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michaeld

Ace space in London

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yazybee
1 hour ago, Sennkestra said:
 

(emphasis added by me)

Can I suggest that you actually read some of the research and articles that have already been posted, or even just basic research on alcoholism and alchohol abuse? It's not a simple matter of "exercising self-control", and for many people any social spaces that so thoroughly permeated by alcohol and alcohol advertising are going to be inherently unsafe and unwelcoming. Not to mention that no amount of self-control can turn an underage person into an adult who can access and participate freely in spaces like bars and clubs.

Even for those who don't have to worry about being young or having vulnerabilities to alcohol and peer pressure, there are also many aces who are simply uncomfortable with the kind of atmosphere that rampant drinking leads to - many aces in my local group are already hesitant to participate for long in many public Pride events simply because of the high levels of drinking (and resultant drunkenness) that can result. One of the best things we have been able to do for them is host peripheral pride events that aren't so focused on alchohol and nightclub culture, so that they can participate freely without fear. This event is basically the opposite of that.

Any space that is so centered around alcohol is going to unwelcoming to many parts of the community. If you aren't one of them, then great! That's good for you that these aren't barriers for you. But please understand that this is going to be a barrier that prevents many people from being able to participate; and that you can't just handwave it off as only a problem for people with no "self-control", as if they don't deserve to have ace spaces that support them as well.

And if you choose to continue to purse this, at least try to be smart about it. Read up on what Ad Agency groups like Revolt London are about. Understand that their client is budweiser, not you - they are only interested in supporting you so far as they can use you:
 

(Translation for folks who don't work in marketing already: their selling point is that they save companies money by "picking a fight" in order to get interest groups to shill for them for free instead of having to actually pay for regular advertising).

Understand that they are only about getting free publicity and boosting their brand, at the lowest cost possible. They don't care if the only publicity you get is hostile backlash. They do not have your interests at heart, so if you plan to wade in to a deal with them you need to be willing to be suspicious of everything to do, and to fight tooth and nail to make sure you're not just getting used to no avail. Don't be afraid of demanding more because it makes you feel selfish - they certainly won't care about gratitude or being selfless and neither should you.

 

If you aren't willing to walk away, it's your responsibility to at least make sure you are wringing every drop out of them that you can, and that you are returning those gains to the community, not just yourselves. If you want events or handouts at their event, that has their name on it, tell them they should pay for it. The amount of money that a large corporation like this can write off for a single promotional event could fund a tiny org like AVEN for years, and they almost certainly have access to products and services at better rates than you can get. Take any donations offered and use them to support events for those who can't access spaces like the club of aces; use them to help the people who can be harmed by the careless promotion of risky substances like alcohol.

Can I suggest that you keep in mind that the Board members of AVEN and I are closely involved in the execution of the project and know how alcohol-focused it will be? You should also remember that we have asked members of the asexual community about what they would want from an asexual bar and that feedback is being applied to the execution of the project. Oh, and keep in mind that we are communicating regularly with Revolt about everything from the venue, to the contracts, to what's going to happen on the multiple days, right down to the names of the drinks. 

 

Of course, I would suggest that anyone with drinking problems is careful at the event, or any event where there is a proximity to alcohol - i.e. any pride event, any party, or even any art exhibition - and should probably not attend if its risky for their health. But considering that many of those at the UK Asexuality Conference last year happily went to a bar afterwards to continue to event, without issue, I'd say that the mere presence of alcohol isn't going to be a problem. There will be a variety of drinking options, including non-alcoholic Budweiser options, and many ace-focused activities so that everyone feels involved and entertained. There will also be a quiet space for those who just want to chill. 

 

We're not doing anything for free. And it was Budweiser who picked the cause, Revolt are just the ones handling the details. I have met personally with those from Budweiser and from Revolt and we're all very excited about bringing asexual visibility to Pride. It's a shame that you're not into the idea but feel free to put together your own event that meets your standards better. 

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Kimmie.

To be honest if I had the opportunity to go i am not sure i would because I am not comfortable around bars and places like that. Plus the fact that the cups are made of plastic don't feel right either. I work for a really eco heavy company. And I don't really feel welcome to pride anyway. 

 

 

But for those of you that does , that is great have fun.

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Sennkestra
On 6/5/2019 at 12:09 PM, michaeld said:

I am certainly not getting paid; I am here to represent AVEN, a non-profit organisation I volunteer for. My above comments are solely about AVEN. What Yasmin does is their own business; they are doing a lot more work on this than I am, and they are acting in their own right, not as an AVEN volunteer per se at this point.

 

1 hour ago, yazybee said:

We're not doing anything for free. 

5 hours ago, yazybee said:

I'll probably be in the ads so we'll see what happens. ;) 

I'm confused - who is and isn't receiving compensation here?

 

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MaybeImANinja

Alot of you make me feel sick to be one of you.
 

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MaybeImANinja

Im hardly going to give you a chance to give me a strike now am i.

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MaybeImANinja

Just some of the Anti A sentiment.  

The sanctimonious arrogance. 
 

Reading some of the stuff in here specifically.  People should be ashamed of themselves.

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Member131995

@MaybeImANinja Yeah...reading through some of this...I feel you on that but I'm not really seeing an Anti A vibe, just some people don't agree with this situation. I'm kind of staying away from this whole discussion in general.

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MaybeImANinja

Its usually  pretty easy for me to ignore alot of the things on this site,

But the stuff on here,  just made me feel uneasy sharing any identity at all

 

 

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michaeld
2 hours ago, Sennkestra said:

I'm confused - who is and isn't receiving compensation here?

I can only speak for AVEN. The statement above I hope makes it clear: if AVEN is due a contribution, we will hold a consultation with the AVEN membership and the ace community more widely about what to do with this money, or whether to ask for a donation to be made to another charity in our name, before making a final decision. What Yasmin does is their own business.

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Redbeard
57 minutes ago, michaeld said:

I can only speak for AVEN. The statement above I hope makes it clear: if AVEN is due a contribution, we will hold a consultation with the AVEN membership and the ace community more widely about what to do with this money, or whether to ask for a donation to be made to another charity in our name, before making a final decision. What Yasmin does is their own business.

If AVEN is due a contribution?  IF?

 

How is that still an "if" at this point?

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Siggy

Hi Yazybee!  I'm glad you were able to see my response.

 

I think you are slightly misunderstanding my concern.  I am not worried that people at your particular event will be pressured to drink, and start to abuse alcohol.  I'm sure the event will be fun and safe for those who participate.

 

My concern is about the long-term effects of accepting, or even celebrating glorified advertisements for alcohol.  Lots of people are reading news articles about Budweiser's partnership with AVEN, and with the amazing Yasmin Benoit, and will say to themselves, maybe I should try a Bud light.  And maybe that's not a big deal, if it's just this once.  But if activists just accept this over and over again, we may create a drinking culture that is impossible to reverse.  It happened to LGBT groups, and it's extremely difficult to address because most people won't even admit there's a problem.

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yazybee
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Sennkestra said:

 

I'm confused - who is and isn't receiving compensation here?

 

Last time I checked, AVEN as an organisation does, not as individuals. All of the charities involved are compensated in the #FlyTheFlag campaign was compensated for the use of their logos.

 

I'm not technically part of AVEN so I'm compensated as an 'influencer.' But I'm as involved in the execution as AVEN is.

Edited by yazybee

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Kimmie.
5 hours ago, MaybeImANinja said:

Just some of the Anti A sentiment.  

The sanctimonious arrogance. 
 

Reading some of the stuff in here specifically.  People should be ashamed of themselves.

I guess I am one of those and I understand you. And I am sorry. I was thinking of how we could fix all the criticism that the asexual community have because of this. 

 

I really love this idea overall. And I guess I can look past the sponsor. 

And @yazybee you are doing a great job in this. This will be a great place for many aces to retreat to relax in.

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Skycaptain

I personally have no complaints if AVEN receives funding we can put to good use. As a hypothetical, I'm sure a lot of members would be happy if it allowed us to upgrade chat for example 

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LeChat
4 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

I guess I am one of those and I understand you. And I am sorry. I was thinking of how we could fix all the criticism that the asexual community have because of this. 

 

I really love this idea overall. And I guess I can look past the sponsor. 

And @yazybee you are doing a great job in this. This will be a great place for many aces to retreat to relax in.

I'm confused. Was that post really directed at you and others, just for voicing a concern about possible consequences for others and AVEN? Normally, people are allowed to think differently, and constructive criticism isn't seen as being "arrogant," aggressive, or a threat, if it's brought up, politely.

 

So, it doesn't make sense to me for people to have to apologize for being concerned about others' health or for thinking about the possible consequences for AVEN, asexuals, etc., especially when Admods and members have and hold discussions about these types of projects and ask members for their opinions on Site Comments, before accepting or making changes to AVEN, to make sure it's in align with TOS, safe for members, etc. It's not "arrogant" for others to think about how decisions might affect others; it's just having a discussion. Laws are different in the U.S., from the U.K.: here, people have to be 21+ to drink (I know that it's younger in the U.K.), and Admods have mentioned in the past that AVEN is a U.S. company that is expected to follow U.S. laws. That's another reason why I'd expressed concern, in earlier posts.

 

"I'm sorry, for being concerned about others, due to hearing about teens', young-adults', etc. alcohol/addiction-related deaths (including family members'), worrying about possible internet backlash, etc." sounds like a weird thing to apologize for.

 

I hadn't heard of or come across alcohol companies sponsoring other sex ed forums that are also for young members, aged +13, like, Scarleteen, so I was surprised that AVEN was thinking of accepting their donation, especially when they've held somewhat recent discussions about concern for youth and pornography. 

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Member131995
7 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

I guess I am one of those and I understand you. And I am sorry. I was thinking of how we could fix all the criticism that the asexual community have because of this. 

I don't think this was directed at you @Kimmie.and if it was, that's sad and people should be ashamed of themselves for criticising others when all they're doing is expressing their concerns. This is a forum which in Ancient Rome was a center of public business which to me means people are free to express their ideas as long and as often and as openly as they want. As long as people are expressing their ideas respectfully, I think everyone has a right to their opinions, even if others don't agree. So, I'm sorry you're having to apologise when all you were doing was expressing your viewpoint in what I saw as nothing but a respectful manner. 

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MaybeImANinja

Try not to get bogged down in who it was aimed at.  Try to not get preemptively mad either. 

The fun thing about what i said, is, if someone looked at that comment, and immediately thought it applied to them, They probably have a reason for thinking it was aimed at them.

Niohmaye. Just gonna copy and paste two things you just said there, because you know.  Gotta do it.

8 minutes ago, Niohmaye said:

people should be ashamed of themselves for criticising others when all they're doing is expressing their concerns

 

8 minutes ago, Niohmaye said:

I think everyone has a right to their opinions, even if others don't agree.

You should probably edit it to "everyone should agree with me and anyone who does not should be ashamed. at least that would be honest  

Also noticed some of your previous comments are gone. that looks really good.

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LeChat

@Siggy Wow. I looked at your blog comments, one of which mentioned this topic being discussed on Twitter.

 

Some comments are making jokes about how asexuals are asexual because they drink Budweiser (because the commentators feel it's not as good of a beer, seemingly implying that "real," "ordinary," sexual people drink stronger, alcoholic brands, which makes their sexuality function in a "normal" way), how asexuals are "dweebs who drink it, expecting hot women in the commercials to show up," etc.

 

I also came across a link from a radio host who was also making fun of the fact that asexuals are a part of pride, saying that it didn't make sense to him, like "being proud of an attraction you don't have."

 

So, now this seems to be another thing/stereotype that asexuals have to work hard to dispel. :(

 

So, far, I'm not seeing it helping educate others who aren't asexual about asexuality, but just confusing others, where they're just making jokes about asexuals drinking Budweiser as being the reason for their lack of sexual attraction to other people or how they still don't understand asexuals and asexuality.

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MaybeImANinja

It really isnt  InquisitivePhilosopher  It sounds more like hi-jinks, Bud is one of the more wide ranging beverages.  

you gotta remember, everyone makes jokes about everything.  You taking it that seriously, is inviting such behaviour. 

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Siggy
16 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

@Siggy Wow. I looked at your blog comments, one of which mentioned this topic being discussed on Twitter.

 

Some comments are making jokes about how asexuals are asexual because they drink Budweiser (because the commentators feel it's not as good of a beer, seemingly implying that "real," "ordinary," sexual people drink stronger, alcoholic brands, which makes their sexuality function in a "normal" way), how asexuals are "dweebs who drink it, expecting hot women in the commercials to show up," etc.

 

I also came across a link from a radio host who was also making fun of the fact that asexuals are a part of pride, saying that it didn't make sense to him, like "being proud of an attraction you don't have."

Yeah, I can't recommend reading the Twitter comments.  Or any of the related news articles.  I subscribe to google alerts on news articles that mention asexuality, and it has not been good lately.

 

The optimistic viewpoint, is that the negative reactions mean that this is reaching people who have otherwise remained ignorant.  The pessimistic viewpoint is that most of those people still remain ignorant now.  The way I see it, if there was a news article that simply showed the asexual flag and explained the meaning of each color, I would not consider it very good representation.  But it is what it is.  Anyway, I figure AVEN and Yasmin have little power over what Budweiser decides to tweet.

 

I mentioned in my article that I'm a craft beer person--and I say that in order to make it clear I'm not criticizing people's personal choices.  From the craft beer point of view, yes, Budweiser is a bad beer, preferred by people who don't really like beer and just want something to get buzzed.  But I take this topic seriously enough that I feel it inappropriate to express any beer elitism now.  Lots of people don't really like beer and that's okay.

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Member131995

@MaybeImANinja I'm sorry, this honestly wasn't directed at you at all. I'll be quiet now😞

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MaybeImANinja

so is this still going on ? whats happening ?

 

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Skycaptain

@MaybeImANinja, yes it is still happening, however I'm not the coordinator 

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kelico
7 hours ago, MaybeImANinja said:

so is this still going on ? whats happening ?

 

Yup, it's still happening. There should be a proper announcement within the next couple of days. : ) 

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michaeld

Dates now confirmed and tickets available:

 

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Kelly

And it sold out!

 

Tickets were free, and the place is now fully booked.

 

Have a great time. :) Yasmin is working on a playlist for the event. What would you like to hear?

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AceMissBehaving

That’s so great!! Congrats!

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