is it possible to be asexual, aromantic and gay?

[BeakLove]

2 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

Why not? Because you defined it as a relationship identical in feelings and behavior to a romantic relationship.

 

If they say it is? To their face I'd be nice and behind their back I'd think they're annoyi f attention seekers. If you're married to someone you love "more than a friend" and engage in "sensual touch usually defined as romantic", then seriously, that's not a QPR and there's no reason to call it one. Well, there may be reasons, but none of those reasons are "factual accuracy." 

In positive terms, then, what in your opinion is a QPR? 

[Snao Cone]

5 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

A lot of people in romantic relationships don't gush or think of their significant other as "The One" either though.

Fair point, not all of those things will apply to all romantic relationships. I would say, though, that it's a pretty clear distinction away from a QPR if that's how people perceive their relationship (at least in practical adult terms - I know a lot of younger people, especially girls, might see BFFs like predestined soulmates).

 

 

8 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

Ultimately, "romantic relationship" really just means "acknowledged couple relationship"

Yeah, but I get the impression that some folks want their couple relationship acknowledged to be a QPR, even when the people outside of the relationship who are acknowledging it will not be able to tell the difference.

 

 

9 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

just how far can a relationship be stretched into couple territory, before it's legitimate for other people to simply call it a couple?

This is a very important question, for sure. With the kinds of relationships you mentioned following up to this question, I absolutely wonder the same thing. I know there are examples of people raising kids together in a non-couple way (i.e. coparenting), but that's more distinct from romantic couples having children together than a QPR having kids would be. I can maybe think of one example in my life, with my friend's parents who divorced then moved back in together after one of them transitioned into a woman, but I think the main reason they got back together after they each dealt with personal issues and resolved most of their differences was because they had to jointly care for an adult son with high level autism.

 

 

13 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

I accept there are relationships which are awkward to neatly classify so in that regard I can see why people would want another category. But for it to be useful in a discussion, it has to be clearly defined, and generally speaking it is defined by the absence of something ("romantic attraction") or by a relative quality of "moreness" (better than average friendship). This makes it hard to get a handle on it.

Yup yup yup. (Sorry, I'm a little drunk still. )

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, BeakLove said:

In positive terms, then, what in your opinion is a QPR? 

A formal agreement to try to live one's life in concert with one's friend. A formal agreement that you can rely on each other, count on each other, work together, trust each other, in furtherance of a successful and happy life. Two friends who agree to be responsible and reliable for each other. Period. Of course that's going to create strong bonds... familial, I would think, rather than romantic. 

[Philip027]

1 hour ago, Skullery Maid said:

Got a friend who refuses to say I love you. He's on the autism spectrum which I think tends to reduce purely conceptual romantic expressions... He doesn't think "I love you" means anything so he refuses to say it.

If you ask me though, a steadfast refusal to say something kinda DOES imply that you feel it's important, whether it's important in the sense of "I vehemently disagree with this concept and therefore refuse to personally acknowledge it by mentioning it" or "I take this matter very seriously and therefore will only say it once I am 300% sure of its validity" or what have you.

 

It's the same reason why people used to be visibly shocked whenever I employed a curse word.  I rarely did it, so they knew that when I did, I must really have been pissed about whatever it was I was talking about.  (I tend to be a lot more liberal with curses when I'm writing though...)

[kelico]

I think Snao described a QPR well (a page or so ago lol). I also think that I've never seen the definition of QPR's analyzed quite as much as in this thread!  My definition of a QPR is a deep platonic bond/partnership with someone that you care about a lot (you may use the word love...I don't see it as inherently romantic). The rest involves individual preferences. *shrugs* 

 

As someone in a QPR with a fellow avenite, I can tell you that they are definitely real and, I was able to tell the difference between this strong platonic bond with her and any close friendship I've had with anyone in my life. I can also tell you that I am romance-repulsed and felt horrendously uncomfortable when friends would confess romantic feelings towards me, even if we were close friends for years...but asking opti to be in a QPR seemed so right (it was something I mulled over for weeks, and apparently she was doing the same!). My analysis of my feelings: It wasn't simply a friendship, she didn't feel like a sister (which is how I feel about a couple very close friends), and I knew it wasn't a crush/romantic. It felt different than all of that, and the best term to describe it was, indeed, queerplatonic. We say, "I love you," but I'm the type to say I love you to my friends. Different types of love out there, not just romantic. : )

 

Perhaps because we're long-distance, I can't fully address the "sensual" part of it all. Would I want to hug? Yes. Would I want to hold hands? Yes. Cuddle? Why not! Can friends, romantic partners, and family do those things? Sure! So no difference there really. Being in person, I'd perhaps be able to gauge the sensual aspect more, but as of right now, I can tell you that I would want to be close to her in those ways, yet none of it screams "romantic" to me.

 

I don't think I'm helping the situation whatsoever...I just wanted to tell my personal story on this.  Oh, and honestly, I see no reason why someone can't be an oriented-aro, if it helps them to describe their feelings, or if it makes it easier for them to explain things to people that are like "wtf is a qpr or aromantic or asexual." *pops out*

[iyote]

46 minutes ago, Firefly8 said:

I'm guessing you didn't read my first post as an example? I don't have the desire, but am open to relationships, all neutral basically. Maybe I'm wrong, but for right now this is the best I understand myself and best way I can see to specifically and succinctly label myself online. In person I would explain in complete sentences rather than use labels.

Yeah, I was mostly responding to the creator of this thread.  I'll be honest, I didn't have time to read every post.  

But yeah, I'm not even open to relationships, so I still don't get it.  But I don't understand sexuality either, so don't take my denseness personally.  It's just something I don't experience.  

And I've got no problem with the labels.  I'll admit I was completely like "this can't be a thing, can it?" when I first saw "oriented aroace", but hey, if it's a term that fits you, then it fits you.  I learn something new every day.  

[BeakLove]

1 hour ago, Skullery Maid said:

A formal agreement to try to live one's life in concert with one's friend. A formal agreement that you can rely on each other, count on each other, work together, trust each other, in furtherance of a successful and happy life. Two friends who agree to be responsible and reliable for each other. Period.

The only formal agreement of this kind that is socially recognised is marriage, and it basically encodes exactly what you describe above.

 

A quick Google for some wedding ceremony scripts:

 

Quote

... the relationship you enter into today must be grounded in the strength of your love and the power of your faith in each other. To make your relationship succeed it will take unending love. It will take trust, to know in your hearts that you truly want what is best for one another and to learn and grow together. It will take faith, to go forward together without knowing what the future holds. If you both come freely, and understand the responsibility and work involved to make your relationship thrive, and are committed to not only each other but your family, please take each other by the hands and reply 'we do.'

Of course, you can be committed to each other without marrying one another. But certainly there's no formal agreement I can think of other than that. The specific mechanics of commitment aside, this is where QPR, for me, runs up against its other difficulty. How do you define the conceptual boundary between ordinary friendship and QPR? Many of the things you said I would regard as essential to any worthwhile friendship (and indeed relationship): being reliable, counting on each other, working together, trusting each other and trying to make each other happy. 

 

The main implication of your post is that commitment defines the difference. Even if we take this generally and ignore the "formal agreement" part for argument's sake, as I said above I would argue that "being there" for someone is a function of any good friend. Well then, is it a commitment specifically to living life in sync with one another, basing life decisions around each other? This can still be accommodated within (close) friendship, in my opinion, although depending on how that plays it out it may be straying closer to the couple territory. Once it gets closer than that, however, taking "responsibility" for each other, I feel we are into the realm of a possible relationship. 

 

Or tl:dr:  We need clearly defined conceptual boundaries between a good QPR relationship and (i) a good friendship, (ii) a good romance. I think that would hep with understanding it. 

[Snao Cone]

Sort of off topic, but sometimes I wonder how intense some people's concept of "friend" is. Am I allowed to call someone a friend, or even a close friend, if I don't want to give them keys to my house or lend them my credit card? Does it make me a bad friend to not offer to wash someone else's dishes at least half the time? I feel like I can go several weeks without seeing the same friend, so are they really my friend, or am I just a bad person?

[Aimeendfire]

56 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Sort of off topic, but sometimes I wonder how intense some people's concept of "friend" is. Am I allowed to call someone a friend, or even a close friend, if I don't want to give them keys to my house or lend them my credit card? Does it make me a bad friend to not offer to wash someone else's dishes at least half the time? I feel like I can go several weeks without seeing the same friend, so are they really my friend, or am I just a bad person?

Aren’t the true real friends the ones we don’t see often and then we see each other and it’s like no time has passed.

I also go weeks and even months without seeing my BFF but that’s mostly because I’m an introvert and going out too often is such a bother even if I know I will have a good time.

once me and my BFF went out to dinner and we both made a comment saying that we didn’t really want to go out and see each other but we were glad we did. Does that make us bad friends or perfect friends

[Finn.]

I see labels as tools serving a purpose for me. So I do come out as bisexual, as not dating men, because if I were to ever find a partner they wouldn't be a man and I don't want anyone to play matchmaker with me and a man. 

 

Okay I have many thoughts on this QPR stuff. 

I am in a quite "intense" friendship, we've been friends since we were 8, we always spent tons of time with each other, we moved in together at 21, and now we are living in our 2nd apartment at 27. We are each other's plus ones, we make life decisions together (e.g. moving to this particular city and getting jobs close enough of each other so we could live together), we build our life on the perspective that we will probably grow old together in a shared household. We call each other family and our families consider us a part of them.

We are not in a QPR because my friend isn't aromantic and might fall in love which might change their relationship priorities. We so far have chosen to not make this a QPR. 

Maybe at some point we will decide otherwise, or I will find another (probably female) person to build a QPR. I don't want people in my life to be like "wait, you're gay?". And I am assigned female so all the gay rights affect me, fostering kids?, marriage?, would look quite gay to people and be quite gay on paper.

 

Also I am quoi and don't really get the distinction between all the kinds of attraction. I know I prefer certain bodies over others, I don't know whether that's sexual or aesthetic as I'm not going to touch anyone anyways. Ultimately my actions and aversions make me feel aroace, but with the perspective how my life looks and might develop, it certainly portrays "gay" to most everyone. And I'm not going to come out at work as asexual, honestly, and do the whole discourse shebang.

[Madelaine]

On 5/17/2019 at 7:43 PM, MichaelTannock said:

Yes. In this case, you'd be a Homoplatonic Aromantic Asexual.

 

P.S. I've removed that giant blank space under your comment.

Im sorry. im very new here and im trying to understand.  how is it possible to be aromantic and asexual and have any orientation? It looks like being aromantic and asexual means NO orientation at all because such person isnt interested in any close relations. And if such person realizes that he is gay, what criteria this person uses? If its about friendship - then it dont make him gay, cause a lot of men prefer male friends (same for woman) and it dont make them gay.  So what criteria can such person use to identify himself as gay if this criteria is not about sex and romantic? I think if someone identify himself as gay, then it means some sexual/romantic interest to ppl with the same gender. Am i wrong?

[NickyTannock]

9 minutes ago, Madelaine said:

Im sorry. im very new here and im trying to understand.  how is it possible to be aromantic and asexual and have any orientation? It looks like being aromantic and asexual means NO orientation at all because such person isnt interested in any close relations. And if such person realizes that he is gay, what criteria this person uses? If its about friendship - then it dont make him gay, cause a lot of men prefer male friends (same for woman) and it dont make them gay.  So what criteria can such person use to identify himself as gay if this criteria is not about sex and romantic? I think if someone identify himself as gay, then it means some sexual/romantic interest to ppl with the same gender. Am i wrong?

There are other types of attraction besides Romantic Attraction and Sexual Attraction, meaning there are other types of orientation besides a Romantic Orientation or a Sexual Orientation.

[Madelaine]

Just now, MichaelTannock said:

There are other types of attraction besides Romantic Attraction and Sexual Attraction, meaning there are other types of orientation besides a Romantic Orientation or a Sexual Orientation.

 what kind of attractions they are can you tell please?  

[NickyTannock]

Just now, Madelaine said:

 what kind of attractions they are can you tell please?  

There's Sexual Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have sex with someone.
There's Romantic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have a romantic relationship with someone.
There's Sensual Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have intimate non-sexual physical contact with someone, like kissing or cuddling.
There's Aesthetic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to appreciate someone's aesthetic beauty.
There's Platonic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have a deep friendship with someone.

There are a lot more, but those are the main types.

[Madelaine]

5 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

There's Sexual Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have sex with someone.
There's Romantic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have a romantic relationship with someone.
There's Sensual Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have intimate non-sexual physical contact with someone, like kissing or cuddling.
There's Aesthetic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to appreciate someone's aesthetic beauty.
There's Platonic Attraction, which I define as leading to the desire to have a deep friendship with someone.

There are a lot more, but those are the main types.

Ok i got it. Thank you, i considred sexual and sensual as the same.

[chairdesklamp]

What I call a romantic relationship (homoromantic), I'm not quite sure where it actually sits on things. (Not withstanding that while I would want to want sex, I've never enjoyed any sex and it would just remove that worry if he never wanted sex, and most people--sexuals--define romantic attraction as being intertwined with sexual, but for us, not so much) 

 

I love my close friends, too. It's really weird to me how you're supposed to "love only your partner." Do you have to stop loving your family, too? Do you not get to love your kids? 

 

I really can't imagine only wanting to be friends with one gender, but I mean, naming things is just a way of getting a concept from one mind to another. If you feel it's important, only you can tell you how to identify. 

[a_weird_writer]

Hey there! I am aro ace and identify as gay also. Because I am a woman who is interested in women. It's true that I am interested in women queerplatonically, but you know  what? The way in which we are interested in certain people is nobody else's business. We are not appropriating the word because qprs are just as real and valid as any other relationship. 

 

Hope you have a great day 

[a_weird_writer]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:22 PM, Madelaine said:

Im sorry. im very new here and im trying to understand.  how is it possible to be aromantic and asexual and have any orientation? It looks like being aromantic and asexual means NO orientation at all because such person isnt interested in any close relations. And if such person realizes that he is gay, what criteria this person uses? If its about friendship - then it dont make him gay, cause a lot of men prefer male friends (same for woman) and it dont make them gay.  So what criteria can such person use to identify himself as gay if this criteria is not about sex and romantic? I think if someone identify himself as gay, then it means some sexual/romantic interest to ppl with the same gender. Am i wrong?

Hey there! Am happy to explain. You can be aromantic and asexual and have an orientation that refers to who you want to be in a QPR with. A QPR (Queerplatonic relationship) is a relationship that goes beyond friendship but it is not romantic. The people in this relationship are committed to each other. They may move in together, start a family, go out on dates, but there is no romantic feeling. Some people refer to this as having a platonic life partner. 

The orientation of an aro ace person describes who they want to have a qpr with. 

I know it's a lot to get your head around and a lot to take in  but if you go in with an open mind you can learn a lot. Kaihugstrees has some videos on you tube that really helped me to understand the whole thing. Now I am in a poly qpr!!

[Firefly8]

3 hours ago, a_weird_writer said:

Hey there! Am happy to explain. You can be aromantic and asexual and have an orientation that refers to who you want to be in a QPR with. A QPR (Queerplatonic relationship) is a relationship that goes beyond friendship but it is not romantic. The people in this relationship are committed to each other. They may move in together, start a family, go out on dates, but there is no romantic feeling. Some people refer to this as having a platonic life partner. 

The orientation of an aro ace person describes who they want to have a qpr with. 

I know it's a lot to get your head around and a lot to take in  but if you go in with an open mind you can learn a lot. Kaihugstrees has some videos on you tube that really helped me to understand the whole thing. Now I am in a poly qpr!!

This isn't ALL oriented aroaces. Most maybe, but I, for example, would be ok with other types of relationships other than QPR as well. That doesn't mean I think about or actively desire them. I'm neutral; I would be okay with it if someone else desired that. 

[NickyTannock]

@a_weird_writer Welcome to AVEN!

 

I think I find it easy to accept because I don't even have Platonic Attraction, so for me, it's in the same category as Romantic Attraction and Sexual Attraction.
If I did experience one of the other types of attraction, I might value it higher than the others.

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake, and here's a Books Cake,

[Janus the Fox]

Thread Locked as it’s nearly a year old and nothing new added to the threads revival 
 

Janus DarkFox

Questions about Asexuality, Asexual Musings and Rantings & Open Mic Moderator