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if demisexuality is so common, why do my experiences strongly contradict that?


bare_trees

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bare_trees

One thing I've read many times on this forum is that demisexuality is so common it could almost be considered the default sexuality--that most people are demi, they just don't say so or know the term to apply it to themselves.  Most people don't desire sex until an emotional, romantic bond has been formed, in other words.

 

So why have my experiences said otherwise?  Bad luck?  Back when I was dating, it was frustrating as hell, because every woman I went out with wanted to have sex immediately.  Many of them expected it on the first date, and if it didn't happen?  Well, then obviously there was nothing there, as far as they were concerned.  Some were willing to wait a few dates, but a few dates was never enough for me.  I'm like....look, it's gonna take like, at least a year for me to feel ready for something like that.  Maybe not that long, but most likely, yeah.  All but one of the women I dated before I settled down wanted sex right then or maybe in a couple of weeks?  If not, they were gone.  I remember a friend telling me, "If someone really cares about you, they'll wait."  So, obviously that does happen for some, and I feel lucky that eventually I did find someone who would (oddly enough, a man).

 

Has anyone else had these kinds of experiences, and did they make you feel that identifying as demi or Gray-A was that much more important when dating?

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Celyn: The Lutening

I think your experiences describe being demi perfectly, and jibe well with my experience too.

 

I would say that demi is absolutely not the default sexuality. Rather, it's been confused with the ideology that it is somehow better to wait until marriage, promoted by most religions.

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If it takes you about a year before you feel anything sexual towards another person, especially if you don't really know if it's ever going to click in for that specific person, then yeah, that's in line with what I see as demisexual - it's a type of sexuality in the grey area that has more in common with asexuality than mainstream sexuality because of how long it takes the person to feel sexual towards a partner.

 

From what I've seen, when people say that demisexuality is common, they're referring to people using the term "demisexual" to mean that they don't feel comfortable with sex until they get to know the person a bit (which some have said will only take them a few weeks). That's quite different from not feeling any sexual attraction or desire towards another person until you've been dating them for upwards of a year.

 

I have a question, though - what do you think of people identifying as demisexual if it only takes them a few weeks and a handful of dates to get to that point? Do you think it affects how the word is perceived and how accurately it reflects your experiences?

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bare_trees
49 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

 

 

I have a question, though - what do you think of people identifying as demisexual if it only takes them a few weeks and a handful of dates to get to that point? Do you think it affects how the word is perceived and how accurately it reflects your experiences?

My instinct is to say, "that's not it!  You don't understand!" to those who see it that way, but, at the end of the day I think it's more important to let people identify with what feels right to them.  I keep going back and forth because I don't think I fully understand my own identity.  All I know for sure is that sex and gender are irrelevant to me, and that I don't consider myself as sexual as most people.  I can't fault someone else who is just trying to figure who they are, looking for community so they feel less alone, and seeking a better understanding of what they want out of life.

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Celyn: The Lutening
54 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

I have a question, though - what do you think of people identifying as demisexual if it only takes them a few weeks and a handful of dates to get to that point? Do you think it affects how the word is perceived and how accurately it reflects your experiences?

I  don't like it at all because it's basically demi erasure. 

If they want to make themselves distinct from people who would be down for one night stands/sex on the first date, let them make their own term. Don't co-opt an ace-spec identity. 

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bare_trees
3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

 

Sexual people might take a while before they feel comfortable having sex with someone, but generally we're well aware we fancy them right from the start. We just don't want to have sex with them right away. Obviously this can vary from partner to partner.

Maybe the posters who used to say the opposite have moved on from the forum.  Not sure.  Or maybe they'll pop up now that I started this thread, but they had argued that the vast majority of people are demisexual, and that it's rare for people to experience initial attraction.  

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Because a lot of allosexuals would like to believe that they and their relationships are "deeper" than the mere physical, whatever the fuck either of those actually mean. A lot of them would deny that what they are primarily drawn to is the physical which then becomes "real" love and a deep, emotional connection.

 

I have someone in my life who actually went so far as to say that they are demi because they're attracted to their partner more after some time into the rship, after they've gotten "emotionally" close (quelle surprise! So are most people. You are *not* special). All the time completely oblivious that they seem to fall in "love" with every other person they fuck more than twice and that unlike a demisexual who does NOT feel any physical attraction unless there is a deep emotional and intellectual one FIRST, they develop a "deep" emotional and "intellectual" connection because of the physical and genital one.

 

If  physical attraction and sex make you "love" someone and create an emotional and intellectual closeness with someone you would have little  in common otherwise, so be it. Just don't try to pretend that it's some profound connection between souls. Own who you are... even if it's slightly pathetic.

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HorizonWalker

I'm still pretty new to all of this myself, but saying that demisexuality is so common doesn't seem to be true given that hookup culture is so prevalent nowadays and that you're almost expected to have sex with somebody just after a short time of dating them. As Solovei says, people like the idea that their relationships are built primarily on deep emotional connections more than sexual attraction and say as much. If demisexuality really was the norm, then things like one-night stands and hookup culture wouldn't be as normalized (and I bet prostitution would not have had as large a presence in the past).

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14 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

They are deeper. Just because a relationship includes physical attraction, doesn't mean it's only physical attraction. But sexual/physical attraction has to be there, just as not finding your partner boring, or morally repugnant, has to be there.

 

And for sexuals, having a sexual element to the relationship simply does make it a more visceral, intimate relationship than ones where they don't have that element. Whether that's any deeper than people who don't ever have any sexual element, nobody can tell, as it's an entirely subjective experience.

My bad. I meant *some* relationships are purely/mostly physical but people fool themselves they're something more (not that they have to be something more). Had something (and someone) more specific in mind and it came out the wrong way.

 

Even more specifically, I meant people for whom strong physical attraction leads to developing (or thinking they've developed) other types of closeness with the person... and then the physical thing starts to wane and, surprise, there isn't much there after all.

 

Did not quite phrase it right.

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Anthracite_Impreza

@bare_trees I genuinely do think it's because demisexual has come to mean "anyone who won't put out in the first week of dating". That was never the original definition of course, but misinformation spreads like wildfire. Proper demisexuality is less common because there's usually some sort of initial attraction to all relationships/encounters.

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Lonemathsytoothbrushthief
4 hours ago, bare_trees said:

My instinct is to say, "that's not it!  You don't understand!" to those who see it that way, but, at the end of the day I think it's more important to let people identify with what feels right to them.  I keep going back and forth because I don't think I fully understand my own identity.  All I know for sure is that sex and gender are irrelevant to me, and that I don't consider myself as sexual as most people.  I can't fault someone else who is just trying to figure who they are, looking for community so they feel less alone, and seeking a better understanding of what they want out of life.

I loved your answer ❤️ I agree with everything you've said about demisexuality. Planning to go to Pride(s) this year with demi and bi flags but similarly to you it's taken me a long time to figure myself out.

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I think there are different levels of demisexuality.  Every label we put on desires and behaviour has blurry edges where it fades into something else.

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10 minutes ago, PaganUnicorn said:

@Solovei I *partially* agree with what you say but your view of things is a bit narrow. You look too much at sex and the physical when theres other things at play.

 

There is more to the physical part than just hormones. Theres a whole set of intimate acts that it leads to, some of which are more meaningful for some individuals, others others.

What does it mean when "its all about sex"? it means its about those acts and/or how much pleasure the other person can give you.

 

Bottom line is i think that theres more to romantic feelings than how the other person makes you feel, be it physically or through some character they play or masturbatory fantasy they happen to fulfill. Not a whole lot of connection here.

 

I do believe sex can be used to bond with other people.

I thought I was perfectly clear that I had specific types of relationships in mind, based almost entirely on physical attraction. And yes, sex causes closeness. If there is nothing else *but* the physical attraction and the closeness it causes, such as it as it is, if it's the main - and often only - thing in a relationship, it is always going to be an inferior relationship to one where there are other things that draw people together. 

 

For a real demisexual (and not those who think that being more attracted to someone you're in a rship than a stranger in the street makes you a demisexual) sex is an expression of what we feel for someone, of the emotional and intellectual closeness we've developed for them, not the reason why we've developed an emotional closeness.

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6 hours ago, Solovei said:

For a real demisexual (and not those who think that being more attracted to someone you're in a rship than a stranger in the street makes you a demisexual) sex is an expression of what we feel for someone, of the emotional and intellectual closeness we've developed for them, not the reason why we've developed an emotional closeness.

Sex can mean different things at different times, which means I can have casual sex and that fact says nothing whatsoever about how I feel about sex with my partner.

 

And, sex doesn't cause emotional closeness... emotional closeness makes sex better. You're confusing temporal proximity with cause and effect. Take sexuals at their word when they say sex is an expression of emotion. 

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Celyn: The Lutening

There are people who develop emotional closeness after sex with sex as a prerequisite (I'm sure there's a label for that somewhere) but I'm sure that this

4 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

 

And, sex doesn't cause emotional closeness... emotional closeness makes sex better

Is more representative of the allo experience. 

 

The difference between that and demisexuality is:

1) Frequency - we don't form the bond readily, most demis will only have developed sexual attraction to one or two people ever

2) Length of time taken for the bond to develop. Seems to be about 6-12 months for demis, which is why dating is difficult as most allos will only wait a few weeks max

3) Until that happens we are functionally ace.

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Quote

A demisexual person is someone who does not experience sexual attraction to another person unless or until they have formed an emotional connection with that person.

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Demisexual

 

The misconception a lot of people seem to have here is sexual attraction.

 

Quote

Sexual attraction is an emotional response sexual people feel where they find someone sexually appealing, and often results in a desire for sexual contact with the person.

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Sexual_attraction


A lot of allosexuals (and plenty of asexuals) see sexual attraction as an attraction towards the act or having urges. So, being that it's common for people to hold off having sex until they trust the other person, developed a relationship, become married, or whatever other voluntary preference, they then think that this is demisexuality. But it's not, by definition. Absence of sexual attraction is no sexual lust or desire towards others. So, a demisexual would otherwise be asexual but a deeper emotional connection might make the exception. This likely requires discovery more than just somehow knowing. However, since it's in the middle and kinda varies as merely a more specific gray-sexual or gray-asexual identity, maybe there's flexibility? Just, it is pretty specific.

 

Sexual desire doesn't mean action but it does mean attraction. Confusing sexual attraction with voluntary withholding sexual acts/development is harmful towards understanding what asexuality is and how asexuals that have sex (and enjoy it) are still valid asexuals.

I'm not intending for this to be specific about your situation or how you should identify, but just on why a lot of people say it's common.

 

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I dont think its the default but I also dont think its that rare that I need to use a special label for it. Im happy to just say not ace, do experience sexual attraction. For one person, my wife, which took about a year to develop out of a romantic relationship that developed from a friendship. 

 

I know lots of people who want sex early in dating. I know others that think its weird to not take it slow. Me telling people I need to develop a deep relationship before sex can be a thing isnt something that they make me feel weird about. A lot think its old fashioned, others get it. I cant traditional date (dating people I barely know) because of it, since dating culture is very sexual.

 

But, meh. I see it as common enough to be understood - even if not shared by the majority. And dont see a need to put a different label on myself for it. I adore my wife and only want her sexually - but I do want her very much - leaves me pretty sexual, just very picky about who with. 

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16 minutes ago, PaganUnicorn said:

I think it can cause emotional closeness, as an expression of emotions. The latter is also true of course.

The former... implies you don't quite know how the other person feels before having sex with them? i find that unwise but it happens.

Knowing how someone feels and feeling something for someone are two VERY different things. If I have casual sex, I know there's consent, but I don't feel emotionally connected and I don't super care what they're feeling. 

 

Yes, the intimacy of sex can bond people, but only if they view it as intimate... I'd argue that you already have to have emotional connections to see it as intimate, as opposed to strictly sexual. 

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6 minutes ago, PaganUnicorn said:

Fair enough... when there's chemistry that intimacy is "there" even before sex happens. Maybe some people just dont realize it until sex happens or dont take them as seriously until after the sex happens and know for sure its there.

Oh, yeah, I forget about "chemistry." That's not something I experience... Always thought it was a lie... But yeah I acknowledge that's a thing people feel that has an emotional component. 

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8 hours ago, Celyn said:

The difference between that and demisexuality is:

1) Frequency - we don't form the bond readily, most demis will only have developed sexual attraction to one or two people ever

2) Length of time taken for the bond to develop. Seems to be about 6-12 months for demis, which is why dating is difficult as most allos will only wait a few weeks max

3) Until that happens we are functionally ace.

I think these are important points to emphasize. "That person is damn hot but I won't want to take my clothes off for the first month of dating them" is very different from "I have no desire to have sex with anyone right now, no matter how beautiful they are. The only person I've ever felt that way towards was my previous partner, and I didn't feel that way for a year." 

 

I will admit, I find it a little odd that some people with no experience in sexual relationships call themselves demisexual, because there is no evidence they are (yet). I acknowledge that we all have inklings of what we'd feel like in hypothetical situations, so if a functionally asexual person feels that in theory they could want sex with someone once a very close bond has been formed over time, I can see why they'd want to make that clear. But just as how there's a chance some asexual or umbrella identifying people will turn out to be sexual, there is a chance demisexual people who are yet to have that experience could turn out to be flat out ace. 

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bare_trees

Lots of interesting responses I came back to!  Thanks everyone for your insight. 😊

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My wife is allosexual, but will not sleep with somebody that she is not in love with. She tells me that she gets sexually attracted to other people all the time but will not do anything with them because she loves me. She also says to some extent this can be difficult. Not the actual having sex with them, I am pretty certain she won't do that but the indulging in the flirting, the thrill of feeling desired and so on, there are times for her where she just wants this kind of excitement, even if it is only for a short time

 

This what I am describing above has Never happened for me and frankly I have no idea how I would make this kind of thing happen for me. I am Demisexual and I am only attracted to my wife. 

 

Now, it might seem rather cruel that my wife has told me she does all this, but because of a multitude of difficulties we were having, during Therapy, she had to explain this because she thought that this was normal, that everybody experiences attraction in this way and that the indulging, but not actually taking part in physical contact etc, is something that all folk do, and she was certain I too must do all this

 

The arguments ensued, and I, not only protested my innocence, the sheer shock on my face when she was telling me how she perceives the world, it was unbelievable to me. How can a woman that professes to love me now tell me she gets sexually attracted to other people, regularly, and at the same time tell me this is normal? Then rabbit on about how she loves me so nothing is going to happen LOL

 

I know that right here I have made it sound like she is the bad one and I am the good one but this is definitely not the case. I don't get attracted to anybody and so it is easy peasy for me to remain faithful. My wife, although flirtatious, actually has to ensure she doesn't go dillying down the wrong path

 

For the sake of making my point I have emphasised the main points between how my wife experiences sexual attraction (ie all the time with many people) and how I do (only with her, definitely not with anybody else), and how we are both faithful, but with somewhat different interpretations of what we each mean by that. I have emphasised this point, but there is a lot more than all this going on in our relationship so I do have to ask you all not to see me as a goody two shoes and my wife as a bit of a rat, I swear to you all it is not like that, we are simply made very differently when it comes to all this attraction stuff

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Demisetfree

Speaking as someone who identifies as demisexual, my experience of it is that when I first meet a person I may find them attractive in that they are good looking, but it makes me want to get to know them more as a person and spend time with them, but I will have no desire for any physical contact with them. Then sometimes, after a long time and the building of a friendship there have been 1 or 2 people in 20 years who I have gradually come to be attracted to in a physical sense. Sadly this seems to take me about 18 months to 2 years, by which time I have well and truly been friend-zoned or else they have found committed relationships, in which case I refuse to act on my feelings. The one or two times I have been physically intimate with people it was fun, but it never really felt completely right, so in that sense it makes any rare physical attraction I do feel toward anyone typically fairly easy to ignore. While I have the rare physical craving for sex that my allosexual friends seem to experience on a regular basis (them several times a week compared to me once or twice a year) it is almost never directed at a particular person, so I never have any inclination to actually do anything about it. The end result is that I appear to be functionally/behaviourally asexual but identify as demi. 

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10 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think most sexual people do have something pretty similar to that experience. The attraction is transient and superficial, but fun to play with, and as you say, most people would never act on it beyond a little flirting. It's about equivalent to windowshopping.

 

It might be helpful to think about it like this - she has those impulses frequently, but she values and loves what you two have together so much that she'd never act on them beyond (I'm guessing) the odd remark or joke. 

Yes, and in our case jealousy levels are different too, I rarely get jealous, whereas my wife can be very jealous. Even though I know all about her being attracted and stuff somehow I do not get enormously affected by it. She knows I don't have a clue regarding flirting and such but can become easily jealous. I think it is because she knows what goes in her mind that she projects a lot of that stuff on to me. We have known that I am Demisexual for several years now but she still struggles to believe that I do not get attracted to other people. And sometimes I am still shocked when I am reminded that she does.......... I do tend to believe it is all quit innocent though. She says it is, and I (with no minds eye) can't really imagine it being that exiting anyway. We do laugh a lot about all this now!!! 

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I guess some of it is that many people have never considered attraction, the different kinds and how they feel and react. I'm demi-sexual, I can look at people and find them aesthetically attractive but that's an observation of how they look. I don't feel any sexual or romantic desire from that. I was always confused by the girls I was friends with who loved various celebrities and sure, some looked nice but that was it. For me it's like there is a block which is only very rarely not there when it comes to aesthetic attraction being more like sexual attraction and even then that is so fleeting without any emotional connection. 

 

What I understand is that for many people aesthetic attraction is also sexual attraction for them or they get the two mixed up. I know I used to because I operated on that I should be attracted to and desire somebody, that was what my peers were like but I never felt that so I thought if I tried to copy them, I would get it.

 

The other thing is that I know I can find women aesthetically attractive, but were I to voice that thought to many people the assumption would be that I must be bisexual. No, I don't have sexual or romantic attraction to women. Explaining that and getting people to understand different types of attraction and how I personally feel about them has been pretty interesting but a lot of people still reckon I just am a regular person choosing to put off sex until I trust them. 

 

Thing is past relationships the people I had sex with, I trusted. Back then I still didn't understand attraction for myself and thought that maybe if I had sex I would feel sexual attraction somehow, plus I did it out of curiosity more than anything. I only felt sexual attraction for one of them and that was marked by how I felt about the whole thing. Sex wasn't something I felt I had to do in order to not stick out as being weird or odd with him. I felt entirely different about that person. So all before then sex was just something I did because I figured it was just part of normal relationships and maybe by having sex it would trigger something. I know it sounds stupid but I had nobody to talk to about it as I was aware that people would struggle to understand and I hadn't quite figured out how to articulate my feelings or thoughts on it. 

 

The relationship after that though was what made me realise what was with me. I never really felt sexual attraction for those guys, I was just trying to figure it all out by doing what everybody else around me did as that was the expected norm. All because I had nobody to confide in or who wouldn't just say its because I must be weird, frigid or broken. Hell my own Dad reckoned I was lesbian because I had no interest in men as a teen and when I was a student. Folk often discount it as me not meeting the right person and in a way that is so true. I haven't met a person bar one, who I felt that bond or who has the patience to bear with me and enjoy a friendly, romantic relationship to see if I do develop a sexual attraction to them. It doesn't mean I cannot have sex with them, even some asexual people have sex, but it's not the same without that attraction. Knowing and understanding all of that now, I'm much happier with the romantic stuff but it still all gets misinterpreted. 

 

So yeah when people say functional asexual that's literally how I am. I still feel I have to pretend I fancy guys just to save going over the same ground with people all the time only to be told I'm just something other than denisexual when that is what I am. It can take so much energy to explain all of that because my past experiences and realising how I felt about them was a really difficult thing to face for me. I still sometimes question why I ever had sex and those feelings aren't great. 

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On 5/26/2019 at 3:12 AM, CBC said:

Lol I don't care if I get a warning for this.

 

Fuck. This. Shit. That's an insane statement. I know you clarified later on, but still.

You've said you're superior because you can give and recieve love. You might have "clarified" later but - fuck. this. shit. That was an insane and vile statement.

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In every post there is an ounce - or a kilo - of truth.

 

But hey, whatever floats our superior boats, eh?

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CelesteAdAstra

As I understand it, it's easier to separate demisexuality form asexuality when you don't actually look at who the person directly has sex with, but at the attraction in a broader sense. Imagine this: You see a very attractive, half-naked person on a magazine. Sex with them doesn't sound like a bad idea? Congrats, you're a sexual. Or maybe the attraction is not that strong, and you wouldn't jump straight to thinking about sex, but there's still a sexual component to the attraction - you're still a sexual then. Only if the attraction stays strictly aesthetic, without anything sexual even crossing your mind, then you're either demi or ace. While aces will obviously never feel sexually attracted to any person whatsoever, demis will only be aroused by an erotic picture of someone they're in love with. They are not aroused by the sight of naked bodies on magazines or in movies, except for that one certain person, who is possibly their partner.

Is this right, demis of AVEN?

 

As to why everyone thinks that demisexuality is so common, I agree with everyone who said that there's a mix-up for those who don't completely understand the concept of demisexuality. It's choice vs nature, and the people who mix it up think that demisexuality is about choices when it's actually about the nature of the demisexual person, who can be said to experience as little sexual attraction as any asexual until they really, really get to know and love someone.

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3 hours ago, CelesteAdAstra said:

It's choice vs nature, and the people who mix it up think that demisexuality is about choices when it's actually about the nature of the demisexual person, who can be said to experience as little sexual attraction as any asexual until they really, really get to know and love someone.

Further to this, it's not about trust or reluctance or willingness. A lot of sexual people feel like they need to develop trust before they're comfortable with opening up to others sexually. My understanding of demisexuality is that trust isn't necessarily in question, and it's not about being uneasy with proceeding with sex until criteria are met. It's just that there is no motivation to build up to a sexual relationship until the flip is switched. It's not "My attraction to you is outweighed by my reservations about being intimate with you at this point." It might be "My attraction to you has no sexual element because I'm just not feeling any desire to bond with another person in a sexual way, but that may change" if there's an element of romantic attraction. 

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I think it's a very hard line to draw. The thing with choice... It often doesn't feel like conscious choice. It's like the brain immediately shuts it down. Sure, some people really are weighing pros and cons in their heads, or saying "Mmm they're hot but casual sex will make me feel icky". But some people have a subconscious immediate reaction which just shuts down the sexual thoughts or motivation for connection, and that's still not demi. How to suss out the difference in practice, I'm not sure. 

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