sarahwatson Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 On 5/19/2019 at 3:44 AM, Sally said: If you want to have sex with anyone (doesn't matter who it is), you're not asexual. Don't get hung up on the "attractive" business; it just confuses people. Asexuality is when you don't want to have sex -- with any other human being. I honestly think your definition of asexuality is wrong. Sexual orientations are about sexual attraction to people. I personally have never felt a sexual or romantic attraction to a single person, but i still crave sex because it feels good. Just because i like the feeling of sex or she wants to have sex, doesn't automatically erase the fact that we do not experience sexual attraction. (I honestly found this kind of hurtful ) Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Quote Sexual orientations are about sexual attraction to people. What about "wanting sex with people" (and by this I mean active intrinsic desire for sex, not just wanting to satisfy a curiosity) doesn't imply sexual attraction to you? What do you think sexual attraction even means? I seriously don't get how people keep trying to split these apart. It's no wonder some people think that asexuality could be even greater than 1% of the population, when apparently "people who want sex" are still (inexplicably) capable of falling in the definition. Link to post Share on other sites
sarahwatson Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Philip027 said: What about "wanting sex with people" doesn't imply sexual attraction to you? I seriously don't get how people keep trying to split these apart. let me make this really clear. when i masturbate or have sex i do not picture anybody. I don't think of a "hot" guy or girl i saw down the street. (I honestly don't even know what hot means???) It's just about feeling good. I have never in my life looked at a person and thought damn i want to have sex with that person. To me sex just isn't about people. I have no sexual attraction towards anybody. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Quote let me make this really clear. when i masturbate or have sex i do not picture anybody. I don't think of a "hot" guy or girl i saw down the street. (I honestly don't even know what hot means???) None of that really has any bearing on one's orientation anyway. You do not necessarily have to be capable of thinking of / masturbating to some random "hot" person on the street to be sexual; that's a serious dumbing-down of sexuals' experiences and honestly just makes them look kind of shallow. Quote To me sex just isn't about people. Sex is unavoidably, indisputably about at least one other person; otherwise we call it masturbation. Link to post Share on other sites
sarahwatson Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Philip027 said: None of that really has any bearing on one's orientation anyway. Sex is unavoidably, indisputably about at least one other person; otherwise we call it masturbation. I promise I'm not trying to start a fight (sorry if my tone might seem that way) I just really want people to understand. All I can tell you is I have never felt sexual attraction to anyone ever. Thats why i identify as asexual. one can be sexually aroused by sex toys that doesn't mean you are sexually attracted to them. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Quote All I can tell you is I have never felt sexual attraction to anyone ever. And again I am asking, how is it exactly that you're defining sexual attraction? Because "wanting sex with people" is generally what it boils down to, no matter how many different sorts of forms that sort of desire can take. It is not necessarily about being able to find random people on the street "hot", nor being able to picture someone else when you masturbate, nor being able to look at someone and instantly determine that you want to sex them. Some sexual people may fall in each of these groups, but none of them are the core element that classifies all sexuals together. Link to post Share on other sites
Snao Cone Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, sarahwatson said: I promise I'm not trying to start a fight (sorry if my tone might seem that way) I just really want people to understand. All I can tell you is I have never felt sexual attraction to anyone ever. Thats why i identify as asexual. one can be sexually aroused by sex toys that doesn't mean you are sexually attracted to them. Do you feel an intrinsic desire to have sex with other people, or do you simply take care of your libido with masturbation (with or without toys)? If your lack of sexual attraction to other people means that you feel zero reason to have sex with others, then that does fit in with the other side of the asexual definition. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 The simplest, most easily-understood, and most accurate definition of asexuality: not wanting to have sex with any other person. It has nothing to do with "attraction". Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, CBC said: I get the impression that a lot of people who may actually be sexual and aromantic, or sexual and not inclined to find people aesthetically appealing, or otherwise have some issue with the various types of interpersonal connectivity usually involved in sexual desire, may be falsely identifying as asexual. But if you're ultimately still seeking out partnered sexual activity, for your own enjoyment... you're sexual. I think you're right as far as the "attraction" conundrum, and also the sex/masturbation conundrum. I wish there was some way to banish those red-herring conundra from the discussion of asexuality. Link to post Share on other sites
sarahwatson Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Well it's been fun. Guess I'm now bisexual just because you guys say I am. Sorry I didn't tick all of your special boxes to join your club. Link to post Share on other sites
Snao Cone Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, sarahwatson said: Well it's been fun. Guess I'm now bisexual just because you guys say I am. Sorry I didn't tick all of your special boxes to join your club. I understand why you feel like you're being targeted here, because this sparks a theme that has come up time and time again for those of us who have been around for a while. It's not a judgment against you, or an attempt to tell you what you are. I can at least say that I, personally, genuinely want to understand you and the experiences you're sharing more clearly. I didn't identify as asexual until a later age because I didn't fit some clean cut definition of it, so it took some time exploring the concepts around it to get a solid sense of myself. I hope that you're open to a little more conversation about the topic (though it doesn't need to be with the same people in the same thread, if this one got off to thr wrong start for you - that's totally understandable). Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Quote Sorry I didn't tick all of your special boxes to join your club. I don't really think most people here regard it as a "club". A lot of asexuals find it to be fucking lonely. But we still want it to be represented accurately. To use a similar sort of situation, most vegetarians would not appreciate someone who eats fish, or someone who only has a steak once a month, or [insert whatever other sort of limited but nevertheless still meat-consuming circumstances here] trying to call themselves a vegetarian too, because 1) that's simply not what vegetarianism is and 2) it belittles the experience of actual vegetarians. It isn't much different with most other niche/minority groups, asexuality included. I'm going to assume your lack of a response to my query on what you think sexual attraction even is indicates that you don't even have an answer. I was thinking you did, considering how certain you seemed to be about you NOT experiencing it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 4:43 AM, CBC said: I get the impression that a lot of people who may actually be sexual and aromantic, or sexual and not inclined to find people aesthetically appealing, or otherwise have some issue with the various types of interpersonal connectivity usually involved in sexual desire, may be falsely identifying as asexual I . Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 6:24 AM, CBC said: I truly don't think it necessarily means someone is "broken". What is "broken" anyway? It's kind of vague. Outside the norm, though? Absolutely. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. . Link to post Share on other sites
Comrade F&F Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Welp, I came here to see if I could learn more about the definition of asexuality. I left a lot more confused. 😂 Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 What is so confusing about "doesn't want sex"? Do you not even know if you want sex? Link to post Share on other sites
Comrade F&F Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Philip027 said: What is so confusing about "doesn't want sex"? Do you not even know if you want sex? First I have to know what 'want sex' even is. It's like the Mary in the Room. You can study a topic all you want, but will you ever know everything about it until you experience it? Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 I know many things I either want or don't want despite not necessarily knowing everything about them. Do you need to learn about all the specific types of bacteria that can grow inside a toilet bowl before knowing whether or not you'd like to drink water out of one? Didn't think it was usually that complicated tbh. (But if you can't even tell whether or not you want sex or most other things, chances are you probably don't) Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 6:49 AM, Feys&Florets said: Welp, I came here to see if I could learn more about the definition of asexuality. I left a lot more confused. 😂 . Link to post Share on other sites
Comrade F&F Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, Philip027 said: I know many things I either want or don't want despite not necessarily knowing everything about them. Do you need to learn about all the specific types of bacteria that can grow inside a toilet bowl before knowing whether or not you'd like to drink water out of one? Didn't think it was usually that complicated tbh. (But if you can't even tell whether or not you want sex or most other things, chances are you probably don't) Nah, it's not that simple. I have a very logical and curious approach to everything in life (STEM major who finds everything fascinating) Heck, I would actually be really interested to learn about all the gross bacteria floating around in that toilet bowl, just because I'm such a nerd. Disgusting, yes. But still fascinating. It doesn't help that sexuality is a branch of psychology and the human mind...good luck attaching definitions on every single naunce there is. If I tried to explain it more, I might just be hijacking this thread...I don't want to do that. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Feys&Florets said: Heck, I would actually be really interested to learn about all the gross bacteria floating around in that toilet bowl, just because I'm such a nerd. That's fine and all, but it doesn't answer my question. Chances are, you probably already know that you'd rather not drink out of a toilet bowl, even before pursuing specifics about the bacteria. That's simple. If you can't answer whether you want sex that simply, that's fair, but for most people it is simple for them to know what they do and do not want. (Whether they feel it is worthwhile to pursue the things they want, is another story.) Most sexuals know they want sex, before they've even had it, and before they know everything about it. 6 minutes ago, Feys&Florets said: good luck attaching definitions on every single naunce there is. Honestly, we're better off not even bothering with that, if tumblr is anything to go by. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 46 minutes ago, Feys&Florets said: It doesn't help that sexuality is a branch of psychology and the human mind... It may or may not be, as far as academic categorization. However, sexuality is something that is FELT by humans. As such, it seems impossible to me that by the age of 20, let's say, that any given human would not know whether they've felt a physical urge to have some sort of sexual experience with another human. I knew that I had not, by age 20, and I've never felt that urge. The absence of the urge has been quite evident, especially since everyone around me seemed to have felt the urge and was quite definite about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Comrade F&F Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 47 minutes ago, Philip027 said: If you can't answer whether you want sex that simply, that's fair, but for most people it is simple for them to know what they do and do not want. (Whether they feel it is worthwhile to pursue the things they want, is another story.) Most sexuals know they want sex, before they've even had it, and before they know everything about it. Well in that context, it's more curiosity, followed by a "Wait, that's it?" But yeah. Getting off topic. Link to post Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 I absolutely disagree with people who insist that one should try sex to know that they're not into it. (Of course, they're not in this forum, they are rather intolerant people who would only accept asexuality if a person meets a much longer list of criteria, such as being perfectly healthy, physically attractive, aromantic, sex-indifferent, having had sex...) This equals pushing people into potentially traumatic experiences. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Everyone, this is AVEN, meaning asexual visibility and education network. Part of education means informing some people they are not asexual, by AVEN's very own definition: "sexual attraction - the desire to share sexuality with others". It really does get annoying to be accused of gatekeeping when we're literally doing what the site was designed to do. And I get it. I didn't want to identify as romantic for years because I was so used to being aro, wasn't a 'textbook' romantic and used to be very anti-romance, but there comes a point when the only one you're kidding is yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Sally said: As such, it seems impossible to me that by the age of 20, let's say, that any given human would not know whether they've felt a physical urge to have some sort of sexual experience with another human. This wasn’t really my experience. I mean, I suppose it was, but it didn’t stand out to me like it did to you. I had an urge to fit in, to be liked, to have some degree of control over my relationships. Those things led me to have sex, because I thought sex was what adults in relationships do. It wasn’t until long past 20 that I learned that other people were having sex for completely different reasons and experiencing it vastly differently. To pick a relatively trivial example, it’s a bit like watching where you’re going to avoid stepping in sidewalk cracks. I do it for pragmatic reasons; I’m clumsy and afraid of falling. If I’m walking with someone else who does it, I could easily assume the same for them and think we have something in common. They, on the other hand, may be behaving the same way as I am entirely out of superstition. In this case I’ve been aware of (but not “bought into”) the superstition since childhood, so I know not to assume. With sex I wasn’t made aware of the disparate explanations until long, long into adulthood. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Quote Well in that context, it's more curiosity, followed by a "Wait, that's it?" But yeah. Getting off topic. I don't think it's off topic at all. It's specifically in line with what the topic is about. And like I pointed out above, I don't think curiosity about a subject can necessarily be equated with an intrinsic need/desire/longing/etc for it. It might develop toward something like that, but certainly not for everyone. The underwhelmed reaction after having satisfied such curiosity tends to point more toward the ace side of things. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 I ID'd as ace for a while because I am far outside the norm. But, really, I am just an outside the norm sexual (and fully admit it) cause while I dont experience aesthetic attraction much and it takes a really oddly specific scenario for me... I still desire partnered sexual experiences for my own pleasure. Which is why I dropped the label of ace once I started to desire that. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 12:25 PM, Serran said: while I dont experience aesthetic attraction much and it takes a really oddly specific scenario for me... I still desire partnered sexual experiences for my own pleasure. . Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Dreamsexual said: Sorry, is it rude to ask what? What specific scenarios you mean ? Link to post Share on other sites
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