oppression. Nor is finding it hard to find a partner. LGB people are correct, in my view, to be wary of an "inclusiveness" which ultimately trivialises the issues.

 

Quote

 

Lets celebrate all the identities!  Yay!  I have a dream that one day straight cis women will walk arm in arm with lesbians at sexuality pride.  That you'll see asexuals, robosexuals, polamorists, objectums, transgenderism, transspeciesists, oneirosexuals, same genetic attractees, bisexuals, panssxuals, gays, proculssxuals, greysexuals, transracial demiromantic asexual cis men, and every other variety of 'informed consent' identity walking arm in arm together.

 

Interesting list. I have nothing to say that wouldn't be offensive.

 

As an indulgence though, why would asexuals/greysexuals want to participate at your hypothetical sexuality pride - surely a celebration of sex, no? 

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:06 PM, BeakLove said:

As for the other minority "identities", I can only repeat that you're not going to get spat at, rejected for a job, nor discriminated against 

 

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:02 PM, bare_trees said:

because the point is that no one is firing, denying marriage licenses, health care, the right to exist to people because they are straight and cis

 

[Dreamsexual]

.