Jump to content
Madelaine

Sad ordinary story..

Recommended Posts

Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 10:14 AM, Madelaine said:

So does it mean if she would have like "model body 90*60*90" it would  work well for you? 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Madelaine
9 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

I doubt it.  I cant put a photo of my wife here without her permission, but my wife is a tall, slim, good looking woman.  She is held by most 'normal' people to be highly attractive.  But I don't see it.  But for me, no real woman can compete with 'perfection'. 

 

Bodies are full of imperfections or things I dislike.  And the older I've got the more repulsive I've found the human body.  Asymmetry, spots, urine, aging, disease, smells, hair, poop, mucus, blood, limitations in locality and space, etc etc. 

 

I can still be caught off guard by attractive female bodies (most young slim women, tbh), I find their forms appealing, but I quickly recall they are nasty underneath or if I look closely and see all the problems.

 

And that's just the physical.  Maybe I could deal with that and still find a human woman sexually appealing.  But I dislike their mind, their personality, the ghost in the machine.   Humans aren't very appealing to me, their nastiness, stupidity, violence, meanness etc.  I pity them, am one of them, am amazed by how they overcome all that, but I cant bring myself anymore to think of romantically loving them.

 

Ad as for this having all kinds of subconscious roots, sure - I've been badly treated by most women my whole life.  It's not exactly hidden why I am the way I am, lol :) 

Oh i didnt know it, i thought it was only your wife who wasnt that gentle to you. But if most women were, then its all clear.. its sad, but if you are fine with your current condition its the biggest thing: personal harmony. 

 

That may sounds strange, but i understand you in a way of your humanity dislike. Its a bit long story why for several years a fully lost my libido (for sure i was thinkng i became frigid and it didnt make me feel any uncomforts)/ At that time i couldnt even watch sex romantic scenes in movies - everything seemed disgusting to me, especially kisses and liquid exchanges, i hated all romantic stuff. i also loved robots for rational state of "mind", and no stupid human things and complications.. i thought they are ideal, i was getting rid from all sences  - and my depression destroyed my first marrige.  But for now all of it had gone.. and probably it will come back if my situation wont change, or if i wont change my relation to my situation.

 

I still love robots btw :D

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual

.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 10:47 AM, Madelaine said:

but if you are fine with your current condition

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I know that feeling - realising you're just seen as just another thing, or at best, just another human - to your partner. It's absolutely horrible.

Maybe I’m understanding this differently than you meant, but that sounds more like aromance than asexuality.

 

My serious, long-term partners were never “just another human” to me.  My connection with them was much deeper than than that.  I adored them and wanted us to share everything that mattered.  They were the most important things in my life.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Madelaine
Posted (edited)

Dreamsexual its Great to hear there  is harmony in your life!:) and now i have hints why did you choose such a nickname! im going to read lovegasms topic now👑

Edited by Madelaine
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I don't think that would make much difference to sexuals, in practice. 

Do you feel that way in general (that this statement is not true:  positive attention > a lack of attention > negative attention) or is there something specific about sexual attraction that makes it stand out from other types of attraction/attention?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

Maybe I’m understanding this differently than you meant, but that sounds more like aromance than asexuality.

Yeah, I agree. In @Dreamsexual's particular comment, it seemed a relevant point.

50 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Do you feel that way in general (that this statement is not true:  positive attention > a lack of attention > negative attention) or is there something specific about sexual attraction that makes it stand out from other types of attraction/attention?

I don't like reducing human relationships to logical propositions. They just don't work like that in my experience.

 

What I meant was this: to me (and I think most people who don't really find the whole split attraction model resonates with them), It's more that a monogamous relationship means the two people in it mean something uniquely special to each other. That includes actively desiring each other, and expecting both partners to act on it. From what @Dreamsexual was saying, and what I've come to understand was happening in my marriage, the asexual partners in both cases didn't see their partners as special, but one of many acceptable examples of the genre of people they prefer to have sex with, and their sexual partners happen to be willing and to hand. Understanding that is how your partner sees you is horrible because you'd been assuming you were specifically sexually desirable.

 

To use my usual conversation analogy: it's as though your partner is saying 'yep, I like talking to you but our conversation isn't anything unique. It's only conversation and has nothing to do with the rest of the relationship, after all.'

 

It's telling your partner they mean nothing special to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 12:41 PM, Telecaster68 said:

To use my usual conversation analogy: it's as though your partner is saying 'yep, I like talking to you but our conversation isn't anything unique. It's only conversation and has nothing to do with the rest of the relationship, after all.'

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

Not anything special sexually or romantically, but my wife is very special to me platonically.

But aren't all your friends special to you platonically, in their different ways?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 12:48 PM, Telecaster68 said:

But aren't all your friends special to you platonically, in their different ways?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
3 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

Don't have any. 

But that would like having multiple sexual/ romantic partners and finding them special sexually in their own way.  That's a monogamy/ polyamory issue, not a sexual/asexual issue afaik.

It would.

 

But in your case, you were in a monogamous relationship, in which your wife would have exactly the same relationship to you as your friends: special in her own specific way. Why would you expect her to feel she was anything more than a friend, in that case? 

 

I'm pursuing this because it's the reason we don't want to hear the 'platonic' word, and it's the process that leads to the 'a relationship without sex is just a friendship' position.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 12:59 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Why would you expect her to feel she was anything more than a friend, in that case? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's telling your partner they mean nothing special to you.

The impression I get is that you felt like you meant nothing special to your partner period; like you could basically have been interchanged with most anyone similarly qualified and she would not have cared.

 

I’m curious whether that stemmed solely from the sexual mismatch, or from many sources (one of which was the lack of sexual desire).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
22 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

Not anything special sexually or romantically, but my wife is very special to me platonically.

My situations have been different in that my partners have been very special to me romantically.  Sexual desire just isn’t the way I express that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Why would you expect her to feel she was anything more than a friend, in that case? 

Not specific to dreamsexual’s situation, but when you (personally) are romantically in love with someone, how do you experience it?  What specifically distinguishes it, emotionally, for you from a FWB?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

From many sources, but the sexual mismatch was the most stark, and figuring that out led to figuring out all the rest. 

 

Like @Dreamsexual though, she would've said there was something exclusive and romantic to our relationship, but when I asked for something specific, there was a long silence followed by 'well if you had to move for work, I'd come with you'. She can characterise it how she wants, but if that's the only difference between me and her friends, it's not really a whole different register of relationship.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
3 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

Up to that point my interactions with women largely involved being shouted at, laughed at, spat upon, bullied, criticised etc - I guess it was easy for me mistake any sort of affection for something akin to sexual/ romantic desire.

From what my most recent ex said in relationship therapy, this was the mistake he made as well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Not specific to dreamsexual’s situation, but when you (personally) are romantically in love with someone, how do you experience it?  What specifically distinguishes it, emotionally, for you from a FWB?

I've only had one FWB and I imagine they're all different, but for me, the key difference is that when we're together, we're together, and when we're not, we're just getting on with our own lives. We might text a bit, but it's light chitchat, and short of a dire emergency, I feel no particular involvement in whatever's going on with her beyond the same level I would with a friend. I have a few friends I pretty much only see when we go to gigs, or to play sport with, and in this case, it's 'friend who I have sex with', and by extension, it makes no sense to me to get jealous of her having sex with anyone else, just like it would make no sense to get jealous of two friends going to a gig together without me. 

 

But a romantic involvement is about being a partnership: emotionally, practically, sexually. It's hard to be completely happy if the other person isn't. I'll do stuff purely because they want me to (within limits). Their wellbeing is inextricably linked to mine. All that stuff is unique to the relationship I have with that person, and they come first, before friends. Sex is part of that exclusivity and mutual well being, in fact it's pretty much a physical embodiment of it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

I've only had one FWB and I imagine they're all different, but for me, the key difference is that when we're together, we're together, and when we're not, we're just getting on with our own lives. We might text a bit, but it's light chitchat, and short of a dire emergency, I feel no particular involvement in whatever's going on with her beyond the same level I would with a friend. I have a few friends I pretty much only see when we go to gigs, or to play sport with, and in this case, it's 'friend who I have sex with', and by extension, it makes no sense to me to get jealous of her having sex with anyone else, just like it would make no sense to get jealous of two friends going to a gig together without me. 

 

But a romantic involvement is about being a partnership: emotionally, practically, sexually. It's hard to be completely happy if the other person isn't. I'll do stuff purely because they want me to (within limits). Their wellbeing is inextricably linked to mine. All that stuff is unique to the relationship I have with that person, and they come first, before friends. Sex is part of that exclusivity and mutual well being, in fact it's pretty much a physical embodiment of it. 

Okay, with the exception of sex being a key part of how I communicate (both give and receive) evidence of it, this is exactly the distinction between a friend and a romantic partner for me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 1:26 PM, Telecaster68 said:

But a romantic involvement is about being a partnership: emotionally, practically, sexually. It's hard to be completely happy if the other person isn't. I'll do stuff purely because they want me to (within limits). Their wellbeing is inextricably linked to mine. All that stuff is unique to the relationship I have with that person, and they come first, before friends. Sex is part of that exclusivity and mutual well being, in fact it's pretty much a physical embodiment of it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
20 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

from the outside no one could ever tell, my behaviour was at least an average husband (though she might say otherwise, she often told me I wasn't touching her enough or affectionate enough, though I tried).

... well she could tell, from your actions. There were probably things other husbands were doing that you didn't notice and she did - my wife was fantastic at running 'scripted' behaviours that she thought she'd got down perfectly from copying others, or films, or books, but were actually a bit off, or she applied inappropriately. It took me a while to figure this out, and why I intuited something odd was going on. And there's stuff that goes on between couples when nobody else is watching, so you'd have nobody to copy from, and it's impossible to explain and describe every single nuance or potential response to every single potential situation. It's just down to two people in a room, being themselves, and how they behave when it's just them, is very revealing.

 

21 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

She's interested in discussing what she thinks is her 'hyper-romanticism' with someone on the internet, though. 

If she wants to get an AVEN account and message me rather than posting, I'd be fine with that. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:00 PM, Telecaster68 said:

well she could tell, from your actions

 

On 23 May 2019 at 2:00 PM, Telecaster68 said:

It took me a while to figure this out, and why I intuited something odd was going on.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
32 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Okay, with the exception of sex being a key part of how I communicate (both give and receive) evidence of it, this is exactly the distinction between a friend and a romantic partner for me.

Yeah, I'm increasingly inclined to see my wife as aromantic as well, particularly as when I explained things in a very similar way to her, I could see it just didn't compute. The 'friends' bit was fine; the 'we're in it together' stuff didn't. Confusingly for me, she knew she had to say 'we're in it together' but she didn't actually behave as though we were, more like friends, and not just in sexual terms. Financially, for example, she never really defaulted to the idea that our finances were joint, rather than separate. We operated like housemates, not a couple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

I don't think it was mostly actions, otherwise it would have been more obvious

Subtle actions, like the precise moment and angle of your arm as you reached out to her. Stuff you probably don't even realise you're doing, and sexual partners take a while to catch onto.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:05 PM, Telecaster68 said:

the 'we're in it together' stuff didn't

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
Just now, Dreamsexual said:

Not sure that's an aromantic thing.  I've been 'in it' with my wife to the point of basically destroying my mind and body for her.  And I'm pretty sure I'm aromantic (for humans).

Do you think the destruction happened because you were forcing yourself to be 'in it' when you weren't?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:10 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Do you think the destruction happened because you were forcing yourself to be 'in it' when you weren't?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryn2
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yeah, I'm increasingly inclined to see my wife as aromantic as well, particularly as when I explained things in a very similar way to her, I could see it just didn't compute. The 'friends' bit was fine; the 'we're in it together' stuff didn't. Confusingly for me, she knew she had to say 'we're in it together' but she didn't actually behave as though we were, more like friends, and not just in sexual terms. Financially, for example, she never really defaulted to the idea that our finances were joint, rather than separate. We operated like housemates, not a couple.

Makes sense.  This was totally not the case for me, not just in my immediate past relationship but in previous serious ones.

 

I know we’ve talked about this before but I wasn’t able to express the difference between a romantic partner and a friend in a way that made sense for you.

 

I wonder if my most recent ex (and maybe your ex, for that matter) is an aromantic sexual (who had nothing to communicate sexually, essentially) or if he just wasn’t in love with me, specifically, but didn’t recognize that.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
15 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

But she could sense something missing from behind my eyes.  I didn't look at her right, if you know what I mean.

Yep, that's what I meant by the micro-actions thing.

 

I've thought about it as kind of two levels of emotions: the transient, spontaneous, intuitive sort, like laughing at a joke, hugging a friend, reaching out for a lover, that don't work on any rational, conscious level and are very hard to control one way or another; and the deeper seated kind that make you go out to work to support your family, have the difficult conversation, change a nappy - things that have a practical application, not just expressing your emotion. Sounds like you were fine with the latter but couldn't really figure out the former when it came to your wife.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...