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The Fate of a Male Hetero Asexual in the USA


Georgetown

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Georgetown

I’ve identified as an asexual for over a decade since high school now approaching my 30s. I’ve tried all sorts of online dating apps, trying to date supposedly asexual friends of friends, and even attended some real-life asexual meet-up groups in major cities. As an asexual man looking for some kind of cuddling-filled sex-minimal or sexless relationship with a woman, I have simply been unable to find it in any sustainable fashion, no more than little hints or glimpses. The concept of a hetero male who doesn’t like sex is just so anathema to American dating culture it seems. Heterosexual women don’t really want to date asexual men in mixed relationships it seems, and hetero asexual women are often perfectly fine to date heterosexual men, who seem to always outdo asexual men in the peacock pageant with all the motivation that comes from their desire for sex. This has been my continual experience, and I’d be super curious if there are exceptions, though my guess is most of those are in Europe and Australia / New Zealand. If someone is actually being a badass male asexual rocking awesome non-sexual romantic relationships with women in the Western Hemisphere, that’s wonderful, and I’d love to be proven wrong and do what they’re doing (or move to their neighborhood).

 

I’ve found that my best use of time and energy is simply to work hard and focus on my career so that I can make money to afford the very expensive services of professional cuddlers, who offer everything I’d otherwise want out of a hetero asexual relationship at a price, everything in terms of platonic physicality and also intellectual and emotional connections as well. Professional cuddlers who believe in their jobs and have passion for helping others are often just as authentic and pleasant and compassionate as any asexual you could theoretically “date for free”. My advice to all young hetero male asexuals is that they focus on their careers and on making as much money as possible to afford professional cuddlers when they’re older.

 

What do folks think of this? I really would love to be wrong and for there to be a real shot in my nation or a nearby one at “free hetero asexual dating”. Does this make sense?

 

Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge everyone’s unique experiences and intersections and struggles, etcetera, etcetera. I just want to point out this perspective, but I don’t intend to invalidate anyone else, etcetera, etcetera. Women have it worse in general compared to men with discrimination and issues and safety and other struggles, yes, yes, etcetera. In fact it’s the patriarchy that creates this undesirable situation, yes, yes, etcetera. I mean no one harm or offense. I just want to share this idea and see people’s thoughts if this makes sense with their experiences and mean no insult.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Georgetown said:

afford the very expensive services of professional cuddlers, who offer everything I’d otherwise want out of a hetero asexual relationship at a price, everything in terms of platonic physicality and also intellectual and emotional connections as well.

If you find that "professional cuddlers" give you all that, and you're advising young men to make money so they can rent those cuddlers also, why do you want to be wrong about the lack of hetero-asexual women wanting to date you?  

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Dreamsexual
On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 7:37 AM, Georgetown said:

professional cuddlers

.

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Georgetown
4 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

Is that a euphemism, or is that an actual thing?

 

It wouldn't work for someone like me, the idea of a human woman cuddling me isn't pleasant, but I'm waiting/ saving for sex robots for basically the same thing (plus sex, but I'm not full ace).

This is 100% a real thing. It’s a service in the USA you can find on a number of easily googled sites. It costs 80 dollars an hour up to possibly 200 dollars an hour.

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wirewalker

I'm an ace woman in a relationship with an ace man, so it does happen. Unfortunately, I don't have much to suggest on how to make it happen. We were lucky enough to just meet each other on accident and end up being very compatible. But we exist, if that helps. I wish you luck in finding a relationship that is to your liking.

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Georgetown
1 minute ago, wirewalker said:

I'm an ace woman in a relationship with an ace man, so it does happen. Unfortunately, I don't have much to suggest on how to make it happen. We were lucky enough to just meet each other on accident and end up being very compatible. But we exist, if that helps. I wish you luck in finding a relationship that is to your liking.

What country, however? In America? I can totally believe it’s possible elsewhere. That’s amazing if in America 🙂.

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Dreamsexual
On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:04 AM, Georgetown said:

That’s amazing if in America

.

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wirewalker
Just now, Georgetown said:

What country, however? In America? I can totally believe it’s possible elsewhere. That’s amazing if in America 🙂.

Yep, in America. :)

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Georgetown
13 minutes ago, Sally said:

If you find that "professional cuddlers" give you all that, and you're advising young men to make money so they can rent those cuddlers also, why do you want to be wrong about the lack of hetero-asexual women wanting to date you?  

They give me all I want for a small blip of time after a big outlay of money. It’s the best I can manage, but it’s not really ideal.

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Dreamsexual
On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:06 AM, Georgetown said:

They give me all I want for a small blip of time after a big outlay of money. It’s the best I can manage, but it’s not really ideal.

.

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Georgetown
Just now, Dreamsexual said:

And dolls, cushions, bots, won't cut it for you?  It has to be organic? :(  Bummer.

It has to be a real human soul, warmth and emotion. That’s the best part.

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Dreamsexual
On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:09 AM, Georgetown said:

That’s the best part.

.

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Georgetown
7 minutes ago, wirewalker said:

Yep, in America. :)

If I had to guess, maybe it can happen by San Francisco, CA or Boston, MA.

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Dreamsexual
On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:13 AM, CBC said:

no offence to anyone who gets what they need from that sort of thing

.

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wirewalker
4 minutes ago, Georgetown said:

If I had to guess, maybe it can happen by San Francisco, CA or Boston, MA.

I think the US is more diverse than you may think. There are people of many kinds all over the country. :)

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everywhere and nowhere
1 hour ago, Georgetown said:

Heterosexual women don’t really want to date asexual men in mixed relationships it seems, and hetero asexual women are often perfectly fine to date heterosexual men, who seem to always outdo asexual men in the peacock pageant with all the motivation that comes from their desire for sex.

I just don't understand it. I'm personally only emotionally interested in the same sex, but as a strongly sex-averse person, I just could never be in a relationship where I would be expected to have sex - and bouts of empathy make me distressed when thinking about how most asexual women seem to have sex in mixed relationships. I don't necessary think that these women avoid heteroromantic asexual men - it's rather that most asexuals are resigned, thinking that a mixed relationship or loneliness (if they couldn't handle sex) are the only options.

(OK, so maybe I actually do understand it - I understand the psychological mechanisms guiding such a tendency - but I don't think of it as a good solution. It equals consistently telling asexuals that they can't expect anything better.)

However, if I'm right that most asexual women in relationships with non-asexual men do have sex, I absolutely do think of it as gender inequality, as another sign of women not being taught to say no, but instead being, maybe "subliminally", taught to ignore their own discomfort.

A very insightful text on such issues: The female price of male pleasure. While it rather talks about sexual discomfort such as painful sex, the conclusions can be extended to sex aversion. Some asexuals, unlike me, are sex-indifferent and I don't claim to know better what they should do. But women, members of minorities, members of all socially disadvantaged groups (which also includes asexual men) are generally taught to care about other people's needs more than they care about their own, to expect little, to feel that they deserve less.

Quote

Once you've absorbed how horrifying this is, you might reasonably conclude that our "reckoning" over sexual assault and harassment has suffered because men and women have entirely different rating scales. An 8 on a man's Bad Sex scale is like a 1 on a woman's. This tendency for men and women to use the same term — bad sex — to describe experiences an objective observer would characterize as vastly different is the flip side of a known psychological phenomenon called "relative deprivation," by which disenfranchised groups, having been trained to expect little, tend paradoxically to report the same levels of satisfaction as their better-treated, more privileged peers.

[from the text linked above]

 

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nineGardens

 

 

1 hour ago, Georgetown said:

Heterosexual women don’t really want to date asexual men in mixed relationships it seems, and hetero asexual women are often perfectly fine to date heterosexual men, who seem to always outdo asexual men in the peacock pageant with all the motivation that comes from their desire for sex. 

So... possibly off base, I assume not what you intened but the whole peacock pageant mention feels... it comes across as being really close to "Woman prefer confident suave guys over guys like me, therefore their desires are incorrect", if that make sense. As sort of resenting the game because it doesn't work for you.

But people are allowed to want anything they want. They are even allowed to want guys who you think of as show offs and peacocks.

 

Anyway...  I can't say I have any advice, and I can't say I've figured it out yet but....

I suspect your frustration with that half of things is more likely to cause problems trying to get a relationship Started, and is perhaps less relevant to holding on to one long term (which seems more to be your focus).

 

I don't have any solutions, but I think two things that asexuals often underestimate as:

 

A) The extent to which we push out "Not interested" vibes. If you aren't interested in sex, people DO pick up on this, and because relationships and sex are so intertwined in our society, allosexual people take this to mean "not interested in relationship". This isn't them ignoring you, or rejecting you or whatever, this is them doing their best to interpret the signals you are putting out. The fact that this manner of interpretation works for 99% of the population means its hard to convince them otherwise. Even if you can convince someone in their brain that your wiring is different, the many tiny "non-sexual" signals they get on a day to day basis still effect how they interpret a relationship on an emotional level.  This has nothing to do with showing off, or motivation, and everything to do with communication difficulties.

 

B) the extent to which we miss (or misinterpret) people showing interest in us.

Its easy enough for someone who is Allosexual to do something which to THEM is a clear indicate of interest, of wanting interaction, of wanting cuddles, and for us (or me at any rate), to just completely miss this. Which... maybe is fine, but if you want cuddles, or closeness, and then inadvertantly ignore/turn down invitations to such, you're going to run into problems.
 

 

I do think these things are soluable.

They just require lots of communication, and lots of empathy, and an awareness that Different people value different parts of a relationship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel_theory_of_love ) .

 

 

 

The other thing that I run into (not sure about you, or anyone else), is this thing that I don't want closeness until I know someone Really really well.

BUT, by the time I know someone that well,  that person has happily filed me away under "Safe boy who will never make a move on me" (Yes, technically "friend zone". I say this with no resentment, just trying to be descriptive).  Any action taken that doesn't fit the "Safe boy w.w.n.m.a.m.o.n." is going to feel like a betrayal, and a threat, and (quiet reasonable), does not get a positive response.

Damn.

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Strawberry ice cream

@Georgetown you are dream man!😊

I'm sorry you can't find compatible woman. It's absolutly ok what you do in your situation. I'm just very happy that man like you exist and wish you all the best. 

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You might try a related question on the 'older asexuals' sub-group.  I don't know because my drive has always been super-low, but does the sex drive of allos tend to drop as they get older? If so, maybe one's possibilities increase in finding someone who in her late 30s and 40s just isn't that interested in sex any more?

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It's generally a hard thing to shop for, regardless of the location, because we have such a big quality we're shopping for that's 1) rare and unusual, and 2) emotionally difficult to publicly advertise, which vastly reduces our ability to randomly find a match in the general populace.

I tend to fill my need for physical closeness with a few good friends, but that always tends to suffer when those friends find their own 'someone special' to redirect their time to.

Forums like this are great for letting people know they're not alone, but I haven't seen one that's very effective at matching people together. It might be harder because we all spend so much time pulling back from people (to avoid misunderstandings with allosexuals, etc) that we're at a loss when we need to put effort into reaching out to people instead.  :)  The classic introvert's dilemma!

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2 hours ago, wyrdwyrm said:

Forums like this are great for letting people know they're not alone, but I haven't seen one that's very effective at matching people together. It might be harder because we all spend so much time pulling back from people (to avoid misunderstandings with allosexuals, etc) that we're at a loss when we need to put effort into reaching out to people instead.  :)  The classic introvert's dilemma!

I've often thought this!!!!!!!!!! 

 

Sex is an easy, quick way of connecting with someone. And it's pleasurable. It's a jump start to get things going and see if they can work out. After all, every relationship (of any stripe) has to start with having something in common: why not enjoying boning?? But on many forums, as you said, people often discuss their difficulties in relating to others, and how they wish there were more people like them, how they'll never find anyone and it's a bit like: how odd that a bunch of people who share the same interest and loneliness don't make the first move and actually engage. You have to make an effort to get know others and invest time without it necessarily paying off. I think sometimes people expect it to just come to them. 

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

It's not what they're  for though. If you want to get to know someone better, you have to take the initiative yourself and PM them. It's really not too onerous.

Funnily enough I just edited my post above to say much the same. I don't disagree. 

 

It's not a matchmaking forum but by its very nature it brings people together who presumably have similar experiences. Although I guess given 60-70% of the discussions on here are arguing over definitions I suppose that's not a claim that can be made confidently.

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1 hour ago, CBC said:

Fuck, my late 30s is just a few years away. If I'm suddenly not interested in sex, someone check my pulse. Definitely some overestimating there, @robnrdbrd. And if you're speaking about women specifically, some misconceptions about female sexuality.

 

Like I said, I don't know from experience!  :)    ... I could be influenced more by TV/movies and people I know (men and women... joking?) in the 40+ demographic that they don't don't get any, can't be bothered, or are too tired, which at the very least seems much different than what seems to happen with people in their 20s.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think you're overestimating how quickly people lose interest in sex. 50-60s, maybe. In some cases.

Agreed.  The people around me (I’m in the 50’s-60’s age range) seem to have less sex on average than do younger people, and they are typically less interested than people in/just post- puberty, but they still look at sex from a very sexual mindset.  E.g., they:

* often would be having more sex if they were still physically up to it

* miss the days when they were having more sex and consider the change a loss rather than an asset

* make it clear that the things which once tended to lead to sex still lead to *thinking* (fondly) about sex, even if no sex happens anymore

 

I.e., it (a mixed relationship) is still an awkward pairing even if less actual sex happens.

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anisotrophic

@Georgetown you asked what folks think of it, and I think it's coming off as self-pitying and slightly misogynistic.

 

1) I'm American and identified as purely female until recently and sexual and my partner now ID's as ace -- also recent and which has not been fun, but -- I love him and I suspect I would've ended up with him even if we'd known. We met online and started with LDR. So there is that. LDRs.

2) Blaming the peacock pageant? This sure sounds a "beta male blames alpha males" thing. What I think is that you're sounding like the ace version of a "nice guy" who wants to put "nice tokens" into a woman until sex comes out -- but you want cuddles instead. Almost nobody is rocking relationships -- men and women -- and women are not achievements to win in your life, they're people, we're all just people.

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2 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

@Georgetown you asked what folks think of it, and I think it's coming off as self-pitying and slightly misogynistic.

 

2) Blaming the peacock pageant? This sure sounds a "beta male blames alpha males" thing. What I think is that you're sounding like the ace version of a "nice guy" who wants to put "nice tokens" into a woman until sex comes out -- but you want cuddles instead. Almost nobody is rocking relationships -- men and women -- and women are not achievements to win in your life, they're people, we're all just people.

^^^  This.  

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Anthracite_Impreza

My mother and step-father are in their mid fifties and still do the deed. I know this because I was letting Piggie wander round upstairs and found... sexual items... on my mother's side of the bed. Not a mistake I made twice :x

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Georgetown
4 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

@Georgetown you asked what folks think of it, and I think it's coming off as self-pitying and slightly misogynistic.

 

1) I'm American and identified as purely female until recently and sexual and my partner now ID's as ace -- also recent and which has not been fun, but -- I love him and I suspect I would've ended up with him even if we'd known. We met online and started with LDR. So there is that. LDRs.

2) Blaming the peacock pageant? This sure sounds a "beta male blames alpha males" thing. What I think is that you're sounding like the ace version of a "nice guy" who wants to put "nice tokens" into a woman until sex comes out -- but you want cuddles instead. Almost nobody is rocking relationships -- men and women -- and women are not achievements to win in your life, they're people, we're all just people.

I am entitled to nothing at all from anyone. No one owes me or anyone else anything in the relationship space. I accept that I must pay handsomely for any kind of sustained human affection.

 

You guys have won. I surrender. You have succeeded in convincing me of the shame and futility of my preferences. All is good now. I am against all misogyny and have removed myself from the dating pool.

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anisotrophic
49 minutes ago, Georgetown said:

You guys have won. I surrender. You have succeeded in convincing me of the shame and futility of my preferences. All is good now. I am against all misogyny and have removed myself from the dating pool.

Hey, chill.... I hope it was fair to suggest you be a bit more self-skeptical here. I didn't mean to provoke a dogpile. And I mean, look, here's another point -- there ain't nothing like the misogyny of gay men. Which is to say, the act of dating women has little to do with it.

I said you sounded like it, but that doesn't mean you are it. Or that you will be it in the future -- that's up to you, right?

I know I can dig myself pretty deep into feeling shitty (to whit -- when's the last time anyone was sexually attracted to me, the way I am to them? 15 years ago? was it ever real? will I ever experience it in the future, now that I'm old and messed up? ugh.) ... and sometimes I need a kick to remind me not to get too wrapped up in it. 😛 Other people have struggles too, often worse than mine.

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Georgetown
16 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

Hey, chill.... I hope it was fair to suggest you be a bit more self-skeptical here. I didn't mean to provoke a dogpile. And I mean, look, here's another point -- there ain't nothing like the misogyny of gay men. Which is to say, the act of dating women has little to do with it.

I said you sounded like it, but that doesn't mean you are it. Or that you will be it in the future -- that's up to you, right?

I know I can dig myself pretty deep into feeling shitty (to whit -- when's the last time anyone was sexually attracted to me, the way I am to them? 15 years ago? was it ever real? will I ever experience it in the future, now that I'm old and messed up? ugh.) ... and sometimes I need a kick to remind me not to get too wrapped up in it. 😛 Other people have struggles too, often worse than mine.

All sexism is a nightmare. I want us all to be people to each other. I hate that our culture forces it upon us, to be pawns in awful games. I’d rather be alone and unhappy than contribute to it, if that’s what’s needed.

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