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Madelaine

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 12:59 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Why would you expect her to feel she was anything more than a friend, in that case? 

 

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22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's telling your partner they mean nothing special to you.

The impression I get is that you felt like you meant nothing special to your partner period; like you could basically have been interchanged with most anyone similarly qualified and she would not have cared.

 

I’m curious whether that stemmed solely from the sexual mismatch, or from many sources (one of which was the lack of sexual desire).

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22 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

Not anything special sexually or romantically, but my wife is very special to me platonically.

My situations have been different in that my partners have been very special to me romantically.  Sexual desire just isn’t the way I express that.

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11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Why would you expect her to feel she was anything more than a friend, in that case? 

Not specific to dreamsexual’s situation, but when you (personally) are romantically in love with someone, how do you experience it?  What specifically distinguishes it, emotionally, for you from a FWB?

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3 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

Up to that point my interactions with women largely involved being shouted at, laughed at, spat upon, bullied, criticised etc - I guess it was easy for me mistake any sort of affection for something akin to sexual/ romantic desire.

From what my most recent ex said in relationship therapy, this was the mistake he made as well.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

I've only had one FWB and I imagine they're all different, but for me, the key difference is that when we're together, we're together, and when we're not, we're just getting on with our own lives. We might text a bit, but it's light chitchat, and short of a dire emergency, I feel no particular involvement in whatever's going on with her beyond the same level I would with a friend. I have a few friends I pretty much only see when we go to gigs, or to play sport with, and in this case, it's 'friend who I have sex with', and by extension, it makes no sense to me to get jealous of her having sex with anyone else, just like it would make no sense to get jealous of two friends going to a gig together without me. 

 

But a romantic involvement is about being a partnership: emotionally, practically, sexually. It's hard to be completely happy if the other person isn't. I'll do stuff purely because they want me to (within limits). Their wellbeing is inextricably linked to mine. All that stuff is unique to the relationship I have with that person, and they come first, before friends. Sex is part of that exclusivity and mutual well being, in fact it's pretty much a physical embodiment of it. 

Okay, with the exception of sex being a key part of how I communicate (both give and receive) evidence of it, this is exactly the distinction between a friend and a romantic partner for me.

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 1:26 PM, Telecaster68 said:

But a romantic involvement is about being a partnership: emotionally, practically, sexually. It's hard to be completely happy if the other person isn't. I'll do stuff purely because they want me to (within limits). Their wellbeing is inextricably linked to mine. All that stuff is unique to the relationship I have with that person, and they come first, before friends. Sex is part of that exclusivity and mutual well being, in fact it's pretty much a physical embodiment of it.

 

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:00 PM, Telecaster68 said:

well she could tell, from your actions

 

On 23 May 2019 at 2:00 PM, Telecaster68 said:

It took me a while to figure this out, and why I intuited something odd was going on.

 

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:05 PM, Telecaster68 said:

the 'we're in it together' stuff didn't

 

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:10 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Do you think the destruction happened because you were forcing yourself to be 'in it' when you weren't?

 

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yeah, I'm increasingly inclined to see my wife as aromantic as well, particularly as when I explained things in a very similar way to her, I could see it just didn't compute. The 'friends' bit was fine; the 'we're in it together' stuff didn't. Confusingly for me, she knew she had to say 'we're in it together' but she didn't actually behave as though we were, more like friends, and not just in sexual terms. Financially, for example, she never really defaulted to the idea that our finances were joint, rather than separate. We operated like housemates, not a couple.

Makes sense.  This was totally not the case for me, not just in my immediate past relationship but in previous serious ones.

 

I know we’ve talked about this before but I wasn’t able to express the difference between a romantic partner and a friend in a way that made sense for you.

 

I wonder if my most recent ex (and maybe your ex, for that matter) is an aromantic sexual (who had nothing to communicate sexually, essentially) or if he just wasn’t in love with me, specifically, but didn’t recognize that.

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2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's possible. Comes to roughly the same thing, whichever it is.

Agreed.  It came to getting dumped.

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:34 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Yep, that's what I meant by the micro-actions thing.

 

I've thought about it as kind of two levels of emotions: the transient, spontaneous, intuitive sort, like laughing at a joke, hugging a friend, reaching out for a lover, that don't work on any rational, conscious level and are very hard to control one way or another; and the deeper seated kind that make you go out to work to support your family, have the difficult conversation, change a nappy - things that have a practical application, not just expressing your emotion. Sounds like you were fine with the latter but couldn't really figure out the former when it came to your wife.

 

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Just now, Dreamsexual said:

Probably.  I thought I was doing all the former too.  And I was certainly doing some of it ... but not enough, or not with the right amount of 'feels' behind it.

It’s also possible her expectations were unreasonable (or a combination of the two).

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:39 PM, ryn2 said:

It’s also possible her expectations were unreasonable (or a combination of the two).

 

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 2:54 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Now I'm curious.

 

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1 minute ago, Dreamsexual said:

She explains it as being due to having no affection from her family, esp her dad, as a child. 

If deep down she doesn’t (or didn't) believe she is lovable, you’re right... no one else would ever be able to do enough to prove her wrong.

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 3:00 PM, ryn2 said:

If deep down she doesn’t (or didn't) believe she is lovable, you’re right... no one else would ever be able to do enough to prove her wrong.

 

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 3:01 PM, Telecaster68 said:

My best guess is that the needy one initially finds the non-needy one incredibly emotionally uncomplicated, and only later realises the lack of complication goes with a kind of lack of emotion, from our needy perspective

 

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1 hour ago, Dreamsexual said:

And the same for me.  Two self-loathing people seeking perfection, and instead ending up with each other.  Life is funny.

 

the more i read the more questions i have.. like the main is: how the idea of merrigae had come in your life?! :) you sound like totally lonely wolf who dont need anyone

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 4:56 PM, Madelaine said:

 

the more i read the more questions i have.. like the main is: how the idea of merrigae had come in your life?! :) you sound like totally lonely wolf who dont need anyone

 

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1 minute ago, Dreamsexual said:

I didn't realise she needed something I didn't have, and I didn't realise I was missing something.

So you didnt have  robo-digi-inorganic interest before merrige?

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

See previous post, and you're right, in a direct way. But speaking from the needy side of this equation, the best case version of this involves the needy person finding sufficient support from their partner to embolden them to sort their own shit out themselves. 

Agreed, but - especially if the non-needy partner largely “came that way” without having to actively and consciously develop it - the other partner may lack the skills to identify the issue and/or help make a safe place to address it.

 

E.g., I had a partner many years ago who was endlessly and genuinely puzzled as to why I cared so much what other people thought (about me).  He hadn’t ever had to consciously work on positive self-image, bolstering self-esteem, etc.  He was just naturally (and/or with the help of his parents before he was old enough to recognize it) comfortable with himself.  After several years of therapy I now totally get where he was coming from... but without that an endless string of “well, just don’t let it bother you!” and “but why do you care?” was completely unhelpful.

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 5:01 PM, Madelaine said:

So you didnt have  robo-digi-inorganic interest before merrige?

 

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Dreamsexual

.

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2 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

How are you doing Madelaine?

 

Is any of this helping you in any way?  

 

It it seems like this thread has become an awful lot of tele, ryn and myself - not so much you. I want you to get what it is you need for you.

Oh thank for asking, i totally ok that thread had gone from my theme - i love to learn things about other people.

 

I think im fine, trying to settle things right - i read your and other stories and im forgeting about mine - so yes of course its helping :) 

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Dreamsexual
On 23 May 2019 at 7:38 PM, Madelaine said:

think im fine, trying to settle things right - i read your and other stories and im forgeting about mine - so yes of course its helpi

I

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5 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

I'm glad it is. :). Always feel free to ask questions, ask people to get back on track, start new threads.  Get what you need from your time here on AVEN.

Aven is great place, i never felt that comfortable and calm with sharing my thoughts in any other community real or virtual. 

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